Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    	Yeah, I can reply...
    
    Bought a new *car* last week...17, or was it 19K$, I dunno,,, -
    Dont think how much you spend has anything to do with "service"!!!
    
    They told me; "Sure! just drive it around - your "bill of sale"
    will satisfy any police officer"
    
    "Pull it over to the side of the road and find a different way home"
    was what the "police officer" said.
    
    Now, do you think they'd *pay for a tow* or come by with a *dealer
    plate*? Nope. "It's your responsibility, once you take it off the
    lot" they said...(BUT YOU JUST TOOK D.N. $20K OFF ME! DONT YOU HAVE
    ANY...) Nope.
    
    They then preceeded to muck up my registration during the rest of
    last week...didnt know, or have ready what was required...*I* had
    to take last friday off and "do it myself". Idiots.
    
    At this point, "customer satisfaction" would = "a punch in the nose".
    
    I guess, maybe *I'm* just too nice of a guy. I just cant understand
    how these people would not make *every effort necessary* to see
    to it that I would be able to drive my new purchase legally, or
    help me out in a jam. Expect the same!
    
    Oh, I get it - they're *Car Dealers*! Right down there with worms,
    snails, grubs and the real estate people (The basement doesnt leak).
    
    	Joe Jas

    re: .1
    
    boy, i'd almost bet money your car dealer was hallissey, in lowell,
    mass.
    

    re: .1
    
    i bought a new car in march...and like you i was pulled over..lack
    of sticker and such. i was very nicely informed "remember sir...you
    have three business days to register your vehicle". i don't know
    how long you waited, but it seems you got screwed. maybe the officer
    bought a car ay hallisy's...and it all came back to him.

    
    	Nope! Not Hallisey. Although I did stop in there - twice. Both
    times they scared me off with their high pressure stuff. I thought
    *this* dealer would be different...
    
    	Regarding .0, it really does seem that a lot of Mass business
    people treat the customer as a pain in the U know what, instead
    of the reason they're in business.
    
    	,,,like getting told "we dont serve breakfast after 11:30"
    	or "No one asked you to come here" etc.
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    This conference is really not the right place for griping about
    specific businesses.  Please take care not to generalize a few
    bad experiences to a whole class of people or businesses.
    Thanks.
    					Steve

    
    
    	But wait... I agree with that statement.  All my life
    	i've never seen such rude business practices and treatment
    	as i've experienced since i've been here.  Sure, you
    	can't generalize about ALL businesses in Massachusetts but
    	I can tell you [as a former ALIEN 8-}] that going into
    	a New York Deli in the Village and going into MANY shops
    	in this area is like night and day.  Cashiers don't say
  	'you're welcome' after you've said 'thank you', they
    	charge alot for not alot of food [my girlfriend works
    	on Newbury Street and they get $1.00 for a medium coke
    	and $1.50 for a bagel with cream cheese], and they generally
    	are not very business-like.
    
    	Of course, there is the "it's YOU" solution, but i'm willing
    	to overlook those for those people willing to discuss this
    	if they have similiar experiences.  Just point us where
    	to go?  This is a relational issue, don't you agreee?
    
    
    	

    If you want to discuss relationships with employees of businesses
    you patronize, that's ok here.  If you want to start listing
    places that have given you a hard time, take it to CONSUMER or
    SOAPBOX.  I've found good and bad car dealers and other businesses
    in every state I've been in, including Massachusetts.  I don't
    see any particular pattern.
    					Steve

    
    	Re -.7
    
    	Took the words right outta my mouth! (but wait!) Probably should
    not mention names, but there is a ring of truth to the issue. Where
    does the "I dont like you (the customer) or what I'm doing enough
    to care one way or the other" attitude come from anyway? Why is
    it that, in Massachusetts, a business person can *survive* with
    an attitude like that? I find the good and bad businesses too, but
    lately every other place I deal with is of the "bad" type - no matter
    if their slinging subs or selling cars!
    
    	Just who do we think we are!?!
    
    	Joe Jas
    

Here is an alternative theory...

Perhaps a great number of us were not born and raised in MA.  Perhaps in our
home areas we *knew* who not to do business with.  In MA we don't know who to
entrust our business to, and we fall into the clutches of shoddy business more
often.  Perhaps a sufficient portion of the MA population are 'foriegners' who
don't know who to patronize, such that shoddy businesses can prosper in MA.
Perhaps the 'natives' resent 'us'. 

Jim.

    I think the problem is that too many people are in it for the money,
    and only the money.  Times are good in Massachusettsright now, and
    there is a lot of money to be made.  Many people don't have time
    to "shop around."  So we are stuck dealing with the easiest people
    to find, who aren't always the ones who care about their crafts
    or about other people.

    Re:  .11
    
    I agree with you wholeheartedly.  Money is the root of all evil.
    
    When I started this note, I was soliciting similar experiences,
    the way people felt about them, and how they dealt with them.
    It was not my intent to instigate "name-dropping" or "state-dropping",
    but merely to get a poll on how people react in "monopoly" situations.
    
    I was trained in the hospitality industry down in Florida and the
    first thing you learn is the "customer always comes first" attitude.
    If you want repeat business, you have to treat the customer on a
    personal basis and make them want to come back by leaving them with
    a feeling of being treated fair.  When you don't have to compete
    for the business you tend to by-pass this approach!
    
    I think if you smile and are polite and courteous in dealing with
    the particular person, you deserve that same respect.  Sure you
    can't let them walk all over you (especially as a woman) I have
    to let them know I'm not ignorant and I understand the process
    involved and what has to be done and let them think I know the
    ball field as far as prices, and sometimes I do) but for the most
    part I start out pleasant.  Now if you storm in there like a 
    gang buster and demand immediate attention, they will probably
    reneg against you and make you wait out of spite.
    
    "I'M NOT GOING TO PAY ALOT FOR THIS MUFFLER!"
    
    (Spuds)
    Kim
    

    To debunk the "we resent you outsiders" theory:
    
    My family moved to Mass when I was in 3rd grade, and I lived here
    until I went to college.  When I finally got out of Mass, I was
    in for a big surprise.  I went into a store, and people were
    *nice*.  They didn't look like they were busy resenting me for
    being there and making me work, they didn't snap at me, they
    gave me service and actually sounded like they WANTED to give
    me service.
    
    When I moved back to New England, I was in for another big surprise.
    These people are RUDE!  I've never met such rude people as live
    in New England - sometimes I think that noone ever heard of
    courtesy.  Then I run into an exception - but the generalization
    still stands that New Englanders are cold and rude.  (I'm not going
    to get into the rathole about "it's only a generalization and I
    can find you some exceptions", of course it is and you can, but
    that's what a generalization IS.)
    
    It sure is refreshing to go on vacation to places like the west
    coast, dc, florida etc where rudeness is the exception, not the
    rule.
    
    --Louise

    Re 10, 14
    
    I think it's the college town syndrome.  I lived in Illinois where
    most people were *very* friendly, but I got some of the worst treatment
    from service people that I have ever experienced in Urbana, Ill
    (home of the UofI).  Maybe Mass is just a state full of transients,
    kind of a giant college town if you will, and perhaps that is the
    root...
    
    hmmm....  
    
    Mike (transplanted Massachusian, and yes, the people ARE rude here!!)

    
    	When I went to Ann Arobor, Michigan for a two week course at
    the university there, I frequented this Deli that made *really*
    good sandwiches, NYC style. They (actually) had a bathroom that
    customers could use. In this bathroom, there was a clip board, with
    *the initials of the person* who checked it's condition *on the
    hour, every hour* of the restaurants operation. Nice. Clean. I'd
    go there again. That impressed me.
    
    	Here? It's the exception for a place to even have one...
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    re .14,.17:
    
    I, too, have had trouble finding rude New Englanders. Not that there
    are none, but there don't seem to be any more of them then anywhere
    else. 
    
    I grew up in the South and the DC area, and you can find plenty of
    rudeness there. I don't know about New England as a whole, but when I
    first came to New England on business trips, I was struck by how nice
    the people in New Hampshire and Maine anyway, are. 

    	Jon

    I'm speaking of all the folks in any but the most rural areas.
    Seems like upper maine and nh and the more rural sections of
    vermont have nicer folks.  All of Mass is either urban or
    suburban (don't tell me about western mass - I consider that
    suburban), and mainly the "service" folk and the folk on the
    street are plain rude.  Look at the driving!
    
    --Louise
    
    PS. I went to college in Ohio, and people were lots nicer in
    the restaurants and shops there - even in the Cleveland airport!
    
    --L

    I was back east a while ago and I noticed the rudeness too. Seems
    like aggression is a way of life back there. People in the
    suburban SF bay area are lot nicer,friendly and laid-back.
    

    Re: .20
    
    Having spent two weeks in the suburban SF area over the past
    few months, I found some people there so "laid back" that they were
    totally unhelpful.  It's as if they didn't give a darn about
    doing their job.  But I did see friendly, helpful people just as
    I have in downtown Boston.
    
    I think the low unemployment rate in Mass/NH has a lot to do with
    it.  A lot of workers in low-pay jobs are the kind who are hardly
    motivated to do a good job, or else they could find a better one.
    I've certainly seen this in restaurants.
    
    I have a feeling that it all boils down to the notion that you
    remember bad experiences, and dismiss the good ones.
    
    				Steve

    I have no idea what "UCO" is.  I ran into this attitude in stores
    and restaurants around Santa Clara and San Jose.  But I also
    found good, helpful people too.  I just wanted to counter the
    gross generalizations that have been sprinkled through this note.
    
    		Steve

    re: .0
    
    "CLASSIC CASE OF RUDENESS"
    
    The worst possible case of rudess I ever have had foisted onto me
    was in a small town in Louisiana, by the proprietor of a small store
    who also has the "Bus Agent" for Greyhound.
    
    I had to get a bus to Michigan, because my wife was in the hospital,
    six months pregnant, with 2nd and 3rd degrees on her back, and I
    was in full military uniform at the time, and since it was only 900
    miles to Chicago, I figured I could get on an overnight bus. Sure enough,
    I was to leave at 7 pm, and arrive in Chicago at 9 am.
    
    Well, FIFTY FIVE HOURS later, my bus pulled into Chicago. We had
    crossed the Mississippi river several times, and I had to wait several
    times, sometimes for hours, in bus stations waiting for connections.
    
    Much later, I figured out the reason. It was 1962, and I had walked
    in through the FRONT door with a black "yankee" man who drove me
    to the bus terminal.
    

    The "funny part" is that due to space problems on the "USAF RBS
    Train" where I was stationed, I was living with a southern family
    (rooming) for $10.00 day which included two meals and some very
    gracious hospitality.
    
    "Rudeness" isn't location dependent. I've met "rude" people everywhere,
    but most of them have been either friendly or "don't cares". Its
    surprising how much a smile and a friendly "hello", "Bon Jour",
    "Guten Tag',"Buenas Dias" goes to making the "rudest" people politER.