Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    sorry about the spelling error..(fell should read feel)
    

    Try 2 things:
    
    1. Go ahead and cry. It usually helps.
    
    2. Share your problem or concerns with a good friend (a good listener)
    
    
    Gary

    Ah, yes, this is something I understand well.  In my opinion,
    it's ok to say "poor me" once in a while, as long as you don't
    let it get out of hand.  I believe the human species need to
    sit and "lick it's wounds" every once in a while, and I'm 
    certainly no exception.  It's to your advantage, however, to
    get up after a while and move on.  It's sort of like walking in
    a snowstorm.  You need to stop and rest once in a while, but if
    you stay in one place too long you're going to freeze to death.
    
    I've been in a situation recently where I have felt things were
    "beyond my control".  I'm still not too sure they aren't now!
    However, I did a lot of walking and thinking and, yes, feeling
    sorry for myself.  And after a time of this it began to get
    humorous, the "poor me" situations becoming more and more ridiculous
    in my mind until I actually laughed.  And then I realized that 
    no matter how bad it looks, no action from another human being,
    however small or large, is going to destroy me unless I let it 
    (death is a natural exception to this rule.  But then, of course, 
    death doesn't get your spirit now does it? :-)).  I had my control
    back, I felt better, and I moved on.  And yes, it got better, not
    necessarily because the situation improved, but because I now felt
    I could handle it.  And that's 9/10's of the battle.
    
    There's nothing wrong with a little indulgence, and long as you
    keep in mind you're indulging, not adopting a new way of life!
    
    Mary-Michael Cochrane  

    If things are kind of awful, then it's all right to feel bad, and
    any frustration at not being able to change the things is probably
    okay, too.
    
    You just can't let it stop you from living your life.  Your life
    will proceed apace without checking to see if you are keeping up.
    
    If you have someone that will listen to you describe why life is
    sucking eggs right now, go ahead and tell them about it.  Just letting
    someone else know can improve things millimetrically.
    
    Dave W.

    It's happened to me, too.  Talking to a friend can help.  So can
    going out and finding some new activity to keep your interest. 
    What I found was that as long as I had the "poor me" syndrome, I
    was paralyzed - I couldn't do ANYTHING constructive.
    
    And then there's always the Ann Landers/Dear Abby advice - nobody
    can take advantage of you without your permission.
    					Steve

     You're already way ahead of the game ... sometimes it can be terribly
     difficult just to recognize that you're feeling sorry for yourself.
     
     How about treating yourself to something that you might not ordinarily
     do/get?  Maybe go to a show in town, or indulge yourself with some
     nice clothes, or take off for a weekend somewhere.  It's nice (though
     occasionally expensive) to be nice to yourself. 
     
     --Mr Topaz

    God knows that our family has had reasons over the past three years
    to feel sorry for ourselves (one of our kids has a very serious
    illness). But we haven't, simply because God does know! We deal
    with the pain and sadness by prayer *and* by sharing this with others
    who care. It really is true for us that giving some of our pain
    (and anger) to God helps us through some unbelieveable situations.
    
    I will tread carefully here...don't want to come across as a fanatic.
    But we have seen first-hand the power of prayer. Three years ago
    I was very skeptical, today I am convinced there is someone who
    listens to us. Maybe doesn't always do what we want, but certainly
    does listen.
    
    Tim Horgan
    

    I want to thank all of you for the quick response and care!
    
    Thank
    you!
    
    I expected all of you to be very hard on me - and you were actually
    quite easy.
    
    A lot of the suggestions were very good, but we can forget about
    the "something special" - I will certainly talk to the man above
    though!
    
    He is about the only one who will have the power - if even he does
    - to straighten out this mess.
    
    I do feel better - and the situation hasn't changed since I last
    wrote.
    
    Again, thanks for the suggestions.
    
    

    re:.7
    
    One more comment - I will also pray for your child!
    
    I am so very fortunate not to have those kinds of worries.
         

    
    I can understand only too well (fortunately or unfortunately) where
    you are coming from and where you are now.  Having been there in
    the past, and from time to time now, I understand what you are feeling.
    
    The feeling that there are many things happening to us that aren't
    in our control can be a real downer.  I usually find that if I spend
    some time thinking about exactly what things I don't feel I have
    control over. Then I think about each of them and often I find that
    I actually do have control over some of them (to some degree or
    other) or that I can control to some extent the outcome of some
    of those that I realize that I truly don't have any control over.
    Often I will feel better realizing that I do have more control than
    I felt I had.
    
    It IS important that you recognize that you are feeling sorry for
    yourself, and has been said in so many of the previous REPLYs, that's
    definitely OK to do as long as it doesn't drag on forever. (I really
    like the analogy in one of the previous REPLYs of walking in a snow
    storm - a very accurate way to describe the situation).
    
    Crying can very often be one of the best forms of constructive therapy
    you can give yourself and doesn't depend on anyone else.  An
    understanding friend whose shoulder is comfortable for you to cry
    on can also help a lot.  Depending on your own personality, the
    type of friend who would help you the most now might either be one
    who just "listens" or one who will offer caring advice.  If you
    can determine ahead of time which will more fill your needs, you
    can tell that to the friend you are sharing your feelings with.
    Often crying is needed for you to feel better enough to be able
    to think about what you can control.  Feeling sorry for yourself
    can also be what helps the tears start.  While it may feel like
    feeling sorry for yourself will never stop, it rarely works out
    that way.  This may seem hard for you to believe right now, but
    in time you will realize that yourself.
    
    There are people here and in your life who do understand and care.
    
    					Joe
    

    I have felt the way .0 describes.  I remember discovering that
    exerting control over some area helped a lot: thus when I was 
    unemployed after college and was getting nowhere with job-hunting,
    I found that making it a habit to go running every day helped.
    The real enemy you fight in such situations is paralysis.  Do
    something, exercise control and creativity and your mind or body
    somewhere, and you'll feel a lot better, even if the "big picture"
    does not change.
    			-John Bishop

    Another very important idea - don't put yourself down because you
    feel this way. Something in your life has hurt you and you have
    every right to feel hurt. Be angry, be hurt, be frustrated, get
    into those feelings - you are an intelligent, sensitive human being
    with the right to react to negative situations. THEN you can get
    on with all the previous, very sensible, suggestions given here.
    
    Stel

    Its kinda like cleaning the kitchen floor.  You could mop with just
    clean water, and it would get clean (sort of) but it would be a
    lot of work.  On the other hand, you can put some detergent and
    ammonia in the water, and make quick and thorough work of it.  I
    think self pity is similar.  I find that inviting Jack Daniels
    over to listen to Waylon and Willie sing sad songs can empty the
    self pity bucket very quickly, compaared tojust feeling sorry for
    myself.  My only concern is whether I am wasting the feeling 
    by experiencing it that intensely.

    RE: -1
    
       I agree, a bottle of your favorite blend, and some sad songs
    helps out quite a bit.  Don't get into a rut though.  Sometimes
    it can be hard to pull out of it!  Just think of all the good things
    you have!  8) 8)
    
    						Phil
    

	A suggestion I'll pass on:

	"It's ok to be sad, and to cry... BUT, try to limit it (to an hour
	a day, perhaps), then put aside your grief and try to concentrate 
	on something else."

	As mentioned in previous replies, there's nothing wrong with feeling
	sorry for yourself if there really are "bad things" happening in
	your life.  After all, if these things were happening to someone else, 
	you'd probably offer them sympathy and support, so why not do it for
	yourself?  

	The trick is not to dwell on how bad you feel and/or are being 
	treated, or you may end up just feeling even worse....

		HH

	-this may be a good point to put in another plug for the Employee
	Assistance Program - who can provide someone to talk to and referrals
	to other professionals to help you work on solving your problems, or 
	just to help you deal with them (if they are indeed insoluble).

    re .11 - John, that's exactly what I was thinking of saying.  For
    me, if it's warm enough out, I go and pull weeds out of a section
    of the garden and then stand back and say "There!  I beat *that*
    one!"  and things seem better.  If it's not, I do some cleaning,
    maybe with some of my favorite records on (if I'm really PO'd
    about something, J. Joplin helps me be angry in tune, and if I'm
    really sad I'll put on something with upbeat energy, like Tiajauna
    Brass (sp?)).  It really helps to show myself that there's
    SOMEthing I CAN control.
    
    Then I usually sit down and make some lists up with column headers
    like What's Wrong, What I Want It To Be, What I Can Do, Who Can
    Help, etc.  Doing that helps me to look at the problems more
    clearly; helps me to separate them out into parts that I can
    handle; helps me figure out what it is that I want; helps me
    find solutions, even partial ones, that I may be missing.

    --Louise

    I agree with the last few about not holding back on an emotion that
    your body wants to work through.  In fact if you know what to expect
    you might be able to help yourself through the steps.
    
    I'm thinking here of Elizibeth Kubra-Ross' 5 steps of greif from
    "On Death and Dieing".  When I know I should be greving the loss
    of something or someone I make sure I go through these steps:
    
    Anger
    Deniale
    Barganing
    Depression
    Exceptance
    
    What ever step I am at I try to put a little concisis effort to
    work through the feelings at that step.  I usally loop around
    the first 4 steps a few times before I get to 5.
    
    There are times though that the feeling you are having is not
    the correct one but only a way to avoid what you should be
    feeling.
    
    My "POOR ME" feelings are sometimes of this type.  When someone
    treats me bad or things do not go my way sometimes I allow myself
    to think "Oh poor me. It must be because I don't deserve any better."
    
    The correct responce might be "God damit I deserve better than this!!"
    Don't be so afraid of your own anger that you take a hit to your self-
    asteem when you deserve to get mad!
    
    						MJC O->
    
    
    

In the enviroment I grew up in, it was not considered OK to lose
control of oneself. From that simple premise came out quite a few
things.

Drinking --except in great moderation-- was simply not done (too
loud a laugh after the second or third drink would be like to die
socially).

A dentist would probably give you an injection before pulling a
tooth. Many, I imagine, would give you novocain for a root-canal
job, but not all (Once, I let a yell out when, during a root-canal,
the guy went through the root into the jaw. He gave me novocain
after that, but I will never forget the look of contempt that
accompanied it).

With the group I grew up with, feeling sorry for oneself was
simply not acceptable. It was quite all right to be angry. A
cry of the jungle was OK, crying with tears was not. That doesn't
mean one couldn't sneak away for a while and do ALONE whatever
turned one on. It simply means that on hour-to-hour, day-to-day
living, one was expected to grin and bear it without too much fuss.

I don't know that this mind set is better than others. Give it a
try, though. It works for me, it may work for you. When your'e
feeling really down and out, when your world seems to come to an
end, do not allow yourself self pity. Instead, BE ANGRY. If you
must, hate someone (or something). Then, do something very physical.
Break something (smashing something that breaks with a lot of noise
can be real satisfying). If no one is around in a radius of a mile
or two, try yelling out loud.

Then, forcefully and delibrately, forget about the whole thing. Go
back to living. The pain won't stop. Just ignore it.

"Easier said than done" you say? Hell, no. Not if you really make
up your mind. Just do it!

-- Ron

    Well!
    
    Good day!
    
    Glad to see that all of you are still there with support, but it
    looks like you won't have to catch me afterall.
    
    I'm not sure how, when - but I feel like I have a little control
    again.  I am absolutely positive that it was all of you that made
    me gain it back.  I have been going home evenings and sleeping this
    stuff.  I worked my butt off this weekend (per the suggestion of
    a few individuals) and I really felt good.
    
    I still feel good.
    
    And I have to admit, the anger keeps jumping into the scene now
    and then.
    
    Oh, by the way, Jack Daniels wasn't available for a visit - but
    it sure was nice seeing Seagrams' Friday evening.....
    
    Thanks to all of you.
    
    
    

    
    re: .20
    
    That's 'cause Jack was with me, having a nice long talk over some
    Wagner...
    
    Dave W.

When I feel down on myself...  somewhat like what I imagine some people feel
like when they think of suicide, except that I don't think of taking that rather
permenant step, and I feel lethargic, ... what I do is go for a looong walk,
hike, run, ride, or swim.

A lot of times what I do is just head in a particular direction with some very
distant goal in mind.  And I just head in that direction and muse ...

A lot of times when I do this, it is fairly nasty weather out, and I get dressed
very well, like I'm to be out in the weather all night, which sometimes I am.

What exactly I do, is just keep walking as if I'm headed for the end of the
Earth.  I keep walking to the End of the Earth, untill I feel like turning
around and coming back.  When I start out, I'm quite willing to believe that I
might not be coming back; but I allways do.  Sooner or later out in the
wilderness something (of God) creeps into my soul, and I feel better and my
problems seem more managable with at least partial solutions, and I turn around
and stump my way home. 

Sometimes I walk a long ways, to the next town or so, waiting for something to
happen (to me), thinking 'here I am, now what?'.  Sometimes I sit for a while in
the middle of nowhere and think, and thoughts seep into my brain; lying in the
middle of a snow bank on a hill in a clearing next a river in the middle of the
forest... thinking, and listening to the snow and wind, and watching the snow
fall down upon me. 

Eventually my rear gets cold and I get up and and head back home for some hot
chocolate and sleep...

Jim.

PS this may not be what you wanted, but that's what came out....

Now that that's done with, maybe I can argee that if you feel out of control in
your life, one of the best things to do is something constructive that gives you
a chance to exert your control (not over others!).  Cleaning is always good,
especially if it's something that you've been meaning to "accomplish", but
something reasonable.  It will give you a sense of accomplishment.

Do something that you are good at or gives you a sense of accomplishment. You
don't have to be the best at it...  For example I go figure skating of play my
flute.  I can hardly say that I am the best at them, but then I never wanted to
be, but they are accomplishment's of mine...

I can't say that I think too much of getting angry...  I'd much rather someone
or me feel sad for a while then be angry.  Sad is a feeling.  Anger is a
response behind which a feeling is hiding.  Don't hide your feeling...

Jim.

    Some people may think this a bit harsh, but my personal opinion
    is that using any kind of drug (even/especially alcohol) to
    run away from ones problems can only get you into deeper trouble,
    especially if you start relying on it.  Even if you only tell
    yourself you're not going to do it often.
    
    When I was feeling miserable, I too got the frequent suggestion
    to "drown my sorrows".  Sorry, but I don't work that way.  If I
    can't handle my problems without chemicals, I'm not going to do
    any better drunk.  And I'd be terrified of becoming dependent on
    the booze, or whatever, to keep me feeling good.  I even ended
    my therapy a bit soon because I was afraid I was becoming
    dependent on it - I had to learn if I could handle life on my
    own.  It was rough for a while, but I made it and AM making it now.
    
    The first time you start using booze (or anything else) to try to
    SOLVE some problem, rather than just enjoying it for its own
    merits, you're in trouble.
    
    Please understand that I am not criticizing anyone in particular,
    especially not Laura, whom I know.  I just want to point out that 
    some people may not be strong enough avoid dependency on drugs if
    they start down this path.
					Steve

	Misery loves company, right?  

	I find that I have a musical sort of barometer going on... "hmmmm,
what do I FEEL like listening to ?"  If I feel up then some bouncy type music,
maybe some reggae or The Brandenburgs or early Beatles.  And of course if I
feel down, I get into sad music.  Blues, of course.  Maybe some Dylan,
Blonde on Blonde has been a soundtrack for breakups ("you say you got some
other kinds of lovers/yes I believe its true!").  And the good 'ole
Grateful Dead have the full spectrum of emotions for me to chose from -
from Not Fade Away all the way down to Death Don't Have No Mercy in This Land.


so when I listen to tunes in my stereo, be they happy or sad, I say to myself,
"Gee, someone else out there is listening to this stuff too, and for the same
reasons... so I am not alone....".  You can count on the person who WROTE the
music to at least be partly into the emotions that you are feeling as you 
listen.  So, thats One Other person in the World....

Of course, my problem is sometimes I'll stare at my record/tape/CD collection 
and just NOT be able to figure out what I feel like listening to!   guess 
that means I don't know what I want (from Life), right???  :-)

	Josh

    
    Just remember one thing,when things are going bad "BUNKY".
    Look at the bright side "THINK POSITIVE",PERSEVERANCE,is the key
    Smile and say GOOD MORNING"it sure workes wonders.
    

Yes, i too have recently been a victim of PMS.  I found that a nice vacation
(and i LOVE vacations) away from it all does wonders.  I just returned from 
an exciting and pretty much spontaneous 2 week west coast Canada->Southern 
Calif. jaunt.  It gave me an opportunity to meet a lot of new people and also 
get my mind off of my own problems, at least for a while (I even met a DECie 
from Winnepeg on the ferry to Vancouver island)!  Things don't seem as 
disjointed, anymore.  Major changes are due to occur in my life shortly and i 
needed the time away to find the direction to take and i think i have it 
figured out.

Try it if you can, it's a great excuse to be good to yourself.

			-jim-

	WOW!!!  I thought I was the only one to have discovered how
    therapeudic a week at the beach can do for you!  Surfing, sunning,
    you name it (we even built an enormous sand castle), the point is
    the pounding surf does something for you (I think it has something
    to do with negative ions - somebody from HOLISTICS want to join in?).

	There's only one way that I know of to continue surfing without
    going to the beach, and that is: Net-Surfing!  Net-Surfing is now
    in full swing, contact me for details...

							-davo

    Hey guys, haven't read this is a while - but I reallize that I have
    really gotten my act together.  
    
    You were all right!
    
    We do have the power.
    
    

    Glad to hear it, Laura!  Keep up the good work!
    
    				Steve

    Bear with me, I've got only 9000+ unseen notes to read before I'm
    up-to-date!  I'd like to stop off here though, and respond to this
    note.
    
    I'd have to agree with Steve's comments about not climbing into
    a bottle to find solutions.  Alcohol can be enjoyable, but I would
    be very wary of attempting to solve any problems with it.
    
    Somebody said that anger is not a feeling, it's a reaction.  I'd
    disagree with that.  Anger is just a much a feeling as "sad" is
    a feeling.  What one does with the anger is the issue.  It's OK
    to feel angry; it's not okay to beat up somebody or take a gun
    and climb a tower and shoot 45 people because you're angry.  Those
    are unacceptable reactions to anger.  There are, however, plenty
    of acceptable ways to express anger.
    
    As far as the original topic of this note is concerned: sure, go
    ahead and feel sorry for yourself.  Who has a better claim on your
    feeling sorry emotions than yourself?  And go ahead and cry.  
    Somebody said, "Tears water our growth."  Somebody else said,
    "Tears aren't the pain; tears are the healing of the pain."  Don't
    worry about it going on forever; it probably won't.  A therapist
    (see below) can help if it does seem to be going on forever.
    
    It's important to be aware of one's emotions, and to express them.
    If your emotions feel "stuck", I highly recommend counseling/therapy.
    There are all kinds of therapists, and you can get one who can help
    you get out feelings.  It took me 7 tries (I think) before I found
    the right therapist for me.  (I knew it was the right one when I
    walked into her office, sat down, and began to cry.)  Before I got
    into therapy I had no idea what therapy could do for me, or why
    I would ever want it; in retrospect (8 years after), it was absolutely 
    the best thing I ever did for myself.
    
    Try different things; go to workshops, groups, almost anything.
    I ended up trying all kinds of weird things.  Some of them helped
    a lot, some of them didn't do much, if anything.  I found I couldn't
    predict in advance what would be helpful and what wouldn't, so I
    just waded in and tried things.