Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Being a male is particularly hazardous during boyhood, when supposedly the male
is culturally privileged by having greater opportunities for exploration and
pleasure.  Though the cultural pressures on the boy to behave in traditionally
masculine ways is much greater than the pressures on the girl to behave in
traditionally female ways. ("Tomboy" is cute, "Sissy" is terrible), the growing
boy in today's society has precious few live male models who are around enough
of the time for him to identify with and to make the passage into adult malehood
a smooth and comfortable one.

For the first ten years of his life, the important identification and authority
figures around him are mainly females, specifically mother and teacher. (Chances
are great that teachers in elementary schools will be women)   Either Dad works
all day and comes home too tired to really get involved, or else the parents are
divorced and mother has custody.  Consequently, to a great extent, the young boy
has to learn to identify himself as a man vicariously by hearing the cultural
definition of one from women or through fantasy via television or reading.

The contemporary prevailing trend in parental interaction seems to be one of a
dominant mother and a passive father.  It appears that increasingly the male
parent has faded into the background and turned the reins over to mother.
Therefore, even if father is present in the home, he often offers only an
elusive, shadowy image with which the young boy cannot identify.

This situation is aggravated still further for the young son by the fact that on
those occasions when father does make an impact it is often in the role of
punisher; the heavy. Mother warns her son that if he misbehaves she will tell
Dad when he comes home.  In the process, therefore, when Dad is not shadowy, he
is often a feared and negative identification figure.

The early identification process for the boy is therefore paradoxical and
tragic.  Pressures are put on him to be "all boy," yet he has to achieve a
masculine identification virtually by a proxy, via a father who is either
uninvolved, often absent, passive when present, or assuming a punitive role. 

    The base note has some numbers in places that would appear to be
    referencing footnotes, but the footnotes are absent.  Could you provide
    these footnotes?
    
    Rich

    RE: .0 and .1
    
    	Very interesting. I hope you'll either enter more of the
    	article or perhaps mail me a copy. 
    
    		

    
    
       The numbers may not be as dire as they sound. Such changes in
    the ratio of females to males since 1920 have other factors that
    heavily effect them. 
       Such as World war I and World war II. While many women were
    killed in these wars almost all of the fighting was done by males.
    This is where some of the fatalities in the younger age groups could
    have occured and deaths in such high numbers are going to have a
    definite and lasting effect on the future population. Everyone Knows
    about the post war baby boom where many of these deaths were made
    up for with higher than normal birth rates. But even as these baby's
    came of age there was yet another war with vietnam taking many more
    mostly male lives. Remember that the average age of a soldier in
    vietnam was only 19. Factors such as these are going to have a large
    effect on the worldwide male population, and even today in many
    foriegn countries there are wars going on and they are traditionly
    fought by young and enthusiastic males, of wich many end up dead
    at a young age.
       These represent some of the high prices paid by males to keep
    thir so-called privileged status. This is not in anyway meant to
    say that females do not suffer from hazzards that men will never
    have to worry about such as pregnancy related deaths and other
    physical problems that are exclusive the female gender.
       AS for the mother taking a heavier role in the upbringing I really
    do not agree with that. Based only on my own experience and being
    still very young all I have seen are familys where two parents work
    and there is a very equal sharing of duties because that is the
    only way that a family can be raised in a time of high cost of living.
       All of this is just the opinion of a 25 year old male who has
    been married for a year and half and who lost his father at a very
    youg age and was brought by his mother only.
    
    
        P.S. I am the only male in a family of five children.
             So we are trying to balance this thing out a little
    
    
                                    John C.
    

RE: .2

I will be putting the footnotes in at a later date...

RE: .4

"The numbers may not be as dire as they sound. Such changes in the ratio of
females to males since 1920 have other factors that heavily effect them. Such as
World war I and World war II."

Your comments explain the data, but I do not see how they make the information
less "dire".  Fighting in wars is a problem that men face; war is dire. The fact
that there are more females then males is a result of greater male fatality. 

Jim.

Despite the liberalized attitude of many contemporary parents who allow boys to
behave in the traditionally feminine ways, a recent study indicated that it's
still a matter of "pity the poor sissy" for the boy who shows interest in
female-type activities.8

The director of a gender identity research treatment program at UCLA reported
that unlike their "tomboy" counterparts, "sissy" boys are quickly marked for
rejection.  The boys in this program who are being treated for their effeminate
behavior all have reported harassment.  One seven year old boy, it was reported,
had his shirt torn off by classmates to see if he had female breasts.9 

Not so surprising is the fact that although girls with "tomboy" patterns would
not be excluded from this program they are almost never brought in. Clearly in
our culture parents don't get very uptight about their "tomboy" daughters, but
they become very disturbed if their sons show "sissy" patterns. This is a
destructive cultural paradox regarding the male since research has revealed that
both boys and girls identify more closely with mother then with father and that
boys have greater difficulty achieving same sex identification.10

Early educational experiences for the young boy can also be very painfull in
many subtle and not so subtle ways.  In the public schools, the majority of
students regarded as problem cases by teachers are boys.  A recent study of
California school children in schools that permit corporal punishment, indicated
that boys were on the receiving end of a spanking by teachers eighteen times
more often than girls.11 

The elementary school setting puts the young boy into more than his share of
painfull binds.  While there is great peer pressure to act like a boy, the
teacher's coveted classroom values are traditionally "feminine" ones. The
emphasis is on politeness, neatness, docility, and cleanliness, with not much
approved room being given for the boy to flex his muscles.  Teacher's greatest
efforts often go into keeping the boys quiet and in their seats. 

A recent study of 12,000 students produced some interesting findings along this
line.  The researcher correlated masculinity scores of boys on the California
Psychological Inventory with their grades.  She found that the higher the boy
scored on the masculinity scale, the lower his report card average tended to be.

Of the 277 students with a D or F average, 60% were boys.  Of the two boys with
the most distinguished scholastic records, one was noted to be markedly
effeminate in speech and gesture while the other "gave the strong impression of
being more feminine than effeminate."  Both boys had very low scores in physical
fitness.

The researcher in this study came to the conclusion that "Many schools and
academies are dehumanizing and unmanly places.  Boys who succeed in them often
do so by grossly violating many of the codes of honor and the norms of boy
culture."12 

The young boy in our culture is placed into countless such dilemmas.  He is told
he must become a boy but he has to do so with very limited male model
availability.  He is taught that "real boys" are active and strong but then gets
into trouble in school for acting like a "real boy".  He is in constant conflict
between his own restlessness and the desire to be active and his teacher's
demand that he be quiet, submissive, and passive.

It is not surprising then that a study conducted with 1,700 children, the entire
kindergarten through second grade population of a midwest university town, found
that boys showed a significantly greater prevalence of behavior symptoms.  These
included, among others, oddness and bizarre behavior, preoccupation ("in a
world of his own"), short attention span, nervousness, poor muscular
coordination, distractablity, and inability to relax. 

Of fifty five symptoms, boys showed a significantly greater amount in
approximately forty.  Girls showed only a significantly greater prevalence in
five, which included, "doesn't know how to have fun," shyness, jealousy over
attention paid to other children, and physical complaints such as stomachaches
and hypersensitivity ("feelings easily hurt").

The researchers concluded: "There seems little doubt that not only do boys have
more symptoms but the connotative sense of most of the symptoms commoner in boys
represents "badness."  Thus it can be concluded that, at this age level, boys
are perceived by female teachers as more trouble or "worse" than girls... Thus
boys must be considered to have a higher rate of disorder and more "at risk" in
our society than girls. 

Boys are seen in child guidance clinics at a rate which is often as high as
three times that of girls.  One such major clinic near a large metropolitan
area, serves the entire state of Michigan and sees a representative sampling of
severely disturbed and moderately disturbed children and adolescents. Of 500
children discussed in this reported study, 380 or 76% were boys. The ratio of
boys to girls was slightly higher than three to one.  The ten most common
symptoms were poor academic achievement, behavior problems, reading problems,
aggressiveness, hyperactivity, stealing, oppositional behavior, poor peer
relationships, temper tantrums, and anxiety.14 

Various reports have suggested that autism, the severest from of childhood
schizophrenia, runs three to four times as high as for boys.15  In state and
county mental hospital units for children, boys outnumber girls by approximately
150%.16  Under the age of fifteen, males are diagnosed as schizophrenics 42%
more frequently than girls.17

In light of all this it is obvious that the "blessings" of being a young male
in our culture are extremely mixed.  From early boyhood on, his emotions are
suppressed by others and therefore he repressed by himself.  In countless ways
he is constantly conditioned not to express his feelings and needs openly. Though
he too has needs for dependency, he learns that it is unmasculine to be
frightened ("scared"), to want to be held, stroked, and kissed, to cry, etc.
While all of these expressions of self are acceptable in a girl they are
incompatible with the boy's sought after image of being tough and in control.

    I would be willing to bet that a significant factor in the increase
    in life expectancy for women since the 1920's can be traced to much
    better obstetrical care.  Many of my grandparents' friends died
    early in childbirth, a fairly common occurence in the '20s and '30s.
    How many women do you know who have died in childbirth in the last
    20 years?

    re: .0
    
    Hmph ... another  study.
    
    Somewhere around the middle is a statement made by the researchers
    (were they male researchers ?) which states that ".. somewhere around
    the turn of the century polygamy will be necessary because there'll
    be 145 female for each 100 males... over the age of 65 ..".
    
    This, is of course, ignoring all other statistics, such as the growing
    openess toward lesbianism; the rising death rate among female
    professionals (due to heart, stress, smoking, and other 'success
    related' deaths); the (hopefull) trend to putting females in the
    "fighting ares" along with their male counterparts (Draft, you know)
    and other factors.
    
    My comment on lesbianism is based on my personal pseudo studies (reading
    notes, listening to the news, etc) that suggests that their is larger
    number of lesbians than gays, which in theend might suggest that
    even if their is a ratio of 145 to 100, the "true" heterosexual
    ratio, of those who WANT to be alined with people of the opposite
    sex, might drop to about 120 to 98 (or some lessesr figure than
    145:100).
    
    Bob
    

RE: .9  'were they male researchers?'

In several places female pronouns (she, her, ...) are used.

RE: .9 'homosexuals'

If there are more female homosexuals, there are also more male homosexuals...

RE: .10 'woe is me'

One thing that I definitely like about this book, is that it specifically does
not try to pin the 'blame' on some particular group or sex; it simply reports
the situation.  Because it does not assign any blame, I find it easier to not be
angry at some group, because there is there is no target which I am aimed at. 

I feel that this does serve a purpose, to make us aware of problems that exist.
If we do not know the problems exist, how can we do anything about them? 

Yes, it is easy to dismiss other people's problems, and that seems to be what
people have been doing with the white male's problems.

All in all, I quite agree, and applaud your sentiment...

Jim. 


 

    Does this book get into the drugging of children to make them
    able to sit in our restrictive classrooms?  Now THAT'S a horror
    story!  From what I heard, in inner city and indian reservation
    schools, as many as 80% of the kids are on some sort of speed.
    (speed works as a depressent on children - it changes to a
    stimulant when kids go through puberty)  The speed makes the
    kids, who are diagnosed as hyperactive or learning impaired, able
    to sit in the classrooms.  Problem is, it also has all the side
    effects that it does in adults - physical and mental - as well
    as depressing the kids so much that a percentage of them suicide.
    (this is higher than the child-suicide rate for non-drugged kids).
    In addition, all it takes to be labelled as "learning impaired"
    and thus drugged, is to be performing below grade level in any
    one of three categories on a standardized test.
    
    While drugs may have a positive influence on some kids, this mass
    drugging stuff is terrible!  And, to refer this back to the topic,
    it's more likely to be done to boys, since they are generally more
    active than girls.  Their natural exuberance is labelled
    hyperactivity by the psychs.
    
    --Louise

    RE: .10	Very nice note and I agree with what you say.
    		Heres hoping it is possible.

    re: .10
    
    I think women are the LAST people you'd find doing breast-beating...
    
    ouch!  :-)

    -Jody
    

    re .12
    I agree with you completely.  The drug most often used is (I believe)
    Ritalin and its incredible that this is happening to our little
    boys all over this country.
    Perhaps if we rethink our roles and steriotypes we can discard those
    obsolete and ridiculous standards that so stress our children and
    our society.

RE: .12 Louise

The drug was (in most cases) Ritalin.  I was one of those 'hyperactive' children
given Ritalin.

The book makes no specific mention of Ritalin.  It's scope is much broader.

I've given some thought to what would be a better alternative...  Would it be
better to run schools so that all learning was an 'active' (lab) experience
rather then a passive (lecture) experience?  Should live in general be more
active?  Should we train boys from day 1 to be less active? 

More over the weekend... 

Jim. 

    My opinion is that we should allow children to be children, and
    perhaps that will increase the odds of having a normal adult
    population.  Ever seen stats on what percentage of people
    have been labelled as abnormal and/or hospitalized during their
    lives?  It's scary!  When we've so narrowly defined normal that
    a majority of the population is seen as sick, we have some thinking
    to do about our definitions.
    
    American society seems to have decided that passivity and fitting
    into molds is something to be desired far more than creativity
    and originality.  We're producing a generation of people who
    throw their hands up in helplessness when confronted with problems,
    who are so physically inactive that they get diseases of inactivity,
    who are so mentally inactive that they become depressed and psychotic
    and can't tell why.  We have got to sit up some day and decide to
    let people be people.  Not only LET them, but ENABLE them.  If we
    spent less time trying to keep children quiet in school so we could
    bore them to death, and more time teaching them things that they
    need using methods that encourage excited learning, we and the children
    would be a good deal better off.

    Stepping down off my soapbox.....
    
    --Louise

(a continuation of .7)

If he falls and hurts himself he is encouraged to deny his pain because "big
boys don't cry."  This attitude carries over into adolescence when the "hero" of
a football or basketball game would be someone who continues to play after he
has been injured.  Typically, our professional athletes are often drugged and
their pains anesthetized as they are thrown back into the fray after non
disabling injuries.

The end result of this is an adult male who tends to disregard, deny, and in
general "tune out" body signals of disease and discomfort.  He goes to work even
when he doesn't feel well and only takes to bed when he is near collapse.
Because being ill means being somewhat helpless, passive and dependent he
resists it for much longer than he should. 

Because being sick, staying in bed and "pampering" himself are anathema to the
masculine image, he may be so deaf to his body signals that he goes from feeling
great one day to having a heart attack the next.  The signs of impending illness
either have been ignored or were never consciously experienced. Consequently,
when he finally ends up in the hospital he tends to stay an average of 15%
longer then the female.18

Other data also bear out the resistance of the male to taking care of himslef
and to seeking help for body problems.  Males make approximately 25% fewer
visits per year to doctors and dentists than females.19  Lest it be assumed that
this is because males are healthier, the following facts on chronic illnesses
leading to death thoroughly dispel this notion. 

Men are four to five times more likely to die from bronchitis, emphysema, and
asthma than females.  death rates from cardiovascular diseases and cirrhosis of
the liver are twice as high.  Men die from hypertension approximately 40% more
often, from pneumonia and influenza 64% more often, and from arteriosclerosis at
a rate 20% more often.20 

Tuberculosis hospitals report a male population which is 150% higher and
chronic disease hospitals report a male population which is 50% higher.21

According to the 1973 statistics of the American Cancer Society, the annual
death rate for males from cancer is almost 40% higher.22  The male rate for
specific site cancers such as ling cancer and cancer of the esophagus is even
greater than that.

A man in the throes of emotional problems also resists reaching out and seeking
help from professionals or friends.  Untill he finally breaks down altogether he
is prone to denying that he even has any problems.  He has learned very well to
hide and repress his real self, his feelings, and to keep his own counsel.  The
divorced male is a tragic example of the result of this attitude and "masculine"
orientation.  For divorced males the death rate is 3.16 times the rate for
divorced women.23  In all institutions, state, county, private, and general
hospital inpatient psychiatric services, separated or divorced men outnumber
females by 20%.  However, in out patient psychiatric services, separated and
divorced females outnumber separated and divorce men by 12%.24  These figures
suggest the greater readiness of the women to ask for help before emotional
problems have become so severe as to require institutionalization. 

It has been claimed by some feminists that women have more emotional problems
and they cite as proof the fact that a greater number of them are in private
psychotherapy.  However, I believe that going for private therapy actually is a
sign of the woman's greater sensitivity and awareness of her feelings, her
greater capacity to ask for help and to allow herself to depend on and come
close to someone in order to get it.  She is possibly also less reluctant to
spend money on herself for this purpose than the male and/or in some cases her
husband is more willing to spend it on her than on himself.  This is suggested
by the fact that women outnumber men in private psychiatric facilities by 18%
while men are admitted to publicly supported state and county hospitals at a
rate which is 20% higher than the female.25

From my own experience as a psychotherapist I would concur with the researcher
who concluded, after comparing sex differences in mental health, that "women
exhibit greater tolerance of and long range adaptability to stress and
frustration ... [and] women as a group show a greater concern with physical and
mental health."27  Another researcher who has spent more than twenty five years
studying stress, summed it up this way:  "Whether you experiment with animals in
the laboratory or simply observe everyday life, males invariably go to pieces
faster than females.  Their endocrine and central nervous systems just don't
stand up well under the strain."28 

Vocational status and employment are another source ofhazardous stress in many
ways unique to the male.  Discussing his monograph that "... the positive self
image of the male depends primarily on his success at work... It is very likely
that the male needs success in work as a basis for success in love."29
Psychotherapists have noted that loss of employment, a lowering of job status,
or failure in investments often find sexualy impotance in its wake.

The man who loses his job may find his identity and self respect severely
threatened.  He has learned to value himself on the basis of performance,
achievement and productivity.  Many men live in quiet terror of losing their
occupational place and struggle desperately to maintain it.  In this age of
"future shock" every man knows how tenacious his vocational place is and lives
in dread of being discarded as obsolete.  Retirement, rather than being
something to look forward to becomes a fearsome thing.  As is well known, a
great proportion of men die shortly after retirement. 

Any description of the "joys" of the working life would be incomplete without
mentioning that there are about 14,000 deaths on the job recorded annually and
over 2 million disabling injuries.  A Recent study commissioned by the United
States Department of Labor indicated that many more serious injuries go
uncounted.30  Men are the victims of these accidents, according to government
statistics, at a rate which is at least 6 times higher than women.31

The male tragedy is highlighted by the following statistics in criminal and
legal matters.  His is six times more likely to be arrested on narcotics
charges, thirteen times more likely to be arrested for drunkenness, over nine
times more likely to be arrested for offenses against children, fourteen times
as likely to be arrested for weapons offenses, eleven times more likely to be
arrested for gambling, and three times more likely to be arrested for
involvement in a motor vehicle accident.32 

What happens after the arrest?  Whereas 83% of total arrests in 1970 were males,
over 95% of those admitted to state and federal prisons were males.33  The male
is clearly more likely to be convicted and sentenced to prison. 

In 1960, before capital punishment had been temporarily abolished 21% of those
arrested on murder charges were women.  However, only about 1% (30 out of 3,294)
of those executed for murder were female.34 

Seventeen hundred and twenty felony cases were studied in 1967 to determine the
impact personal characteristics of the offender have on the court's decision.
This critical study revealed that, "Women were found to receive much better
treatment than male offenders," the judges showing "something of a chivalrous
attitude toward women," and that a "substantially higher percentage of women
offenders receive sentences involving non imprisonment then do their male
counterparts."  Sentencing differences were attributed to the popular belief
that women commit crimes of passion and are "seldom possessed of pervasive
criminal tendencies that more often characterize male criminals."35 

The UCLA Law Review recently published a paper on "Disparities in Criminal
Procedure."  Using a sampling of 11,258 cases from 194 counties in all 50 states
the study indicated that "the disparity tends to favor the female, particularly
at the sentencing stage."  The study further indicated: "With regard to pretrial
procedure, male defendants in assault and larceny cases are much less likely
than female defendants to be released on bail they can afford... The federal
findings generally tend to show that females defendants receive more favorable
treatment than male defendants... With regard to the results of the state
criminal process, the sample sizes are large enough to say with reasonable
confidence that the female defendant is more likely than the male to be found
innocent, and if found guilty is more likely to receive a suspended sentence or
probation.36 

While everybody seems to know that men commit significantly more crimes, it is
perhaps less well known that they are also significantly more likely to be the
victim.  Males are the victims of aggravated assault 143% more often; 404% more
often the victim of a burglary; 150% more often the victim of larceny; and 45%
more often the victim of robbery.37  And according to the 1972 Uniform Crime
Reports, men were the victims of murder in approximately 80% of the cases.38
Although men are arrested for murder six times as often, when it comes to spouse
killings which compromise over 10% of all murders, almost half of all these
killings are committed by women.39

These is a special hazard to being a male homosexual in our culture.  As a
recent study pointed out, "The major emphasis of legislation in the field of
criminal justice is directed toward the male homosexual, as laws are almost
never enforced concerning the female homosexual."40 

A cursory search by that researcher of fifteen law enforcement agencies in
southern California revealed an apathy toward female homosexuality.  Females
arrested on charges related to this ranged from 2% to 4% of the total number of
arrests for homosexuality. "... the Los Angeles Police Department has had a
range of 2.9% to 4.3% of a five year period."  The researcher concluded that
there was almost a "... total lack of interest in female homosexuals as a law
enforcement problem."41

No chapter on the hazards of being male would be complete without a discussion
of the suicide statistics.  They are perhaps the most telling of all the
statistics regarding the "glories" and "joys" of being male.  Up to the age of
twenty four, the male rate of suicide is over three times as high as the
female's.  Over the age of sixty five, the rate is almost five times as high as
the female.42  These statistics do not account for the many automobile
accidents leading to death which may have been suicides.  Men have a twelve
times higher ratio of success to failure in suicide attempts in comparison to
women.  That is, women attempt suicide approximately four times as often as men
while men actually succeed in killing themselves three times more often.

What may sound like a litany of despair for the male is actually a description
of the real crisis faced by the male in our culture, crises that will not be
remedied simply by the implementation of legislation, but which demand a
revolution in male consciousness.

By what perverse logic can the male continue to imagine himself "top dog?"
 Emotionally repressed, out of touch with his body, alienated and isolated
from other men, terrorized by his body, afraid to ask for help, thrown out
at a moment's notice on the occupational junkpile when all he ever knew was
how to work, it is perhaps surprising that the suicide statistics are only
what they are.  Perhaps, however, the male has become an artist in the creation
of many hidden ways of killing himself. 

    Its time for some changes in our world... time for life to become
    more bearable, more reasonable for all of us.

    .23 has a good point. Why do so many people want to be 'top dog'?
    Why do so many countries want to dominate the world? Do people
    really think that being number one is any better than NOT being
    number one? There's no right without responsibility. That includes
    being number one. Maybe this note should be "the hazards of being
    number one".
    
    -Dave (happy not being a VP)(not happy being a VP)

    
    	So, Jim, want to help me change the world? :') Seems to me a
    revolution in *world* consciousness is long over due. Curious, how
    the government, industry and even society itself seem to shout out
    against it. It's a big wall to scale. Are we ready? We've certainly
    gotten closer in the last 100 years. At least we know the *information*
    is there, in books and on this tube. It'd be nice to have everyone
    get a chance to see it!
    
    	Joe Jas

What I find curious is that virtually *everybody*, whether they are on the long
end of the stick, or the short end, supports status quo to some extent,
consciously, unconciously, or they don't want to change their life to change the
world.

They know what the rules are in *this* game, and are not willing to try anything
new... 

Jim.

    
    	Hmmm...  Recently I have been involved in trying to make some
    *real* changes in lifestyle.  To include growing my own food, and
    moving to a rural situation.   Reducing job tensions seems essential
    if I am to go on without developing ulcers, so I am hoping I can
    find three or four part time sources of income, so that no one source
    has to be the scene of 100% of the tensions.
    
    	But then, in my little family group, everyone else wants to
    opt for here and now stability.   Can't quit the job at the
    construction firm, even though it's going broke, because she'll
    feel "insecure".   My best friend's SO is losing her job to
    automation at the phone company, yet she also won't think about
    the need for radical change until she is actually unemployed.
    
    	Unfortunately, I must conclude that the world will have to
    hit most of these people in the face, before they will conclude
    that real substantial changes are in fact necessary.
    
    				Alan.

    
    	Fortunately, there are some people who are changing their ways
    in life as a result of some exposure to "higher consciousness thinking"
    -or- as a result of some exposure to a person operating from a higher
    consciousness level. It can spread geometrically as other
    communicatable things do. If we allow it to.
    
    	Joe Jas 

    466.6 is interesting. It got me to thinking about the philosopher 
    Nietzsche's comments on ancient Athens. I don't have any direct 
    quotes here, but essentially he praised Athens and Sparta for 
    cultivating masculine instincts in its males. 
    
    According to Nietzsche, the cultivation of strength (the ``flexing
    of muscles'' mentioned in .6) is not a bad thing at all but is 
    _essential_ to the strength of the nation. 
    
    Even Plato, in his _Republic_, has a place for men who have focussed
    on nothing but masculine strength (the so-called ``guardian'' class).
    
    I think it's interesting that, as Western civilization supposedly 
    ``advances'', it increasingly denies the instinct for developing
    strength in the individual (what Nietzsche would have called ``the
    will to power'').
    
    Note 466.6 suggests what I've suspected all along: that A's and C's
    and D's are all relative, based on the relative value system of the 
    teacher (who has been shaped by society's larger forces).
    
    Thanks, Jim, for starting an informative topic!
    
    
    WW
    nothing but   

    
    	Re .30,
    
    	Yes, I agree about "Western Civilization" et al. They dont want
    to see a "higher consciousness" come about in *anybody* - heck,
    they wouldnt be able to sell you things based on impulsive sensation
    gratification! They dont want to see anything like "individual
    strength", they'd rather have all your problems, anomolies and
    contentions reported to them in full detail so *they* can TELL YOU
    WHAT TO DO with your personal life. Yes, Big Brother *wants* to
    be in your living room tonight telling you what to believe in and
    how to handle yourself. Perhaps we can get the ultimate product
    of Western Civilization (although it is debatable), the TV evangelist,
    to become President! Perhaps the orwellian "1984" *is* right around
    the corner.
    
    	Joe Jas

    >perhaps the Orwellian 1984 is right around the corner.
    
    Personally I think it is here.
    
    	We are not selling arms to Iran and never have
    
    	We are selling arms to Iran and always have been
                                                      
    
    						Geoff

    
    	We're doomed...
    
    	We'll never make it....
    
    	The rope will break, I just know it...

                        Myth of The Feminine Mystique
    
        "The women's movement arose because Betty Friedan and other
         witches came along and told women they were unhappy."
    
                                          -- Wicca: Wise Woman Irish
                                             Feminist Magazine, 1982.
    
                            Mythology
    
        "Mythology comprises a significant fibre of our lives. Stories,
        like dreams, can serve to release unconscious pressures. Seeking
        the legacy of the warrior, women contribute to the creation
        and re-creation of a positive female mythology. The building
        of a vocabulary of IMAGES is an essential element in our POLITICAL
        EVOLUTION. Imaging is a radical tool that can help us build
        inner confidence and dissipate crippling fears." -- Siew Hwa
                                          Beh, 1981. from 'The Politics
                                         of Women's Spirituality',
            
        "The Great Mother Goddess or Giver of All...gynocentric (Goddess
        based) religion...Dominator Societies..master-subject imagery...
        Worship of the Goddess..life sustaining elements..transformative
        powers of the Goddess...Goddess with folded arms and ancient
        rites, symbols, and cosmic eggs..The Divine Chalice containing
        the Miracle of Birth...The Goddess is part human and part animal...
        Goddess as serpent..as a snake sheds skin we can transform....
    
                                         -- Riane Eisler, 'The Chalice
                                                  and The Blade
    
                                    Myth
    
        Myths are "extraordinary lies designed to make people unfree."
    
                                              -- Angela Carter, 1983.
                                      from 'On Gender and Writing'
                                  "Notes from the Front Line"  London.
    
        "Something that never was but is always happening."
                                             
                                        -- Gloria Steinem, 1984 foreward
                                     to 'Goddesses in Everywoman'
    
                                 WITCH
    
         Women's International Conspiracy from Hell. Founded in 1967
       as a militantly activist branch of the U.S. women's liberation
       movement. One * hex *:
    
       "WITCH calls down destruction from Babylon. Oppressors: the curse
        of women is on you." Reborn in various cities as Women Incensed
        at Telephone Company Harassment, Women Inspired to Commit Herstory,
        etc.
                                         -- Robin Morgan, 1978.
    
                                   Masculinity
    
        "Is not the opposite of femininity. The starting point for under-
         standing masculinity lies ... in the asymmetrical dominance
         and prestige which accrue to males in this society. Male dom-
         inance takes shape in the positions of formal and informal
         *power* men hold in the social division of labor; greater male
         prestige includes, and is evidenced by, the greater *reward*
         which attaches to male than to female activities, as well as
         the codification or differential prestige in our language and
         customs. What our culture embodies, in other words, is not
         simply two stereotypes -- one masculine, one feminine -- but
         a set of power and prestige arrangements attached to gender."
    
                                          -- Jack W. Sattel, 1983.
                                       from 'Language, Gender, & Society'
                                  chap. "Men, Inexpressiveness, & Power."
    
          That's one tough definition, if I do say so myself.
    
    
                                                        Russ

       Went to my first WITCH Conf. last night in Cambridge. To quote
    guest speaker Sharon Welch "I hope it's true that the age of man
    is at an end!  Sisterhood is anti-Church!  Today's Post-Modern 
    culture is part of a cultural logic and is rooted in the 60's and
    it is rooted in Feminism."
    
      "Radical feminism plays a very important part in Post-Modernism.
    Radical feminism sheds light on contemporary feminism."
    
       "The stakes of the Movement involve a redefinition of power that
    undermines the current system...."
    
      Shedding "light", does it ever. 
    
    
                                                        Russ

    RE:10  I agree.
    
    RE:.17  I agree with you also.  It is amazing that we let strangers
    tell us that our children aren't normal.  Who's to say what's normal.
    I think psychology has its place, however, I think it has gotten
    much too overused.  I also think that all of these books written
    about society are dangerous in a way.  You can read one book which
    says one thing and another book which says the total opposite. 
    Both books would be written by Dr's and would be a result of years
    of research.  I would never take my young child to see a psycologist
    because then they might think that they are really screwed up. 
      
    
    I am a 28 year old male and I agree with .10.  Everyone has their
    own set of obstacles which need to be dealt with.  Instead of looking
    at how bad you have it you ought to be thankful for how good you
    have it.  Here is a poem which I have hanging in my office for when
    I'm having a "bad day".
    
                             FORGIVE ME WHEN I WHINE 
    
    Today upon a bus, I saw
    A lovely maid with golden hair,
    I envied her-she seemed so young-
    I wished I were half as fair,
    When suddenly she rose to leave,
    I saw her hobble down the aisle;
    She had one leg and used a crutch,
    But as she passed, she flashed a smile.
    
      Oh God, forgive me when I whine;
      I have two legs the world is mine.
      
    And when I stopped to buy some sweets,
    The lad who sold them had such charm,
    I talked with him-he said to me,
    "It's nice to talk to men like you,
    "You see," he said, "I'm blind."
    
      Oh God, forgive me when I whine,
      I have two eyes-the world is mine.
    
    Then as I passed along the way,
    I saw a child with eyes of blue.
    He stood and watched the others play;
    It seemed he knew not what to do,
    I stopped for a moment, and then I said,
    "Why don't you join the others, dear?"
    He looked ahead without a word,
    And then I knew he could not hear.
    
      Oh God, forgive me when I whine;
      I have two ears-the world is mine.
                                        
    With feet to take me where I go,
    With eyes to see the sunset's glow,
    With ears to hear what I would know,
    
      I'm blessed indeed.  The world is mine.
      Oh God, forgive me if I whine.
    
                                   (Author Unknown)
    
    It seems like it's easy to complain, I know how guilty I am of it,
    although, it is something I am working on.  
    
                                              Have a nice day,
                                        
                                              Mike