Conference bookie::movies

    Oh, I think "Dogs" already _is_ a cult classic - though the people who
    go to it solely for the scene you mention in .0 make me rather nervous.
    :-} 
    
    _I_ think it should have gotten more mainstream exposure. There just
    aren't enough wide-distribution films these days that inspire people to
    bolt from the theater halfway through. (Admittedly, it's rather rough
    on the folks who bolt - or, as was the case in the showing I attended,
    try to bolt and faint on the way out -  but it makes those who stay
    feel that much more rewarded. Major-league manipulation on the part of
    the director, and it's carried off flawlessly...)
    
    Lots of really fine scenery-chewing in this one, terrific
    characterizations, a storyline that unfolds in bits and pieces of
    flashbacks (and, for you puzzle fans out there, that plays fair with
    the data while making it a bit of a game to figure it out). But it _is_
    a little rough on the sensitive among us, who are advised either to
    skip this entirely or to bring a friend who's seen it before and can
    cue them about when to uncover their faces.
    
    Easily my favorite Harvey Keitel performance, by the way, though he had
    plenty of company in the "good performance" category.
    
    -b

>    Anyone know the artist and the title??.
    
    To quote the lovely lilting Stephen Wright: "The Rafferty brothers...
    and a band... of studio... professionals... hit it big... with this
    Dylanesque tune... under the name... of Stealers Wheel."
    
    Ray

    Incidentally, flower-wearin' San Francisco gave the Dogs their most
    boffo box-office, packing a first-run theater for nigh onto 6 months. 
    I saw the movie three times myself and would've made it four if I
    wasn't too shy to ask anyone for a date.
    
    Harvey Keitel was great, but I've been impressed by movies which
    featured more of him.  (Get your mind out of the gutter, I'm not
    talking about "Bad Lieutenant".)  But Tim Roth, Steve Buscemi, Michael
    Madsen, and Nice Guy Penn were great too, and I've never been as
    impressed by any of them.
    
    Ray

     Tim Roth was in a BBC drama a few years ago called "Made in Britain"
    This raised a few eye brows at the time.If you get the chance,it's well
    worth watching.


     SCott

    Got to see this last night.  
    
    I really liked it.  It was, well, riveting.  Quirky, perhaps, and not
    very linear, but riveting.  Michael Madsen, as Mr. Blonde, managed to
    portray one of the most quietly menacing (read: scary) people I've seen
    on the screen.  And I really, really, really liked Tim Roth's
    performance.  Anybody know how old this guy is?  He looked about 20-22.
    
    Not for the squeamish, to be sure, although none of the violence was
    particularly gratuitous (although I suppose one could say it was
    graphic).
    
    This is a soundtrack I shall probably pick up.  Does anyone know what
    the hell the title refers to, though?
    
    **** out of ****
    
    kim

    Director / writer / Mr. Brown, Quentin Tarantino, says that the phrase
    "reservoir dogs" "did come from somewhere" but he refuses to say where.
    An interviewer asked Steve Buscemi if Tarantino told him the secret and
    Buscemi, annoyingly true to character, said "He did.  But I'll take it
    to my grave."
    
    Non-linear is right.  That's one of the things I like about it: it's
    structure is beautiful, convoluted enough to keep the audience's sense
    of time off-balance and to keep the film from becoming static, but so
    well-handled that you don't feel lost or jerked around.  The flashback
    / flashforward / fantasy in which Tim Roth simultaneously learns and
    tells a joke is one of the flashiest bits I've seen in an American
    commercial film.
    
    Ray

    Has Mr. Tarantino done other things besides this?  One, he looked quite
    familiar (of course, so did most of the "not very Name-y cast").  Two,
    the name sounds familiar.  
    
    
    
    kim

	I must admit I didn't know what to expect not having read the
	box and since I hadn't read any of the reviews hear yet (though
	reading them now I still wouldn't of know what to expect :-).

	Based solely on that first scene in the restaurant I thought
	the table conversation was great to listen to, and I hoped
	the whole film would be like that.

	I soon caught on however that this was a cops and robbers
	film, and had to change my mind set again.  Once I did that
	again I liked the film.  As an earlier reply said, the use
	of flashbacks was interesting, and even though the first one
	lost me, the other ones were easy to follow the actual timeline.

	I must admit though, I was hoping for a different ending ....

     I heard that 'dogs' has been banned from video release in the UK,Or at
    the very least it's release has been postponed.When will they relies
    that banning a film is great publicity and gives prime time slots to
    films that might just slip on by with no one really paying much
    attention to it. 
    
     Don't really see what all the fuss is about,When I went to see it
    there was two old ladies in from of me and they didn't looked shocked
    in the least.I really hate when some pompous git tells me what I can and 
    can not watch.(think I'll see if we've got a note on censorship)
    
     SCott

	Excellent movie.  Format, dialogue, and acting were all
	super.  This is one of those "gotta watch it again" films.

    Why was it banned? Violence? (it surely couldn't be sex, there wasn't a
    sex scene in the whole film.)
    
    There's far, far more graphic, far bloodier and far more gratuitously
    violent films out there, and you don't have to look very hard to find
    them.
    
    
    kim

    re.12

     That's what annoyed me so much as well.There's less Violence/deaths 
    than an average "Arnie" film.
    **Spoiler**
    
     Maybe it's because everyone(bar the waitress)in the film dies.


    SCott

    Well, there's violence and there's violence. This film's violence
    certainly had me crawling in a way that the cartoon/shoot-em-up stuff
    never does; and I felt more involvement with the characters than I do
    in most of the Arnie-style flicks, which just added to the tension.
    (And then there's the anticipation-of-violence; it's so nice to find a
    new movie where the director understands that what you think might
    happen can be a lot scarier than what you see...)
    
    -b

     Know what you mean.When Tim Roth was shot he bled ALLOT,in your average
    Arnie movie you get a wee round hole and a trickle of blood
    
    
    
    
    SCott

  >>  (And then there's the anticipation-of-violence; it's so nice to find a
  >>  new movie where the director understands that what you think might
  >>  happen can be a lot scarier than what you see...)

	Hear, hear.

	When he's dancing around with that razor, man oh man.

    Amusing to hear about the UK.  Tim Roth said in interviews that he's
    sticking to American movies (and he was pretty sticky in "Reservoir
    Dogs") for now because the British film industry refuses to do anything
    but tedious tributes to upper-class twits.
    
    This is Tarantino's first film as director, although he sold at least
    one script (a romance which I haven't seen) before making it.  He's
    also written the script for what's slated to be John Woo's second
    Hollywood job. 
    
    Ray

	I think I heard on CNN HN or somewhere that this was a
	remake?  I didn't listen to the whole news clip, only
	thought I heard this glimps of it.

	spoiler question

	Does Mr. White shoot both Joe and Eddie, or is Eddie shot
	by Mr. Pink?  It's difficult to tell what goes on at that
	moment.

    Re .19:
    
    <spoiler warning>
    
    
    
    I've read somewhere that the director claims that Mr. Pink shot Eddie,
    but I prefer to believe that Mr. White got both Eddie and Pop. 
    
    I think Shakespeare would have _loved_ that ending. 
    
    -b

    spoiler warning

    Thanks, b!  If you watch the segment a bunch of times, it
    looks like Mr. White doesn't have time to get off two shots,
    but on the other hand, I believe Eddie is shot squarely in the
    chest, which would have been unlikely if it were Mr. Pink, given
    the angle.  Again, thanks for that info - interesting.

    Diane

    This is _not_ a remake, but several people (including Tarantino) have
    mentioned that it's partly inspired by the great "heist gone horribly
    wrong" films noir, particularly "The Asphalt Jungle" and "The Killing".
    Harvey Keitel is in the usual Sterling Hayden role.
    
    It's also partly inspired by Samuel Beckett, the recent lively school
    of Hong Kong gangster films, and Tarantino's experiences with Hollywood
    producers. 
    
    Ray

    Big time **Spoilers**
    

    (Mr. Pink did not die, BTW)

    I had a problem believing in a few things that happened in the movie.

    1)  Why didn't the cop just cut the officer loose, claim he over
    powered the whacko and ran away.  (That would have accounted for
    death of whacko and let the cop live)

    2)  Why did he have to wait for "Joe" to show up at all?  It seemed
    that they had plenty on the guy.  Or, once he did show, why didn't he 
    blow them all away?

    Why couldn't cops wait *in* the warehouse and take the bad guys as they
    showed up?

    3)  Why in the world, after Mr. White already killed several cops
    (flash back), would Mr. Orange tell him the truth?  I know many cops,
    narcotics, vice, undercover, etc., and no matter how honorable a bad guy
    might have been for a moment, they are still scum.  I doubt that a real
    undercover cop would have been so moved after the carnage those clowns
    had wrought.  I tend to think a real undercover guy would have been
    pleased by the idea that he fooled the scumbag into protecting him.

    He also would have served Mr. White better to have talked him in
    surrender *then* explaining he was the cop.

    I really thought the ending was incongruent with the foundation from 
    which the movie built itself.

    Other than the last few minutes, I loved the movie.  When Mr. Whacko
    got shot I offered an audible "GET THAT S&^*##(*!!!!".  I almost
    grabbed for the fast forward button when I thought the movie was gonna
    let him finish his work.

    Those are my thoughts.

    Chip 

    
    Chip,
    
    I'll try to answer some of those spoilers:
    
    
    
    I think Mr. Orange didn't cut the cop loose because he really couldn't
    walk or move very good. He was lying there holding his guts in.
    
    And I think he told White he was the cop for two reasons, he was dying,
    full of bullets, and since White showed so much compassion for him, he
    wanted to tell him before he died?
    
    I don't think it makes a lot of sense... either.
    
    As for catching Joe...
    
    Yeah, I don't see why the cops couldn't just wait inside, unless they
    wanted to get them all at once? Still doesn't make too much sense.
    	
    
    But I loved the movie. 
        

Spoilers...

>    And I think he told White he was the cop for two reasons, he was dying,
>    full of bullets, and since White showed so much compassion for him, he
>    wanted to tell him before he died?

I always thought it was obvious why Mr. Orange told Mr. White he was a cop...
Mr. White took a bullet for Mr. Orange, trying to save his life...

/Scott

    Spoilers...
    


    Thats why I guessed it happened.  My only contention is that if an
    undercover cop/fed/narc can get a scumbag to save their life by fooling
    them, they absolutely will try and do it.  I just thought it was not a
    very accurate portrayal of someone thats gone under.  (At the very
    least, I didn't think it was a realistic reaction, especially after
    this yahoo blew away three cops and was ready to kill the cop that
    was tied up.)
    
    anyway...

spoilers...




>    Thats why I guessed it happened.  My only contention is that if an
>    undercover cop/fed/narc can get a scumbag to save their life by fooling
>    them, they absolutely will try and do it.  I just thought it was not a
>    very accurate portrayal of someone thats gone under.  (At the very
>    least, I didn't think it was a realistic reaction, especially after
>    this yahoo blew away three cops and was ready to kill the cop that
>    was tied up.)


Well - Mr. Orange already thought he was gonna die... and after White got
shot, well - it looked like White was gonna die too... Also, at that point,
nobody else was alive to hear him confess to White that he was a cop,
and if Orange did get out of it alive, White would be put away or would have
died. So, Orange still would've been safe...

Besides, whose to say Orange wanted to do that type of job anymore, after 
that experience!!!

/Scott

p.s. In essence, Orange had nothing to lose by confessing to White...
     Orange already though he would die...

    
    
    Mr. Orange's confession worked for me, luckily.  The movie is about
    trust, honor, the conflict of social codes and work codes, the
    arbitrary way in which the conflicts are resolved -- it seemed as
    though everything was meant to lead up to that confession. 
    
    Any other reaction from Mr. White would've screwed it up, though.
    
    I don't think Mr. Pink will actually be around for RESERVOIR II: DOGS
    IN VEGAS.  True, we see him grab the loot and run out.  But immediately
    after, we hear cops ordering someone to stop, and lots of gunfire, and
    no car screeching away.  Somehow it figures that Mr. Pink wouldn't
    get the dignity of an on-screen death scene. 
    
    Ray

    
    spoiler
    
    
    Actually, I believe you hear Pink getting arrested in the background. 
    I thought you could hear him pleading with the coppers...

    
    The first time, I thought I could hear Mr. Pink getting shot.  The
    second viewing, I was not so sure.  Damn fine film.
    Apparently, at Tim Roth's insistance, the woman he exchanged bullets
    with was his American accent tutor.
    
    Bizarre.
    
    

    I finally saw the Hong Kong movie Tarentino ripped off most directly
    for "Reservoir Dogs".  What threw me off the scent was that it _wasn't_
    directed by John Woo, though it did have the same two stars as "The
    Killer".  
    
    Name of it is "City on Fire", directed by Mr. Dynamite, Ringo Lam.  (I
    really should find out the guy's Chinese name, though he gets extra
    points for coming up with an English moniker like "Ringo".)
    
    Spoiler description of "City on Fire"'s ending:
    
    
    
    Undercover cop has infiltrated gang doing big heist.  One of the
    leading members of the gang (though not Mr. Big) takes him under his
    wing.  They talk about life, love, etc., male bond.  Despite impeccable
    planning, zillions of cops show up for the robbery.  During bloody gun
    battle, undercover cop shoots a uniformed cop in a reflex action while
    confused by male bonding, and gets badly wounded.  (Sounds
    unbelievable, but, as in "Reservoir Dogs", it's convincingly filmed.) 
    
    The survivors crawl back to the hideout.  After a while, Mr. Big shows
    up and claims that there must be an undercover cop in the gang, and
    since Our (Cop) Hero is the only one he hasn't worked with before,
    _he's_ got to be it.  Our (Gangster) Hero says no, you're wrong, you
    don't know this guy, he's great.  Everyone pulls guns on everyone else. 
    After a while, another gangster comes in and pulls _his_ gun. 
    Imbalance!  Everyone shoots.  Everyone's dead or dying.
    
    The cops are closing in.  Our (Cop) Hero tells Our (Gangster) Hero to
    make his escape while he has a chance.  "I can't leave you here," says
    O(G)H, trying to drag O(C)H out.  "Leave me here."  "I can't leave you
    here."  "Gosh darn it all," says O(C)H, "I'm a cop."  "Wha?"  "I'm the
    cop."  Hilarity ensues.
    
    Note that there's more motivation for the cop's confession in Lam's
    version, since it actually might make a difference to the gangster's
    survival, whereas in Tarentino's version it's pure metaphysics.
    
    Ray

    

     Anyone know if the video ban on RD in the UK will also affect it's
    it being shown on Satellite(SKY).


    SCott

    Dunno if it's been mentioned yet, but Reservior Dogs (and "The Killer)
    are out on video for sale.  Saw 'em at Suncoast video. RD is on sale, I
    think.
    
    
    kim
    
    
    

    In an article on Tarantino in "Vanity Fair", Tarantino's mom finally
    tells all on where the name "Reservoir Dogs" comes from.
    
    Spoiler warning for those who want to remain in the dark:
    
    
    Really and truly now...
    
    
    
    Tarantino's girlfriend wanted to persuade him to go with her to see
    Louis Malle's "Au Revoir Les Enfants", to which Quentin replies, "I
    don't want to see no @#$%@! 'reservoir dogs'!"
    
    Now you know...
    

I finally rented this over the weekend.
It was rather better than I had expected.  I was primed for gratuitous
violence, but found very well motivated (in context!) violence
and character elaboration.

I can settle some spoilers:
    
    
>    I've read somewhere that the director claims that Mr. Pink shot Eddie,
>    but I prefer to believe that Mr. White got both Eddie and Pop. 

I slo-mo'd through this a couiple of times because I was puzzled too.
Mr. White shot both of them.
The order of shots was:
 - Joe shoots Mr. Orange
 - so Mr. White shoots Joe
 - so Eddie shoots Mr. White
 - who has time to turn his arm in 10 frames or less (1/3 of a second)
   to shoot Eddie

Mr. White has the best gun and the most operational skill, so he "wins."
    
>    I think Shakespeare would have _loved_ that ending. 

Well he certainly would have recognized it!
    


On the other matter of why Mr. Orange admitted to being a cop....
He was a new undercover cop, still too willing to bond to the bad guys.
Recall he spoke well of "Long Beach Mike" (or whoever the stoolie that
vouched for him) and his mentor (the black cop with the Red Chinese hat)
had to chide him and point out that Mike was a %^*^%# scumbag who was selling
out his amigos.

Note that Mr. White shows no such bonding and puts the bullet into
Mr. Orange's chin that causes the cops to gun HIM down.

- tom]

	Entertainment Weekly indicates the directors cut of this film
	should be out (on video) in August.

	Seeing how violent this film was to begin with, I wonder what
	was left out of the original release?

    Saw this the other night. It certainly a very shocking and brilliantly
    stylish film.
    
    Reading this notestring has clarified a few points that I was wondering
    about.
    
    I understand there is a tie in to True Romance. If so which character
    was it ? I think Joe asks one of the guys how 'the girl' is referring
    to Alabama in TR. Or have I got this all wrong.
    
    Royston

    
    this is an excellant movie.I'm ashamed of myself for only watching it 4
    times so far but no doubt there will be more.Has it ever been on cable?
    Also....has anyone ever heard that there may be a directors cut
    available soon?
    
    
    						ian

    Quentin ripped it off from John Woo's City on Fire.  It is an excellent
    flick.  I loved Michael Madsen.

    
    Quentin has ripped off a few movies but the end results are excellant!
    
    re-1
    
    I agree on the Michael Madsen quote!
    
    
    							ian

    "City on Fire" is actually a Ringo Lam film, not John Woo.
    
    There are a number of names that show up in common between the various
    Quentin Tarantino films, but it's not clear whether they are meant to
    be the same characters.
    
    The name Scagnetti shows up in RD as Mr. Blonde's (Michael Madsen)
    parole agent, but I don't think it's meant to be the same Scagnetti
    that shows up in NBK.
    
    The same may apply to the name "Alabama", who was Mr. White's (Harvey
    Keitel) old partner that Joe asks about in RD.  I'm not sure whether it
    is meant to be the same Alabama as in TR.
    
    - Dave

    re: .41
    
    Oh yeah.  I've spent the summer watching Ringo Lam, John Woo, and Wong
    Jing films.  After a while, it's kind of hard to tell them apart.

    Can anyone help me out here. I'm trying to remember the line
    that Mr Pink says near the begining when he rubs his thumb and finger
    together and makes a joke about playing the world's smallest violin.
    
    What was the whole phrase he used ? 
    
    Thanks
    
    Royston

    
    	Sounds like the old "faux sympathy" retort of "Know what this
    	is?  The sound of me playing the world's smallest violin".
    

    He said, basically, "Hear this? This is me playing the world's smallest
    violin for all the waitresses in the world."
    
    If you want an exact quote, I can get it from the script.
    
    
    
    kim

    Thx for the replies. The exact quote would be great please kim.
    
    Royston

    
    
    the standard line is:
    
    know what this is....its the world's smallest violin and its playing
    just for you!
    
    Chris
    :)