Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Existentialists?? (I'm trying to figure what that has to do with
    saying "Hi").
    
    Perhaps the other person just didn't hear you.

    	- Rich

    re .0
    
    It happens to me sometimes, too.  Another thing that goes along
    with it is the situation where you're talking to someone, and another
    someone just starts talking -- as if you weren't even there. 
    
    I don't worry about it, I just clutch my throat and say:  
    
    		YIKES!!  I'm invisible again!
    
    
    jag

They're software engineers.... :-)

Jenna

    People complain to me frequently that I ignore them in the halls,
    etc.  It's because I am thinking about something else and just don't
    hear or notice them.  Sometimes, though, it's that I don't recognize
    them - I have a bad memory for faces.  It's most embarassing when
    someone walks up and says "Hi, Steve" and I haven't the foggiest
    idea who they are.  And there are people whose faces I know, but
    not the names.  I just can't break down and ask!
    
    				Steve

    
    Speaking as a J11, I have to admit that Jenna's right.  I see people
    I work with in the halls every day, and we don't always exchange
    greetings because neither of us may be on this plane, so to speak.
    It's an occupational hazard of being able to work away from your desk.
    
    I'm usually on the other end of Jane's complaint.  I'll pass someone
    I know in the hall without realizing that they're there until later.
    Then I'll feel linke some kind of loathesome vermin for not
    acknowledging them, but what're you gonna do....
    
    DFW

    A few times I have chased after someone who didn't respond to
    a 'hi' and repeated it. The response is always the same - tho
    they may have looked right at me they neither saw nor heard me.
    Bonnie J

Occasionally, I've challenged people that didn't respond when I attempted
a friendly "hello".

Several times, the challenge led to their revealing that something was
upsetting them at the time.

Then I felt a bit embarrassed at having been a bit nasty at them for
not saying "hello" back.

After a few experiences like that, I now tend to give people the benefit
of my doubt.

That is, if they don't say "hello" back, I might first assume they didn't
hear me.

If I'm sure they heard me, I might think they were shy, not unfriendly.

Often I've been pleasantly surprised.  The person that seemed to ignore
me one day says hello the next day !

In general, if I have an attitude of being a nice guy, people eventually
like me !

So, did you say "hello" to someone that ignored you ?  Try again, and
smile a little more the next time !

Hi.

/Eric

        I ignore people for a couple of reasons myself, none of them
        intended to be unfriendly.
        
        On the one hand, I have a moderately severe case of tinitis (my
        ears ring), and when it is acting up, I fail to hear quite a few
        things because I'm actively ignoring the damned noise. On the
        other hand, many people since my second grade teacher have
        commented that I am often "lost in the clouds" (or "lost in
        thought, it being unfamiliar territory"), and will fail to take
        notice of mundane things like doors, let alone quiet greetings. 
        
        On the third hand (we may have the makings of a Hindu diety
        before I'm through), I appear to be known by more people than my
        poor memory can keep up with (I guess I'm odd enough to stick
        well in people's memories), and at times the "Hello, <blank>" is
        waiting for me to fill in the blank well beyond the point where
        they've walked out of sight. I know I could just say "Hi" with
        no name at all, but the old brain started down the "Hello, <name
        goes here>" path and I can't seem to change gears any faster
        than I can think of the name.
        
        On the final hand (well at least there are an even number), I
        will at times react to stress by returning to the introvert ways
        of my childhood. A month or so ago when my wife miscarried at
        just about the same time as my father-in-law had a near-fatal
        heart attack and my car cracked first its head and then its
        block, I was only marginally human. Trying to talk to people
        could lead to bouts of tears. Just saying "Hi!" was too risky a
        proposition if I wanted to keep my composure. I'm sure I gave a
        couple of folk a real pause for a week or two. I'm most sorry,
        but I don't know how I could have avoided it.
        
        Other than being half deaf, bewildered, timid and a little slow
        on the uptake, I guess I have little in the way of excuse. 
        
        JimB.

    If it's before 9 a.m. and I'm heading toward the caf, chances are
    I haven't had my first cuppa.
    
    grins,
    Marge
    

    RE:.0

   {So what if they don't say hi, their loss right?


    RE :.3

    I love it.  

    
    	So others have trouble with names too? Interesting. Gee, I thought
    *I* was the only...
    
    	Sometimes, in order to remember a person's name, I have to really
    *try*; likely it takes a specific_mental_association to dig it out.
    I may do something like "Same as Greg's little brother" then I can
    say "hi Scott"!
    
    	It sorta bugs me when I casually meet someone, say, on the way
    out on a friday, we exchange names, the weekend goes by, and on
    monday I get a cheerful "hi Joe" and the best I can do is "hi-"
    <arrgh!>. I dont know how they do it. Do they have a "knack" for
    remembering names -or- do they *really try* to remember someone's
    name -or- did they come from a big family where there were lots
    of names to remember at an early age....or is my brain just "cooked"?
    (be nice)
    
    	Remembering someone by name is real important, as the little
    poem I "stole" off someone's office wall will attest to. I've added
    one idea -
    
    		"Making contact" by Virginia Satir
    
    	I believe The Greatest gift I can concieve of having from anyone
    is to be seen by them, recognised by them, heard by them, to be
    understood and touched by them.
    	The Greatest gift I can give is to see, recognise, hear, understand
    and to touch another person. When this is done, I feel contact has
    been made.     
    
    	Joe Jas
    
    	

    Re: .12--
    
    Thanks, Joe!  That's pretty neat.  Maybe that's why it bothered
    me in the past when I felt I was being "invisible". :-)
    
    I enjoy this notesfile for a number of reasons--the best one is
    that it always gives you another slant on your issue.
    
    Next time I get silence in response to my 'hi', I'll try to give
    the benefit of the doubt.  It won't stop me from trying it again
    the next day, though! :-)
    
    Jane

    I never forget a face . . . and I never remember a name.  Probably
    a difficulty with the search algorithm. So when somebody I know
    I know says "Hi, Bonnie" I usually just say, "Hi, how ya doin?"
    Self defense.  
    
    A friend of mine who has a job where it's critical to remember people's
    names says that you can learn to do it simply by practicing.  She took
    some kind of memory-aid course that's often offered at places like your
    friendly local library.  The first thing they teach you is that when
    you meet a person, while you're shaking hands, you repeat the name
    right then and there.  Most of us just say "How do you do," having
    never even heard the name clearly in the first place. 
    
    However, this doesn't account for forgetting the name of a woman I've
    been working with here for almost six years, which is something I did
    yesterday!
    
    --bonnie 

    
    Re: .0
    
    Jane, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who notices that 
    situation (a friendly "Hi" that you *know* was heard and was ignored) 
    and is somewhat bothered by it (mainly after several sequential times
    of it happeneing with a given other person).  Generally, I now tend
    to reason that it's not a problem with me, just that the other person
    is simply *rude*!!
    
    Re: .? & .?
    
    I also remember faces but tend to forget the names of seldon met
    people.  I don't view this as a reason/excuse for not even saying
    "Hi" or "Good Morning" in return to my similar positive greeting
    of recognition.
    
    						Joe

    I usually say "hello" in response to a greeting, but I also have
    a bad memory for names.  People I've known for years will suddenly
    have no name - fortunately I can get away with it; they've got
    good senses of humor and respond to "hey, what's-yer-name!" with
    a laugh at my expense.  Sometimes I omit introducing someone to
    a friend I'm with because I can't remember their name and am too
    ashamed to admit it.  Hopefully the friend I'm with will introduce
    him/herself - it's easier for me to admit failings in introduction
    etiquette than in memory of names.
    
    All you folks who have good name memories - it'd help if you'd come
    up to seive-brains like me and say "Hi, Louise, I'm Fubar the Robot,
    from that memory management class you took....".  The second or
    third time it'll usually stick.
    
    --Louise

    As one of the guilty, let me add a couple of points, in explanation if
    not defense. Not only do I tend to be shy, to be thinking of other
    things, and to have a lousy memory for names - I'm also rather slow of
    reflex, *and* I walk fast! 
    
    So, here I am, charging down the hall at warp speed, head down, either
    daydreaming or trying to work out why my program is access-violating.
    Suddenly, from out of the blue, a cheery voice says, "Hi, Beth!" I
    jump, look up, and by the time I've recognized the speaker - if at 
    all - he or she is vanishing into the distance. The best I can usually 
    do is give a quick smile of recognition, and *sometimes* a return "hi". 
    I can almost never reply with, "Hi, <name>," unless the speaker
    has stopped altogether.
    
    It has occurred to me more than once that the aggressive "hi-ers" may
    be reinforcing their social status; it's almost as if they have to
    touch base with everyone they know every time they see them. As a
    militant introvert, I find it mildly distracting to have myriad little,
    tiny claims for attention intrude upon my walk. So, while the first
    party may feel slighted if the second doesn't acknowledge a greeting,
    the second party may be miffed at having his/her train of thought
    interrupted... (Insert wry smile here. Sometimes it's too easy to
    take offense where none was meant!)
    
    Still, it *is* nice to have one's existence acknowledged now and
    then.  And I hate to cause anyone discomfort, and feel terrible
    if I think I've slighted anybody. So, I'll say hi when I can manage
    to react in time, if you'll forgive the times when I stride on with
    a zombie-like stare. It isn't personal; trust me!

    -b

    Some of the people who say "Hi, Ann" to me are people I'm sure
    I've never met, but, what the heck, I say "Hi" back.
    
    The hard ones to deal with are the people who say "Hi" when they
    are so close to me that I can't react until they're past me.
    
    Remember, it takes three-quarters of a second to make a physical
    response!
    
    							Ann B.

    One other point of view.  I was always very nearsighted and never got
    glasses until just before high school.  By then I had developed a
    rather small radius around me that I would "pay attention" to because 
    anything beyond that was beyond my sight.  Even after I got my eyes 
    corrected and even to this day I still pay attention to only a pretty
    small radius around me.
    
    And people walking in hallways were definitely "off in the distance"
    to me.  In school that was much too far away to see anyone so even
    though now I could study each and every face I passed in a hallway
    to determine if I had ever spoken to that person before or not, it's not
    natural to me and seems to take time and focused mental effort and
    the result, (an occasional "hello"), just isn't worth constantly
    and consciously monitoring the parade on a daily basis.
    
    For the record though, if I hear a hello I DO focus my attention
    and respond.

    I can testify that Jim Burrows, Beth Ravan and Ann Broomhead are all
    distinctive enough that probably many people know them by reputation
    and just want a feeling of greatness bestowed by being acknowledged in
    the hall by these DEC celebrities...  Perhaps Jim, Beth or Ann might
    even recognize me without a necrophone nearby   ;-} ;-} 
    
    In my case, I find that if I am absorbed in something else [frequent
    processor state] that the brain fires the "Hello" response, but
    the voice seems to prefer to remain dormant.  Several times I have
    had people repeat the greeting, only to discover that the memory
    remembers giving the order, but the ears never heard my own voice!
    
    My stock answer for people who's faces ring a bell but who's name
    I haven't a clue is "Hi, How are you?"
    
    					--Doug

        "Deep in thought?" Who me? Nah, I've never walked into a door
        because I wasn't paying enough attention to notice it was there.
        Well, hardly ever.
        
        JimB. 

    Doug,
    
    Sure, I'd recognize you -- even with your clothes on!  ;-)
    
    							Ann B.

    RE: .7
    
    Hi, Eric
    
    (Just saw your note)

    RE: .14, .16
    
    A little on the side, the issue of remembering names. I too am terrible
    at that --  names and numbers. I *think* I am good at remembering
    images (read it faces, places etc. etc.).
    
    Could it be that some people's memories are of a different design.
    I first realized this fact when someone pointed out (in a communication
    class) that I was saying 'looks like' to someone when I really meant 'sounds
    like'.  It dawned on me that perhaps the visual input was more
    effective on my brain than the aural input.
    
    When I meet a person a second time, I can mostly remember where
    and how I met h_im/er; but names are another matter. Sometimes, I
    have forgotten the name as soon as we have stopped shaking hands.
    Maybe my brain is processing the huge amounts of visual data at
    a high IPL blocking out the aural data. Sorry if I sound too VAXish.
    But I do hear all the Hi's coming my way. Maybe I have hit upon
    the reason why some people dont respond to Hi's  --  their brains
    have turned off all aural inputs.....
    
    Any opinions??
    
    BTW: After reading all the replies, I will probably cease to feel
    bad when someone doesnt respond to my Hi. Most probably they do
    not have anything against me. Specifically, one person who almost
    never responds. I have decided to make life easier for me and him
    by not saying Hi to him at all  --  after maybe 100 or 1000 attempts
    with maybe 5 half-Hi's in response. 
    
    Imran

    	
    Its interesting to see so many with similar feelings.  I read two
    articles with ideas that have stuck with me concerning "Hi".  The
    first one dealt with what the author called "The right to impact".
    It was his idea that one of our inalienable (sp?) rights as a human
    being  was the right to have an impact on others.  It made
    sense even if I can't do it justice here. He proposed that we all
    have a right to have some kind of an impact on others and to have
    our exsistence acknowedged, at the very least.  We all need some
    kind of impact on others to maintain our sembelence of sanity (don't
    know why I insist on using words I can't spell) This is why, to be
    ignored is so unpleasant. We need to have our impact acknowledged
    with a returned "Hi", a smile, a nod or grunt.  Something.  Or we
    are offended to an extent porportional for our need for impact at
    that time.  It kinda sorta made sense and I try to allways give
    others this recognition of their impact.  When I can remember. 
    
    	Like a lot of other people, I have trouble remembering.  Especially
    names.  My mother told me when I was a child that I was absent minded
    like my dad.  I accepted this diagnosis of my mental defficiancy
    untill I read another article by.... I dont remember.. but it impressed
    me also.  It must have I remember reading it. It stripped away my
    favorite excuse as it explained there really is no such thing as
    "absent minded".  My security threatened I continued.. "It is just
    sloppy thinking habbits"!.  Gadzooks! Now what do I use for and excuse?
    I can't say "Im sorry I don't remember your name because I have
    sloppy thinking habbits!".   It is nice to know that there are others
    with this loathsome malady.   
    
    by the way "HI!" Im new to this conference.  Glad I found it.  Now
    I can deal with something truely meaningful (Hi?)
    
    Love it
    
    gary -
          

    Do you have a mum or dad (or both) who dont' seem to be able to
    get their children's names correct??  There are three in my 
    family and our names seems to interchange with regularity, along
    with various Aunts (it matters not the sex!).
    
    If our parents can't get it right, what hope have we???????
    
    Joan, Siobhan, Liam, Dot, Les.............................
    ........etc...
    

    re .27 yup ! my mother always confused my 4 sisters names,
    saying the names in birth order 'til she got to the right
    name. my yoiungest sister was Denise-Janine-Yvette-Lisa
    till the older three moved out :-)

        Rattling off names until you get to the right one has been a
        malady of my family for at least three generations. Could be 4
        as Brendan occasionally mixes up his two younger brothers. I
        think my mother was the worst of these. She'd call out "Ruth,
        Evelyn, Katerine, Ann, Katey, John, Jim!" at me. Well, Ruth is
        her sister, Evelyn her aunt (or Ruth Evelyn is her suster),
        Katherine her mother and her daughter, Ann is Mother herself (or
        Katherine Ann her daughter), Katey her daughter (suggesting the
        preceding two were her mother and herself), John and Jim her
        sons. Once or twice the names of one of the dogs would wander in.
        All in all small things like generation, sex, and even species
        didn't seem to matter as she searched for names. 
        
        JimB. (aka Ruth Evelyn Katherine Ann Katey John Rusty Jim Jimmy) 

    Jim - I'll have to remember to call you "Rusty", but I have a
    bad memory for names....
    
    --Sue-Nan-Louise

    Like Jim and others, I seem to be known to far more people than
    I can name.  I have another problem which exaggerates this in that
    I have poor eyesight.  I often cannot make out someone's face until
    they're almost past me, so it's even harder to recognize people.
    				Steve

    re: the remembering faces and not names:
    
    According to the research into the areas of brain function, visual
    memory and verbal memory are performed by different areas of the
    cortex.  Facial recognition is a specialized area of visual memory. To
    actually "know" who you're talking to, your brain essentially has to
    look up the face in visual memory, dig the matching name out of verbal
    memory, and then get a response to your vocal chords. 
    
    Stroke victims often suffer damage to the area that coordinates
    this matching process.  Symptoms are often bizarre. 
    
    There is a peculiar and uncommon though not unknown brain/personality
    disorder that involves damage to this area of the brain. Victims
    can look at someone they've known for years and not recognize them
    until the person speaks or otherwise triggers the verbal side of
    the memory.  
    
    There's a book with a title something like "The Man who Thought His
    Wife Was a Hat", by a noted brain researcher, that deals with some of
    these issues. 
    
    --bonnie

    re whatever-note-it-was-talking-about-being-absent-minded:
    
    Don't let some pointy-headed psychologist rain on your parade; what do
    they know, anyway? If you tend to forget things of be off in a clound,
    you're absent-minded.
    
    	Jon 

    Of course, there's the observation by a ZK nurse that we engineers
    are so unaware of our surroundings that we keep walking into walls.
    For a long time after her remark was published, many of us made
    a deliberate effort to walk into walls when she was around.
    
    				Steve

    
    re: .28
    
    Maybe it has something to with being born in Springfield...:-)
    
    My mother still calls me "Rob-Ju-Chris" (my sister's names are Roberta 
    and Judith), even though Mom's in Florida now and Ju and Chris live in 
    the eastern part of the state.
          
    CQ
    

    My youngest when she went to kindergarten for the first day, when
    asked what her name was - right in front of me in a little wee BIG 
    voice said:
    
    "Becky, Jenny, I mean Rachel", I thought I was going to die... and
    the teacher looked at me, and said "I think I found the class clown"...
    
    I never get the girls names straight :-)
    
    GLK

    RE .35 >being born in Springfield
    
    cheer up, you could be working here !  :-)

    I AM USUALLY SO DEEP IN THOUGHT WHEN RACING DOWN THE HALLWAYS I
    DONT SEE OR HERE ANYONE. IT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION ON
    OCCASION BUT I HAVENT BEEN ABLE TO CORRECT IT. 
    

    In this particular plant (CXO) I gave it up.  I don't worry about
    saying hi.  If it happens, it happens, if not, oh well.  I used
    to get extraordinarily pissed when saying hi to someone, only to
    be bypassed in silence, or have the eye contact shift away at the
    last moment, only to have person stumble over themselves and
    breaking their neck to try to reciprocate.  I used to want some
    serious revenge somehow, some way.  Now it's no biggie.  It's
    expected to happen, frequently, ya know?
    
    Sherman

    I have a lot of customers, and they all seem to know me, but I can
    only seem to remember the ones who come back...
    
    One point not yet explored: I am not in the habit of saying ANYTHING
    to men I don't immediately recognize.  Even at DEC, the old fear
    dies hard.  At wimes I can be coaxed to smile, but that is only
    when I feel VERY safe...
    
    Lee

    re 314.41
    
    ah, Bob
    
    tis prob'ly cause most women react warmly to kids and enjoy
    talking to them - were I to meet you and your 7 year old I would
    be apt to talk to him/her first.
    
    Bonnie

    re: people saying hi to your 7-year-old
    
    We've noticed three kinds of people who say hi to our cute curly-haired
    but rather loud and active 3-year-old:
    
    young married men
    young single women
    people of either sex old enough to have older children 
    
    This happens mostly in stores since we don't hike very often. 
    
    Young married women, especially when they're with their husbands,
    tend to look at him like he's some kind of dirt they wish they could
    sweep under the nearest rug.  

    --bonnie
    

    re .36
    
    Reminds me of the Bill Cosby routine about himself growing up.
    
    "I was sure that my name was g-ddamn and my brother was son-of-a-b".
    

Usually, when I wonder something like "why didn't that person say hi?",
I can think of hundreds of vastly different reasons, and occasionally
I find out the *real* reason, and it's usually none of what I guessed.

So, I was just wondering.  Hi, Jane!  Did you ever find out why whomever
it was didn't say hi to you that day and motivated you to start this
topic here ?

/Eric

Jane -

I think saying "hi" and responding to other people has to do with personality,
sensitivity, and awareness (ignoring mental/emotional problems). I've noticed
a tendency among engineering types to be deeply preoccupied at times. I've
also noticed an almost militant "I see you every day, don't bother me unless
it's important" attitude. Attitude towards other people is important. If you
are a sensitive person, you expect others to be similarly kind and curtious.
I have become an "aware" person by various life experiences, including
encounter sessions. Sometimes I long for the days in the encounter sessions
when almost everyone had broken down the barriers of insecurity and
introverted behavior and was open and caring. A lot of it has to do with
trusting other people and fear of being hurt if we open up. The world is a
"tough" place and almost everyone in it is a stranger. Competition in school
and on the job can be fierce and traumatic. You come to rely on yourself and
a few close friends and family. Much like the near sighted responders, a
persons world can become small and enclosed in protective layers of
indifference and "mind games". Then perhaps, as happened to me thanks to
a DEC course, a person may get back in touch with his/her emotions and reach
out in friendship once again. People (friends) are much more important than
computers.

cheers,

daveo

    I agree oh Hiker, I almost had to beat you over the head at a
    contradance to get a hello!  
    
    Lee

    re .49 What did you have to do for a dance ?  :-)

RE: .48

Oh, really, I thought that was some kind of fancy swing... :-)

Jim.

Some people exhibit ________.

Fill in blank with a word meaning "paying attention only to people to whom
you feel sexually attracted".  Is there such a word ?


Such people would, for instance, be real friendly and attentive (say "hi")
to someone who's "of interest", and they might totally ignore someone
who's "not a possibility".

For example, at a dance, a man exhibiting ___________ might ignore other
men, but be real friendly towards women.

Other people, though, exhibit a more balanced interest in people, showing
genuine interest and friendlyness to a broader cross section of those
present.

/Eric

	I've often faced both sides of this interesting topic.  The person
	who says "Hi" and doesn't get a response as well as the one who has
	someone say "Hi" and it does not respond.  Not intentionally, but for
	some of the same reasons already stated.

	I also now better understand those who appear to ignore me, but it's
	still puzzling when someone looks you straight in the eyes and you
	don't get a response.

	My reasons for appearing ignorant are poor eye-sight (almost always), 
	deep in thought (sometimes), and (occasionally) rushing off to the lab 
	to the aid of an ailing system will do it.

	In regards to those who always seem to remember your name I've noticed
	many folks in service organizations, specifically Field Service are
	very good at remembering names.  It always amazed me, like the way
	some of my teachers at night school made it a point by the second or
	third week to know everyone's name in the class and I found it tough
	to remember a mere two teacher's names.
	
	I think it's related to storing the information in the first place,
	i.e., often I have been introduced to someone and as we quickly
	start talking I realize I never really caught their name, hence
	this makes it difficult (impossible) to ever recall it.

	If my memory of a college psychology class is accurate it makes sense
	that if information is not first stored in STM (short-term memory) then 
	it won't ever get transferred to LTM (long-term memory). 

	I believe STM is most vulnerable to interruptions as you may have
	noticed while trying to remember a phone number after just calling
	information.  You get interrupted and then end up needing the number 
	again.

	"Hello to everyone!" - if I should pass you by in the halls of the Mill!
	Don't take it personal, I know I won't, anymore.

	- Jim