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Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Title:What's all this fuss about 'sax and violins'?
Notice:Archived V1 - Current conference is QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS
Moderator:ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI
Created:Fri May 09 1986
Last Modified:Wed Jun 26 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1327
Total number of notes:28298

677.0. "Old Friend-Ex Friend" by USEM::DONOVAN () Wed Feb 08 1989 12:53

    I am in a very uncomfortable situation with an ex-friend. This guy
    who was supposedly my best friend let me dowm when I needed him
    most. Also he has interfered with my marriage in an indirect way
    by constantly calling my husband and asking him to go out when my
    husband should be spending more time with me and the kids. I know
    my husband has his own mind but this guy calls and nags every night.
    I loved him, trusted him and even had him be godfather to my first
    born. Well, to make this part of a long story short, I told my hus-
    band about a momentary indescretion where my friend made a verbal
    pass at me. Of course I refused. He is terribly homely.(no stretch
    of the imagination) He did it out of lonelyness and I forgave him
    but one night out of anger I told my husband. He confronted our
    friend and he denied it. My husband forgave this guy but it left
    a scar on our relationship that will last forever.
    
    Question:
    
    Since this guy still comes to my house on occasion should I try
    to be civil? Should I ignore the issue or directly confront him
    or what? I don't really blame him. He's such a lonely and unpopular
    guy. It's been 2 years now. (sounds like N.E.Telephone Commercial)
    
    Question:
    
    Has anyone been in a similar situation?
    
    Kate
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677.1Sure...ELESYS::JASNIEWSKIjust a revolutionary with a pseudonymWed Feb 08 1989 13:4317
    
    	Seems to me that "if it has left a scar on your relationship
    (with him) that will last forever" you have not forgiven him, you
    havent even expressed the anger you hold toward him yet. Expression
    of any angry feelings is paramount and a pre-requisite to forgiveness.
    If you're still angry with him, you have not, by any means, "forgiven
    him".
    
    	I cant understand why action resulting from basic human needs
    gets people so angry! Certainly a redirection of the action is in
    order if it's "inappropriate", such as making a pass as someone
    who they know damn well is "taken". But an angry response shows no
    such understanding and probably has nothing to do with the action
    itself, it was simply "touched off by it" from it's "hiding place". 
    Think about it. 
    
    	Joe Jas
677.2HANDY::MALLETTBarking Spider IndustriesWed Feb 08 1989 14:1144
    What options do you see, Kate, and, more importantly, how do
    *you* feel about them?  I can't say what you should or shouldn't
    do; I've been in analogous situations, but what I did and didn't
    do was based on how *I* felt about things and how I wanted them
    to turn out.  I'd be a bit wary of declarations that begin
    "Well, Kate, I was in an identical situation and you should. . ."
    I think the flaw in that suggestion is that the speaker *wasn't* in
    an identical situation. . .(s)he wasn't you (nor living your life).
    
    Maybe one good question to ask yourself, and talk over with your 
    husband is, "How would I like to see our relationships in the
    future?"  Offhand, it sounds to me as if part of your problem
    here is that the situation feels unresolved; it sounds like you'd
    like to do something but aren't sure which is the "right" something.
    Talking it over might help clarify the issues and the alternative 
    resolutions.  
    
    Then too, I have a hunch that a few people in this conference can
    offer some ideas and perspectives from the outside that might be 
    tough to see from the inside; these also may be good fodder for 
    thought and conversation with your husband.
    
    From my own similar experiences, I'd offer this thought:  your friend
    does indeed sound lonely, but that's something over which you all
    have very little control.  What you *can* do (again, if it feels
    like a fit to you) is let him know clearly what "friendship" means 
    to you - in the game model, you can let him know what your rules are
    and what the consequences are when those rules are broken.
    
    From your note, it sounds as if ignoring him isn't comfortable for
    you (a least-desired outcome?); to ignore him is to leave the
    wound unattended and it cannot close, heal, and, in time, have
    the scar tissue become smaller.  This suggests that some sort
    of discussion with him would be a better direction, but just what
    the exact path is ("civil", "heated", direct, indirect, alone, 
    with your husband) is something I cannot know for you.  
    
    Now, just to be self-contradictory, there is one thing I think
    you "should" do. . .I think you should trust yourself - have
    faith that you'll reach the right course of action.  You care
    enough about this to seek guidance and the experiences of others
    in finding your "right" answer.  
    
    Steve
677.3Some rambling thoughtsBUSY::KLEINBERGERDisic Vita Lux HominumWed Feb 08 1989 14:4899
677.4do your part and nothing moreYODA::BARANSKIChild-like, but not Child-ishWed Feb 08 1989 15:0217
What should you do?

Seperate in your mind the different relationships involved:  Your relationship
with your friend, Your relationship with your husband, your husband's
relationship with your friend. 

Tell your friend how you feel about having a pass made at you (and the other
hidden agenda that you seem to have), and how you would want your relationship
to be.  Either he will agree, or one or the other of you will stop seeing each
other. 

Tell your husband how you feel about him going out all the time.  Then it is his
responsibility to react how he feels about the situation.  He might ignore you
and continue to go out, he might stop going out, he might talk about it.  The
choice is up to him.

Jim. 
677.5Reply too GailUSEM::DONOVANWed Feb 08 1989 16:1324
    RE:.3
    
    Gail, The man is homely and unpopular. This is not judgement. It
    is fact. It helps explain his feeling of low self-esteem. I am sor-
    ry if you are angry. Excuuuuse me.
                          
    The man let me down when I needed him the most. Not by the verbal
    pass. A way in which I would never get into in a notesfile. 
    
    I don't want to be friends with this man. I don't want to hurt him
    either. As for my husband and myself, that's a different story.
    My husband has the free will to do as he pleases. But, Gail, would
    wou appreciate your best friend leading him down that path. For
    example if your husband was an alcoholic wouldn't it hurt to see
    your friend dangle beer cans in his face.
                                
    I think I will do what is stated in reply .4. Say how I feel and
    what I expect with my husband there. Having someone come to my
    house twice weekly for two years has made me feel out of touch in
    my own home. 
    
    Thanks,
    Kate
    
677.7VALKYR::RUSTWed Feb 08 1989 20:1419
    Re the "homely" comment: _My_ first reaction on reading it was that the
    author of .0 was stating a reason why she did not accept his pass. In
    that sense, it would be rather dubious thing to say, implying that if
    he'd been better-looking she might have taken him up on it.
    
    If, however, she was *not* describing his appearance by way of
    justifying her refusal, but instead was mentioning it as a possible
    explanation for why he might be lonely enough to proposition a friend's
    wife, it doesn't seem quite so crude. (Whether he really *is* "homely
    and unpopular" shouldn't be under discussion, I think, and isn't
    relevant to the problem. The way the author of .0 percieves him is much
    more relevant, and since she's met him and we haven't it seems a bit
    rough to tell her she's being rude and unfair...)
    
    As for the whole situation, I think the first couple of replies were
    pretty sound advice. Sounds like more hostility here than one
    provocative remark should generate...
    
    -b
677.8Talk it out with everyone involved....MCIS2::AKINSI C your Schwartz is as big as mine!Thu Feb 09 1989 05:483
    I can't believe it I agree with Jim.....8-)
    
    Bill