Conference quark::human_relations-v1

What is the term for the opposite, when the subject deals with
the "hate or distrust of MEN"?  I'd be interested in reading
material along this vein if anyone knows of any resources.

Penny

	all i could find was misanthrope....which is the hatred of 
    	*mankind*, which seems too broad for *man* in particular.
    
    	re. .0, is it being implied that domination is contingent 
    	to misogyny? or vice versa?
    
    	i would also like to know more about this.
    
    	d

    The "control" is the learned behavior. This behavior SOMETIMES results
    in the "hate of women". After reading this book I certainly do not
    believe that this is a one way street. I know of relationships where
    the woman must be the dominating force. I highly recommend reading
    this book. It is written by Susan Forward. Although I don't agree
    with some of the content I can certainly relate to a lot of it.
    I believe that it is this type of behavior that leads to many divorces.
    Many people are very much unaware of why they behave in such a manner.
    Examples:
    Belittling the spouse either in private or in public, usually both.
    Flying off the handle for the most insignicant reasons, not letting
    up.
    Pushing for sex, being rejected, further degrading the spouse, this
    of course forces the spouse to withdraw.
    General belief that the spouse cannot do anything right.
    Severe jealousy and mental cruelty.
    Accusations that the spouse does not truly love you.
    Accusations that the spouse is self centered.
    
    True Misogynists will not accept that they are responsible for this
    behavior. In these cases either the relationship remains miserable or 
    divorce occurs.
    Many people exhibit this behavior, the good of it is that what is
    learned can become unlearned. I believe that it can be done with
    true desire to change and be happy about yourself and competent therapy.

    Apparently there is no common word in the English language that
    means "hater of men."  I researched this question a year or two
    ago, and like the earlier response, the closest I got was "mis-
    anthrope."  
    
    One of the roots of "misanthrope" is the Greek word anthros, 
    meaning "man;" consequently, one definition of "misanthrope" *might* 
    be "hater of men."  Most often, however, it is interpreted as "hater 
    of mankind," the connotation being both men and women. 
       
    					andrew

    RE: .6
    
    That would be "someone who fears men", not the same thing.
    
    				Steve

        RE .4
        
        With reference  to  my  previous marriage, the items quoted are
        frighteningly accurate!!
        
        

    re. 0
    
    Not yet, but getting there!

    	.re .4
    
    	in the book does it say or *assume* that it is directed toward
    	a *certain/particular* personality/character type?
    	in other words can it be a particular trait within someone 
    	that brings out subliminal misogyny?
    
    	d  

    Re: .11 
    No it is not directed toward a particular character or personality
    type. However a woman or man who have been exposed to relationships
    where this type of abuse is present are usually quite a bit more
    tolerant of it. In other words if your parents had this type of
    relationship you would be more tolerant of this type of behavior.
    It is the person who is dishing out the "abuse" who is responsible
    NOT the person accepting it. The receiver's only fault in this is
    to tolerate this behavior. It further promotes it.
    When I say this type of behavior is learned I mean that it is usually
    learned from a young age. If Daddy treated Mommy like sh** then
    then Tommy may treat Susie that way. If Mommy treated Daddy like
    sh**, then Tommy may say no woman will EVER treat me that way.
    

    Anyone seen the new Hite report?  From what I've heard, there's
    some unsettling data on how women view their treatment by men
    in the new report, but I have not yet seen it.
    
    --Louise

    Re .4, .8, sounds a lot like a description of my former marriage,
    too.  :-(   That's how he acted about 75% of the time, the rest
    of the time he acted like the nicest man you'd ever want to meet
    in your life, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.  Of course, it started out
    he acted that way 25% of the time and nice 75% of the time.  Gradually
    it got worse and eventually I gave up on him.
    
    Lorna
    

        Re. 14
        
        Yeah -  that's  not  any kind of fun - it took about 5 years to
        get to the give-up point and the latter two years was about 90%
        and 10% - but the relief to be free of it!!
        
        Andy.

    re: .0
    
    Myhandy dandy dictionary (DEC issue) says the definition is correct,
    but it doesn't specify gender. It says "the hatred of women", but
    not by whom.
    
    re: .1,.2 
    
    If MISogynist is the hatred of women, then MRogynist must be the
    hatred  of men, eh ?  ;^)
    
    Humour aside, MISO comes from the greek misein and misso. The same
    book describes "gyn" as being gynecology, which is the study of
    women, so perhaps the hatred of men would be "misotestical" (??).
    
    Bob et trois (+3)

    re .4,.8,.14,.15:
    
    Me, too!  Do we all have the same ex-spouse, or is this more common
    than I thought??
    
    I don't hate men because of him, however!  Of course, my current
    spouse is a very sweet-tempered person.  I think the rotten temper
    was the hardest thing of my former relationship for me to deal with
    - never knowing when he was going to get furiously angry over some
    random thing.

RE       < Note 418.17 by CADSYS::RICHARDSON >
                                 -< Me, too! >-

    
  >  Me, too!  Do we all have the same ex-spouse, or is this more common
  >  than I thought??        
        
        Being as how I'm male (last I checked anyway) and you and Lorna
        aren't - I *hope* not!!
        
        Andy (note the deep voice)! ;*)
        
        

    It is EXTREMELY common. I want to clarify that although .0 mentioned
    hate of women, what I actually mean is that the treatment is such
    that you would think it is hate. It is control. When these types
    of relationships end, it is very painful because the person actually
    loved his spouse, not hated her. I keep hearing my ex-spouse, previous
    marriage, etc. Did any of you really try to work it out? Did your
    husband/wife try to change, through counselling or other means?
   

    I would have gladly gone to counseling (though I am FAR better
    off now!!  Good riddance to him!), but I didn't have the chance
    - he moved out and moved in with a girlfriend one weekend while
    I was attending a girlfriend's wedding.  He married her the day
    after our divorce was final, and she divorced him three months later.

    That's also common. If he did it once, he'll do it again. You're
    right it definitely takes two to work it out. I guess I'm the lucky
    one. 

    Re .19, there was a long period of time when I was willing to try
    to work it out with my ex-husband.  He used to say things like,
    "If you want to go to a counselor, go.  I'm not crazy.  I don't
    need one.  But, maybe you do."  He also used to say, "The reason
    I treat you so bad sometimes is because you deserve it.  It's the
    only way I can get you to act right."  Huh!  I'd rather be alone
    than stay with somebody who actually thinks I DESERVE to be
    mistreated!!!!  Yeah, I worked at it for a long time and then I
    got the hell out.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    
    re:-1  Me thinks not, it only takes one, but it had better be the
    guilty one.  If a man does not realize the behavior is inappropriate
    then nothing will change, one partner or both involved.
    
    re: all  I would venture to say that part of the problem with misogny
    is that men, in general, are not aware of the deep rooted causes
    of such behavior.  Men will see " macho " behavior as being one
    of the boys, a movie character, some misguided sense of "manliness"
    seems to exist.  My question is....What is the root of the malady??
    How many men have taken the time/energy to become aware of thier
    past and its effects on thier future??  I'm sure not all men have
    an abusive attitude, but I would venture to say that those who do
    have never taken the time to investigate themselves?  My guess is
    that awarness is the cure... what is the cause??
              
    
    the_wiz
    
    

The following reply is from a member of our community who wishes to
remain anonymous.




I'd like to take a few minutes to shed some light on the issue of misogyny
for you.  As the author of .4 points out his belief that this is not a one
way street, let me confirm that it is not.  

What I am about to share with you is how I came to practice this "learned
behavior" on my husband.  I hope you will bear with me and realize that I
am not a bad person, but a person fighting for her survival.

Seven years ago, I met a sailor whom I fell very much in love with and we
became engaged.  After his discharge from the Navy in April '82, I helped
him with all his expenses as he was unemployed and his family didn't care.
Within a month, he'd gotten drunk and cheated on me.  Said he didn't know
if he still loved me.  Why? Because I wouldn't give him money when he wanted
it.  Thus, a broken engagement.

He continued to chase me for two years after that.  Every time he arrived at
my apartment he was drunk and/or high on heroin.  Kept telling me he loved
me, but continued to tell me about the girl he'd slept with the night before.
Phone calls continued coming in at 2:30 a.m. (collect) and I continued to
deny them.  Then he lied his way through and threatened suicide.  When I
refused to fall for his ploy again, he really did try it.  Finally, he ran
away to the carnival, but I knew he'd be back.  And he was - in a month.
Still I told myself he was bad for me, but I really did loved him, too.
He moved to Florida to join his parents.

Two years ago, he arrived on my doorstep for what was suppose to be a
vacation.  He had no clothes, no place to live, etc.  I offered him room &
board for a month, and bought him a new wardrobe.  Soon, the party started
again.  The drinking, the friends, everything!  By the next month I'd found
him an apartment (Nov. 1985).  By February, '86, he was moving back in with
me.  I paid his back rent, bought him another new wardrobe, a car, you-name-
it, AND agreed to marry him AGAIN!  Within two months he dumped my car in a
brook ($3K damage), wiped me out of $3K CASH, and the fun begins.

I find out I'm pregnant; my husband never makes it home from pay day to the
following Monday (when he did make it home, there was $4 out of a $345 check)
because he's out partying.  It's AFTER the wedding, I find out I married a
cocaine addict, heroin addict, and an alcoholic!

The last 1 1/2 yrs of marriage feel like 10!  When my son was 6 wks old he
had no food because daddy was putting it up his nose & hypodermic needle.
Daddy doesn't hold a job well - In 1986 I filed 9 W2 forms and that didn't
include the under-the-table jobs.  Mommy supports a family of 3 on $18K/yr 
(thank GOD for DEC!) and just bought another car to get him around in.

He's better now than he was (6 mos. sober), but still knows how to push
those "hot" buttons.  I still don't know if the marriage will survive, but..

a) would you feel truly loved if this were your story, or could you make
   the accusation your spouse doesn't truly love you?
b) would you think them generous when you have given all I have given?
c) would you want to make love to a person who put you through this hell?
d) does it sound to you like my spouse "can do anything right" other than
   torment me?
e) wouldn't your nerves be so tightly strung that you could be capable of
   flying off the handle?
f) would you feel like much like boasting about such a spouse or more like
   belittling him/her for all you've been through?

I hope I have shown you how someone who normally not capable of the examples
listed in .4 can become that way.  I don't excuse myself because it is wrong
and I am working with a therapist and my husband to conquer these feelings.
I just wanted you all to understand the "other side" of the coin.

    Re .-1:
    
    I think you are doing the right thing in working with a therapist. I
    also believe you could get some help from ALANON, the group that works
    with spouses and families of alcoholics who are "addicted" to the
    alcoholic spouse that uses and abuses them.  From the sound of things,
    there was quite awhile that you knew what was going on, yet continued
    to take him back, and buy into his threats of suicide.  This is an
    addictive behavior too.  I believe there is a similar group that
    works with families of narcotics addicts.  I don't know what they
    are called, but the ALANON people should be able to point you there.
    
    I don't mean for this to sound negative.  I am just suggesting a
    source for help.
    
    BTW, you might want to read the suggestions in the note "Women who
    love too much".  I'd also suggest the book by the same title.
    
    Elizabeth

    re -.2:
    
    Go to EAP.  Then go to Al Anon.  For yourself.
    
    					andrew

    re .3 re .1  Misandry: Hatred of men, from Greek *misein* "to hate"
               + *aner/andros* "a man."  "Note that the word *anthropos*,
               from which misanthropy derives, means mankind in general;
               *aner* means a specific man."  "As of today, there is
               a word to express man-hating: misandrism; and if you
               are a man-hater, nameless one, you are now a misandrist.
    
                 If there is any truth to the theory that the assignation
               of a nameto an idea gives the idea validity, then mis-
               andrists now have a place in this .. world and a name
               under which they can unite to dispel the male indoctrinated
               theory of perverted female behavior. -- Marilyn Goldberg,
                                                   from 'On Misandrism'
    
               Means "(1) a refusal to suppress the evidence of one's
              experience with men; (2) a woman's defense against fear
              and pain; (3) an affirmation of the cathartic effects
              of justifiable anger." -- Ingrid Benis, 'A Woman's New
                                        World Dictionary'
    
               Should not be confused with *misanthropy*, a hatred
              of men and women, or *misogyny*, woman-hating.
    
    
                                                       Russ