Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Colleen,
    
    Your story sounds so familiar....  I have no easy answers - nobody
    can.  However, in a situation like yours, there's always more to
    it than meets the eye.  Something was very wrong with your
    relationship, only it was not obvious to you (or to either of you).
    His walking out on you is a symptom of something deeper.  His refusal
    to talk about it means he feels guilty.
    
    It's easy to assign all the blame to "the other woman".  It makes
    you feel good to do so.  But it also keeps you from analyzing just
    what was wrong that caused him to throw away 11 years of marriage.
    Unfortunately, his choice means that he has given up on you - he
    may feel he has no incentive to try to work things out - the other
    woman has given him hope and excitement.  What he may not realize
    is that, a few months down the road, she may be gone and he'll be
    left with NOTHING.  It happens.  But HE has to believe that the
    marriage is worth fighting for (in a positive sense).  You can't
    do it alone.

    Try to get him to join you in counselling.  It may not help, but
    it can't hurt.  Consider separate counselling, where he talks to
    the counselor without you present - perhaps he will open up to the
    counselor in a way he is unable to with you.
    
    Note 25 has more commentary on divorce.  You may find it useful.

    					Steve

    
    Take care of your[self] as best as possible.  Friends really can
    help right now.  Lean on them for support and for that all important
    shoulder to cry on.  If you are close to family and [religion] use
    them as well.  Don't try and carry it all on your own.  And don't
    make any other major changes or decisions in your life right now.
    
    Remember.  It hurts.  It should hurt.  You are only human.  You
    are not the only one who has/is gone thru this.  Some take a long
    time to heal, others longer.  There is no remedy, or easy cure even
    though you wish you could go to sleep and wake up the next day and
    have it be gone.  The pain will be there tommorrow.  Somedays it
    is worse, other days not so worse.
    
    Healing is not a steady [straight line] process but one of valleys
    that have their ups and their downs.  The good news IS.  You will
    HEAL.  You WILL GET BETTER.  It is just going to take time.
    
    Breaking up a long term relationship [for whatever the reason] is
    painfull.  When it involves another person it seems to have a greater
    impact because it cuts to the bone of your own self-esteem.  Like
    there is something wrong with you because of what has happened.
    
    You are not the reason he has left for another woman.  He is.  I
    know that is probable little consolation to you today.  I feel sad
    for you.  Just know that although you feel such a big chunk of you
    has been removed it is not all of you.  You will mend and better
    again.
    
    Bill

	Let yourself cry. It does help to get it all out. I went through
       this feeling very heavily when my marriage of nearly 15 years
       broke up. There was a time I couldn't work on anything that
       required quiet thought cause I'd start crying right at my desk.

       You will feel awful but it does pass (mostly). Call EAP and get
       counseling. Even if you don't agree with what they tell you it
       gives you a place to rant and rave and not bore your friends to
       death with how you feel. It wasn't all your fault or all his
       fault, it took both of you. Learn to accept that maybe you could
       have done things differently but you didn't and you'll know
       better next time.

       Most of all, know that it's not because you have no value as a
       person. It's tough, I know, my husband left me for a girl 17
       years younger than me and then had the gall to tell me what a
       fine person I was. It hurts when you get slapped in the face even
       if it's only metaphorically.

       You'll do your crying and it'll seem like it will never end but
       it does. One day you just wake up and realise that life goes on.
       You can let this ruin your life or you can start over. It's your
       choice. liesl

    
    I haven't been in this situation (thank God) so I cannot speak from
    experience......
    
    Just wanted to say how sorry I am and to give some sympathy for
    the intense pain you must be feeling. Any words like "It will get
    better eventually", though true, must seem like platitudes to you
    at the moment. Take it a day at a time, and always feel free to
    write/ask for support.
             
    Abigail
    
    

    re 1
    
    	I remember still (very vividly) the shock I felt when my ex wife
    came home and told me she was leaving. No reason, just bye. I pleaded
    with her for an answer... I thought everything was perfect.(it wasn't)
    She informed me she found another person to share her life with.
    
    	For two years I suffered.... At first there were so many thoughts
    running through my mind. I felt rejected. I felt like dirt. The
    list goes on. I thought my life would be better if it was over.
    
    	It took me a long time to get over it (No ! you never get ove
    it) But one day I woke up and realised noone could change my life
    if not myself. I went to a therapist. She was unbelievable. Not
    because of what she did for me, but because of what she allowed
    me to do. She allowed me to grow by seeing myself as I really am.
    
    	I wish you could believe me when I say it does get better. I
    searched for so long to find reasons, sanity, and peace. I searched
    for someone to fill the void. 
    
    	Then I met someone. (when I was strong enough) I looked back
    at all I went through. I looked back at where I could have changed.
    No I am married to her. I have never been so happy or lucky. 
    
    	But it could not have been so if I did not go through all I
    did. The object is growth. And I now see there is a lifetime to
    grow.
    
    	Seek therapy. (write me if you want recommendations) And seek
    help from all of us. We are all here and always will be.
    My shoulder is always here.... use it.
    
    
    TPLVAX::WHITEWAY
    
    
    
    

    Colleen,
    
    You are not alone.  So many of us have gone through the same kind
    of experiences that you are going through now.  It happened to me
    after almost 13 years of marriage.  And, it doesn't just happen
    *suddenly*.  Signs are there, but they are compromised or overlooked.
    
    My advice to you echoes what's been said before.  Take one day at
    a time.  Go see a good therapist and learn and grow from this
    experience.  It's a good time to learn to understand and love yourself
    and make yourself independent and strong.
    
    I did two things that helped.  I went to the library and read every
    book I could get my hands on about divorce and separation.  There
    are so many good ones.  I also kept a journal -- just poured my
    emotions and feelings out on paper -- it REALLY helps and then you
    can go back and read your entries and see how you really are
    progressing as time goes on.
    
    It takes a long time to heal.  The first step is to accept the
    situation the way it is -- not to blame yourself or anyone else.
    It certainly is like a death.  You go through the different phases
    of shock, denial, false-hope.  And it is an up and down scale. 
    You'll feel better one day and worse the next.  But, you CAN do
    it.  You CAN come out of this stronger and a better person than
    you were before.  
    
    Lean on your friends and family.  Have a strong network of loving
    support.  Cry it out and allow yourself to feel all those emotions.
    
    I remember writing in my journal: "Will I ever be happy again?"
    The answer is YES.  I'm about to become engaged to a wonderful man
    I met after I went through all the phases needed to heal and grow.
    We, who have gone through what you are going through now, feel empathy
    with you.  We do CARE.
    
    Hang in there and you'll eventually see the light at the end of
    the tunnel.
    
    Best of luck to you.
    
    Helaine

Colleen,
    
    I have had a similar experience.  My husband and I woke up one morning,
    got ready for work, made plans for that nite and while I was at
    work he moved out.  I came home, went into the closet to change
    for our plans that nite and then noticed that all his clothes were
    gone, as well as his other personal belongings.  No note, no
    forewarning at all.  I literally fell apart.  A week later he called
    to tell me that although he loved me, he had decided that he did
    not want the responsibility of anyone in his life.  We had been
    attempting to get a house and lost our deposit, and he then wanted
    me to go to HIS lawyer for a divorce.
    
    I begged him to see a counselor, I asked him if being apart for
    a while would help but he wouldn't hear of anything - he just wanted
    it ended.  I suffered from anxiety attacks for at least 6 months
    afterward and did go to therapy.
    
    The one thing that I advise is to be sure to get your own lawyer.
    Once you do that take your time.  I did not want the divorce and
    had every intention of contesting it.  After alot of therapy I finally
    realized that even if I contested it that he would not be comming
    back as he broke off all contact completely.  What I did do was
    to go ahead with most of the paperwork but would not go to court
    right away.  All this happened in 1985 however I did not go into
    court for the official divorce until 1987.  
    
    The important thing is to take care of yourself first.  I saw a
    therapist for at least a year and I honestly believe that through
    her help I gained alot of strength not only to go on with my life
    but to go after the things Id always wanted for myself.  I was
    constantly wondering what I had done wrong - but she made me realize
    that it wasn't me with the "problem" it was my husband.  
    
    Lean on your friends when you need them.  I couldn't have gotten
    thru this without the help and support of many of my friends.
    Ultimately it was my manager at work that pulled me into his office
    as a friend and gave me the "kick in the butt" that I needed to
    get on with my life.  He sat me down and told me that I was blaming
    myself for something I had no control over and that by doing that
    I was failing myself.  He was right.  I started to take care of
    myself better and 2 years later when I was ready and strong enough
    to get through it, I went to court.  I'll never understand why it
    happened the way it did.  I honestly believe that he must have been
    struggling with something he just couldn't tell me and I honestly
    don't believe that he'll be able to handle any kind of responsibility
    until he can deal with it - but Ive also stopped believing that
    it was me who was to blame for his insecurities.  
    
    Im older and stronger and much more independent.  Ive realized dreams
    and goals I never thought I would.  I guess what Im trying to say
    is that what your going thru is extremely painful.  I'll never forget
    those days because they hurt so very much.  Take your time, don't
    let anyone rush you into doing anything you are not ready for, and
    most importantly take care of yourself both physically and mentally.
    
    If you need any support whatsoever or if you just need to talk please
    contact me.  Sometimes it help to talk to someone who understands
    what you're going thru.
    
    Best Wishes.
    Maureen
    UPOVAX::Becker
    

Reply to all

I just wanted to take a minute to thank each and every one of you for all of 
the support you have given me.  I  have gotten many reply's in the mail as 
well as this conference.  I can't believe how kind people can be to other 
people in times like this and they don't even know each other.  I do have a 
lawyer and I am going to counceling.  So is my son.  I am getting stronger 
every day and I am now focusing on ME and my SON and our well being.  I'm at 
the point now where yes I'm still hurt but I'm also mad now.  I'll go through 
all kinds of emotions with this but I will also survive.  I feel like I"m 
starting a new life now.  I know that it is definately over - he keeps telling 
my son how much he loves this woman and he plans on marrying her.  I wish he 
would not say those things to my son.  In any case I am doing much better and 
I know I'll be a better person in the long run after it's all done with.  
Thanks so much again to each and every one of you for your kindness and if I 
need to talk I will call you.

/Colleen

"he keeps telling my son how much he loves this woman and he plans on marrying
her.  I wish he would not say those things to my son."

Why?  I'm curious as to your reasons...

Jim. 

    Bravo, Colleen!!
    
    /Charlotte

    
    
    Collen, much of what I could say has been said already.  Isn't it
    ironic that something this painful, this devastating, happens to
    so many people, every day?   
    
    Please, Please, read the book Crazy Time.  I promise it will be
    of great help to you.  How To Survive the Loss of a Love is also
    a wonderful book, but I must warn you that it is very painful to
    read, and you may want to postpone this one until you are a little
    more healed.
    
                     Deb (who went thru Crazy Time herself, after 10
                          years of marriage.  Still amazed that I sur-
                          vived, and actually grew from the experience!)
    
     

    re: .11
    
    I would guess because it appears to invalidate or minimize the
    value of any relationship between the child's parents.  Makes
    his mother look bad.
    
    On the other hand, however, it may be valuable to the child to
    realize that his father's motives aren't whimsical, and that
    his father is (in his own eyes, anyway) moving toward an
    important loving relationship.  It might be nice if the Dad
    said something nice about the Mom, too, when he's explaining
    about the importance of the other woman. (i.e., "Your Mom's a
    fine woman...", whatever)  It's a pretty sensitive situation,
    and ought to be carefully balanced.

    
  if we teach our children reality;
    	love doesn't last forever
    	it's not important that you find one person and settle down
    forever
    	it's ok to fall out of love
    	it's ok to move on and have new relationships
    	don't promise anyone you'll "love them forever cus ya don't
    know"
    	don't let anyone promise you that they'll love you forever
    	cus they don't know
    	life is a series of relationships that last various lengths;
    	enjoy them
    	when a relationship is over just move on, get strength from
    your friends, and  find new relationships, a new lover

    	if we stop filling our childrens minds with myths and fairy
    tales that will only "devastate" them, make them neurotic, and
    cost them a fortune in counseling bills....
    	if we teach them how to stand on their own and make their
    own commitments to themselves
    	if we teach them that they can be happy and fullfilled just
    by pursueing their own dreams...wether they have a relationship
    that lasts 2 years or 20 or until they die....
    
    	perhaps, then, our children will not need to be so "devasted"
    by these "trajedies"
    	perhaps, then, they will be emotionally stronger, happier
    and more fullfilled than we seem to be capable of....
    
    re: 0
    as sorry as i am that you are devasted by this tragedy....
    i think the real tragedy is NOT that he left you
    but that none of us were ever taught how to deal with the
    inevitable.....    

    people do change
    people do stop loving
    people do grow and move on
    now it's time for you to grow and move on....
    good luck
    
    

    Re: .15
    
    Rik,
    
    I know that you see things from a different perspective than most
    of us, but saying that "change is inevitable" isn't an excuse for
    cruelty.  If two people have made a commitment to each other and
    to their relationship, it is incumbent on each of them to let the
    other know immediately if the relationship is in trouble.  If the
    communication is there, and both partners honestly work at trying
    to keep the relationship going, and it still fails, then indeed
    one must just walk away with one's head held up high.  But nobody
    deserves the treatment Colleen received.
    
    					Steve

Thanks Steve.  I appreciate your input.  If I HAD KNOWN Really that something 
was very wrong I WOULD OF DEFINATELY (I'm not yelling only stressing here) 
tried to make this marriage work.  There is no if's and's and but's about it.  
Yes, maybe it was coming and building up - but he "Led me to believe" that 
everything was OK.  He told me only 3 months ago (give or take a few weeks) 
that he "Had no feelings" for this woman because I asked him if he did because 
he was acting strangly towards her.  He told me that he "loved me" and that 
she didn't "hold a candle to me".  I believed him.  I trusted him.  I loved 
him.  If I knew it was in trouble for real - I would of taken care of it.  HE 
wouldn't let me know.  In anycase, I am getting stronger every day.  It's been 
21 days now and the hurt is still there yes, but I"m not going to sit around 
anymore and mourn.  I'm starting my new life now and moving on to bigger and 
better things.  I have decided he is not worthy of me.  If some of you knew 
some of the things I did for him over the years you would agree I'm sure.  I'm 
finding out now that basically, I grew up and he didn't.  I see the lack of 
communication or the want to communicate.  I see that all he wanted to do was 
find "Excitement" - boy is he going to be in for some "real excitement" in the 
coming months.  Let them have each other is what I feel now that I'm getting 
stronger, there is someone else out there in the world for me and YES I 
believe it will be forever.  Again, Thank you all - I will keep in touch with 
you.

/Colleen

    	Colleen,
    
    	You sound very strong and self-assured at this time.  Good for
    	you!  Please don't let feelings of self-doubt or unworthiness 
    	creep in, something which can often be easier said than done.
    	I, too, was in a relationship that seemed healthy and good up
    	until moments before we split up.  That morning we made love
    	truly feeling we deeply cared for each other.  That afternoon
    	I offered him an exit door, and he walked through it.  Not a
    	single warning bell, not a belligerent word exchanged.
    
    	I don't understand what happens when it ends this way.  Your
    	husband could very well have believed what he said three weeks 
    	ago about loving you and how this other woman didn't hold a
    	candle to you.  Something changed within him though, perhaps
    	he finally acknowledged and accepted his own feelings.  What-
    	ever the case, Colleen, he is setting you free.  You mentioned
    	there've been many things over the years that you did for him,
    	and how you feel he doesn't deserve your goodness.  If that's 
    	how you feel, and obviously it is, then embrace those feelings 
    	and carry forward with the knowledge you have a lot to offer 
    	to someone who will appreciate what you give and what you are, 
    	someone who won't be dishonest with you.
    
    	Take care!  Every day is an opportunity to grow stronger and
    	happier in your new life.  I wish you all the best!
    
    						Carla
    

    Colleen, Keep it going.  Your doing great, there are going to be
    days, but keep the thoughts that you have now, and you'll be that
    much further ahead.  
    
    Wishing you the best.... In EVERYTHING..........
    
    Helena

    hi colleen....
    several months ago, i asked for help from the readers of mennotes.
    the replies i got, both on the notefile and privately, were very
    similar to many of those i read here.  it amazes me (why?) that
    friends whom we have never met can offer us such wonderfully helping
    hands.  
    the support offered is especially helpful because it is not colored
    by personal attachments.  i particularly found useful the
    recommendation that i read several self-help books.  i read not
    just one, and i offer to you the suggeston that you find a few to
    read.  they do not all offer the same advise, or information, but
    by taking your time, reading several, you will find situations and
    circumstances that particularly apply to YOU.  these books are the
    ones i read:
    CRAZY TIME (surviving divorce) by Abigail Trafford
    FEEL FREE by David Viscott, M.D.
    OUT OF APPLES by Lee Schnebly
    and THE BOYS AND GIRLS BOOD ABOUT DIVORCE by Richard A. Gardner,
    M.D.
    
    the best to you, Colleen, you're gonna make it!
    tony

    Colleen,
    
    I second the recommendation of _How to Survive the Loss of
    a Love_.  Also when you're ready have a look at _How to
    Forgive Your Ex-Husband and Get On With Your Life_.  Having
    been through the same sort of thing 4 years ago I have
    managed to work through all of the anger and pain.  One
    thing that I noticed was I was still angry 2 years after
    we parted ways.  The anger was keeping me tied emotionally
    to my ex.  Until I could let go of the anger, I couldn't
    get on with my life.  Well, I finally did let go and am
    truly free of him at last.
    
    Hang in there.  We're all pulling for you.
    
    Nanci

    Colleen,           
                       
    Like the other folks who answered your note, I can say, "it happened to
    me too."  It wasn't abrupt like your situation.  We went to counselling
    three different times over a couple of years.  The result...it was
    clear were going to get divorced.  We even came to the unmitigated
    conclusion in the therapists office.  Its a bit comical to recall the
    scene today.       
                       
    As for your son and his father, I have no idea what sort of
    relationship the two share.  I had and have a strong bond with my son,
    and I hated to hear some of the things that his mom told him, and yet 
    some of those very things brought him joy, which means that my son did
    not share my feelings for his mom.  I suspect that your son may be    
    similar in that his feelings for his father probably vary dramatically
    from yours.  I found that I had to work at distinguishing between     
    what I felt and what my son felt.  I also found that the biggest
    enemy was confusion rather than pleasant feelings or unpleasant
    feelings.  My son seemed wonderfully adept at expressing his emotions
    and coping when so allowed.  He showed stress when the situation
    or the messages were confusing based on his concept of the world
    and how he was at that time interpreting the inputs.

    Just a few observations from my own situation.
    
    Craig