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Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Title:	What's all this fuss about 'sax and violins'?
Notice:	Archived V1 - Current conference is QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS
Moderator:	ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI

Created:	Fri May 09 1986
Last Modified:	Wed Jun 26 1996
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	1327
Total number of notes:	28298

369.0. "Well and truly caught" by ECLAIR::GOODWIN (Pete Goodwin) Thu Aug 06 1987 12:29

    'Hello Pete, welcome to our coffee party. Would you like to talk
    about God?...' or words to that effect.
    
    The actual process was more subtle than that. I made a good friend
    prior to University. When I finally got to Univ. he switched on
    the heavy evangelism bit. Since I was friendly (and needed friends)
    and alone in a strange place, I accepted the offer. Unfortunately
    I listened to the spiel that went with it.
    
    I'd never been particularly religious before this. Now they had
    me asking questions, attending meetings, going to church etc.
    
    At the end of the first year ALL my friends were part of this religious
    group. I lost slowly all those friends I first made on the floor
    of the hall I lived in, quite simply because I tried evangelising
    them.
    
    Something crazy happened halfway thru; I still get frightening thinking
    about it. After it I was drawn in very close to the point where it would
    be difficult to back out (I thought if I did I would go to Hell).
    
    I went home after the first year. My parents reaction was 'What?'
    My brother laughed at me, 'You're going to church???'. I started
    to question, and slowly pushed it to one side.
    
    I returned to Univ. and had to shout these people out of my room.
    I can remember shaking with anger after one such confrontation.
    
    It was in my 3rd year I found another kind of group. They had no
    label as such. We shared a common interest (home computers) and
    that snowballed to other people. That was the time when I was happiest
    at Univ. One of this group was religious. I grew to respect him,
    quite simply because, unless *I* raised the subject, he would not
    mention religion. He gave me space to breath.
    
    That was some six years ago. I have drifted in and out of various
    religious groups thru that time. Only recently have I been able to
    'let go' of all the fear, pain etc. that I held inside.
    
    Who was this religious group? This particular group originated in the
    States, calling themselves Navigators. They claimed to be Christians. A
    better label is Fundamentalist Christian/Charismatic. 
    
    I'm not particularly religious now. I don't feel the need for it.
    I feel happier without the mentality of 'If I don't persue this,
    I'm gonna go to hell for enternity'

    Pete.

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
369.1		CSSE::MDAVIS	Cast a shadow...	`Thu Aug 06 1987 14:06`	13
	I find myself when approached by evangelists caught in the dilemma of trying to be polite but firm. I am sure their beliefs are sincere and they feel they are doing me the greatest service in sharing these beliefs. At the same time, my beliefs are somewhat different and I would never consider imposing them on another unless interest were shown by them. It's the old "your freedom stops at the end of my nose" syndrome. There is a Christian conference on the net if you'd feel comfortable conducting this discussion there... Press kp7 or Select. Marge
369.2		BUMBLE::PARE		`Thu Aug 06 1987 15:04`	1
	...don't do it Pete!
369.3	I'm out of that	ECLAIR::GOODWIN	Pete Goodwin	`Thu Aug 06 1987 16:09`	6
	I assume .2 means .1! Too late, I've been and gone there, and now I've dropped out of them. I found too many inconsistencies and contradictions. Pete.
369.4		GCANYN::TATISTCHEFF		`Thu Aug 06 1987 16:32`	16
	One very useful comeback when confronted with evangelists is, "sorry, I'm an Orthodox." They nearly always leave me alone after this. Not included in that statement is whether or not that is orthodox christianity, judaism, buddhism, hinduism, paganism, humanism, ad nauseum. Nor does it mention that while I _am_indeed_ a Russian Orthodox [christian :) ], I have not taken any of the sacrements in over a decade, nor do I expect to ever again in my life. People assume (and rightly, in my case) that them ortho's don't want to talk about it, that they don't need to "find him" because they were _born_ "with him" (or christened soon enough after birth that they don't know a time "without him"). It's an evasion, and a lie of ommission, but I get left alone... Lee
369.5	Oh, I'm CofE	ECLAIR::GOODWIN	Pete Goodwin	`Fri Aug 07 1987 08:56`	8
	That sounds good. I'll start saying, "Oh, I'm CofE" (Church of England) which actually isn't a lie since that's were my parents took me as a kid. Of course, I don't go there now... I do feel much happier dumping the 'garbage' they layed heavily on me. Pete.
369.6	If you can propagandize against, they can propagandize for...	YODA::BARANSKI	Remember, this only a mask...	`Fri Aug 07 1987 19:51`	7
	RE: .2 Now wait a minute! If you go around telling people not to get involved in religion, then you're as bad as an 'evangelist'. AntiReligion becomes your religion... Jim...
369.7	Orthodox ad Nauseum? where is that church listed?	NEVADA::HOLT	Rattus Occidentalis Excavator	`Sun Aug 09 1987 07:14`	1

369.8		MANTIS::PARE		`Mon Aug 10 1987 14:45`	17
	RE: .6 >>Now wait a minute! If you go around telling people not to get involved in >>religion, then you're as bad as an 'evangelist'. AntiReligion becomes your >>religion... >> >>Jim... I didn't tell him not to get involved in religion, ...I advised him against moving this discussion to the CHRISTIAN notesfile..... in light of his past experiences ... (thought you had me eh Jim? too slippery for you though_:-) Actually I'm a very spiritual person myself and am extremely interested in aspects of all religions...
369.9	one view	JETSAM::EYRING		`Mon Aug 10 1987 17:04`	11
	One thing I've always wondered about - If religion is such a great thing, why have so many wars been started over it? My own opinion is that we should teach children ethics, i.e., how to live in a crowded world without taking more than you give back, rather than wasting time teaching them that people with different views are "wrong". As a child whose family always went to church, I saw enough not-valuing-differences to last a lifetime. Sally
369.10	RE: .8 Oh well, better luck next time... :-)	YODA::BARANSKI	Remember, this only a mask...	`Mon Aug 10 1987 22:39`	0