Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    I wish I had an answer for you, if I did I would have the answer
    for myself, (very simular situtation).  No one that I have ever
    talked to about how to get started/restarted was ever able to 
    give me any real advice, other then just 'get involved'.  They always
    point to church groups (sorry I'm not a member of a church, nor
    do I think I should join one just for social reasons.), singles groups
    (sorry that aren't any where I live/work, or atleast there aren't
    active), go back to school (great idea if you don't already have a 
    degree(s), and if you have plenty of time and money (single parent 
    types don't usualy have an over abundance of either).
    So anyways I kind of take there advice as realy saying, sorry, I
    don't realy know.  I quess I feel that there is no right way, so
    for me, I just keep trying to be myself, be open to possibilities,
    try not to look for (make) things to happen, and hope that someday
    something will happen/someone will notice.  I may not have any great
    words of wisdom for you, but atleast you will know, your not alone.
    
    Wishing you luck, happiness, and success.   

    ANYWHERE.... (except maybe the ladies room).
    
    I used to wonder where I can meet women until a friend gave me
    a little phrase to say when I feel atracted to a lady...
    
    "Nothing ventured,  Nothing gained."
    
    Try it.

       I feel for ya. I'm not ready to start over again just yet but I
       can already see it's going to be tough. For one thing, I'm not so
       lenient about what interpersonal behavior is acceptable. I'm also
       more set in my ways than I was in my early 20s and not of a mind
       to take a lot of grief for anybody. I feel jaded and vulnerable
       at the same time. Ah well, life isn't safe and never has been,
       sometimes you just have to jump and hope there's a net to catch
       you. 

       I agree you shouldn't do things just to meet men. If you don't
       enjoy doing whatever it is then why would you want to get together
       with someone who does? I'd feel someone was phony who did that.

       Seems ironic though, we hear men saying they can't find women and
       women saying they can't find men. liesl

    
    Just a coupla thoughts.......
    
    How about if you just think about you and what you'd like to do.
    In any area - playing sports, learning more, joining organisations
    that you support. This might help you with the "lonesome" feelings
    anyway, plus anyone you might run into would have something in common
    with you.....
    
    Someone once said that happiness (or, I guess, men) are like
    butterflies - if you look for them you can't find them, but if you're
    quietly getting on with something else they just turn up and settle
    on your shoulder....
    
    Abigail
    

    re:-1 Exactly what I was going to say.
    
    Just let things happen, don't "go lookin'". If you try to force
    things the chemistry is usually wrong and you try to accept things
    that under natural circumstances you wouldn't accept. 
    
    Good Luck.
    
    Ken 

    It seems .4 and .5 have the right stuff. I believe the key is to
    find something YOU enjoy and pursue it. When you're involved in
    an activity you like, an inner glow develops which attracts others.
    People enjoy being around people who are happy. It's difficult to
    be unhappy when engaged in an activity that makes you happy.
    
    It's difficult to be happy in any forced situation. I wouldn't join
    any clubs, leagues or organizations *just* to meet someone, but
    I wouldn't let the joining stop me if I enjoyed the activity it
    represents. Find something that pleases *you*. It brings serenity.
    (In rereading this note, I find I was repetitious, but I hope you
    get the idea.) I wish you happiness and fulfillment. Do your part:
    GO FOR IT!
    
    					Susan
    

    RE: .0
    
    I too went through that period of where to find someone.. I *do*
    go to church every Sunday (give or take a Sunday), and there aren't
    any guys there, so don't worry about looking there :-)....
    
    A place to possibly start is the singles file HIT::SINGLES... you
    can put in an ad where no one will know it is you, so it is safe
    on that level...  But, beware, I did place an ad, and got close to
    60+ responses.... it was VERY VERY difficult trying to wade through
    them, but can be well worth it in the end...
    
    Sports is another way, but again, like church, there have to be
    single guys on the team :-)...
    
    Don't force things... it will come when you least expect it...
    
    Gale

    
    
    	I can understand how you feel, I am a non-drinker and about
    	the only places to meet other singles in my area is a bar/club.
    	I am into camping and fishing, but so far all the women I've
    	met through this activity have been with SO's, oh well, so much
    	for that. I just push onward and don't worry about it much.
    	I've found that being single and alone doesn't mean the end
    	of the world. In alot of ways I'm happier now than I've ever
    	been with an SO, guess I just need to run into an SO that shares
    	the same interests..
    
    	G_B

    It's really hard to get that part of your life in gear again.
    Since you're just starting to get back into the "social scene" and
    have children, you may want to investigate Parents Without Partners.
    I was a member for a couple years prior to remarriage and it was
    a big help in bringing me "out of my shell".  You can meet some
    great people there and get to know them different social settings
    with and without their children.  They usually have so many activities
    planned in a month that you can really pick and choose what you
    want to attend and how involved you want to be.  Most chapters have
    an orientation night where you can find out what it's all about
    and get a 30 day "courtesy membership" so you can check things out
    for yourself before making the decision to join.  I can give you
    more information off-line if you'd like, just contact me at the
    above node.
    
    Judy  

Parents without Partners...  It sounds interesting, but...

My first impression of that title is that this is a group of Parents looking for
a partner to be a parent to their children...  Or that it's a glorified
specialized singles club...  I don't like clubs without a 'interest'.  I
wouldn't join a fraternity, or the Elks, or Masons merely for the social
grouping aspect. 

I am speaking from total ignorance, so perhaps someone who knows more about
PWP can address these concerns.

Jim.

    
    	There is no "mainstream". You meet people (Men included!) by
    *living*, and, that's not in the minimal sense! As soon as you decide
    to live for your own enjoyment and interests (as much as you can,
    anyway) you'll find that your 'sphere of experience' will broaden
    right along with your activities. Within this sphere, you're bound to
    meet new people, some of which will_be interesting men! People are
    very attracted to others whom they see *living* some, enjoying
    them *selves* by doing things - whatever it is! A typical reaction?
    "Wow - look at her - wonder how she does it!?! - I'd like to meet
    this person!"
    
    	Note the contrast between "living" as I've described and merely
    "attending" some of life's social functions. Going to the singles
    dance and sitting there hoping to meet "Mr Right" is much different
    than organizing it and making sure it's a blast for everyone!
    
    	Joe Jas

    
    Hi Jim!
    
    Hopefully I can help a you and others a little on the PWP question.
    FYI - I belong to both PWP and TSL and found them to be *much* better
    than the singles bar scene that I (personally) can't stand!!
    
    While both of these clubs are for singles, PWP is specifically for
    single parents (required for membership).  By single parent, you
    don't have to have custody of the children (OK even if you don't
    get to see your kids or if they are grown and married/moved out).
    The advantages with PWP if you have kids are that every member you
    meet has the additional commonality with you that they have/had
    kids and (maybe) can understand your situation better and (possibly)
    offer experienced support/advice.  Another advantage is that many
    of the PWP activities are family oriented, as opposed to adult only
    oriented.  There is also a youth group associated with PWP (IYC)
    that provides support/activities for kids in the "single
    parent/divorced" situations.
    
    Both clubs offer social activities (dances, trips, etc.) at group
    discounted rates, but also hold discussion/support meetings, usually
    on a weekly basis.
    
    If you or anyone else has specific questions, please feel free to
    ENET them to me and I will answer them, if I can.
    
    					Joe

    Just a little more on PWP.  One of the things emphasized at orientation
    meeting was that PWP is NOT a dating service, if you meet someone,
    great, but it was not the happy hunting grounds.  Then emphasis
    of the group is mainly the kids.  The guidelines for planning
    activities state that there must be a balance between adult and
    children's/family activities.  The national headquarters "rides
    herd" on every chapter and their calendars, membership, etc. and
    keeps the local chapters informed of any changes in local and national
    laws that may affect their members (ie, taxes, child support, etc.).
    
    Since it's an international organization, there's also an international
    convention yearly as well as regional meetings every 2 months or
    so.
    
    As in note .12, I'd be glad to answer any questions I can via enet.
    (Just for the record, I was on the Board of Directors as Membership
    Director so I was pretty heavily involved for a while)
    
    Judy

    
    Having been through this myself I can relate.  I found that it
    doesn't really matter what groups you're involved with or what
    you _do_ as long as you're happy with yourself.  
    
    It took me a long time to feel enough self-confidence to really
    project myself in a positive and healthy way.  During this time
    I forced myself to get out and "mingle" but never attracted
    anybody.  Well, it took some time and effort on my part to really
    heal my psyche.  Now I meet guys everywhere (at church, on planes,
    in the mall, at the park, on the phone at work - yes, I now have
    an ongoing relationship of over a year with one of DEC's customers
    that I "met" over the phone).
    
    Good luck.
    
    Nanci

    RE .1:
    
    Dan,  you keep griping about not meeting women, but what are you
    actually doing about it?  Why *not* go to church for social reasons?
    OK, if you really don't want to go to church, then why not take
    a course in something that interests you - *so what* if you've already
    got a degree, there are always more interesting things to learn
    about, unless you're just ready to turn over and let life pass you
    by.  The singles group here, though not exactly bursting with life,
    *does* exist is some form - they recently had a party with about
    30 or so people (if I remember correctly what I was told) - did
    you go to that??  Talk to Vivian Sparrow or Sherry Litasi - they
    seem to know most of the local single folks, and are working on
    a Colorado Singles notesfile.  GET INVOLVED - if the DEC singles
    group isn't active enough, then why don't you do something to get
    things going, and get people off their a**es?  Do something about
    it!!!  Forgive me for flaming, but there are 90 singles on the
    distribution list, and last year only about 6 ever showed up to
    anything, and yet they'll complain about never meeting anybody.
    You've got to quit whining "poor me" and get out in the world
    among 'em, and *do something*!  Last summer, singles-wise, we had
    nothing, and I felt we needed to get singles together here, and
    one way or another, got the distribution list, and tried to get
    people to go out and meet each other.  What's it take, a cattle-
    prod?  Is everybody in Colorado Springs suffering from apathy due
    to radon gas, or what?  I gave up - it's Sherry's baby now.  
    EOF [end of flame]
    
    I, too, enjoy doing solitary things - camping, hiking, cross-country
    skiing.  I usually go alone to remote areas because I don't like
    crowds, I enjoy the soul-soothing peace and quiet of the great
    outdoors - don't meet many available people that way.  But you can
    prepare yourself by taking survival/outdoor seminars (given free by
    sporting-goods stores), classes, etc. and meet people there.  Or
    there are photography clubs, hiking clubs, you name it.  You're
    doing something you enjoy, learning, growing, and meeting people
    all at the same time.
    
    As for bars - you meet people who don't have anything better to
    do with their time than drink at best, alcoholics at worst (hopefully).
    
    I, too, recommend Parents Without Partners.  One of the hardest
    parts about being a single parent is the encounters with single
    people who don't understand or want to deal with the responsibilities
    you are obligated to as a parent.
    
    Good luck to you!
    
    Paula 

I guess one of the reasons I shy away from the PWP idea is that I have the
feeling that any single parent (female) would already have their hands full with
their kids, and would not want to put up with any extra complications, such as
dealing with another person's (man's) kids.  I also feel stretched to the max in
dealing with my own kids, and wonder how the hell I could handle the extra
complications of another person's kids. 

In the individual relationships I've had with single mothers, I have had some
problems, and some successes.  I would judge that I've risen to the situation as
was necessary, but the abstract idea of dealing with another person's kids is
quite quite frightening.  I feel that in practice I don't 'discriminate' against
single parents, but there is that fear of the situation in an abstract sense. 

Clear as mud?

Jim.

    
    Since my name was mentioned, I suppose I should jump in here...
    Thanks Paula...your flames are right on!  For those who don't
    know (in Colorado anyway), tomorrow night we are having an
    office party at Studebakers...see Colorado notes or send me mail
    for more info... Jerry tells me over 100 people have sent him mail
    on it, so it should be a great turnout!  Hopefully, I'll get to
    meet more of the singles face to face.
    
    Personally I got involved with this stuff to become more social
    and outgoing (not that I'm exactly a wallflower), but after being
    married for 17 years (divorce is final Nov 4th!) I wasn't exactly
    experienced in dating.  Last time I dated, you worried whether to
    kiss the guy on the first date :*)
    
    I've been meeting lots of nice people and within the singles group
    here at CXO, just trying to stir up the pot is letting me meet lots
    of nice guys.  I'm personally happy to see people get together and
    have a good time, not really in it to meet MR. right...  If I happen
    to meet someone fun to be with, so be it! 
    
	so just go out and get involved with activities you like.
    sure it's been said before...but doing something you enjoy makes
    you interesting to another who may enjoy the same thing.  It's a
    numbers game...lots of men (ok and women, too) and you just have 
    to keep meeting them to find the one right for you.  Let the
    search be fun, don't get serious right away, just enjoy it!
    

The issue may not be *where* to find men/women.  

Our society is isolated.  People do not talk to one another.

It doesn't matter if you join a club, church, etc.  The real problem is
in breaking the "sound barrier".  People have to feel safe in
communicating with one another.  I imagine that a lot of people join
organizations in hopes of meeting someone special, but do they find that
they really do make new acquaintances?

Happy hunting...

    I've always met lots of nice people in university Continuing Ed
    programs and at city/town-run night-time education courses.  Even
    if you don't meet "that other person" you still learn something
    and hopefully have fun.
    
    -.1 is right on the money, though.  You have to talk to them.  Too
    many people are afraid of starting a conversation with someone they
    don't know.

    RE: .17 and the first date...
    
    You still worry :-)

	
    	I agree with .19. I have met some of the most interesting people
    while attending (evening) school. It really is a great place to
    meet people from all walks of life.
    	I (as most everyone) have also been in the same situation. After
    my divorse I lost all ability in meeting people. Actually I was
    scared to death thinking about it. The easiest way to handle my
    inability to deal with the situation was to pull into my self. 
    	I would watch people interacting with others and wish I could
    do the same. But I always made excuses for not doing so.. If someone
    asked me to go somewhere I would always have something (more important)
    to do. If I was where other people were, I would always find a way
    of excusing myself.
    	But then one day I woke up .... I decided my life was going
    nowhere. People were meeting others and carrying out happy lifes.
    Times were changing and I was not. I realised I put myself in a
    very comfortable position. I had myself locked in a closet so far
    away from the main house that noone would find me. If you have heard
    about comfort zones, I had the best one going.
    	Upon that realization, I decided something was needed. I resolved
    to make an attempt. All of a sudden people were all around. I really
    must have had blinders on. (I never saw them)....
    	I took some chances. I talked to people. I pulled myself out
    of that comfortable area and changed it. I stopped expecting others
    to do it for me. I have just gotten married this year. If I had
    never taken the chance, I would still be wallowing in my pain, and
    isolation. I met my wife because I took the step. You have to resolve
    to do it, then it will all fall into place. You have to expect some
    hurt, plenty of fear, and lots of confusion. If you are willing
    to allow yourself to feel it, then you will meet people, and grow.
    If you are not willing to face occasional defeat, then you will
    always be looking, and wishing.
    	There are plenty of people out there in the same situation.
    There always will be as long as people refuse to take chances. If
    you want something bad enough you fight for it. It really is no
    different than getting a new job. If you fear the thought, then
    you will always wish for a new job. If you want it bad enough you
    will find a way. Look for different ways........
    take the chance and your whole life can change. 
    

    re .0  I've met a lot of people at college (evenings seem to draw
    an 'older' crowd) 
    
    If you were a guy, and wanted to meet young women by the *hundreds*
    I'd recommend.....naaah, I'm saving that one :-)
    
    Dana

    Hi Kathy! Good conference .... isn't it!?!?! So far I have read
    that ..... 1) People have to take a chance and say HI! with a smile
    		  That was in .1
    
    		2) The most enjoyable way to meet new people, painlessly
    		   even when shy,. is to become involved in a group
    		   activity that you enjoy, like skiing, biking, horse-back
    		   riding, hang gliding, etc .... (.11 & .15)
    
    		3) .17 was right ... it truely is a numbers game. It
    		   seems that the more people you meet, the greater
    		   the odds for success. So I guess this relates back
    		   to Item 2 above .... GET INVOLVED with group activities.
    		   It's the best way to make new friends with garunteed
    		   common interest(s).
    
    For myself, I sort of surfed my way along meeting people in the
    singles file. I met some real nice people and I met some peolpe
    that, I feel, should be living in a cornflakes box ... ;-) ...but
    if I hadn't done that I wouldn't have met anyone at all. 
    
    I think that you did a smart thing by letting the shock waves of
    divorce settle for a while before you considered going out and dating
    again. I started to soon and blew off one potential relationship
    that would have been intriguing. Yet I found another that has been
    satisfying. (Sorry I'm not into personal specs here ... folks)
    
    But the point I am making is I wasn't really looking to get into
    a relationship. I was only trying to meet new people to expand my
    own awareness of interpersonal interaction. I had fun! In the, for
    the most part, platonic sense of the word. Also I was going to nite
    school at Suffolk University and met ALOT of people there. 
    
    A good suggestion was given earlier on in this note, join a school
    for continuing adult education. For example ... there is one n Boston
    called The Cambridge Adult School of Education. They cover everything
    from touring the sleaziest spots in town to flying a plane, knitting,
    programming, TM, etc..............
    
    Be happy. Like attracts Like. 
    
    Samurai_Writer
    AISVAX::BUCUVALAS

    I moved out here from California almost 2 years ago.  When I first
    moved out here (NH) I had a *real* tough time meeting people,
    especially *nice* people.
    
    I got into the club scene but never really met anyone I cared to
    date.
    
    When I started working at DEC and heard of the singles file I replied
    to a couple of the anonymous noters.  The men I met were very nice
    and I really enjoyed there company.  I am now engaged to someone
    I met through the singles file and couldn't be happier!
    
    It's a nice way to meet people because you can get to know this
    person over the terminal and when you finally do meet in person,
    you won't feel alot of pressure because you feel like you already
    know this person.
    
    
   I'm very grateful to the SINGLES conference!  

    Those of you telling the basenoter to try hit::singles should be
    aware that she *has* noted there, in June and August- in August,
    she didn't even use the anonymous feature when she entered note
    1718.  So...I think her basenote here is really asking for suggestions
    of a different nature- maybe she doesn't want to meet only Digits!
    
    DougO

    REPLY -.1:
    
    	You don't only meet Digits in HIT::SINGLES.  I recently met
    someone very nice who is the friend of a Digit.  Actually,  I'm
    not a "real" Digit,   I'm a contract worker,  like many of the other
    people who read Singles.  
    
    Just an obsevation.....Bill
    

    I'd like to put in a slightly negative vote against SINGLES - at
    least if you're just starting out.  The problem is "sensory overload"
    - if you place an ad, you will likely get dozens if not hundreds
    of responses, and it is emotionally wearing to try to respond or
    even keep up with all of them.  Even if you only meet a few, you
    will be going through rapid-fire sessions of meeting someone,
    telling them your "story", then possibly getting rejected (or doing
    the rejection).  This is tolerable in low doses, but when it gets
    to be three or four times a week or more, it does start to be
    a problem.
    
    Sure, give SINGLES a try later.  It's lots of fun, and I met several
    nice people through it.  But it was like spinning through a revolving
    door for a while.
    
    My suggestion would be to start out on something slower.  In my
    case, it took me a while to get my self-assurance up to reasonable
    levels, and I still think I should have waited on SINGLES.  Perhaps
    your experience will be different.
    
    				Steve

    Re: .29 (Steve Lionel)
    
    Exactly -- that is the reason I've avoided putting notes into =singles.
    A friend of mine did and got about 10 responses -- sounds like a
    little, right?  It turned out to be a real strain, emotionally and
    on his personal life.  It also took him a lot of time just to respond
    and keep up conversations with these 10 people.  Imagine getting
    70+ responses!  I see that strain as much, much worse than not having
    an SO.

    Hide Ho Steve! You're absolutely right. The singles notesfile CAN
    be a rat race to the finish line. When I put my note in over a year
    ago I was averaging 5 replies per day! Can you imagine???? 5 a day!!!!
    I couldn't even have peace at work to do my work. Sooooooo ........
    what I did is remove my entry after 2 weeks. I figured 20-30 replies
    were more than I would ever get around to. What I wanted to do is
    arrange the odds in my favor. And I too don't care for bars. To
    many fakers and to many illegal and physical dangerous activities
    there for my tastes. 
    
    Any way, I filed all my replies and began to answer them one at
    a time. As the answers came back I had to make judgement calls as
    to whether I would want to pursue this any further. With some I
    did. In all cases I made sure I arranged them such that I would
    have 2 dates per week until I settled down (if at all) with one.
    
    I went out with 10 people. Most were on the far side of a cornflakes
    box I admit. Some were very nice ...... two in particular come to
    mind one of whom I have become very close friends with over the
    last year. 
    
    Being single is not all fun and games as a responsible adult. Thank
    God I am irresponsible ... ;-) ......... But with some effort and
    logical planning anyone can meet any number of people, the more
    you meet the greater the odds become on meeting someone you may
    want to be with for an extended period of time or longer ........
    
    Samurai_Writer

    
   
    Sami,
    
    I too am a divorced mother of one.  When I knew that it was all
    about to happen, I was working here at DEC.  A friend introduced
    me to the SINGLES file and that was my break out!!!  It was amazing
    at the responses.  I was after_worked_for_a_drink and lunched out
    after three weeks.  Two out of 30+ were of any interest.  One is
    the one I'm still with.  I was not "looking" for another relationship
    so soon after MY divorce, but I certainly wanted to get back into
    the mainstream and it was the only avenue I had at the time.
    
    This network that we have at Digital, for instance, is probably
    one of the best ways to meet people.  There are PARTY conferences
    and FRIENDS files.  There also must be group gatherings in your
    area.  Whatever your interest can be found in the NOTES conference
    here.  Many of my friends have met new people thru these.
    
    If you have an outgoing personality and are friendly with a sense
    of humor, that will attract a like personality.  If you are shy,
    then break that.  Find a babysitter and go do something you've never
    done before just because it sounds like it might be fun....and do
    it often.  The kids are great, but Mom's need fun tooooo!!!
    
    Cheryl 
   

  
    
    I, too, don't suggest putting in an ad of your own in the SINGLES
    file but I do encourage you to ANSWER other ads that are already
    there!
    
    I met my fiance that way.  He received around 45 replies and mine
    was the only one he answered.  (Well, actually he answered one other
    but it only went on for a day or so.)  I was the only one he met.
    
    Sure, I'd bet that it would be hard to answer all the replies that
    would come in if you placed an ad of your own in the SINGLES file.
    And it would be hard to tell -  -  number of people that "sorry,
    I'm not interested".  BUT, in answering an ad, there's nothing to
    lose, everything to gain.
    
    I really encourage this because it must really be hard for a divorcee
    to start dating again.  Meeting over the terminal allows you to
    get to know this person and takes all the nervousness out of it!
    It allows you to be yourself 100%.  It's not always easy to do this
    face to face with someone!
    
    After I answered Tom's note we had corresponded *alot* over 2 weeks.
    When we finally met in person I felt I really new him! 
    I wasn't even nervous about this blind date!  (well, I wasn't until
    I got into the parking lot of the restaurant we met at!  :-))  AND, our
    conversation flowed as easily as we talked, face to face, as it did
    over the computer.  IT WAS GREAT!!!
    
    If you do decide to answer some of the ads in the SINGLES file,
    I would recommend that you don't speak with the person over the
    phone and I strongly recommend you meet him somewhere.  
    
    Hope you try it! 
    
    Also, (sorry for my rambling on) it's not true that you only meet
    DECies there.  I know people whose roommates use the computer, I
    replied to a few for my girlfriend, and (oh ya!!!) I'm a temp!
    
    What ever you decide, best of luck! 
    
    Denise
    
    

                         Some thoughts to think about
    
    Any man who has to ask for advice probably isnt married.
    
    Advice is like mushrooms. The wrong kind can prove fatal.
    
    You sometimes profit from the advice you dont take.
    
    When offering helpful advice, make it a small helping.
    
    If you can separate good advice from bad advice, you really don't need
    any advice.
    
    Free advice is often overpriced.
    
    Some of the most expensive advice that most of us ever had was free.
    
    It seems the only thing that isnt increased in cost is free advice.
    
    Doctors and lawyers are always giving fee advice.
    
    Too many people are cheerful givers only when they get a chance to hand
    out free advice.
    
    
    
    
                                Ray
    

    You forgot that it is the receiver of free advice who has the choice
    of litening to and accepting or ignoring it.
    
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