Conference quark::human_relations-v1

513.0. "What is FREEDOM in life?" by ELMO::COWERN (Thomas) Thu May 12 1988 19:34

	What exactly is freedom? Are we really free? To what extent are
we free? (My questions are designed to stimulate thought). When we marry
we make our spouse #1 in our life (at least for myself). We try to make 
sure that outside intervention does not interfer with our family - by
intervention I mean anything that would impact negatively on the family
unit.
	Quess my REAL question is, do people feel that they are "owned"
by their employer? I don't mean just DIGITAL, but any employer. We
work, we get payed and we go home. At what point does one start to 
lose freedom and start to feel owned by their employer? Business trips,
assigments, standby hours, last minute reports, taking work home and so on.
At what point does that effect the family? (I know there are different
levels for everyone.)

	What I have always heard is that "if you don't like it, find a job
someplace else". I guess that is why people go to work from themselves, 
bounce from job to job or find a way to get independently wealthy. Finding
a job someplace else doesn't help since they too may start feeling they
own you.
	I know I am not being very clear becuase my thoughts are not very
clear. I feel that my job impacts my family negatively and I don't know how
to tell them that I love them very much and I will always do what I can
to be there for them. Sometimes work demands time outside of 8-5 and
it hurts to have to take time way from my family. I am career oriented
and I have the need to support my family - to be the primary money
maker. If my wife made more than me, that would be no problem. I don't
have this male competitive drive to make myself the MAN and her the
wife. We share expenses and responsibilities as equally as we can. Sometimes
my job DEMANDS that I do work outside of 8-5, either here or away on a
business trip. Not often but often enough to make my spouse believe that
she is second.
	I feel that if I push back too hard on my manager that it will
impact my career here. If I push back too little it is seen
as not caring and that I am owned and my family is second. I do push
back but I fear pushing too hard. Not many jobs in this town where if
I choose to leave I could pick up one quickly and get paid comparitively
the same. I don't feel I have an Ace to fall back on should I have to
quit and look for a new company to work for. If I have to quit then I
would feel like I let my family down as I am the primary income maker and
we barely make ends meet now. I have the pressure of making money to
support my family or pushing back too hard (telling my manager how I
feel and that I do not care for their style of management) and risk
being "frozen" in my career path (black listed). This is a real Catch-22.
Also, moving is not an option at time as I am a step-dad (AND I LOVE IT!!!)
and moving to a new city would be difficult with the child. We split the
time he lives with us and his dad 50/50. Moving would affect that 
so that we would have large gaps of time of not having him around. Moving
to a new city would be very difficult for us to do.

	I discovered something wonderful and that is a family. Before I
met my wife, I was single and did exactly what I wanted to do and didn't
have to "be there" for anyone. Then along comes my SO and I slowly
fall in love and make problems that show that I do not care, kind of
letting my actions speak for me. I was brought up to see to it that
I was financially secure and always had a good job. I have always put a
heavy focus on work. Now I have a family and the feeling is that work can
pull me here and there without concern for my family. I have a fear of
not having a source of income. 

	When you are single you have the ability to do as you please and not
have a commitment to anyone. When you have an SO, responsibilities to that
person become very important. You can no longer come and go as you please,
that is if you want that person to stay in your life. As time goes on and 
you decide to get married you are stating that you love this person and that
you will do whatever it takes to support and care for them (that is what it
means to me at least). I feel a couple, especially ones with 
meta-communication, is a very special union in life. Once joined each
part delivers 50% to the "couple" and through the magic of love, 110% is
created - WOW SYNERGY!!! That type of excitment and energy can not be
created on your own.

	I am at the point where it may be too late for my marriage. It has
so much hurt and pain that it may not be repairable. Yes, I have tried
counseling, but to no avail. DIVORCE translates to "death" for me. The
"couple" dies and two individals are parted and all the love and synergy
is flushed away. A terrible thing to lose. I own a very large part of
the problems, "Mr. Loner". Over the years of knowing my wife, she has
taught me how to express feeling and emotions - at her own cost though
through my selfish behavior and lack of feelings. I use to keep my
feelings buried so deep that nothing on earth would touch them. I know
why I buried them and I know why they came back. I know why a part of
her has died and why she no longer wants to be responsible for anyone.

	She has been emotionally beat by my job, by her job, by her
friends and her family. She has given up on all fronts and now only
wants to be responsible for herself and her son. I am willing to let
her go, I have asked her to stay and we have both said to each other to
leave, but we keep coming back. I guess you get to a point where it is
better to let something die and pray that something new will grow out
of the death. What a horrible way to go through life. I feel that if I
am an anchor around her neck then I am not giving her any benefit and
she would be better without ME. The anchor was made over the years. If I
hadn't been so damn irresponsible for my life and how it affected people
around me, that anchor wouldn't exist and we could work out problems
on a day to day basis and not have to work on the past all the time, let
alone problems that arise today.

	As for me, well, I will go on and I will not get involved with anyone
til my life is ready for that. I got involved with my SO when I was still
into being myself and not sharing with others around me. I said I wanted
a relationship but back then my actions said I wanted to be by myself. Today, 
I want to share but the damage has been done. If I had been honest with 
myself and her and looked at my true feelings, what I really wanted, then 
maybe this entire nightmare for her would not have occured. I had to learn 
how to open up my feeling and myself and in the process I was killing someone.

	I grew up and learned how to be an honest human being. I am still 
light years behind her and her convictions (in fact I have never known a 
soul like her and the way she stands by her convictions, come Hell or high 
water). Maybe someday I will return to this plane of existence and 
experience what she has gone through, the pain and the torment of ALWAYS 
trying to do the right thing and NOT backing down and NOT getting any benefit 
from being a GOOD and WONDEFUL person. 

	I tore her down and she gave me chances to rebuild and I would take 
a little more out of the foundation until all those little things would  
cause it to tumble down. It is amasing how many little things can distroy 
a relationship. I love her enough to want her to be happy and if I am
the cause of the pain and if my job has taken ownership of me, then maybe 
she should be away from me. I am not as strong as her, I have fears that 
control me, and if my weakness is killing her, I have no recourse. BTW, 
I have already started to look into a new job.

	She has been supportive in my career and understands the need for
my growth. Over the years business has dented our relationship. Leaving
to a new company would not fix the anger and the pain of the past. I
believe that I have two options: 1) live with the way things are or 2) quit.
Living with the current situation is proof that I am a "weenie" and the
I am owned. Quitting shows that I want to try anew but it doesn't erase
the past.

	Why do people tolerate so much pressure from a external stimuli
to the point that it is killing them or their relationship? Are we 
just scared sheep? Are we conditioned to "fear" our superiors? Open Door 
policy and open communication are only words. In reality when 1 or 2 
people speak up and the others keep their mouths shut, then the 1 or 2 
are burned at the stake for being "rabble rousers". The Open Door policy 
in theory sounds wonderful, but it takes a lot of trust from your superiors 
that it won't be held against you for using it. Even if it is personnal 
in nature and the problem may only effect 1 person.

	I guess I just fall into one of the masses and she rises above
the masses. I am really very insecure about myself and perceptions about
myself and I do not deserve to have a person like my wife in my life. That
is how I feel and God it hurts. If all the pain from the past could
disappear then I would be worthy of her love and companionship. As it
stands, I feel fortunate just to have met her, let alone be married to her.
What happens tomorrow.....?

    
    	I think you have to ask yourself some questions, like do you
    	just want to earn a living at work, or do you want to also be
    	able to enjoy what you do. If the later is your choice, then
    	yes you will have to let the job make some demands on you.
    	There is no free lunch in the work life either. Your wife
    	should understand this, does she expect you to spend the rest
    	of your life doing a job and hating every second of it? If so,
    	then is that being fair and reasonable to you? You on the other
    	hand can control just how much demands the job places on your
    	personal life. If you've let the job get to the point where
    	you must work, say 3 extra hours a day, then do you expect your
    	boss to settle for less. I mean once you set a pattern, everyone
    	will expect it to remain the same. Talk to your boss, tell him
    	your job is doing serious damage to your personal life and you
    	can't go on like that, you have to cut back some. The approach
    	you take can make a big difference, as can your attitude. I
    	noticed you made several references to your "superiors", really?
    	Are they superior to you, if you think that then yes they do
    	own you, you let them! My boss is not superior to me, he just
    	has a different job than me. I see alot of people approach their
    	boss like they were a god, and human nature being what it is,
    	the boss will wallow in it and start to act as such. I am
    	divorced and right after my divorce I burried myself in my job
    	and would think nothing of working 12-16 hours a day. Yes, my
    	boss began to expect it and made sure I had the work to fill
    	it. It wasn't easy to cut back, but it can be done. Will it
    	hurt you, it can, if all you do is suddenly demand your work
    	load be lessened. A 40 hour a week job doesn't develop into
    	80 hours overnight, nor will it go from 80 down to 40 overnight.
    
    	 Talk to your wife, she sounds like a wonerful person. Express
    	to her your fears about the job, ask her to take a part in helping
    	you get back in touch with your family. She may have been hurt
    	by your working habits, but if she sees you are trying to change
    	them, I'm sure she will support you. If she is still with you,
    	then she must still feel something for you, work with her. Pain
    	takes time to lessen, give her the time and show her the effort.
    	Even if starting tommorow you were to work 40 hours a week and
    	no more, your problems will not stop on that day. All wounds
    	take time and care to heal, give her that time and put forth
    	the care....
    
    
    	Best of luck,
    	G_B

As I see it, the major freedom we have is the freedom to set our own
priorities.  Each person can decide what things (career, family,
personal relationships) matter to him/her and prioritize those items.
Major conflicts arise, however, when two important goals conflict.
Most people would like to have a rewarding career AND a satisfying
home life.  However, as in your case, these two goals (or any goals)
can ultimately cause a conflict.

There are two ways in which these conflicts get resolved.  The passive
"solution" is to do nothing and let outside forces control you.  Sooner
or later one the conflicts gets resolved by one party reaching a breaking
point and ending the conflict.  Unfortunately, you sit on the sidelines
watching your own life played out for you.

The more active approach, and more satisfying in my opinion, is for
you to prioritize the compartments of your life, decide just how much
you can or will devote to each, and having made your decisions also have
the strength to follow through.  If you decide that your family is more
important than your career, then you must make it clear to your supervisor
exactly how you feel.  If you have an understanding manager, your problem
may already be solved.  However, if your manager cannot accept your
decision, you must still be prepared to stand your ground.  In the worse
case scenario, you may have to find another job.  Big deal!  The sun
would still rise the next day.  Fortunately, most conflicts get resolved
before the extreme measures are necessary.  However, sometime you must
be prepared to take extreme steps to control your own life.  Fortunately
that is a freedom we do have.

Claude A. Bench

I agree with .2 that you have to set your own priorities. Most bosses will
even tell you to do this. Unfortunately, for me anyway, you come across
folks who will not accept the fact that you've set your family/personal life
above DEC. It can make for a touchy situation and cause some friction. I've
done things both ways. After about 2 years of working 60-70 hours a week
I finally burned myself out and I refuse to ever let that happen again.
Some folks don't take to kindly to that, but it's my life after all,and I've
got to live for today since there are no guarantees on what tomorrow will
bring. 

To answer the question, I do sometimes feel like DEC owns me. But I have 
learned where to draw the line, when I go home at night, I go home at night
period. I would much rather be independantly wealthy so I could spend the 
rest of my daze travelling about, but unfortunately this is reality.
Sigh...it's a no-win situation it seems, and a compromise is the best I can
come up with at the moment. And as Janis Joplin sang:

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"

Jenna

We all have the freedom to choose how to react to the situations that we find
ourselves in, if we let ourselves.  We do not always have the freedom to
determine what situations we find ourselves in.  There are some elements of that
impact on our lives which we have little or no control over, and ther are some
elements we should not have any control over (ie other people). 

Freedom is in the choice to take a demanding job or not; freedom is not in
ignoring the demands of a job without suffering the consequences.

I believe that the greatest obstacle to freedom is ourselves, in what we allow
and disallow ourselves to do, such as not allowing ourselves to show someone
that we care for them.

Just some abstract thoughts...
Jim. 

    One route I've found to getting more free is to accept my own
    validity.  For example, sometimes I do something because it's
    expected.  By doing that, I deny the validity of my real feelings
    about doing that thing.  The times that I say "self, what do you
    really want to do in this situation?", figure out an answer, and
    DO it, I feel more free.  Sometimes that answer, given the other
    factors, is to do what's expected, and sometimes it's not.  But
    I've recognized myself as a valid thinker and feeler, I've listened
    to what I have to say, and I've made my decision.
    
    Thinking creatively and freely and FOR YOURSELF is something our
    society tries like the dickens to train out of us.  Boy does it
    feel good to do it!
    
    Re - deserving another person.  Any person has a choice of whether
    or not they wish to stay with any other person.  Perhaps you don't
    deserve her; perhaps you do.  But don't deny all your goodness -
    if she's as you've painted her, she can see that, and see the
    struggle you're going through, and see value in you.  The trick
    is for you to see it too, and to figure out what you do that you
    value, and do more of it.  And don't be so hard on yourself.
    Changing is not easy.  Do it one hour at a time, one day at a time.
    Sometimes the simple trick of counting to ten before you open your
    mouth really works.  It has helped me.
    
    Take care,
    	Louise