Conference quark::human_relations-v1

re: .0,
    
>    I just wonder if the club still exists considering the chances people
>    would be taking re: disease.  I wonder, but I'm not traveling over
>    200 miles to find out.


	...me neither.  I can't imagine joining a club like that where you
    wouldn't know or care about anyone there, you might as well go to a
    whore-house.

	Either way, you're risking your life fooling around at clubs like that
    these days.  What with AIDS, hep, gohno, syph, and herp, not to mention
    all the loonies who probably hang-out there! 

	I think that promiscuity with people who you know is one thing, but
    with total strangers?  I mean sure, they'd have some kind o "group-grope-
    therapy-sessions" to warm you up first maybe, but you've got
    to be kidding yourself if you expect to walk in and be guaranteed of
    having a good time.

							-superdavo

re: .0,

	Sure SEEMS like it might be fun though!

							-david

    Oh no!  From "The Three Faces of Eve" we go to "The Three Faces
    of Dave"!  Can you handle it!?
    
    On to the subject at hand.  Self-preservation is a big factor
    with me.  I would avoid anything like that at *all* costs.  Also,
    I like to have some sort of emotional attachment to people I'm
    intimate with.  Screwing around with J. Random Stranger doesn't
    appeal to me at all.
    
    If disease wasn't a problem, would I do it?  No way! And as far
    as using sex to close business deals, etc., nobody ever better
    expect "favors" from *this* lady, cus they ain't gonna get it!
    
    In case they don't realize, a bordello may be a business, but a
    business *isn't* a bordello!
    
    Mary-Michael

    Swapping, Definition:  Boredom with spouse and/or life.
    
    jd/
    

Wonder if anyone else has seen the video from which the "previous version"
of this notesfile took its name?  There was a segment in it about a
"swing club" and their annual "convention" in a city somewhere in the
midwest.  Naturally, there wasn't much business (in the usual sense)
conducted at this convention, but there was a great deal of group
hot-tubbing, "swapping" via posted notices, room/suite parties, etc.

The hosts of the program interviewed a few of the attendees.  They were
all quite positive on swinging for themselves, and some said they had
been doing it for several years or longer.  All the members and attendees
in this particular club were couples (hetero), and that seems to be
typical of such groups.  Several said that the man first became interested
in swinging and pursuaded the woman to try it, but that the woman then
became quite in favor of it.  All interviewees agreed that swinging
isn't for everybody though, and if your marriage/relationship has problems
to begin with, swinging isn't the way to deal with them.

There was some mention of STDs in the discussion, e.g. "it's considered
poor etiquette to come to the convention if you've got anything
contageous".  Also, "some people routinely take penicillin over the
weekend".  However, it really wasn't clear what the incidence of STDs
is or how likely one is to catch something.  At least, it wasn't
sufficiently clear for me...

Anyhow, from this and other evidence, one can draw a few conclusions:

1. "Swinging/swapping" is still a fairly widespread and ongoing activity.
What percent of the population engages in it as a specific activity
(as distinct from occasional non-monogamy) is probably not known.

2. It generally involves couples, and the activity (i.e. sex with a rather
large number of different partners) is not generally destructive to the
couple relationship.  I have no data on whether the breakup rate of couples
engaged in such activities is statistically different than that of other
couples. 

3. Some women and some men are capable of enjoying sex with someome without
a strong or ongoing emotional committment to that person. 

4. The problem of STDs is not yet so severe as to completely discourage
everyone from swinging or other forms of promiscuity.  It may even be
that swing clubs are sufficiently concerned about STDs that your chances
of picking up something are somewhat less (per person) than in other
more common situations.

    
    I like at least *some* illusion of romance in my life!
    
    Lorna
    

    WHY GO OUT FOR BURGERS WHEN YOU CAN STAY HOME AND HAVE STEAK?

    I've seen the word illusion if reference to love used here.  And
    a lot of criticism dircted at the morals and sincerity of those
    who don't think and act like the given majority.  
    
    Let's keep in mind that our sense of morals and sexual relationships
    were formulated most part by Puritanical principles that have died
    years ago.  The Judeo-Christian training we got keeps the majority
    from venturing new relationships.  Also, we are a only a part of
    the world population.  Other cultures find our sexist attitudes
    somewhat ludicrous, especially when very few of us display satis-
    faction with what we believe in and the high rate of teenage sexual
    problems.
    
    Tolerance is not one our best qualities when dealing with sexual
    issues.  We tend not to experiment with that part of our lives
    and contiually experiment with the least tangible (i.e. our emotions).
    It's too bad we've boxed ourselves in so much... it leaves little
    room to grow.
    

re: .10,

	Excuse me, but who are all those "us" and "we" pronouns refering to?
    This is a world-wide conference if I am not mistaken...

								-davo

    p.s.  I can't say that I'm not guilty of the same ethnocentrism.

        Could you provide us of an example of a non-sexist culture from
        outside the Judeao-Christian tradition? At least so far as I
        know, the vast majority of the Third World cultures tend to be
        at least as sexist as we are. The "new" and "old" worlds of
        Europe and North America are all dominated by the same
        Judeo-Christian traditions as we are, except for the Eastern
        Bloc countries which have attempted to reject religion and
        "decedant" traditions, and they are quite sexist. (Just name a
        powerful female comminist leader.)
        
        Also, when you say that "very few of us display satisfaction
        with what we believe in", and that we have a "high rate of
        teenage sexual problems", would you say that it is those who are
        satisfied with or those who are dissatisfifed with the
        conservative sense of morals who have the high rate of problems?
        Off hand, it would seem to me that those who believe in
        fidelity, the sanctity and permanence of marriage, chastity and
        the like, have less in the way of problems with things like
        problem pregnancies, divorce, and sexually transmitted diseases
        than those who reject the traditional values.
        
        JimB.

    WHY STAY IN FOR BURGERS WHEN YOU CAN GO OUT FOR STEAK???!!!
    

    re: 13
    
    If you had wanted steak, you shouldn't have gone to McDonalds.
    
    
    
               Carol

    Gee, *I* always thought that all the "BEEF" comments referred to
    *men*.  Are you guys sure you like "beef"?
    
    --L ;-)