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Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Title:What's all this fuss about 'sax and violins'?
Notice:Archived V1 - Current conference is QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS
Moderator:ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI
Created:Fri May 09 1986
Last Modified:Wed Jun 26 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1327
Total number of notes:28298

588.0. "Tell me what happened" by QUARK::HR_MODERATOR () Mon Sep 26 1988 19:27

The following topic has been contributed by a member of our community who
wishes to remain anonymous.  If you wish to contact the author by mail, please
send your message to QUARK::HR_MODERATOR, specifying the relevant note number.

				




I have been reading this file for awhile and have enjoyed it very much.  I 
have learned alot from the many interesting notes.  And have gotten answers to 
questions I have had.  But I guess I didn't learn enough.

I want this to sound general, but I think its going to be hard, once I start,
to keep it that way.  But right now I'm very very confused, and maybe with all 
of you helping, I CAN get some answers.  So my thanks to you who try.  Maybe a 
few of the guys out there and try to explain some of it to me.  And maybe the 
women have been there, and tell me what they did.  

A few months ago I met a guy.  He is older, and divorced.  So am I.  We got 
along great.  He said all the right things, did all the right things.  We 
talked about everything, and made me feel he was interested.  We went to see 
his home, he called everyday to tell me what was going on, where he was.  We 
went to nice places for dinner, went to movies, enjoyed just talking and 
laughing.  OR so I thought.  But in the back of my mind, I always felt 
something just wasn't right.  That he was holding something back.  If you knew 
his background, you would understand why.  We both have the same background. 
So that was another thing to talk about.   But this was a different feeling.

We could talk about alot of things, but I still felt something was missing. 
He never asked me anything, it was, if I wanted to tell him I would.  He 
didn't care.  He said I was the only one he was seeing, didn't care if I saw 
other people.  He isn't around much because of business.  Said we had alot in 
common.  Enjoyed being with me, etc, etc.  You know all the good stuff.  

Well, heres where things get confusing.   About a week ago, things were great. 
Then nothing.  When I called his home a woman answered, told me nobody lived 
there by that name.  I was also told I had the wrong number.  I just laughed 
because I really thought it was funny (At First).  The next thing I know his 
number is unlisted, tho I still have it.  I have sent him afew messages, just
asking him to let me know what the h*ll was going on.  Thats all I want to 
know.  Nothing.....  He hasn't answered one of them.  I said in the message 
that if he was involved etc.  That was fine, but just let me know.  

I never said I cared if he dated anyone else.  There was no commitment.  I'm 
not ready for one.  He said he wasn't either.  Maybe he was right in more ways 
then one.  Anyway.  I'm very very confused.   I just can't understand where 
this came from, what is going on.  I have talked to friends, and they have 
come up with all different ideas, Guilt, that he started to care, that he's 
married, that he is in trouble, etc.  I came up with as many as they did to 
say that they're wrong.   Some even said I would hear from him again.  That I 
doubt.  Not when he isn't saying one word one way or the other....  

What is more confusing, is he acted like he enjoyed being with me as well.  
And yes, I'm hurt.  I really thought he was better then that.  Guess I was 
wrong again.

All I need is to figure out what/why any of this happen.....

I should tell you, that I don't really trust many guys since my divorce.  
So I'm very careful of whats said to me, and how its said.  I take everything 
at face value.  And wait and see what happens.  Its more along the lines of 
*Don't tell me, Show me*  
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
588.2QUARK::LIONELAd AstraMon Sep 26 1988 19:443
    Note 565 would appear to tell a similar story.
    
    				Steve
588.3question for .0TPVAX1::WHITEWAYTue Sep 27 1988 11:2010
    re.0
    
    	Can I ask two questions before attempting to say anything here?
    How long were you seeing this person ?
    How long since your divorse?
    
    ps. Hang in there. 
    
    curt
    
588.4Reply from author of base noteQUARK::HR_MODERATORTue Sep 27 1988 13:0227
    The following reply is from the anonymous author of the base note.
    
    
    

re: Background.   He came from a very strong Italian background.  Very well 
ordered.  His Grandfather ruled the family.  And he was very close to him.
OR So He Said.

re: My Divorce.  I have been divorced, 4 years, separated for almost 5.  So I
have been own my own for about 9 years.  So it isn't that I have dated, and it
isn't that I shouldn't have known better.  I did, but I started to trust again
and I feel I should have known better.  

re: Time.  Though we weren't together long, I would say it was about 2 months.
But that was in constant touch with each other.  And seeing each other 2-3
times a week.  

Though I'm not feeling really down about this, and I know life goes on.  I'm 
still confused, more so because all I want from him is an answer.  As Wendy
said in her note, why can't someone be honest.  It only takes a minute's time
and could save a lot of hard feelings and hurt.  

re: 1 and 3,  I don't know if this answers your questions, I hope so.  It's
hard to answer it all.  

Thanks
588.5Italian men...VIDEO::STEFANITue Sep 27 1988 14:0264
    re .4:
    
    I can't speak from experience, since I've never been married or
    had a long-term relationship with someone.  However, here are some
    of my views:
    
    As an Italian with parents from the "Old Country", I may have some
    insights on the "Italian Male".  I don't wish to generalize, especially
    since I feel that I don't fit this picture, but Italian males are
    generally brought up to be dependant on their mothers, and later dependant
    on his wife.  Generally, "woman's" work such as cleaning and cooking
    are not taught to the men and for that and many other reasons they
    depend on the women in their life.  Many times, they are arrogant,
    thick-headed (ie stubborn as a mule), and insultive.  They will
    just "blow up" and start yelling without thinking things through.
    
    Yes, the Italian male is the head of the family, or "capofamiligia",
    the wife IS supposed to stay at home and take care of the kids and
    is NOT supposed to work outside the home.  Women are "allowed" to
    do "women" things but they are always subject to their husband's
    scrutiny.  Though these ideas and personalities "worked" 40 years
    ago (women were taught by their mother's that this WAS correct),
    other than in a few places in Italy today, these ideas are sort of extinct.
    Not exactly extinct though, since I'm 20, and both of my parents (immigrants
    to this country) were brought up under these family "guidelines".
    
    On a plus side, Italian men are very family oriented, and care
    very much for children and keeping a close relationship with their
    aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc.  They are also good
    providers at least financially if not emotionally.
    
    Today, the Italian male is a much watered down product of his earlier
    counterpart.  My dad conceded (semi-reluctantly) to having my mother
    work (she babysat many neighborhood kids).  Both my parents understand
    that their kids may NOT necessarily marry Catholic Italians (something
    unheard of in "their" time).  Also, education is very important
    not just for the man (still the theoretical provider), but also
    for their daughters who in the 1980's and 90's CANNOT depend on
    a man to take care of them.  Something I also see changing is that
    most women today (Italian women included) are marrying later.  My
    mother married at 21, and most of my aunts and relatives married
    young.  A woman back then needed to know how to sew, cook, clean,
    take care of babies, etc. since her only direction in life was to
    become a wife.  Today, a woman has to be able to provide for herself,
    and today she is doing it.
    
    In reference to your situation, you had the misfortune of being
    involved with a very immature man who probably had a fantastic ego.
    My guess is that he blames you for the separation, and it is most
    probable that his family and relatives do too.  He probably never
    talked to you about why the two of you were drifting apart, and
    probably during the marriage he must have had difficulty showing
    his emotions, his dreams, his fears, anything that in his mindset
    would have shown weakness.  In his defense though, you have to keep
    in his mind that he was probably taught by his family and friends
    that his actions were correct.  I know that I've tried very hard
    to put my parent's teachings into today's perspective, but it is
    difficult.  I am glad that experience is such a fantastic teacher
    and that most women today don't go for the dominating male attitude
    and will tell you so.  Considering yourself lucky for getting out
    of a bad situation.  You will love again, and you'll find that special
    guy.  Good luck.
    
         Larry Stefani 
588.6Only the phantom knows...EDUC8::JAMESTue Sep 27 1988 15:3014
    It's easy to speculate on why things happen, and there's a really
    good chance that you will never know why. Pick your favorite reason
    from cold feet to cold opportunist - even asking for a reason right
    now could be interpreted as looking for a response, a commitment
    when he just is not ready to do that.
    
    I agree with Larry (back one). You are lucky to get out of this
    relationship now, when the stakes are relatively low. 
    
    Hang in there, don't blame yourself for trusting. There's no other
    way to do it <sigh>
    
    Estelle
    
588.7Secret agent man...TUNER::FLISmissed meTue Sep 27 1988 19:5122
    RE: .0
    
    
    > When I called his home a woman answered, told me nobody lived
    > there by that name.
    
    Hate to sound hokey, but this *is* possible.  He could be involved
    in some criminal activity or, more likely, some federal Gov. work.
    
    If he was working undercover, his involvement with you may have
    been unexpected.  He probably *really* fell in love with
    you and was then pulled from the area.  He would not be able to
    tell you anything (and he wouldn't either), and their would be no
    trace of him if their wasn't supposed to be.  He would also not
    be able to contact you in the near future (even if he left the fed job).
    
    I know this sounds weird, but this *is* a realistic possibility,
    beleive it or not!
    
    jim
    
                                               
588.8Reply from base note authorQUARK::HR_MODERATORWed Sep 28 1988 13:1256
    The following reply is from the anonymous author of the base note.
    
    

    Its Me again...

    I'm sorry that this message is/might upset some people...though I don't
    know why it should, maybe for some of us, we have all been there at one
    time or another, I can't say.  All I CAN say, is I wish you the
    friends, and understanding that I have found...  My thanks to you all,
    and I will answer the mail messages as soon as I can.  Thanks for being
    there for me.... 

    anyway.................. 

    re:05....     Italian men.  What you're saying is right, and I know.
    Being married to one for almost 25 years, and being Italian myself, Yes
    you're right!!  I remember my ex telling me I would never work, and
    having a doctor tell him that if he cared about me, he would let me go,
    and let me be me.  He used to show up with the kids all there.  And have
    them stand there an tell them Daddy couldn't taken care of mommy...
    Fine....  That was his way... 


    This, no way...  This guy did  that with his wife, and I'm willing to
    bet  he is still married, maybe the second, and to a younger woman...
    I'm not saying I'm right... I'm saying it could happen.
    I was raised in an Italian home.  MY MOTHER ruled the house, until dad
    said that's enough... 

    

    re: 06....  I don't know if you're right or wrong, I don't know what was
    going on,I still don't...  I probably never  will know the TRUTH... BUT
    YET........ 

    re: 07....Please believe me when I say I'm not putting you down.  I
    can't and have no right...  But my God, you really would make a great
    writer of fantasy.. That is what you called it, isn't it?  You can't
    really believe that he was/is and undercover agent?  Weeeeelllllll, you
    may be right, but its not undercover of anything we can talk about
    here.  But I will say, I do like your thinking... But IT'S NOT SO.....
    I do thank you, for giving me the time to EVEN think about it.....and
    to make believe he thought of ME. 



    I will answer all the Mail message I have received.  It may take
    awhile, but I will. 

    What you all have to understand, is that I'M NOT HURTING... he went by
    in my life as I did his, I didn't ask for anything, except honesty
    from DAY ONE. He said he would, well, so much of promises....He
    promised me the  stars, I should say he showed me the stars, I didn't
    want them!  Why?  Because I couldn't REACH THEM...   Didn't even
    try.....