Conference quark::human_relations-v1

If you've been in a relationship with someone, and you decide to end it,
I think you owe it to each other to let it be known why you are ending it.
You shouldn't say you are going to call unless you will (although
sometimes you have every intention to when you say it).

RE: -.1
It sounds like you assume that people break up relationships with
you because of you (you want to know what you did that hurt him
so that you can experience personal growth). Perhaps it is
the person ending the relationship that has the problems and
just can't continue it or put it into words (although he/she should
make the effort).

I want to know if people think after 1 date you should say, "I'm sorry, but
I'm not interested in going out with you again." It justs sounds bad so I
haven't said it; and, I have broken off communications with a few women this way
(I have felt guilty for not saying anything; but, I'm not sure if I'd feel
better or worse after breaking it off explicitly). We haven't had a
relationship and I haven't made promises of calling again.

Chuck

    It happens the other way around too. I dated a woman for several
    weeks and we finally seemed to be connecting when she started being
    "busy" when I asked for dates. I asked if I should be getting a
    hint or ? and the reply was "no dont forget about me I just feel
    uncomfortable". I accepted that as a request for space and dident
    ask for a few weeks but did keep(tho less often) contact with her.
    After several weeks I decide to ask again this time I got a big
    NO! not even nice. I said I was interested in what she was
    uncomfortable about and if I did something to make her feel that
    way to which I recieved "leave it at uncomfortable!".
    To this point I had only been trying to cultivate a friendship so
    it left me totaly confused. Sorry I know this dosent help you much
    but it does show that it does happen to others.
    
    thanks for letting me air that it has bothered me alot lately.
    
    -j
    

    
    
    	It's not just guys who do this....
    
    	Ok, I'll admit it, I've done this.. Just broken off communication
    in hopes that things would just go their seperate ways.. I don't
    like it but I DO hate saying "Sorry, just not interested anymore.."...
    I honestly don't know which is worse.. Personally, I've had both
    done TO me and I STILL don't know which is worse.. I guess I deal
    with both with a bit of a shrug and go on with my life...
    
    	Recently, I had to tell a person VERY clearly that I didn't
    want any more communicationw with them for a while till I got over
    some feelings for them. It was NOT easy and I feel like shit about
    it cuz I hate hurting someone but this time my pain too precidence
    and I did it.. I still don't like it..
    
    						mike

    Good question Wendy.  This has also happened to me more times than
    I care to remember.  The scenerio goes like this, 'guy comes on
    strong, I try to go slow, trying not to get too emotionally involved
    until I feel he's being somewhat sincere.  finally, I let him know
    that I like him, whatever, and shortly after that he leaves.  and
    they never seem to be able to say why they are not interested anymore'
                                                                 
    Actually, at one point I thought about sending out surveys to all
    the men who 'changed their mind', to try to piece together WHY?
    (of course I was never really serious about this :-))
    
    What really bugs me is that in some of these cases I let the guy
    know that honestly was important to me, that I would rather have
    the truth and possibly be very hurt for a short while, than to
    either be given no explanation or be lied to.  Still it made no
    difference.
    
    I have specifically asked several men why they tend not to be honest
    with a woman when they decide to break it off.  They have said things
    like, 'I don't want to hurt her', 'I didn't think she really wanted
    to know', 'its's hard for me to be so blunt', and simply, 'I'd rather
    keep her wondering what went wrong'.
    
    Gosh, it's hard to want to get involved with men anymore, when you
    have to deal with this junk. 
    
    By the way, I do know that it's not only men who act this way. 
    I've know women who treat men the same way.  Too bad these types
    don't stick with each other, and give us 'honest' folks a break.
    
    Ginny

    
    	I think it has to do with the general difficulty of expressing
    feelings. It's *not easy* to say what you really feel, being completely
    honest about it. And the difficulty may not be in expressing whatever
    it is *to another*, but rather in expressing it (at the same time) to
    yourself. Peoples egos wont let this happen...
    
    	An example I can think of might be in the context of a blind
    date. You think you're pretty "hip" or whatever and am able to see
    someone in terms of their personhood - Oh, physical appearance doesnt
    mean that much to you! SO, you meet this person in person and you
    immediately have a feeling of dissappointment for some reason.
    Conversation was great, intelligence was there, sense of humor -
    you did have a good time! But you inately feel "No, not the one"...
    
    	What are you gonna do now, say, when the one you met is
    inquiring about what you thought? Just tell 'em outright "I didnt
    find you attractive enough"!?! To which they'll reply "Then what
    was all this bullsh*t about you telling me how you always look
    at the person *first*"? You open up the opportunity to find out
    something about *yourself*, perhaps, something your ego just cannot
    admit.                                                   
    	
    	Rather than going through the pain of realizing certain truths
    about your needs and/or perceptions, it's easier to just blow it
    off. And, as we all are aware of, the easiest thing to do is not
    necessarily the healthiest. For ourselves or others. 
    
    	Joe Jas

    In my opinion, it's better to say it or to hear it than to be left
    wondering. I believe it's a matter of considering the other person
    more than a male/female issue. The other side, is considering
    ourselves. If I were to break off a relationship, I'd want a clean
    break which is clear on both sides; not an ending where people are
    left guessing. That's mean. Let's hear it for COURTESY!
    
    

    This happened two-way in the last relationship I was in. We hit
    it off really well from the start, saw each other for about three
    months, and all of a sudden, it was like a switch being thrown -
    she "didn't need a relationship", I wasn't feeling anything. Looking
    back, I realize that all the things we had in common (a lot) didn't
    overcome the deep differences between us. It wouldn't have worked,
    and I think we both realized it emotionally and subconsciously
    before ever getting into a discussion on it. The last time we saw
    each other, we were more 'strangers' to each other than when we
    met. What bothers me is that it *didn't* hurt me like some other
    breakups. Or maybe I'm still numb. I don't know.
    
    

    re .5
    
    I don't think an explanation is necessary after just one, or a few
    dates.  The first few dates give both parties a chance to decide
    if they're interested in continuing or not.  If after one date,
    or even several, I start to get the cold shoulder from a guy, I
    don't spend alot of time wondering about it.  I just figure we didn't
    hit it off.
    
    But if it has developed into something intimate (not necessarily
    meaning sex), and some time has passed, then yes, I feel an explanation
    would be beneficial.
    
    Ginny

    Sometimes I think it's just too darned difficult to say
    something negative in a tactful way.  How do you tell
    someone that they let people walk all over them and you
    need someone more assertive, or that they're irresponsible,
    or not intelligent enough, or too intense, or too laid back,
    or that you doubt their honesty, or you just don't "hit it
    off" anymore, or that you've suddenly started seeing them
    as a jerk?  I ain't easy.  Those things seem judgmental -
    and they may be perfectly suited to someone else, so how do
    you tell them what you don't like, without it appearing
    critical?  I'm not sure it's a good idea to go into too
    much detail as far as "why".  I guess it depends on what
    it is.  But I do agree that you
    shouldn't just leave someone hanging - at least tell them
    you don't want to continue the relationship, and let them
    know what's going on.
            

    re .4
    
    The people who fall into your scenario (my opinion) are turned on
    by the chase and turned off by the catch. So, once they catch what
    they are after they move on to another chase. These people do not
    really get emotionally involved, they just do what it takes to succeed.
    Without emotional involvement they do not consider the feelings
    of the other person. I for one would like to be able to see this
    type of person comming so that I can get out of the way.
     
    Sue
    
    

    Five years ago I met a man, fell hook, line and sinker like never
    before or since.  Things were great.  We had same interests, I was
    included in all family activities like I was one of them, we talked
    of things in the future.....He was to come for dinner Christmas
    Eve and showed up in August!  Needless to say dinner was a tad cold.
    
    For weeks I constantly beat myself up asking "what did I do wrong?"
    It took a while, but I finally realized I didn't do anything wrong.
    The August he showed up I asked him what happened.....he couldn't
    (or wouldn't) tell me.  He just kept saying "I don't know.  It's
    nothing you did."  About a year ago (he breezes in a couple times
    a year) he did say that he felt he was getting too close, it scared
    him and he bolted.  My response, "It was your loss."  He agreed.
    
    Hang in there Wendy.  It doesn't necessarily get easier, but you
    learn the "warning signals" and how to cope a little better if and
    when it does happen again.
    
    P.
    

    Re: .12
    
    I admit this is probably a naive question, but what are the
    "warning signals"?  This is a serious question from someone
    trying to learn from others.

    One would be if you find your self making mental excuses for
    things, or if his behavior starts to change sharply from what
    it had been earlier in your courtship.
    
    Bonnie

    RE: .13
    
    I think warning signals can be different for each of us.  In this
    case there really weren't any.  I think that's why it took so long
    to recover from the pain.  A common one though is "I'm tired"....seems
    to be an excuse, sometimes, for not wanting to talk, react or partake
    in the relationship at that particular time.  Now this doesn't mean
    because he/she says "I'm tired" you're on your way out, but when
    it becomes a chronic phrase.....I'd try to talk about it.
    
    P.
    

Re:  .0


	I too wondered about this some time ago, and somewhere in this file
is a note to that effect.  After enough occurrences of this, I simply started
accepting it.  There's nothing else you can do.  You can't change folks.
One thing which *might* help is that it got easier to take with repetition,
and now it hardly bothers me.  This is assuming that the relationship is still
young -- if you've been seeing someone for some time, that's another story!
I've never had it happen to me from someone I'd been seeing for some time.
Probably because being big on communication, I *try* to be with people like
myself.  Although it might be hard, you *know* you have to say *something*.


	What else can ya do?


Brian

    re .16
    
    What else can you do?  Call them on it.  
    
    I'm currently dating someone who is trying to break this
    "love 'em and leave 'em" pattern.  He has recognized it
    in himself and has been very honest with me about it.
    Naturally this doesn't make me all that comfortable but
    forwarned is forarmed.  I'm taking it one step at a time 
    and _very_ slowly.  I'm also not putting all of my eggs
    in one basket, if you know what I mean (;^).
    
    I honestly think some people are not self-analytical
    enough to recognize this kind of pattern ( if it is
    a pattern).  I think it would be useful if they were
    aware of a potential pattern (which they may or may not
    want to break).  Of course in order to make it a
    constructive situation you'd have to be very careful about
    how you phrased this.  (Are you aware of...?  I felt this
    way about what you did..., etc.)
    
    Nanci

Some people - not just men or just women - have such a difficult time
dealing with confrontation, I feel, because they know it will cause pain/
distress for the other person.  For these individuals , it is easier to walk 
away from the situation and never look back - or look back a *long* time 
afterward - than it is to face the other person.  Actually *seeing* the pain 
caused by oneself is difficult to deal with at times. 

Sometimes words are exchanged and then the feelings don't cooperate in the 
longrun.  It's difficult to retract words, once spoken...they simply aren't
forgotten, even if asked to "forget I ever said that".....
Easier said than done.

There have been *many* times when things seemed to be going smoothly, and the
*other party* vanished into the woodwork.  Amazing how quickly someone can leave
an active relationship with just a little creative diversion.

I feel as though individuals, who are *unable* to face confrontation, suffer
silently, just as the *injured* party.  ( emotionally stressful )  It takes
a lot of energy, trying to work up the courage to confront someone and the 
longer it's delayed, the greater the consequences..... thus *escape* mode looks
better than ever.

    
Mary Beth    

    i'm an expert at avoiding confrontations, mary beth, and *suffer
    silently*.  i'm slowly learning how to stand up and speak my mind,
    but the effect that may have on the person i am speaking to, is
    *still* a difficult thing for me to confront.  i *know* that when
    the confrontation *finally comes* (as it always does) the pain is
    worse than if it were dealt with honestly and early on.  i even
    understand that *not* confronting it, is intself a form of dishonesty.
    
    so, to you and to others who have dealt with this part of my learning
    how to be stronger, i say please forgive me my fault, and i will
    try very hard not to hurt anyone again.
    
    i am *glad* the confrontation *finally* happened...and that the
    issues are resolved, but i am very unhappy about the pain it caused.
    
    tony
    

     Thanks for all your responses...it's refreshing to know I'm not the 
     only one who has experienced this type of rejection.  I try to spend
     my time with people who are as open and honest as I am but I'm finding
     that people have an easier time honestly expressing their positive 
     feelings than their negative ones.  I agree with several of you who said
     that the person is afraid of hurting the other person involved so they
     take the easy way out hoping that the other person  will "get the 
     message."  I guess I must be dense because the last time this happened
     to me I was worried sick about the guy I was involved with.  I thought
     something had happened to him or a member of his family as he wasn't
     in work for several days and didn't answer the messages I left on his
     answering machine at home.  BTW, this wasn't someone that I had gone 
     out with just once or twice but someone that I felt somwehat "connected"
     to.

     The lesson I am learning is to take things slow, postpone intimacy both
     physical and emotional,  and not divulge too much about how you feel 
     until you are sure that the other person is committed to the 
     relationship.  However there is still no guarantee that the person 
     won't just fade into the woodwork for whatever reason.  I guess it's
     all just part of being single.  I won't stop seeking the type of
     relationship where the two people involved can be open and honest
     about ALL aspects of the relationship (even the ending).
     
       - wendy -

.20>     The lesson I am learning is to take things slow, postpone intimacy both
.20>     physical and emotional,  and not divulge too much about how you feel 
.20>     until you are sure that the other person is committed to the 
.20>     relationship.  
    

    
    Wendy (or anyone else :-)...)... how can you be sure of this.. my
    last relationship took 2.5 years to  determine he wasn't committed
    to the relastionship....  
    
    I think you'll never know if you keep waiting....
    
    

Re: .20

>     The lesson I am learning is to take things slow, postpone intimacy both
>     physical and emotional,  and not divulge too much about how you feel 
>     until you are sure that the other person is committed to the 
>     relationship.  

For me, this isn't a good approach.  What happens when *both* people are 
taking this approach?  Lot's of guessing, insecurities, assumptions, etc.
Like trying to build a house on an unseen foundation.

My philosophy is that as long as two people have the facilities to talk
to (read "communicate with") each other, why should they stay in the dark?
I'm WELL aware that not everyone feels that way, and yes, it's easier said
than done.


Re: .21 

My experience indicates exactly the same thing...time guarantees nothing.


.jim

    re .20,.21,.22 -
    
    If you're holding back that much, they why *should* the other person
    ever commit?  What would there be for him/her to commit to?  If
    they _do_ commit to that sort of relationship, then maybe they don't
    _want_ all of you, and then what happens if you give them all of
    you?  Sure, take things slowly, but I'm beginning to wonder how
    you can be sure of another person's commitment to a relationship.
    Sometimes people change, feelings change, and their willingness
    to commit changes.
    I think that open communication is extremely important, including
    letting the other person know if your feelings in any aspect of
    the relationship change.  It's funny the things that people don't
    tell one another, or ask of one another, because they're afraid
    of hurting feelings or being embarrassed, when both parties would
    probably be better off (or even happier) in the long run with more
    openness.
                      
    Why, with so many people out there who want nothing more than
    to be in love with one other person for the rest of their lives,
    is it so difficult to achieve??  Look at the pain people put one
    another through, when they're just trying to find happiness, and
    love.  Maybe it would be easier if people just weren't so scared
    of each other.
    
    Paula

    As a guy who's often experienced the get interested, go steady,
    get bored syndrome, I'd like to speak up.
    
    I think there are at least TWO questions at hand here:
    
    o	What about people that get interested, get you interested,
    	then lose interest and you feel loss?
    
    o	What about people who lose interest and don't have the chutzpah
    	(look it up in your yiddish dictionary!) to at least call
    	and say they're ending the relationship.
    
    I personally have had the experience of losing interest.  It's
    one of the things I'm definitely trying to work on in my life. 
    So I try to be honest quickly and tell people that I've had a track
    record of this, but that I'm trying to learn more about myself and
    get over it.  Then they can choose whether to take the chance or
    not.
    
    For me, it's some sort of fear of intimacy.  I'm quite excited
    about a woman during the pursuit.  Then if things get good, I start
    becoming attracted to other women.  But while the woman is still
    keeping me emotionally at a distance, it's tantalizing and I stay
    extremely interested.
    
    I want to get over this, yes.  I've had some wonderul relationships
    and when they break up I get very sad.
    
    As for not calling, I do try to let the person know I want to end
    it.  Although if it's been just the first date, I admit sometimes I haven't
    called "to say I'm not calling anymore".  But even that bothers
    me.  I think I owe a call, particularly if we said at end of first
    date "I'll give you a call".              
    
    /Eric

    re.20
    Call me stupid ( I probably pay for it too) but I jump in with both
    feet of sorts in every relationship I get into, holding back seems
    like an easy way to miss out on something good.
    
    -j

    
    There are so many different factors involved here, all of them are
    possible, but my most recent experience was with a woman who I was
    automatically attracted to, but didn't let on that I was attracted
    to her, as she was engaged to be married.  Eventually we got to
    know each other (we worked in the same group, not at DEC), and I
    noticed over time that she was attracted to me also.  Eventually
    we hit it off, so to speak, and it was she who did the chasing,
    and saying that she was soon to be disengaged and sending me all
    the signals that said she was really interested.  Well, once I let
    her know how interested I was, that was it, the chase was over,
    and it was time to find another guy to "put on the string."  I was
    really hurting for a while, left wondering what was wrong with me.
    I managed to keep a relationship (friendship) with her, and was
    able to learn a lot about her and understand why she acted the way
    she did.  She was basically a very insecure person with a troubled
    childhood, and she was feeding off other's adulation for her to
    make her feel better about herself, but merely wanted the attention
    and adulation, she had nothing to give.  To state my point, insecurity
    is one of the reasons people behave in this sort of manner, they
    just need to be wanted.  Unfortunately, when they just want to be
    wanted and never think to want someone back, they get bored with
    a person very quickly and forget about him/her.
    
       re (.25)  I know what you mean, I just don't bother if I can't
    go into it 100%, but unfortunately, the fall was that much harder
    as a result.  I still have no regrets though, my recovery wasn't
    too quick, but I recovered 100%, and learned a lot about myself
    and people in doing so.
    
    Dave
    

    re .24
    
    Eric, maybe when you "catch" her, you realize she isn't Ms. Right.
    If she was _really_ the right person for you, you probably wouldn't
    lose interest.  You just don't realize she's not the right one
    during the pursuit.  Why?  I don't know.  If I did, I wouldn't have
    made the same mistake so many times, myself.  (I got to the point
    where I issued warnings, too - made jokes about getting a warning
    label tatooed on my forehead).  When you can visualize the "ideal"
    type of relationship you want (not just the woman), maybe that'll 
    mean you're ready for it, and you'll get that woman you just 
    don't want to let get away.