Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Good issue, Jim.  I'm currently in my first roommate situation since
    college (most of us single folks in the Bay Area can't buy such
    pricey real-estate, and I simply can't handle apartments anymore).
    
    My roommates are a 25-year old female from England currently employed
    as an 'au pair' (since she hasn't got a green card) and a 27-year
    old guy who does technical drafting work.  We've been together for
    6 months, and consider ourselves compatible enough that we plan
    to stick together and find a new place when our lease expires (our
    landlord isn't reoffering the lease, his wife wants the place).
    
    Current situation had numerous potential conflicts: pets (we have
    3 cats with different habits); only one bathroom; limited storage
    space; limited parking space; limited kitchen cabinet space.  But
    we all pitch in on the particular chores that we individually don't
    mind, and most everything gets done...in particular, the bathroom
    stays spotless, I don't quite know how...somebody else's tolerance
    level kicks in much before I even notice anything remotely dirty
    in there.  On my part, I seem to do an awful lot of teacups, small
    plates, and other incidental dishes that seem to lie around.  Julie
    makes no bones about issuing instructions to Andy or I (I've mopped
    the kitchen floor more in the last 6 months than I had done living
    alone in the last 4 years.)
    
    Problems we don't deal with right now: nobody is dating.  Nobody
    has kids.  Nobody is divorced.  Andy disappears every weekend to
    go rafting or camping or rockclimbing or whatever.  Andy shares
    work facilities so is either scheduled 6-2 or 2-10, so we never
    conflict for bathroom usage, kitchen usage, etc...I sometimes don't
    even see him but 2 or 3 times a week.
    
    I think this is working because 1) we all pitch in 2) we accept
    complaints from each other 3) we're all willing to be flexible.
    When I think back to my days with an SO in college, or the years
    I lived in the fraternity...I know how bad it could be.
    
    DougO

    Having tried just about every combination possible and then some,
    I vote for living alone.  I like having my own space to retreat
    to.  I hate clothes and during the summer rarely wear anything in
    my apartment -- I've only "lived" in one place where everyone involved
    never bothered with clothes either.  This makes getting up in the
    morning sooo much easier.  No muss, no fuss.  Most roomates are very
    uncomfortable with that.
    
    When I did have roommates, the best situation was when it was a
    house and there were 4 of us.  A 2/2 gender split.  We drew up chores
    lists and each fended for themselves with respect to food.  There
    was a communal grocery list for some things like toilet paper. 
    I liked that atmosphere much better than when there was only one
    other person in the apartment, be it male or female.
    
    Next best is one person of the same gender.  It keeps life nice and
    simple compared to the potential problems that can come from having
    a roomate of the opposite gender.  Unless, of course, you both are
    planning on getting married.
    
    The one time I had a female roomate (which was not an SO) lasted
    only for a short period of time.  We wound up becoming completely
    infatuated with each other and for 4 weeks it was BLISS :^).  She
    moved out after 8 weeks because the infatuation wore off and it
    just became uncomfortable for both of us.  This is why I'm afraid of
    having a female roomate again.


     I am in the midst of a decision of whether or not to enter a roommate 
situation.  We are trying to predict any possible problems and plan for them,
but there are some hard realities to face.  I haven't had a roommate since
school, and that was a negative situation.  I am quite happy with the place 
in which I am currently living (the roomate move is so that I can spend more
money on travel).  There are, of course, counterbalancing positive aspects.
The new place has two bathrooms and a LOT of space.  There will be a 
significant drop in expenses for both of us.  We work schedules such that we
will not see each other 85% of the time.  


     At this point, I think that getting a roomate is the way to go.  Both of 
us expect to marry someone someday, and getting used to the quirks of another
person in the living space could be beneficial.  

                                         Greg 

    Well, for the past N years I have had nothing but SO's for roommates,
    and successfully so.  My current apartment-mate is a student (had
    to be - only one parking space with the apt and it's *mine*), and
    he and I get along really well.  Very mellow, enjoyable, easygoing,
    fun.  We talk about what's going on in our lives.  We share chores,
    but eat separately.  We have laid groundrules on how things go,
    and what is okay, and what is not.  This is important to do early
    on.
    
    A friend of mine who lives in Watertown is living with 2 or 3 other
    women.  One bought a cat without even asking the other two, and
    the other two are allergic!  It was kept on the proviso that it
    either stayed in her room, or stayed outside, neither of which is
    happening.  I think it will come to a head soon, and either the
    cat goes or the roommate goes!  
    
    Communication is key.
    
    -Jody
    

    
    	Well, I happen to "need" a roomate. The $900 or so monthly expense
    is a bit heavy to carry alone, but I somehow seem to be doing so.
    It's OK, not going to kill me or anything...
    
    	I hesitate to "look" for a roomate, by placing an ad or by
    answering one. I dont know what the paranoia is about, it's certainly
    *costly* paranoia, but I just feel that "you never really know"
    what someone is like till you have lived with them. Guess I'm just
    not that open to *trust* in others...which is really too bad!
    
    	I agree that communication is the key to quality in any sort
    of relationship. I try to be very up front with things, when
    considering a potential roomate situation (which I've done once
    since I kicked out my last roomate for being physically violent 
    with me). Being up front means that you say "there's a rock band that 
    practices here two nights a week" *before* the potential roomate moves in.
    Likewise, with all other things. This can involve a lot of trust sometimes.
    
    	So, I guess I'll be content to be able to blast my stereo whenever
    I want (97 db spl @ 1W - I've 200W/ch available), play my drumset
    whenever I want, have the rock band over whenever I want, run around
    with no clothes on whenever I want, hook up some amplifier and do
    screeching feedbacks with an electric guitar for an hour if I want
    to, saw a board in half at 3 am with my table saw, etc et al. But,
    things do get lonely at times and I'm not really sure if such absolute
    freedom in my environment is really realistic or healthy for me in the 
    long run. It sure seems enjoyable for the moment! 
                                  
    	As life's course goes on, I'm sure someone will turn up - maybe
    right around the next corner!
    
    	Joe Jas 
                
    	

    I'm pondering this myself.  Since the rent increase is just too
    much this time around, I'm looking for another place.  Since I've
    been lucky in my arrangements thus far, I've gotten finicky.  I'm
    having a hard time finding a place in my price range (the biggest
    problem being that I refuse to live off exit 5E or in Hudson). 
    So I need to start sharing a place.
    
    The advantages are that I can save a lot of money toward a place of
    my own and I get more conveniences (dishwasher, washer/dryer, a real
    kitchen).  The disadvantage is that I have to live with somebody
    else.  It hasn't been that long since college, but I've been enjoying
    it *so* much.
    
    I would kind of like to share with multiple people.  Spreads the
    strain of interrelating around.  I'm a recluse and someone who expects
    their roomie to be a pal would drive me up the wall.  (We might
    be friends, but you can't expect it up front.)  With multiple people,
    that kind of dependency is less likely, I think.  If only one roomie,
    a person of the same gender -- it's just less complicated that way.
    
    It's going to be a little tricky.  I'm used to having total control
    over my living environment.  If the kitchen is messy, it's because
    I did it and I can clean it up when I'm ready.  So that will make
    things interesting.  I'll probably stop cooking ....

    I've been kicking around the idea of getting a roommate since my
    divorce several years ago. I seem to get more serious(not real)
    as fall and hi utility bills start rolling around.
    I have had a real hard time going ahead and getting one because
    of the fact I've never had a roomie before and have only heard
    horror stories from everyone except one friend who has 4 female
    roommates and loves it. I honestly can't see myself living with
    another man so have decided if I do get an RM that female is what
    I would feel most comfortable with. Anyone out there been in the
    same baot before? How did you go about looking for an opposite sex
    roomie( non SO type) without sending the wrong vibes? Ideas?
    Maybe this is non-issue but having never looked before I dont know
    much about it... I also wonder if it is neccessary to have full
    seperate facilities(bathroom) for each person or if a 1 bathroom
    house would work given the right conditions? I know there are bus.
    like roomfinders that do placements but they wanted $300 up front
    and dont really guarantee success. Anyone use such a service before?
    
    Ideas and suggestions please,-j
    

    Jerry - 
    
    I wouldn't specify that you want an opposite sex roomate.  
    Just place an ad not specifying gender requirements.  Then
    select from the female applicants.  
    
    I have lived in roomate situations with both same and opposite
    genders and I find I am more comfortable with opposites.   We
    always had very genial relations but never went "beyond bounds".
    If you feel it's necessary set up guidelines ahead of time.
    
    Nanci

    I've had a variety of roommates, and fortunately, no horror stories
    to report.  Personally, I prefer living alone, but the cost of living
    just doesn't allow that luxury at this point.  And yes, it is more
    interesting to talk to a person instead of four walls or the TV
    set!
    
    I've lived with 1 and 2 other people, and personally, I prefer 1
    roommate.  As for chores and schedules, as others have mentioned
    in previous notes, if you set that up from the start, there is less
    chance for things to go to pieces.  (One roommate was fanatical
    about cleaning, so I told her that if she wanted things _that_ clean,
    it was up to her.)
    
    Housework gets done whenever possible, since we both have crazy
    schedules that vary from week to week.  We keep each other posted
    about guests, to avoid having people over when the other person
    has a final or whatever coming up.  Since we're both off at meetings
    or classes during the evening, and elsewhere on weekends, it works
    out pretty well.  As for the morning routine, my roommate usually
    gets up before I do, so she's in the shower first, and I use the
    time to make breakfast.
    
    The bottom line is communication and courtesy.  You don't have to
    be "buddies" with your roommate, but it does help to have common
    interests.  Both of us were looking for roommates for financial
    reasons, and we knew that together, we could find a better place
    in a better neighborhood.
    
    Start asking your friends...that's how I found my current roommate.
    
    Good luck
    Judi
    

    re -1
    
    >> asking your friends...
    
    I have often heard it said that its not a good idea to idea to get
    a friend as a roommate. If things don't work out you lose a friend
    as well as a roommate. I know several people this has happened to.
    Find a stranger, if it doesn't work out, find someone else, not
    too serious.

    I too had heard lots of horror stories about roommates, so I
    was pretty sceptical about the whole thing.    
    I put an ad in the Boston Globe, didn't specify gender. Several
    women called, and some said they didn't want a guy as a roommate.
    I ended up taking another guy as a roommate. Works out very well,
    no stresses and strains and the company is very welcome at times.
    On the other hand, I think you have to be sensitive to when your 
    roommate(s) want to be on their own and keep out of their way at
    those times.
    

    Steve

    I've lived in shared living situations all of adult life
    starting with college and through 10 years of marriage before
    moving to New Hampshire and getting divorced.  I've lived in
    4 shared situations in 3 years here and am starting on a 5th.
    They've all been enjoyable and certainly much more affordable
    than living on my own.
    
    A few pointers...
    
    So far the Digital Classified Ads have been an excellent source
    of leads for housemate situations.  I feel much less paranoid dealing
    with another DEC employee than with other strangers.  One reason
    is that communication via electronic mail and the phone is much
    easier, both before and after making the arrangements.  As noted
    previously, communication makes a big difference.
    
    I prefer to share with the owner or with someone else who's 
    responsible for holding the mortgage or lease.  Same with the
    utilities when feasible.  It just makes it a lot easier to move
    in and out when it seems right.  Economically, I think the best
    arrangement is to share with an owner who doesn't have to get
    half the rent (or payment) back from you.  
    
    I've had excellent luck with housemates of the opposite sex.
    In each case, we've clearly expressed our agreement from the
    start that there will not be a relationship that goes beyond 
    friendship.  It keeps things so much simpler.  The result is
    that we're more like brother and sister which suits me, never
    having had a sister.  
    
    It's always important to discuss economic and behavioral needs
    and preferences before entering a shared living situation.  
    Most horror stories I've heard seem to result directly from
    failure to deal with basic issues before making the commitment.
    
    Hope this helps others to decide whether and how to pursue this
    option.  One or more other people can be very pleasant to come
    home to under the right circumstances.
    
    By the way, my frequent moves have not been because of any real
    problems in the living situations.  Various causes (housemate
    got married, housemate took a job in Australia, I decided that
    20 mile commute was too far) have contributed.  
    
    Good luck!
    
    John 
    

    Re: .12
    
         You bring up an issue that my potential roommate recently
    mentioned.  A previous roommate had a girlfriend who literally 
    lived in their apartment (and paid no rent).  They fairly well 
    occupied the whole place all the time, and were pretty hard to 
    handle.  We have agreed that no guests of any gender would be 
    living in the new place for more than a day or two.  
    
         I had never even considered this possible problem, but I can
    EASILY see that it would make me VERY angry.
    
                                   Greg

I've shared housing through most of my life.  They have all been at least
reasonably successfull, except for the last.

My last experience was staying with 'friends', a couple who owned a house.
Immediately after I moved my stuff, they broke up, and the guy (a DECCIE) moved
out.  I had no idea what to do in the situation.  The woman ended up marrying
another guy two months later.  During most of the time, the feeling was like
living with a ghost, with very little contact.  It was horrible for me...

I like to be on friendly terms with roommates.  I don't usually have problems
with roommates SO's, I don't care if they 'put on a show', but I wouldn't put up
with being made to feel like I was infringing on their space.  I would make it
clear that the place was just as much my space, except for roommate's bedrooms. 

I like to share food, and other appliances with roommates...  To me, that's one
of the benifits of having roommates that I don't have to have a couple of
thousand dollars of stereo or microwave or whatever.  They are quite welcome to
read my books or use anything I have in return.  My motto is, 'If I can't tell
that you've used it, I don't mind.'; IE, if it's put back where it belongs, it's
clean, and not ripped, torn, or otherwise destroyed, I don't mind if roommates
use whatever. 

I think it's nice to cook and eat a couple of meals a week together, or have
some activities in common, but I have so many different interests that I can't
even find a SO with all the same interests, let alone a roommate :-)! 

Jim.

I've had 4 roommates in the past 11 years - one SO (3 yrs), two close 
friends (2 and 3 yrs), and one friend of a friend (2 yrs).

Living with close friends is hard.  Often they expect their problems 
to become your problems.  I'd come home and want to just relax and 
unwind, and they'd have a fight with their boyfriend and need to 
talk, etc.   Or you're on your way out the door and they're having 
a crisis...   And close friends expect to know all the details of 
your life, where you're going, when you'll be back, why you're doing 
that, etc.  -  there's less privacy that living with a stranger!  I 
know it went both ways, but its a different type of relationship, 
and it takes a lot of work.  

On the other hand, there was always someone to talk to, help and 
friendship when you needed it, and just somebody that cared.  We had 
mutual friends and there was always something to do.  I'm thinking 
now that when I lived with my friends we were both 20-25.  We've 
changed a lot since then, I wonder if it would be different now.

The friend of a friend worked out well.  We had a chance to get to
know each other before she moved in, and we became friends, but not
best friends.  It was easier, but it was a lot lonelier too.

Two years ago I bought a condo and she moved from the apartment to 
the condo with me.  By the time she left, I just didnt want a roommate
anymore.  Part of the reason I always had one was to save 
for a condo, which I finally got.  And I didnt like sharing the place 
I worked for and owned.  Kind of wierd, but I felt if I got another
roommate, they wouldnt care about it as much as I did.  (Just like
I used to feel about the apartments I rented.)   By the time that 
feeling wore off, I was used to living alone.

About living alone (11 months now) - I love it, but I think I've been
developing some bad habits.  I've been getting a little lazy 
and set in my ways, and getting used to living with someone else
again will be real hard.

I've never shared an apartment with a guy (non-SO), but not becuase
I had anything against it.  It just never came up.   

Kp.

I've had 2 roommates.  The first was my best friend, and we got along well
together.  True, he has some habits that drive me crazy (they still drive
me crazy), but I know I have some that annoyed him too.  Since this was
my first experience of living with someone away from home, I had some learning
to do, some maturing to do, and just in general learning to be more easygoing
and flexible about things.  I learned a lot, about living and about myself.
We're still best friends, the only reason we're not living together is we
wanted to buy condos.  As it turned out, we're still pretty close because
we got condos in the same building!

Then there was a period of about 3-4 months when I lived alone.  I didn't
know if I'd like it, but after a couple weeks I ended up *loving* it.  It's
really great, the freedom you have.  I swore I would never have another
roommate again until....

My second (and current) roommate is a good friend who needed a place to stay
when he started developing problems with his fiancee.  He's very good about
being fairly neat (like myself) and clean and helping out with the housework.
I do have to inform him of certain things that one should/shouldn't do with
various pieces of cookware/cutlery from time to time, but he respects it
(even if he doesn't understand or agree with it).  The only *really* annoying
thing is when he has lady friends over; I feel like a stranger in my own
place.  Unfortunately, I'm also a light sleeper and I sometimes have trouble
sleeping with the added noise (I've "taught" him to be quiet, but adding
another person is bound to increase the decibels!).  Still, he's a good friend
who's helped me out, I enjoy his company, and the extra money really helps --
it made it *much* easier to go to England for a couple weeks, so I really
can't complain too much!

I guess overall I've been pretty darn lucky, considering what I've heard.


Brian

I absolutely hate having roommates (the non-SO kind anyway). I've had many in
my daze and most were bad experiences. I like my own space too much. I like
to play what I want on the stereo when I want to play it. I like to watch tv
when I want. I like to have company when I want. I like to put things down
and have them be there when I want them. I like to be responsible for my
own messes and don't like looking at someone else's. Oddly enough the best
roommate I ever had was in college and she was totally opposite from me.
We were like Ocsar and Felix (I was Oscar :-)). We had different tastes in
clothes, men, friends everything. She got up in the morning and spent hours
putting on gobs of make-up and ironing her clothes and all the other
whatnots. I woke up, crawled out of bed, took a shower and went off to
school. We had a few things in common and did stuff together but the
rest of the time we went our own ways. We were complete strangers when we
met and we're still friends to this day. I still prefer my own place but
if I had to, I'd want someone who was quite opposite from me.

Jenna

    My roommate right now is my younger sister.  The reason I say right
    now, is because she is moving out next month.  She had a date several
    months ago and he never went home.  He has lived there and never
    offered a penny to the support of the apartment.  This has caused
    me to have a dislike toward him.  Because of this dislike, my sister
    has decided to go live with him.  I am not condemning her for falling
    in love, but I think she could have talked to me several months
    ago and explain his financial situation.  Maybe then things would
    have been better.
    
    I am in the process of finding a smaller apartment.  I have had
    it for the time with roommates.  I am looking foward to being on
    my own again.  To come and go as I please.
    

    I'll add a little humor to this topic if I may......
    
    I moved to New Hampshire 2 years ago.  I needed to get a place to
    live and needed someone to share the expenses with.  With very little
    time to do this, I was unable to be very picky!
    
    I moved into a beautiful brand new apartment with a girl who's parents
    were friends of a relative of mine.  She seemed nice and pretty
    quiet.  Well, looks can definetly be deceiving!!!!  I'll call her
    "Bird" from here......
    
    Bird was 24 years old, going on 16!!!  It's hard to describe but
    try to draw a picture with the following examples:
    
    Bird was not quiet, to say the least.  She could talk your ear off!
    She was also the most "unkempt" person I have ever met.  Ex:  I was
    taking my small pile of clothes (1 weeks worth) down to the laundry
    room when she jumped up and said, "Wait I'll get mine and go with
    you."  OK, right?  Well she walks out of her room with every piece
    of clothing she owned (not an exaggeration) in her arms.  I asked
    her when the last time she did wash was.  Her reply was, "Oh last
    week, I just don't know what's clean and what's dirty."  She threw
    all her clothes in the middle of the floor when they came out of
    the dryer, when she came home from work.....whenever!!!!!!
    
    I was dusting the living room one Saturday and Bird said, "Can I
    help?"  After recovering from the shock of her offering I said sure
    and told her to clean up the kitchen.  My back was to the kitchen,
    when all of a sudden I heard a spray sound and then "WHOOSH!!!!!!"
    I turned around to see Bird standing there covering her face (she
    was fine), the ceiling and stove covered with black!  I immediately
    asked her if she was alright and asked what she did.  Then I noticed
    a can of ENDUST laying on the counter.  She sprayed ENDUST on our
    gas stove!!!!  I couldn't believe it!  I did take the time (and
    I MEAN I really took the time) to show her the right way to do things
    and what to use, etc.  She was just very lazy and nearest cleaning
    solution is what she used.  
    
    There are many more stories but this has been long enough.  All
    I am trying to say in this reply is SCAN your possible roommates
    as much as possible!  This girl was so naive she could have done
    a lot of damage to both herself and me much less the apartment.
    She would buzz people in when she didn't even recognize their voices
    on the intercom, etc.  And the list goes on......  
    
    
    dLt
    

    re. .19  Thanks for the humor! Those of us who feel we could write
    a book on roommates can relate, I am sure. Over the years I have
    had every imaginable type of roomie, SO's, groups, non-SO opposite
    sex, etc. One thing people have not mentioned here is the age 
    factor: what you can handle fresh out of college in your 20's becomes
    intolerable by the time you hit 30. I had the problem of a roomie's
    SO moving in without paying rent at my FIRST apartment junior year
    of college. Since then I was always clear about time limits on
    overnight guests. Another big issue is always standards of cleanliness.
    One summer I got so upset over this and when I approached the roomie,
    she said, "I don't do bathrooms" (or dusting or vacuuming). She
    did keep the kitchen nice and was a GREAT cook and otherwise a good
    roomie, so I just decided to live with it and do the cleaning myself.
    My advise would be to negotiate to hire a housekeeper if the parties
    cannot agree on cleanliness standards. My sister was my roomie for
    a few months (her first rent-paying independent situation) and loved
    it. Only she had TOO many dinner guests and I missed my privacy.
    It is definitely a trade off: I have learned lots from roommates,
    good recipes, shared friends and parties. But now the privacy and
    freedom to run your own place is more important.....

    
    ....  Just my subject (wonder why I didn't think of it..)
    
    Over the last 4+ years I have had.. mmm.. let me take off my shoes
    :-)..  to count..    accually, I'm with the 5th one presently.
    
   A few tid-bits on them..
    
    1.   Female (opposite sex - non SO )..    after 8 mo's of having
    too good of a time ( borrowed a picture to de-seed her pot and 
    later to 'road painting'  aka white lines..)  no thanks - kicked
    her butt out.
    
    2.  same sex - no connections ..   Not a bad roomie at all.. 
    very few disagreements and they were easily resolved. Moved
    jobs and moved closer to work - he was there about a year.
    
    3.  same sex - co- deccie..  working with him was no indication
    of his home life..    just packed up and left one day leaving me
    with left over expenses..  cops showed up a week after he split
    looking for him...    saw his name in the Nashua telegraph for
    selling cocaine to an undercover cop - hope they threw away the
    key !
    
    4. same sex - no connections..    this guy was an a**hole with a
    great disposition..   was helpful when convienient, lied thru his
    teeth, didn't pay his entire way ( I'll get the rest to you next
    week..) and had "looser" written all over his face - in invisible
    ink !  Ex-wife in Maine decided she wanted him back after i started
    court action for the "next week" that never showed up.
    
    5.  This is my brothers SO..   and yes.. with both of them there
    its' just not my house..     The bathroom situation in the morning
    is interesting at times.. and they're not as conservative as I am..
    afterall - we're splitting the bills right..?  well i don't like
    ~$60 elec bills for 175 watts in the bathroom and 165 watts 
    in the kitchen and they're both in the bedroom.. (we have gas heat,
    hot water, and drier)...  gee, does that seem unreasonable.??
    
    Next place is going to have "my 2 favorite" roomies..  alone with
    "me" there will be "myself" and "I".. !  (Unless a better situation
    is available between now and then [ never know when and where that
    special someone is]) 
    
    K-

    	I've had roomies ever since college.
    
    	Straight out of college, I moved in with an old high school friend
    of mine.  Things were great until his girlfriend moved in without
    paying any rent. (She had her own apartment, but was never there.)
    Eventually, we moved to a larger place and we "split" the rent.
    I ended up moving out when I started losing all the arguments 2-1.
    
    	I got a place, then supported it myself for 2 months while I
    searched for a suitable roomie.  One came along, and we lived together
    very successfully for a year.  Then my landlord decided to sell,
    and my roomie was getting married, so I was looking again...
    
    	My old high school friend had broken up with his girlfriend,
    so we moved back in together (having had a long chat about what
    caused me to move out in the first place.) We lived together for
    about a year and a half 'til he met the woman of his dreams and
    they decided to get married and move into their own place.
    
    	Fortunately, a friend of mine knew someone he worked with (at
    DEC) who was looking for a place to live, so I met Mark, and we've
    been living together a year and a half with only really minor problems
    which we've talked out.  I keep my mess in my room, he keeps his
    in his room, we keep the common areas reasonably clean, and we seldom
    see each other.  We're both very busy with our own things, and it
    was more than a year before we'd gone out for breakfast together
    one morning.  It's worked out well...
    
    	When I move out of here, I'm probably going to buy something
    of my own, so probably no roomie...
    
    						--Doug

     (I know this entry is too long, but I don't make many entries!)

     I guess the most roommates I ever had at one time was 24 ... 
that was a 3 room apartment (plus kitchen and 1 bath) ...
and everyone got along fine!  This was when I ran a crash-pad in San Francisco, 
("the sixties"). Ya know...I still can't figure out how the bathroom thing 
worked out so well in that place.

    Anyway... I have lived in other roommate groups of 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, and 2 
over the past tweny years or so.  Almost all good situations.  Same sex,
mixed sex, couples, children, whatever.  I have developed a number of lifelong 
friendships out of these situations.  And gotten to know a lot of 
interesting people.

    But ... should I tell you this ... I guess so, it's already been
brought up in another note ... finally I hit disaster ... this year ...
I had one roommate, oposite sex (this was nothing unusual) ... and ... 
of all the crazy things to do ... I fell in love with her.  Total infatuation.  
Sigh.  Well, this is outside what you're "supposed to do" with a roommate, 
and unfortunately, the same feelings didn't happen to her and this made things 
rather uncomfortable.  I guess it's bad enought when it happens and you live 
in different towns, but when it's you only roommate ...; so after sorting that 
out (sigh), I've decided to live alone for a bit.

   But enough of my problems; here are a few suggestions about how to avoid 
some potential roomate difficulties:

   A good INTERVIEW can save you a lot of problems.  All roomates should be
there to interview any potential new person.  You need at least an
hour for the interview; if it's a no-go you may be done in 10 minutes
but if talk comes easy you really need time to expore possibilities.
And QUALIFY potential roommates over the phone before setting up a
meeting ... such things as children, pets, allergies to pets, and such
may mean it's a waste of time to arrange a visit.

   A good type question is "what do you feel you're looking for in a place
to live?"  It's pretty open ended and you'll get some feeling as to if
you even want to meet this person.  And how well they communicate.
And how realistic they are about acknowledging and talking about their needs.
  
   As another noter wisely observed, people in their 30's and 40's often don't 
seem to be able to tolerate as much chaos as those in their early 20's; this is
REALLY(!) true, and if you're "mixing years" I think you need to have a 
straightforward understanding about lifestyles in terms of noise, standards 
for cleanliness of common living areas, "overnight guests", and the food trip.  
And parties.

   Another problem other people have mentioned: the SUPRISE EXTRA ROOMMATE 
who moves in (boyfriend or girlfriend).  In most of the situations that
I've been in we've agreed on  a maximum number of nights per week that
anyone could have "overnight guests" without the consent of everyone
else (typically 2 nights).  Everybody then feels reasonably protected
against the "uninvited roommate"; and there never was a problem when
we did have the exta person move in ... invariably they had come
to understand that their welcome to stay was based on their ability
to get along with ALL the roommates ... and people who wanted to move in were
thus accomodating, and I don't every remember saying "No" when anyone
wanted a full-time friend living with them.  Usually people got around
to saying, "Oh, yeah, if you want Julie/Jim to spend more time here,
that's fine with me" before any official census had to be taken.

   Potential major hassle .... MONEY.   From my experience, for things
to work smoothly, everyone's budget has to easily handle the cost of living
(rent/utilities/shared food/etc).  Othewise you get into uncomfortable
feelings and tension about such major issues as spending too much on 
the toilet paper; and you start wondering how your "quality of life" 
could have gone so downhill on such an issue.  A little, just a little, 
extra money greases the relationships real well.  Too little, even from 
one person, puts a lot of strain on the whole situation pretty quickly.
Attitudes about money are important.  The financial situation should be 
very explicitly discussed (even put in writing if it's complex or if 
someone is under financial pressure) so there's no misunderstandings 
 X months's down the line.  About now you realize I'm well past my 
"early 20's" when I gave very little thought to such issues
(of course I often didn't know where I'd be sleeping next week, but
everything worked out ok.)

   FOOD!  I eventually came around to a policy of "start out relatively
independent and let it come together as much as possible".  The
more "cooperative" the food thing gets, the better the whole situation
is.  When you get to the point that people are picking up responsibility
it gets good ... you know when you come home totally wiped out and need to lie
down that someone else will be sensitive to your situation and they'll
cook dinner and just give you a call when it's ready.  And in turn
you'll probably clean up everything and do the same for them when can
use a little taking-care-of.   About this point in roommate situations 
we would seem to stop keeping track of how much we were spending on food ... 
people would just buy what's needed, with a feeling for what is their 
fair share.  But it doesn't have to work out as a group event to get
along as roommates.  Mealtime is the best time, 'tho, to keep in touch
with everyone's lives and concerns.  Better than "house meetings" which
can get political pretty easily.

   DRUGS!  ya gotta talk about this one beforehand too ... and that
shouldn't be big deal, but I sometimes feel funny "interviewing"
people about drug habits ... but one time when I didn't I
wound up with an out-of-control violent alcoholic and it was real bad ... 
one of the few bad roommate things I've had to deal with.  Different drug
habits are fine as long as everybody can respect the other peoples'
feelings  (hey, we even had rules in Haight-Ashbury: no intravenous
drug use, permission from chief drug supervisor person ...
that often turned out to be me, but there wasn't really a title to
the role ... before doing any "heavy drugs" ... 
so that there would be a support network there if someone needed help...
I mean, ya know, we had some seriously emotionally disturbed kids from time to 
time who needed some structure...and some careing)...ya know? ... and with
twenty-some people in three rooms...anyway...

   I don't think it's vitally necessary to have a lot of common interests or
activities, as long as people find the other roommates interesting as people... 
it's nice, but not critical.

   Just consideration/communication/good intent/honesty/responsibility
(at least occasionally responsible!).   

   Hey, you might become friends for life.  Or not.

						Dennis

    re .24
    
    I enjoyed all of it and wish that I'd thought of all those things
    in my note, or even in my search for housemates over the years.
    I don't remember ever staying at your place during my hitch-hiking
    years, but it must have been like some of those other safe places
    I found when they were needed most.
    
    Thanks, Dennis!
    
    John

    re .24
       
    You mentioned a sudden "extra roomie."  Bird decided to have a 
    "boyfriend" stay over one night.  Hah!  It turned out to be over
    a week!  That wasn't the worst.  She didn't tell me the first night
    that he was staying over.  I got up the next morning, like I always
    did, in my T-shirt and underwear, opened my bedroom door and the
    first thing I saw was this guy who I didn't even know, walk past
    me and say, "Morning."  I almost died!!!  
    
    Needless to say, remember to set some ground rules, even if it's
    a note put under your door saying, "BEWARE, MAN IN APARTMENT!"
    
    Denise
    

    
    When you're home without your boyfriend, start making Xmas gifts.
    Cross-stitch, knitting, sewing... usually less expensive than buying
    gifts and much more personal. 

    
    my youngest daughter is about 30% roommate, 30% daughter and 40%
    friend
    my oldest daughter is about 25% roommate, 20% daughter, 35% friend
    and 20% pain in the....
    :-)
    her boyfriend is 40%roommate and 40%visitor and 20% friend
    their friend, andrea (animal!) is 80% roommate and 20% friend

    but i still do most of the dishes...:-(
    
    i've been conditioning/brainwashing/developing my daughters to
    think of themselves more and more like my friend and roommate
    and less and less like my daughters...
    
    my goal is to have no daughters and 2 friends for life...
    
    it keeps getting easier
    

    
    RE: .27 should be elsewhere...