| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 325.1 | | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | the Gort | Tue Jun 23 1987 01:01 | 13 |
| Faced with that situation I would have to cut ties.
After a very stressful time in my life I learned that is to the
advantage to remove sources of stress and go on with life.
One person would do very much as you described. I simply
explained that until their attitude improved they were no longer
welcome around me. This person was VERY upset for awhile and
then changed(to the notice of several others and myself) and
has become very pleasant to be around.
I think some people are like that just for attention and when
they findout that being nice works better they do that instead.
Tough question. I hope you can work it out.
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| 325.2 | Blood is thicker than water | USWAV3::WLIBBY | | Tue Jun 23 1987 01:54 | 19 |
| I have tried to severe a relationship with one of my parents but
have failed in my attempts because no matter what that person is
still my parent. I've never gotten out my anger at that person
and continue to play the role of the loving child. Most of the
time I just let things go in one ear and out the other and when
things get too "heavy" I just get up and leave. However, I do limit
my exposure to that person and visit only when both parents are
home. I've accepted that I can't change what happened in the past
and I can't change that person's attitude about life so I've tried to
forgive and forget and accept the person for who they are.
People may think I'm "copping out" and perhaps I am becauase I've
never confronted the situation with this parent but it's the way
I deal with it. Good luck....it's a tough situation to be sure
and one I've wrestled with for many years.
Wendy
|
| 325.4 | I try not to make that kind of "rules" | WEBSTR::RANDALL | I'm no lady | Tue Jun 23 1987 12:04 | 25 |
| If you believe that you can and should "control the quality of the
relationships around you," then you have our permission to sever
this relationship even if it is your parent you're talking about.
You might, however, want to try a tactic that I have over the past
several years to be much more productive: quit trying to control
relationships and just value the other person for what he or she is.
Forgive them for what they aren't and can never be. You don't have
to have "rules" that all your relationships conform to.
This is not easy to do. If you really start looking at what's valuable
and unique about the other person, any other person, you'll have to
give up a lot of preconceived notions. You'll find yourself making
friends with people who can't advance your career or give you warm
fuzzies about yourself -- street people who make you rethink all your
polite social liberalism, kids you used to think were juvenile
delinquents who turn out to be promising young adults with wonderful
visions of what the future could be, the woman down the street who has
four preschool kids who you used to look at with contempt because she
obviously doesn't know about birth control who turns out to be one of
the happiest people you've ever met.
Your parents are as good a place as any to start.
--bonnie
|
| 325.5 | Love & acceptance is a *lot*, but not everything. | ORION::HERBERT | Strive for harmony. | Tue Jun 23 1987 15:24 | 70 |
| Re: .4
I would like to respond to some of the things you said, Bonnie.
> then you have our permission to sever this relationship
???
I'm not looking for permission. I'm looking for feedback on what
others would do, or have done, with this situation in their own
life. I find other's experiences and feelings a valuable resource
in figuring out my own questions...and understanding the world
better, in general.
> quit trying to control relationships and just value the other
> person for what he or she is. Forgive them for what they aren't
> and can never be.
It appears that you don't think this was part of the scenario,
however, it was. I have found this a valuable attitude to have
too, but I do not think that it is the final answer/solution for
every situation. The Universe has many angles.
> You don't have to have "rules" that all your relationships conform
> to.
No, but why not? I think we all have rules on how we want to be
treated by other people. If one didn't, I would think they were
abusing themself. If we don't have "rules" for the quality of our
life, then how can we have preferences? I don't know anyone that
doesn't have preferences. It's natural and good to have them.
> If you really start looking at what's valuable
> and unique about the other person, any other person, you'll have to
> give up a lot of preconceived notions. You'll find yourself making
> friends with people who can't advance your career or give you warm
> fuzzies about yourself -- street people who make you rethink all your
> polite social liberalism, kids you used to think were juvenile
> delinquents who turn out to be promising young adults with wonderful
> visions of what the future could be, the woman down the street who has
> four preschool kids who you used to look at with contempt because she
> obviously doesn't know about birth control who turns out to be one of
> the happiest people you've ever met.
Bonnie, I love people very much. I am one of the people you would see
caring about all of these people you've mentioned. I don't have friends
based on what they can do for me. They "do for me" simply by being a
friend, sharing their lives, and loving. They don't have to act a
certain way or be anything in particular. But if they ABUSE me, if they
take out their anger and negativity on me repeatedly, I see that it is
better for both them and me to put a little distance between us.
I used to think that love was the answer in all situations. Now I think
that love has many forms. I can love someone without supporting their
bad behaviour. They can't learn from that. There are some people you
can love forever and they'll still be angry at the world and strike out
to hurt people.
Even love can be misused. Even people with the best intentions and most
loving hearts can get lost in a cloak of love, lacking wisdom and
awareness. Surely, wisdom and awareness used with love will find the
more beneficial path to take. Love is a good place to start...but it
doesn't stop there.
Every situation is different. There is not one particular way to act
or think or love for all of them. You may have sensed frustration in
the base note and interpreted that to mean a lack of love and acceptance.
However, it was just simple frustration...and that's okay.
Jerri
|
| 325.6 | I think I see | CREDIT::RANDALL | I'm no lady | Tue Jun 23 1987 15:48 | 41 |
| re: .5 --
I'm sorry if I misunderstood your base query, Jerri, but I saw nothing
of love in it anywhere, only judgement of this parent's failure to live
up to your standards. But with things this bad, I can see the total
frustration, and how I misread where you're coming from.
Let me make sure I have this straight now. You're saying, then, that
you can't accept any portion of this parent's behavior, any subset of
it, in any way, because this parent is so constantly and continuously
abusive that there is no possibility of minimizing the negative
behavior and focussing on the positive?
I can think of a number of questions I would want answers to before
I say anything more.
Is this parent abusive to everybody, or only to you? Is this behavior
fairly recent (say the past 5 years) or has the parent always been
abusive? Is it getting worse, or is it just continuing at the same
old level it always has? [I'm wondering if there is an underlying
medical problem that might account for some of this behavior.
Irrational abusiveness is often a characteristic of early Alzheimer's
disease, for example.]
Were you ever on good terms with this parent? Is there a particular
issue that makes it impossible for you to deal with each other?
[You mentioned the divorce as if that might have some bearing on
the angry feelings.]
I do think that being the parent/child relationship counts for
something more than a relationship with an SO, not because you owe your
parent your guilty duty but because you have many, many years of your
life invested in the relationship. This is one of the people who
raised you, and unless your relationship has always been this
unhealthy, this person watched you grow and develop, must have shared
some good times with you and helped you through some rough ones.
--bonnie, hoping I'm getting closer to understanding what you're asking
p.s. "Have our permission" was meant to imply that we can only give
you advice and support, we can't make the decision for you.
|
| 325.7 | | ORION::HERBERT | Strive for harmony. | Tue Jun 23 1987 20:16 | 59 |
| Re: .6
> but I saw nothing of love in it anywhere, only judgement of this
I think I talked about love in the fifth paragraph of the scenario.
I did not go into detail about my love because my main interest was
focused on the lack of fulfillment and happiness in the relationship.
If this relationship was concerning a friend or lover, I don't think
the question of *my* love and acceptance would be focused on as much
as the fact that the relationship was not happy or healthy. However,
because we're talking about a parent, there's a lot more to consider.
That may be detrimental, as well as beneficial, in reaching the best
solution.
> You're saying, then, that...
The parent and child have no common ground for communication. When
there is communication, it is far from happy or healthy. This is the
way the parent relates to the world and always has. A child is
trapped in a situation like this...an adult is not.
> this person watched you grow and develop, must have shared
> some good times with you and helped you through some rough ones.
I think this applies to any relationship...and I think that's why
breaking up any relationship is very hard, when you love the person.
Some of us will live through Hell for our parents. Sticking by them
(because it's the thing to do) no matter how they treat us. Some
parents have severe problems and this attitude of being a devoted
child is totally self-destructive in those instances.
Many parents would sadly turn their back on their child if that
child was to go off in their own little reality/world, destroying all
common communication, refusing to interact and love, and doing all of
the negative things listed in the scenario. The child's behaviour
might be explained..."We just didn't know what to do with her...",
"She's really spaced out...", "We have no choice...she disrupts our
lives too much...".
But in the reverse situation, it seems MORE unacceptable by many
people for a child to turn their back on a parent for the same reasons.
After all, (some think) the child "owes" the parents...and should
tolerate almost anything because of it.
We all have our worlds. Some are bigger than others, allowing more
in. We choose our friends and lovers based on the interplay and
compatibility of these worlds. There is no "right" or "wrong"...
just differences. But considering the effects of these differences
is a necessity in having any kind of control over the quality of our
own life.
ANYONE can choose to go off in their own little world...and it
usually doesn't affect anyone who doesn't want to be affected.
Unfortunately, when the person is a parent, the child can feel
dragged along and chained to that world...for life.
Jerri
|
| 325.8 | An alternative approach | BMT::LOKIETZ | Steve Lokietz, NYO, 333-6681 | Mon Jun 29 1987 20:09 | 37 |
| Jerri,
I feel for your situation; I have problems with my own father, though
not nearly as severe as the ones you describe. I need only to
extrapolate to get some idea of what you are talking about.
I agree that the bond to a parent is much stronger than that to
a 'significant other', in that blood ties have an amazing power.
However, to continue to tolerate abusive, insensitive behavior in
another often legitimizes such behavior in that person's eyes.
They feel it is OK as long as they can get away with it. Putting
up with it out of guilt or a sense of debt robs the offender of
the opportunity to be confronted with the destructiveness of their
behavior and the pain they are causing others (aside from the tragic
toll that it takes on the one that puts up with it).
If the person were not a parent, it would more often than not be
wise to cut it off completely. Cutting off one's parents completely
is a last resort. It may be best to stop seeing or talking to your
father, and only allow communication that you have complete control
over. You could write to him and explain how painful it is for
you to see or talk to him. These may be things you've already told
him, but he may be more prone to review your words and take them
seriously if he did not have the opportunity to vent his emotions
on you. You could continue to send him birthday cards, holiday cards,
etc. - to remind him that you love him as your father and would
like to have a more loving relationship with him. If and when he
comes to a point in his life where he can deal with you in a more
mature manner, he can communicate this change through the written
word, or initiate a phone call himself, or whatever.
It seems that you have a strong need and desire to let your father
know that you love him. This would allow you to do this and still
protect yourself. It has definite limitations, but serves its purpose,
and, importantly, keeps open the possibility of reconciliation.
Steve
|
| 325.9 | | SUBSYS::BUSIEK | | Wed Jul 01 1987 16:52 | 27 |
| -< Speaking from experience >-
I would like to add comments from a perspective of having cut the
ties with a parent. My relationship with my father was, for years,
a very depressing and demoralizing relationship because of the way
he acted. It is a long a drawn out story which I won't go into
now, but suffice it to say, no matter what I tried, he would not
change. About two years ago I finally decided to stop trying.
It was not an easy decision, but his input in my life made me so
upset and stressed out that it was necessary to keep my sanity.
I heard all the arguments from people about "he's your father, you
can't just stop communicating" etc..., but I did. The funny thing
was, as soon as I stopped trying, he began changing. Now, 2 years
later, he made the effort - he got in touch with me, and from the
first phone call, I knew it was different - he listened to what
I was saying! Now we get along pretty well - I'm still not too
sure I trust this new version to last, but I'm giving it a chance.
He actually apologized for the way he used to act.
I'm not saying that all problems with parents will change if you
stop communicating, but in my case it turned out to be the only
way to make him realize just how much he put me through.
Good luck with your parent, and don't worry about other people's
criticism - many times they just don't fully understand the situation.
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