Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    re.1
    i certainly undderstand why you would jump to the assumption that
    i'm either having a bad day or that i'm angry/hostile to my manager...
    
    but, in my case, neither is true (or was true)
    
    i get along quite well with both of my current managers and my working
    days are typically neither bad or excellent....somewhere in the
    middle...i don't take the job or the attitudes of the people/managers
    as seriously as they take themselves...
    
    however, i have friends who relate stories about their managers...
    and i've observed the actions of managers i've had in the past...
    
    and i was wondering (.0) if any people had any observations or
    opinions as to just how sensitive/insensitive noters think a
    person has to be in order to be a manager...
    
    though i thank you for being sorry that you thought i was having
    a bad day....
    
    rik

    
    re: .3
    well said...
    but i, personally, don't consider it a "higher level"....
    i have problem with the word "higher"...it denotes...more
    important or more valuable or...more...something...
    
    i think it is a "different" level of sensitivity but not
    necessarily "higher".
    
    just my thought...

    also, i'm not sure most managers are looking for the "best return
    for the whole group" as much as the "best return for the company"
    which could be the same thing but isn't always....
    rik

    
    and therein lies our difference...
    i view managers as co workers!
    not as "parents" or "leaders" or "the boss" or...any of those
    things...
    
    and i believe that most people (especially managers) view
    managers as "parents, bosses, leaders," etc...
    
    in fact, i view my children as individual independant humans who
    i am currently financially and emotionally responsible for and to.
    my intent/object is to help them become totally independant, both
    financially and emotionally and, hopefully, to have them view
    me NOT as their parent but, rather, as a co-human independant
    of them.
    
    i do not think of myself as "the head of the household"...
    rik
    

    
    re:7
    steve...."is there any point to this?"
    As much point as many topics in notes
    Just because we dont' see or understand the point doesn't mean 
    there isn't one.
    And, my friend, there is probably more avenues to the topic
    than the one you and i seem to be traversing. Avenues with
    different and varied points.

I get the impression that you have centered on one aspect of .0
    and are following that aspect to...it's point...
    
    I was rather hoping that we could suggest many avenues of
    .0 to see the many points...
    
    1. many managers are non-people people. they believe their
    role is for the company. period. "we're here to make money
    and keep the business successful. everybody is expendable"
    
    2. some managers are 50/50 managers "the people are just
    as important as the business. we need to maintain the
    success of both"
    
    3. rarely do we find managers that are far more concerned
    with the business than with the people. which makes sense
    because you can certainly destroy the business by over
    compensating the employees, financially or emotionally.
    
    4. most managers, in dec, upon becoming managers, start attending
    seminars and facilitations that teach them the proper methods
    of duping, coercing, managing, motivating...etc...which usually
    instills what i consider to be an unrealistic image of
    themselves, the company and the employees....
    
    5. most people who want to be managers in the first place
    are the type of people who LIKE power! who like giving orders
    and who enjoy following the orders of their superiors regardless
    of logic and or morality/ethics. This type of manager tends
    to promote other people like her/him which perpetuates the
    lack of moral/ethical reasoning in management and widens (or
    strengthens) the gap between employees and managers.
   
    these are just some of the avenues that could be explored
    in this topic....
    
    rik who-doesn't-want-to-be-a-manager-or-a-parent-and-who-
    doesn't-think-either-is-easy-but-also-doesn't-think-either-
    is-as-important-as-most-people-seem-to-think.
    

    
    	Fascinating discussion.   Particularly for me since I've been
        in my first management job for over a year now.
    
    	I must admit that I had some real reservations about becoming
        a manager and the issue of living with myself.  I've also seen
    	some (though certainly a minority) managers do things that to
    	me bordered on (and in some cases crossed the line) being
        unethical.
    
        For me it's a growing process--- learning that you can still
        be human, but that being human doesn't necessarily mean being
        a milktoast.  I'm pretty easygoing most of the time, but if
        we are running behind or I perceive something isn't running
        smoothly, I do put my foot down.  I like to give people freedom
        and flexibility, but not without some rope to pull them back
        in if things get out of hand.  When I push back, I can and do
        step on some toes.  Wherever there's conflict, this is bound
        to happen.
    
        I think the only "desensitization" I've gone through (and am
        still going through) is to balance the business needs with
        people's personal needs.  I certainly want people to be happy,
        but the reality is that the balance can't always be achieved.
        Accepting this reality is perhaps a piece of the "desensitization"
        referred to.
                     
        I don't get into this notes file very often, but this topic
        caught my eye since I am now "one of them".
    
    	Larry
    
    

    The Red Sox have had two manager's this year.
    
    One knew how to utilize the skills of the team members, motivate
    and strategize.
    
    One was a nice guy.
    
    

    
    re.13
    correct..!
    those are just SOME of the *possible* viewpoints....
    personally i think that those, and others, all have validity...
    
    there are all kinds of managers....
    just like people...:-)
    my intent was for us to discuss the different types of managers
    that exist, why they exist, the ones we like best...etc...
    and that, now, seems to be happening...
    
    so i'm happy...
    :-)
    rik

    Re: .14
    
    >-< I'm not sure there are many *facts* at all...just possibilities >-
    
    I'm quite sure that there are many facts -- many different facts,
    but facts nonetheless.