Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    You might want to read the note on this topic in womannotes.
    Add entry colors::womannotes or press keypad 7.
    Bonnie

    re .0
    
    Also, check note 360 to learn about handling some of the pressures
    that society can apply to this decision.
    
    Bob Mc

    Hi.
    
    From my experience, I changed once I had a baby.  I had thought
    that my marriage was doing okay, but 3 months after having a baby
    I noticed a change in me.  I do not blame anyone.  Since then I
    gotten a divorce, but my daughter is the only thing that keeps me
    alive.  I would not change anything.
    
    I also did not have any patience with kids, but having one changes
    that, you learn with the child.  I was never around kids while I
    grew up, but I guess I am doing okay raising my daughter by my self.
    Not that I want to raise my daughter by myself, but for right now,
    it is for the best.
    
    I think the best thing is to really look and see if you two are
    really ready for the responsibily of raising a child, and yes your
    lifestyle changes, maybe for the better.
                                            
    Good luck
    angie
    

    Wait your 3-4 years, maybe more, if you possibly can.  Having a child
    puts severe stress on a relationship.  Give it some time to
    develop strength.
    				Steve

    I was married at the age of 32. I thought that it would never happen.
    I to thought that I would never have kids. I thought that I was
    too old for kids. Julie and I have been married for five years.
    There was a reconsideration of our earlier thoughts of no children.
    I am very glad that we have change too. Eva is about seven weeks
    old, and I am very happy that we had her. Yes, there can be a change,
    better or worse. I am very happy, and thought that it would never
    happen. It is a decision that once the cement is casted, it is hard
    to break.
    
    George

re; < Note 491.4 by QUARK::LIONEL "We all live in a yellow subroutine" >

   >Having a child
   >puts severe stress on a relationship.

I've heard certain things about the types of stresses that children can put on 
a relationship, as well as the self.  Could any of you describe some of those 
stresses?

Of all the people to whom I've spoken, each has said that they would never go 
back and not have the children who are theirs today; that it is worth the 
chore of raising them to watch them develop, and to get to know them.  How do 
you feel?

    
    So you want to know what kinds of stress it puts on a relationship?
    It's called having to share.  All of a sudden the attention that
    used to go to only ONE person has to be shared by another person,
    and a very demanding, selfish, all-consuming one at that.
    
    I am currently divorced with 2 girls ages 8 and 4.  I love them
    dearly, but if I'd known that they were going to end up in a divorced
    household, I never would have had them.  It's not fair to them or
    me.  I am also trying desperately to create a relationship with
    a wonderful person.  Picture this:
    
    	You're sitting in front of the fireplace with someone wonderful.
    	Music on softly, sipping wine, and everything is wonderful and
    	romantic.  Suddenly, a 4 year-old shows up out of nowhere,
    	climbs on your lap and announces that she just wet the bed...
    
    Funny? Yes and no.  But maybe you get the picture.
    
    	Again, I wouldn't give up my girls for anything and while I
    was going through my divorce, I'd say they saved my sanity.  (What
    little there is left.)  But having a child is a full-time (24 hour!)
    job and it lasts a life time.
    
    	Every other weekend my ex and his new wife takes the girls for the
    weekend and my SO and I get to know eachother better.  If it weren't
    for these breaks I don't know if we'd ever get to know eachother.
    
    							jean

    
    
    

    
    
    Gee, I had just the opposite experience!  Before the divorce,
    I had my child around full-time.  Now his dad has him 50% of
    the time, so one week I get to be 'childless' and the next week
    I can enjoy the fruits of motherhood!!  I admit, by the end of
    the 'sans Jamey' week, I miss him very very much!  
    
    And the potentially wonderful person that I was seeing, became
    a definitely wonderful person that I married, after being around
    my son.  Definitely a 'growing' experience for him.
    
    Actually we have ALL become better people because of that child.
    Being a role model means that one has to scrutinize one's self
    very carefully.  I know my values-my LIVING my values-has improved
    tremendously because I want my child to be the best person possible,
    and I want to set a good example.
    
    
    Oh stresses-loss of freedom.  Like, you can't sleep in on a whim
    (at least when they are very young), you really can't do ANYTHING
    on a whim...it's emotionally and mentally draining, because you
    are frequently called upon to relate to another person, even when
    you JUST WANT TO BE ALONE.  I mean, you can tell an adult that you
    are feeling crabby and need some 'time out' and hope they will under-
    stand...can't do that with an infant (although I use that tactic
    frequently now that my son is 8 years old and understands that mom
    is human).  And they outgrow their clothes on a regular basis!!
    
                         DKW
    
    

    On stresses - how about the differences in child raising...
    Somehow, this is a topic that seldom gets discussed, particularly
    before marriage.  All of a sudden, there you are in a situation
    with a child (or children) and find that you each have vastly
    opposed ideas of how to handle the situation.
    
    How about aspirations?  I wanted my kids to grow up with a sense
    of responsibility, contributing to the family unit, valuing themselves
    and the contribution they might make to society.  My ex-husband,
    and their father, wanted them to have "free" childhoods.  And he
    didn't feel the need to be a contributing member of society.
    
    I wouldn't change having had my kids.  They are great, they are
    a pain, they get in the way, they hellp me grow, they help me see
    the world in a different light.  I raise them alone now, both
    financially and emotionally.  I get no child support and they seldom
    (mostly never) see their father.  This situation hasn't kept me
    from having a wonderful relationship with a wonderful man.  But
    I'm not wild about him fathering my kids either.  He is super-strict
    which creates another kind of stress.  So we have come to an
    understanding of who does what....but that took ALOT...

    I know that the stress of having a child was a significant
    factor in the breakup of my marriage.  And we had waited six years,
    planned two years in advance, the works.  You can't predict these
    things in advance.  But I'd do it all over again (having the child!),
    no question about it.  Yes, the divorce caused me more pain than I
    ever thought was possible, but I've come out the other side, and am
    even happier now.  My son is doing well and seems to be happily
    adjusted to the situation.
    
    Please don't take this to mean that I think a divorce is GOOD for
    a child - it isn't.  But it isn't the end of the world either, and
    there may even be some benefits to come out of it.  My parents divorced
    when I was 2, so I've lived it from both ends.
    
    Don't let all this scare you.  When you feel it's time, plan and have
    a child, and let loose in the world all the love and joy that comes
    with children.  Take the time to keep your marriage going, don't just
    devote 100% of your time and energy to the child.  You can make it
    work.
    
    					Steve

    
    
    ( someone else saying this to me ) ..  I wouldn't take a million
    for the <2> I have, but I wouldn't give you a nickel for another
    

    A very close friend of mine had a divorce sometime ago. Good thing,
    we all said, that there was no children. His careful observation
    of what happen that led to the demise of their relationship was
    summed up on afternoon over a beer and some lawn darts. Divorce
    is like a bomb that goes off in the main livingroom and all the
    family is gathered around it like watching TV. Everyone is a victum
    and the biggest victums of the entire show is the kids. They are
    experienced with unglyness of two people, who gave them the very
    breath of life, are fighting over trivial things. Who are fighting
    over differences of each other than trying to work out that difference.
    
    It was a very unique lesson, and a very unique day. For I fear these
    things as much as the next person. And I hope that I have the curage
    and stomach to either streighten these differences out, or to leave
    with all of my sences.
    
    George
    

    re: .0
    
    On "making faces and hates kids .." -
    Some people change, as long as they are part of the decision to
    have kids (no tricks !). It's funny, in a way, people can
    be extremely intolerant of "noisy kids" ... until they get some
    of their own. Some people don't change. I know a couple of women
    who seem to hate kids, including their own. Its a mixed bag on how
    people will respond when they get kids of their own. (I think part
    of the problem is that some adults don't like the competition that
    kids provide).
    
    Stresses ... i don't know where it resides nowadays, but there's
    a conference called: Parenting. Its all about raising kids, and the
    opportunities and challenges that children present.
    
    Divorce .. the real losers are the kids, even when mommy and daddy
    part amicably. And if there's a war between the parents the KIDS
    always lose. In any war there  are always "sides" and when kids
    are stuck what can they do ? In the case of abusive parents there
    is often no choice.
    
    
    There is a process that some churches sponsor, more or less called
    "pre-Marital" counseling. If there are any real serious concerns,
    it might be something to consider, especially if you really want
    to be a Mommy, an he really doesn't want to be a 'daddy'.
    
    But remember .. no tricks to have kids against his preferences.
    RWE
    

    re: .13
    
    The parenting conference is located at WORDS::PARENTING.  Press
    KP7 to select this conference.
    
    All subjects involving 'parenting' are covered from first child
    desisions to empty nest syndrom, etc.
    
    jim
    

================================================================================
Note XXX.0                find out what you're made of                No replies
STRATA::WCLARK "voodoo mathematician"                18 lines  13-APR-1988 13:33
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You want to know what being a parent is like? Think of some
    challenging things you could do with your life - join the
    marines, go to grad school, go on outward bound, join the
    peace corps, etc. Being a parent is like this, only more
    INTENSE - it doesen't end and you can't quit once you've 
    started. Plus you really are responsible for somebody else's
    life - somebody very close to you. It's very much a growing
    experience. Your outlook on life changes.
    There were certainly times when having kids has put a strain
    on my relationship with my wife. But overall, our relationship
    is better than ever. The problems we had before we had kids
    seem trivial compared to the ones we deal with now. And the
    time we get to spend alone together is very valuable to us.
    
    Don't do it till you're ready, though. It's a BIG step. Especially
    the first one.
    
    -DAve (married with 2 kids)

re; 13...

I would never, ever surprise him like that!  The thought makes me shudder.  If 
I were to get pregnant, it would be going against the odds of the pill, and he 
wouldn't be the only one, surprised.  I am extremely faithful about taking the 
pill.

I do know that a child is not a present desire, either for me, or him.  It is 
definitely in that "Maybe in the future" category.  The idea has occured to me 
a couple of times, and thus, the inquiry for your responses; thank you so much. 
You have all been most helpful, and I hope that those who have not responded 
yet, but want to, still will, as I have been reading, as have others, I 
suspect, who have the same thing in mind.

It is nice that, at this moment, I do not have to make a decision for life; 
either to have, or not to have, children.  I *can* say, maybe, someday...!

    
    	I can relate to you some good, as well as, not so good points
    of having kids.   Some of the nsg: remember that sports car you 
    wanted, forget it, no room for kid(s), playpen, diaper bag, toys,
    carriers, blah, blah, blah, spontaneous romance?, forget it, romance?
    forget it! (well, less than before..), find a baby sitter, who do
    you trust with YOUR kid(s), hope you have quite a bit of extra money in
    your budget, (my wife works as a mom, this puts added strain on
    goals), more money for diapers, formula, clothes, child rearing
    equipment, more money, on and on..., more laundry, dishes, pick
    up after them constantly, messy house 80% of the time, (the other
    20% you are picking up after them), doctor visits, doctor bills,
    hassles over payment, this list could go on for the longest time...
    point being, you and your spouse will be put under more strain from
    the added responsibility.
    GOOD points: ahhh, this will make me feel alot better after the
    previous paragraph, the first thing that comes to mind is the small,
    but crisp and clear voice of my oldest daughter as I enter the door,
    "Dad's home!", boy that makes me want to run right to her and pick
    her little body up off the floor with a tight, but not too much,
    hug, accompanied by many kisses to the face.  To hear her say " I love you "
    not because you are a grandma, or brother, cousin, but because you
    are DAD.  The inexplicable feelings that you alone know and experience
    when she falls and cries, or wakes in the middle of the night, afraid,
    and you pick her up to hug her,  and tell her "it's ok, Daddy's
    got you..." , how many times can you say you cried because you were
    so happy, it will happen with a child, more times than the day of
    birth, you know you're wanted, needed, most of all, the special love
    that only you and your child will know between each other.  You now
    have a purpose.......
    
    Good luck,
    
    

re; < Note 491.17 by PARITY::PHIL_MCCANCE >

thanks for your note!  I got misty, just reading it...

My sweetie and I have had a discussion since I put in .0.  He knows that he 
wants a child or children, but that now is not the time.  Me? - I vascillate. 
I'm glad that I don't need to make the decision right away.  I am over one 
fear; the fear that being an abused child, will make me an abusive mother.  I 
have worked long and hard, and will continue to do so, to find the roots of why 
Mom was that way; why I responded as I did; how to put together a new life that 
does not include abuse.  The first thing I did right was realize the value of 
my SO, who is caring, and knows how to work with me, to make the relationship, 
work.  I have finally gotten over seeking abusive relationships.  We have 
talked about the need for patience in dealing with children, and my mind is 
more at ease there, too; he has become aware that children do not always turn 
out to be who you want them to be, but recognizing the positive traits that 
they do have, helps one to see that who is that child, is good, anyway.

A very close friend of mine has become pregnant with her first child.  There 
are the fears, the worries; there are the joys; the way she and her husband 
look at one another, with so much love.  She was told she couldn't get 
pregnant, and so, feels very blessed.  It gives me a good feeling; if I do get 
pregnant later on, the child will be wanted, and loved; anything good in life 
is a trade-off; you get the fun stuff, along with the not-so-fun stuff.  It 
does sound like one whopper of a responsibility; it does sound scary.  When and 
if it happens, I'll do like I always do...The best I can!

Thanks again...
Meredith

    	Meredith, you'll be just great...
    
    					Carla