Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Sorry to hear that you are having this problem.
    
    I don't recall ever saying that to a man.... and know i never will
    now! ;-)

    I've never heard that, and would be very offended if I ever did.
    I was married to an older woman (though not much older), and have
    dated other older women.  If it doesn't bother them, it doesn't
    bother me.
    					Steve

    
    I don't think I've ever said any of those things to a younger man.
     But, as for calling "older women" insecure, look around at the
    emphasis placed on youthful beauty in our society and you might
    be able to understand how a woman who is getting "older" might feel
    a little insecure.  Afterall, who would you rather date Brooke Shields
    or Margaret Thatcher?
    
    
    Lorna
    

    How about a merger of the two... take Brooke Shields eyebrows
    and Maggie's Cute dimples on her cheeks.  8-}

    Yes, it bothers me greatly.  I have even had some ask me if it
    bothers me that they are x years older than I and when I say
    
    "Only if it bothers you"  they say fine.  Next thing you know
    they are dangling the carrot (Like they were upset that you said
    it didn't bother you and they want to try to bother you anyway...)

    Michael,
    	I don't understand what you mean by "dangling a carrot".
    	Are these women tempting you with something? I'm confused.
    Sue

    I have dated some women a few years older than me but I haven't
    had the age carrot held over my head. Only one time do I recall
    hearing the "When I was your age..." or "When you get older you'll
    understand" line. Since I only heard it from one person out of many,
    I simply politely dismiss it and think of it as their hangup and
    not mine. Considering the circumstances, I think it was her immaturity
    smiling through.
    
    There is a difference between physical age and mental age. Some
    people don't grow mentally and others pass there physical age with
    their maturity. Ain't human nature strange?
    
    Why even bring up the age difference in your next relationship,
    Mike?

    I have learned to ignore it totally (my current "friend" is 3
    years older than me).
    
    3 years or 30 years, don't let the age difference stand in the way
    of a good relationship.
    
    Mike

    I dated a woman three years older, and we used to razz each other about
    it, but it wasn't a real problem.   On the other hand,  I have been in
    other situations where age is more of a factor.  It seems to be
    more a function of how both parties look at it...
    
    							--D

	My turn.  I have stated before that I had dated three women who
    were over six years my senior in my life, but never have I had to deal
    with anything quite this humiliating.  I would think that if the age
    barrier is becoming an overbearing issue, then it's probably time to
    reexamine the whole relationship.

	My philosophy is somewhat similar to the one described earlier,
    except that I'm not quite sure I believe that we all are quite born
    as equals (oh boy, here I go...), you see, I believe in a form of
    reincarnation to the extent that some people are born with a slight
    bit more experienced soul than others.

	The way this is translated into my philosophy is that everyone's
    body contains a soul of some age or another.  A person's soul has an
    age to it which relates to how long it's been hanging around this part
    of the universe (SET TERMINAL/COSMIC).  The fact that some souls are
    younger than others is just the way of the universe (I justify it by
    simply saying so - it's my belief, so noone can put it down).

	Anyway, the result of this added twist to my perception of
    people, is that there are going to be times when you will meet some-
    one who's body is physically your senior, but who's soul is much your
    junior.  On the other hand, you will get a very eery feeling when you
    run into someone who's body is physically younger than yours, but who
    you intensely realize (depending on you extra-sensory-perception) is
    somehow cosmicly far wiser than you!  This is awesome when it happens,
    but you can bet that nobody will let it outwardly sink into their
    defense mechanisms when it does.

	My conclusion is this: your current girl-friend may or may not
    be a compatible soul-mate for you, but you'd better make sure that she's
    got a soul you wouldn't mind being buried next to (i.e. for eternity),
    if you want to plan this far in advance, because the afterlife is where
    the souls either play, or they come back for another shot at it.

							-davo

    p.s.  If your not ready to settle down, then don't worry, that's normal.
	Most souls are fairly habitual livers (as opposed to eternal lovers).

    
    I usually subscribe to the theory that age is not relevant to a
    relationship but have also found times when not so much the age
    but the point you are at in your life becomes the issue.  The only
    reason I say that is because at different ages in our lives we reach
    different levels of what is considered normal to us.. sometimes
    this is what causes us to be different rather than the actual number
    in years.
    
    
    
    I have a very best friend who is male.  I met him when I was
    twenty-five and he was twenty..  We have gone out over the years
    more times than I could possibly count but always as just the best
    of friends.. I remember one time a few years ago he took me out
    for Valentine's day.. I had forgot my I.D. but decided it probably
    was not a big deal anyway.. On the way in the restaurant I made the
    comment to him that if they carded him and not me I was leaving..
    (I was only joking) but somehow I know deep down inside I was thinking
    everyone in the place would know I was 5 years his senior..  as
    it turns out *I* was carded he was not and I was refused a drink
    because I did not have my I.D. on me.. did we laugh or what!!! 
    Now, either of us ever makes mention of our age difference
    in such a way more than at birthday time or something similar!
                                       
    later, gailann
        

        I can sympathize with Mr. Mahler's lady friends, although I
        can't commend them on their tact. From the venerable age of 35,
        I find that a lot of what I see in whipper-snappers of 20-25
        reminds me a lot of myself at about their age, and that strikes
        me as very young. 
        
        You don't want to tell them that they are wrong or bad for
        feeling and thinking the way they do--we all have to go through
        that and learn for ourselves. But if you are with someone a lot,
        issues will come up where the different perspectives intrude. It
        is very tempting to put off debating, discussing or fighting
        about it with the old "when you're my age" or "when I was your
        age" lines, and figure that time will run its course.
        
        The problem is, as the topic note shows, that this sort of line
        doesn't really accomplish what you want. It gives the impression
        that you feel superior to them just because you've aged and the
        haven't. That just isn't going to sit well. (It also shouldn't
        be true, but it takes work to avoid it).
        
        I guess the point is that it may very well be that beacuse of
        who you are and where you are in your life, you may really
        strike people 10 years your senior as very young. If they are
        diplomatic, they either won't let on or will attempt to make it
        a positive thing. If you're going to hang around with old fogies
        you just need to learn to not let it get to you, but of course
        that's hard when you're young. :-)! ;^)!
        
        JimB. 

    Lots of interesting answers and imaginations here.

    RE:.4   Dangling a carrot is a figure of speech (no, I don't
	    assume you don't know that, but that is all the way
	    I meant it).  

    RE:.6
	    Mike, what makes YOU assume that I(!) brought it up.
	    These women are the ones who bring it up AFTER they say
	    it doesn't bother them.  They also bring it up AFTER I tell
	    them my ture age when all along they thought I was around
        'their age'. You sound really smug coming off so condscending
	    under assumptions.  These women are NOT just 3 years
	    older, but 10-20 years older.  I would expect more maturity
	    and sensativity from an elderly person 8-}

    
		    Geritol all around bartender.

    Sorry to imply that you had brought it up. I gues it should have
    said  "Why not ignore the age difference IF it is brought up".
    
    If you read a little closer, my point was that physical age and
    mental age are 2 different things. You can't judge someone by their
    physical age only. I've seen 35 year olds act like 15 year olds
    and then there are the 25 year olds with the maturity of 40 year
    olds. This goes BOTH ways.
    
    As we say in Marlboro, "Don't let the turkeys get you down."
    
    Mike

    Mike, I just re=read my .11 and came on a little bitter it seems.
    Please forgive me, just that I was quite p'eed about it all.
    
    Really, when you get down to it, it is a form of
    discrimination.  Just substitute 'age' for gender, race
    or religion.

    ADD ENTRY VIKING::WOMANNOTES...

    Aw, c'mon, folks, what we have is a simple dynamic here!
    
    Women of our generation have known our whole lives that we must
    please and be deferential to men because they have the power to
    give us love, jobs, money, status, identity ... ad nauseum.
    
    Now we find ourselves in a more egalitarian society, and when 
    faced with a younger man, the desire to see him as no threat, as
    a man who holds no power over us whatsoever is absolutely tantalizing
    and almost impossible to resist.
    
    It's a feeling of exhilaration to be able to look at a man  and
    not feel that culturally sanctified status difference and it's such
    an unusual situation, few women can let it pass without comment.
    
    Since money confers status as well as age and sex do, the same dynamic
    occurs between wealthy women and middle or lower-class men.
    
    The little comments are designed not to put him down but to build 
    her up and to reinforce within herself that in this particular
    instance, she is not the standard, demurring female awaiting his
    lead and taking his cues, and it's so different to feel this way
    there's no ignoring it.
    
    I think it's just this status difference that you are responding
    to when you say it aggravates you, Michael, because you, (like most
    American males), are used to women who react rather than act.  But
    actually a woman who is not "afraid" of you or "wary" is much more
    relaxed, deals with you much more honestly and openly, has no need
    to manipulate or play games, and is much easier to get to know and
    enjoy.  After dealing with a few such women, the idea of the passive,
    demurring female seems less and less palatable.
    
    So if she has a smile on her face and a twinkle in her eye and calls
    you "just a pup" you can be sure she is not putting you down, but
    building herself up and is most likely thrilled to be in this en-
    counter where the "male" is just another human being.  Who could
    resist? It just feels so different, so long awaited, so good! 
    
    Sandy
    
    

    Oh, you mean like if I said:

    
	"Just a girl !"?

    

    "Old men give good advice --
    
     to compensate for an inability to set bad examples."
     
    Dick
    
    P.S. *I* can cook; but can she drive a tractor?	:-)
    

    Yes, it's exactly the same as when you say 'just a girl'.
    
    Or when you hear a frightening noise at night and say 'just the 
    wind'.  It reduces a perceived threat in your mind.
    
    Maybe I misunderstood.  If these women are really looking down on
    you because of your age, then I agree with your anger.  I know what
    it's like to be looked down on because of a characteristic I can
    do nothing about, (my sex), and it's a royal pain.
    
    Sexist, racist or 'ageist' (?!) women are just as guilty as like-minded
    men - moreso perhaps because they know firsthand the absurdity of
    it, and have felt its impact.
    
    I guess I was assuming these were secure and basically kind but
    perhaps overly-playful females having fun with you.  Just think - when 
    they were your age they were probably even more insensitive than they 
    are now!  I certainly hope you flash them a charming smile and pass
    them by.  I was thinking more along the lines of healthy flirting
    but that doesn't usually produce anger.
    
    Sandy                              

    Now I feel bad after reading this note.....I tease my husband all
    the time...when you get to be my age.....actually I haven't said
    it in awhile....we usually laugh about it....because he looks older
    than me and acts older....it's more of a joke than something I mean
    seriously.  Believe me when we have serious discussions I listen....
    I don't jump in and say "Oops your wrong I'm older and been around
    so therefore....etc etc..."   Whereas my first husband who is eight
    years older than me used to do that to me all the time.  "I'm older
    and I'm a teacher with a Masters Degree and your a young girl so
    therefore MY opinion is right and YOUR wrong...."  So belive me
    after living with that I would never say that to him because I respect
    him as a person and what he says I can't say because of my age is
    right or wrong.....
    
    Anyway - interesting.......
    
    

In "Indiscrete", the character played by Cecil Parker makes
the classic observation (he's referring to a difficult evening):

    "I am too old for that sort of thing. I always was"

-- Ron

Or as the minstrel says, "Ah, but I was so much older then; I'm younger
than that now."

    My husband is 8 1/2 years younger than I am, and for me it's either
    irrelevant, or a plus!  Most of the time, we're totally unaware
    of our age difference.  But every now and then...  when let's just
    say that he really keeps me feeling young!
    
    I think you've just had the misfortune to know some "hung-up" women!
    
    
    
    Jacki
    
    (although I must say, I am counting the days till my husband finally
    hits thirty next year!)
    
    

    
    
    	Scary.  I read this note and thought:
    
    	"Gee, what a great topic!"
    
    	and then I looked at .0...
    
    

    My SO is 14 years younger than I am.  The time we have lived together
    has been the happiest time of my life.  Age hasn't been a problem
    at all for us... (although it sometimes seems to be a problem to
    various of our aquaintences).  I don't know if the age difference
    has anything to do with it, but the quality of our lives is fantastic
    and every aspect of our relationship has been special, unique, and
    (ok ... I admit, I've run out of appropriate adjectives_:-).  Perhaps
    the *individuals* you (basenote author) have run into just are not
    suited to your individual personality.  In our relationship we
    complement each others strengths and weaknesses but if asked which
    of us was "in charge",.. I would have to say that he was ... but
    he always consults and considers my feeling and opinions.