Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    Achhhh !  No one fails... they just have minor setbacks !
    
    Like a co-worker of mine says, and it's marginally related,
    "Show me a 'problem', and I'll show you an opportunity!"
    
    It could probably be summed up with all of the standard cliches,
    like "You learn from your mistakes..." (in which case, as Charlie
    Brown said, I must be the smartest person in the world!), but it
    boils down to the same thing: It's simply a matter of how you look
    at it.
    
    If you can simply keep in perspective that, in order to grow, one
    MUST make mistakes, which is part of the learning process, then the
    mistakes that you do make are relegated to a level of relative
    unimportance.
    
    Say, for example, that you missed on you goalsheet.  Well hopefully,
    you would analyze why you missed the goals and use this to prevent
    this from happening again... minor setback.
    
    Perhaps you took an "F" on an exam.  So you didn't pass the course.
    But now you know one of a number of things:  You didn't understand
    the material. Possibly you're not interested in the subject.  Maybe
    you now know you really DO need the pre-reqs... minor setback.
    
    Or perhaps you lost in love.  What are you going to do to prevent
    that from happening again?  A minor setback.
    
    Yeah, "failure", if put in the quintessential context, really sucks.
    
    Learning, on the other hand, is great!
    
    BobH.
    
    PS: Did I fail at getting a point across?

    
    
    RE:  .0          
    
                              Focus on winning.
    
    
  "If a child makes an "F" on a paper, it doesn't go on the refrigerator."  
   
                            Focus on the positive.
    
    
    

    
    	Once when I was working retail, there was this "spy-code" game
    that had some sorta pocket calculator accessory which was part of
    it. On it's keyboard was a "fail" key. I've never seen anything
    with a fail key before or since. [Sometimes, I wish *this* keyboard
    had a fail key! Hmmm, Maybe that's what "esc" is...I'll press it
    and]
    
    	"What happened!?!"
    
    "Jasniewski pressed the "fail" key again, boss"
    
    	"OooooooH! I TOLD him never to touch that! Doesnt he know it
    brings the whole system down!?!"
    
    
    Well, dont press *your* failure key - you can easily bring yourself
    to your proverbial knees by doing so. How does one press it? By
    simply acknowledging a failure as such - a negative - instead of
    anything_else (as mentioned in the previous), which could be positive.
    
    	Joe Jas

    
    
    
    There are no mistakes, only lessons.
    
    Growth is a process of trial and error:  experimentation.  The
    "failed" experiments are as much a part of the process as the
    experiments that ultimately "worked".
    
    
                                     Deb
    

The best way to feel better is to go and do something you enjoy doing, in which 
you have confidence, and which you know you do well (in other words, something 
at which you can succeed, and feel good in doing).  After you've gotten 
yourself feeling better about yourself, take a refreshed look at the lessons 
that you can take with you from the experience that seemed like a failure.  
Allowing something to lower your confidence in yourself is a real bummer, and 
sets you up for more of the same.  So, give yourself a boost.

Wishing_I_could_take_my_own_advice,
Meredith

    Re: .0
    
    I consider failure to be a luxury that I can't afford; therefore,
    no matter how down I get, I keep on chipping away at the stone.
     I know that "failure is the path of least persistance."  Success,
    on the other hand, is the courage to keep on going.  This does not
    mean that I don't stop to re-evaluate my position and make the changes
    necessary to improve my changes of total success, but it does mean
    that I never lose the momentum of forward motion. 
    
    Just remember, we're all in the same boat. A famous old saying goes
    "If you wonder if you've made it, you haven't or you wouldn't be
    here."  Great perspective!
    
    -Barb

    
    
    
    Could someone define the term "failure"?  I've been thinking
    about my own life and can't think of anything I've really
    "failed" at...I can think of successes, but not failures.
    Maybe some examples would help?
    
                    Deborah
    
    

    mechanical things fail, people make mistakes and as has already
    been stated mistakes are forgivable and correctable. I used to 
    measure my "failures" by what I did not have, that too was a 
    mistake from which I learned and for which I forgave myself.
    
    when I get down on myself I try to remember what my dad once told
    me....
    	success is getting what you want, happiness is wanting what 
        you've got! If you see yourself as a failure then surely you
    	will become one.
    Ralph

Failure is not an occurrence, it's a state of mind, an attitude. It's
possible to make many mistakes without ever becoming a failure. It's
also possible to be a failure without having ever made a single
mistake. 

Mistakes are relatively easy to correct; attitudes are a bit more
difficult. Therefore, it's better to treat mistakes before they
mature into failures. 

Mike Todd once said he'd been broke many times, but was never poor. 
Along the same lines, it's OK to think you've screwed up; but, never 
think you've failed.

-- Ron

    
    
    
             "I'm not stupid, but sometimes I do stupid things."
    
    
                                    -Howie
    
    
    

    re  500.10  I like that   ....  I am a failure at marriage,
    children, career, BUT I have not given up  ... just looking
    around at what I can screw up next

    A man has not failed because he is down; he has failed when he
    refuses to get up.
    
    				-paraphrased from somewhere-or-other
    

    
    John,
     When someone says to me "life is what you make" I feel they can't
    be any more than half-deep. At this point I won't bother to argue
    with them. Their opinion is far too simple. There are SO MANY VARI-
    ABLES in this life your success/failure is influenced by factor
    after factor after factor. And I guess one of the two points most
    of the previous noters are making is that "failure" is relative.
    Relative to the definition of failure. Another point. I believe
    *most* of the people who walk around singing life is what you make
    it have most likely not had their butts kicked-in big time by life.
    Personally, I have been trying to extracate myself from a particularly
    uncomfortable situation in life. I have attacked this problem from
    ten different angles (at least), but it persists. I am now near
    being totally convinced I should save my energy and anger because
    it was just MEANT to be. How do you feel about Fatalism? It contra-
    dicts life having a porpose (on a simpler argument) but it does
    have to be given some credence. Hey, in a hundred years it won't
    have made a difference. Hang in there.
     
                                                          MATT HEALY
    

	re: -.1
    >uncomfortable situation in life. I have attacked this problem from
    >ten different angles (at least), but it persists. I am now near
    >being totally convinced I should save my energy and anger because
    >it was just MEANT to be. How do you feel about Fatalism? 

	Those who wish to have their attitude considered a "virtue" might 
	term it:

		"learning to accept the things you cannot change"


	(sorry, not making fun, just feeling particularly cynical :^)

    
    RE: -.1
    
     Your point does not apply. This "situation" I am referring to is
    not an amputated leg, but a constantly changing situation which
    yeilds the same result time after time. You should have considered
    this before you replied.
     
                                                            MATT HEALY
    
    
    

    Come on Matt.  You're asking Helen to consider what you left unsaid,
    before she replied.  Be real!  Helen was not trying to be vicious,
    and you seem to have a very cut-their-throats attitude.  If this
    is the attitude you brought to your situation, your lack of success
    stands to reason.  If the situation has brought you to this point,
    you need to step back a moment.  Attacking people for misunderstanding
    or for their own humanness is never reasonable.  But, given humanness,
    noone is always reasonable.
    
    What do you do when the situation is constantly changing, but you
    can't seem to make any progress?  (if you're still reading, Matt)
    Let's give an example.  I'll use pseudonyms, to save people's
    privacy.   Person_a is living with and loving Person_b.  Person_b
    has always been an active person.  Person_b develops a sickness
    which drastically reduces activity, changes moods, affects mental
    reasoning, and has not been figured out by the medical system. 
    Person_b is in pain on a daily basis.  Person_a still loves Person_b
    but it seems there's nothing person_a can do to help except BE THERE.
    The situation changes on a daily basis - it gets better/worse/different
    symptoms.  The meds come up with a solution for one symptom, and
    another pops up.  Person_b cannot work.  Person_a feels restricted
    by the restrictions of Person_b, but still loves person_b.
    
    Is life always fair?
    
    Person_a could be depressed by being with someone who's sick, cannot
    do things like normal folks the same age, sometimes gets wierd
    mentally.
    
    Or
    
    Person_a could thank whatever force there is that Person_b is loving,
    supportive, non-abusive, trying hard to be as human as possible
    under the conditions.
    
    In reality Person_a does both, sometimes at the same time, along
    with dealing with all of life's normal stresses.
    
    It's trite sounding, but we're given no assurances that life will
    always be fair.  We are given the option of grabbing it and living
    it, or being a bystander, but we're not assured that what we grab
    will be velvet, and often it's thorns.
    
    So, I don't have answers for you;  I have not found them myself.
    All I can tell you is that I've felt that way, that if the bomb
    were dropped I'd stand by cheering.  And I've come through it,
    just through the force of passing time.  And there are still lots
    of things that I'd fight for, and that I love, no matter how much
    there is that makes me feel like walking into the ocean.
    
    --Louise

RE: 500.14 Matt TSECAD::HEALY

"I believe *most* of the people who walk around singing life is what you make it
have most likely not had their butts kicked-in big time by life."

Quite likely generally.  And yes there are events that happen that are beyond
our control.  But what is under our control is how we react to these
uncontrolable events.  In any case, being fatalistic will very seldom get you
out of a tought situation; taking an active hand in events might.

Jim. 

re .1 John -

I have a different view on failure. I think that failure, as defined in the
dictionary, does exist. It means "unsuccessful" or "one who has failed".
There are two kinds of failure, temporary and permanent.

Examples of permanent failures:

1. Germany and Japan lost WWII. They failed to conquer the world by force.
2. A marriage fails resulting in divorce. The relationship is ended forever.

Examples of temporary failures:

1. One's job performance was unsatisfactory due to personal problems.
2. One fails to get a mortgage loan due to insufficient income.

The difference between permanent and temporary failures is as previously
mentioned (AA reference) "accept the things I cannot change". The key point
is "having the wisdom to tell the difference". You can overcome temporary
failures (set backs). There is always a solution(s), even though sometimes
the cure seems worse than the disease. In this complicated world, it is
not possible for one person to know all of the solutions. That is why it
is good to get help and support from others. Don't try to do it alone if
the going gets too tough. Even permanent failures can result in positive
benefits. Look at Japan now!

dave

    Re. -1
    
    Dave,
    
    You made a great point about support.  There's alot to be said about
    independence but sometimes we forget to lean on people when we need
    to do so.  Others (family, friends, peers, colleagues, etc) can
    be a wonderful resource.  Experiencing difficult times is to be
    expected (no one said it would be perfect) but to go through those
    times alone can make us feel alienated from the rest of the world.
                           
    I went through a difficult time (at least it seemed difficult to
    me) a couple of years ago and now that I look back on it, I find
    that I am thankful I have the family and friends that I have.  Yes,
    I was responsible for how I reacted and handled the situation but
    my family and friends served as objective windows through which
    I could view the problem.                                   
                                                                
    I'm not going to say how others should handle mistakes, failures,
    setbacks, or difficult situations.  What is good for one is not
    necessarily good for another.  I will say, however, that fatalism
    serves little purpose....except for the possibility of breeding poor 
    attitudes, little motivation, and self-centered behavior.
                                                     
    Kris                                             
    
    

    
    from my perspective (don't hit NEXT UNSEEN yet!...wisdom follows!!)
    
    if i may take the marriage example used by many in replies thus
    far....    
    to me, when most marriages result in divorce, it is not FAILURE!
    It is just...change...
    2 people may marry at one, very young, point in their lives only
    to grow (change?) to a point where they no longer wish to remain
    together....
    
    This is NOT failure....to me...
    I view it as growth and change...
    and a natural part of life...
    
    And it is not necessarily permanent, either...
    these same 2 people, not wanting to be together NOW, may grow
    and change to a point that they want to get back together...
    
    these things DO happen and CAN happen and are NOT failures!
    they are just growth and change
    
    i certainly hope i didn't offend anyone with my statements.
    my intent was to make a point and NOT to offend anyone...
    should anyone consider this an attack on their personal beliefs
    i offer my deepest regrets and humblest apologies....
    rik who fails miserably at making friends and influencing people
    in notes....:-)
    

    re: .21 (in cross-relation to 629.*   kind of a  tangent)
    
    I will be amazed if .21 gets anything close to a flame, rik.
    The phrasing makes it clear to me that 1) this is rik's 
    opinion which, *admittedly*, 2) may not be valid for folks
    with different viewpoints.  In allowing enough room for 
    me to hang on (however foolishly that may be) to my opinion,
    you've taken away any reason I can think of to "flame on".
    
    I agree with the notion that how you present an idea can make
    all the difference in the world.
    
    Steve
    

    re. 22
    steve...
    i'll be amazed if it DOESN'T get flamed!
    
    but i amaze easily...:-)
    rik
    
    and you have my permission to hang onto your opinions....:-)

    re: .23
    
    So what's the a.m. update, rik?  Will you be remote NOTEing 
    from the Shriner's Institute today?
    
    Steve
    

    Failure....the inability to learn from life experiences!

    re: .25
    
    Hear!  Hear!
    
    Steve
    

    In my estimation, you only fail if you don't try.
    
    
    Lucille
    z

    
    Failure teaches success!!!!!!!!
    
    
                           Ray

    
    Success teaches success!!!!!!!!
    
    
	Nikki	%^]

    Teachers fail successes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Ray II: A New Beginning

    Some teachers also do.  Not many below college professor level, though

	I'm trying to get into the EEP program.  I'm fully intending
	to change that sentiment.

	-Jim

    
    	.... and those who can't teach, teach teachers.
    
    so watch out!
    

    Those who can't do teach.
    Those who can't teach, teach gym.

    Changing the subject:
    
    Those who can do,
    Those who can't, manage,
    Those who can't manage, manage managers.
    
    ed