Conference 7.286::pet_birds

    Don't wait for another reply, get him/ her to your VET! Conures can
    hide sickness very well, this is their defense in the wild. Once you
    see signs, you know its been around for a while.  Your bird could very
    well be fine, BUT he is acting out of his norm and showing signs that
    do fit some of the known avian afflictions.  This should be your
    biggest key for understanding the need to get him checked.  
    
    Let us know how he is doing!

    I second the motion!  He may have an inner ear infection that could
    led to brain infection.  Big birds have a lot better chance with
    a vet than trying it your self at home.

    I also suggest an immediate trip to the vet...several of my
    birds have exhibited such behavior in the past particualy the
    resting on the cage keeping the beak open on the bars which was
    diagnosed as respiratory infections...
    
    F.
    
    

  Well,  let me tell you about my first trip to the vet.  Quite an
  experience.   

  I took Larry in his cage covered with a heavy quilt to the Lexington-
  Bedford vet hospital yesterday.  He is not hand trained and had never
  been out of the house.  

  On initial examination by Dr. Kelsey he seemed fine.  His feathers and
  body seemed good and he was certainly eating enough.  His nose and mouth
  were clear and his eyes responded properly.  His nails were too long
  due to having a perch that was too big so the Dr. took him in back to
  cut his nails.  After the exhausting nail cutting the signs of his
  sickness were starting to show.  He was standing on the top of the
  cage and his legs were too tired to hold him up.  Dr. Kelsey notice
  he wasn't gripping well either. 
  
  After letting him rest a while Dr. Kelsey took a blood sample from his
  toe nail and gave him a vitamin shot and sent us home.  She took a stool
  sample too. 

  Larry was certainly happy to be home but now he is too weak to do anything.
  I am really worried.  I put to two perches together so he can lean his
  body on them.  He isn't eating or drinking.  He is just lying on his perches
  with his beak on one of the rungs of the cage.  I gave him some water and
  some cream of wheat from my finger this morning and he ate a little.  He 
  then climbed to the other side of the cage and is leaning standing up with
  his beak on the cage.  I noticed his right eye is shut most of the time.
  His legs seem very weak.

  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

  Thanks.

  Karin Baker "worried Mom"
  

    Karin,
    
    So sorry to hear of your trip, but you really did the correct thing. 
    Hopefully the blood test will reveal something that can then be
    treated.  Stress will always compound effects of illness, so there
    are a few things you can do until the results of your test come
    back, which hopefully will be very soon.  
    
    Keep him warm.  A heating pad under the cage and surounding sides
    with saran wrap will help.  Keep him hydrated by keeping fresh
    water and also fruits/veggies available for him.  Keep him in a 
    low stress environment (noise down, etc..).  
    
    The trip to the vet didn't cause his problem, just aggrivated it, which
    in one respect is good so that the vet could see first hand his problem
    and thus do further testing.  Please let us know what the vet says
    regarding blood/fecal testing.  I believe with the type of symptoms
    your bird is experiencing, something will turn up in the blood.  
    
    Karin hang in there and please keep us informed!  
    
    Karen

  re: .5

  Thanks so much for the support.  I've been so worried.  It is great
  to be able to talk to someone who knows about birds.

  We'll keep him warm over the weekend.  I don't think the test results
  will be back until Monday.  I'll let you know what happens.

  Karin

  Here's an update on Larry's condition.

  The doctor gave me some antibiotics to give Larry on Friday.
  They seem to have helped alot.  He was able to stand up by Friday
  evening and started eating Saturday morning.  His condition has
  steadily improved since then, except last night I noticed he was
  loosing his balace again.

  This morning he seemed very weak and I noticed his feces were black.
  The doctor said this is probably due to some internal bleeding.
  If it is internal bleeding then there is not much that can be done.
  Doctor Kelsey said she would do a blood transfusion if necessary.
  I don't think Larry can weather another traumatic trip to the vet,
  he is so weak.

  So, we will keep up with the antibiotics and vitamins and hope Larry
  has the strength to recover.  I keep you all updated.

  Karin

    My heart is going out for you and Larry. I hope all goes well and
    Larry makes it through  this.
    
    Lise

    Karin, my thoughts are with you on this.  How is larry this morning?
    
    Karen -

 
  Larry seems a little better today.  I gave him some vitamin K last
  night and his feces are back to normal.  We seem to be back where we
  started, Larry is eating but his legs are very weak and he looses his
  balance sometimes while he is trying to sleep.  

  I am still giving him the antibiotics but I haven't really seen any
  improvement since Sunday so I'm not sure what they are doing.  Dr. 
  Kelsey said there is an internal bleeding disorder with conures that 
  is not fully understood.  She thinks this may be what Larry has.  The
  vitamin K was used to treat it.  

  The Lab messed up with the blood work so we did not get any test results
  except for the one that indicates the kidneys are functioning fine.  
  The doctor would like me to bring him back in on Thursday, but hopefully
  we can wait until Saturday and Larry may be a bit stronger.  Until then
  we are just giving the antibiotics, vitamin K, and lots of TLC. 

  I'll let you know if anything changes.

  Karin

    Karin,
    
    The best in all of this is knowing that he is hanging in there
    as well as he is.  Thats always a good sign!
    
    

    Karin,
      Glad to hear Larry is still hanging in there I will keep saying
    prayers. I know when one of our 4 are a little under the weather
    how I feel.
      so I will say prayers fore a healthy, speedy, and total recovery.
    
    Lise

    Karin,
    
    My heart goes out to you as you do all you can for Larry. I just
    read your note saying he might have 'bleeding conure syndrome',
    which I am just getting familiar with because of a baby conure
    we just got. We were told that it is not known yet whether this
    affliction is metabolic, genetic, or ??? Waiting to go to the 
    vet to let Larry get stronger is certainly understandable, especially
    if this difficulty with blood clotting is part of Larry's problem.
    ...and they plan on doing another blood test.  We saw our bird go
    through this yesterday, so my thoughts will be with you this week
    as you get ready to take him in again.  If your vet is unfamiliar
    with this problem and wants to talk to someone, our vet in Littleton
    might be of help: Dr. Alexandra Kilgore, 508-486-3101.  She specializes
    in avian medicine.
    
    Wishing Larry a speeding recovery.  He is very lucky to have someone
    who cares so much about his welfare as you obviously do. 
                                                            
    Linda
    
    

  Here is the latest Larry update.  He seems to be doing better.  He
  has been eating lots and I am still giving him the antibiotic 2 times
  a day.  He still looses his balance but he is not leaning his beak on
  his perch the way he was originally.  

  I'm not sure if we have found his problem or not.  Since he seems to be
  getting stronger I will probably wait a little longer before I bring him
  to the vet again.  I am going away next week from Monday until Saturday and
  I hope he'll be fine while we're away.  Our neighbor usually feeds him.
  
  So we are still in limbo for now and hopefully Larry has recovered and 
  will manage ok while we are away.  I am going to call the vet on Monday
  for a last check in before we go.  I let you know if anything changes.

  Thanks so much for the supportive chats.

  Karin

    Not to be the bearer...

    I could not agree more with the recommendation to see Dr. Kilgore or
    even Dr. Brian Holub.  Both are excellent vets!  The thing with the
    weak legs scares me though.  Not only could it be the CBS, but it
    could be a cervical tumor or nerve damage too.  If you are not
    comfortable with your Dr. have him/her call Dr. Greg Harrison in Lake
    Worth Florida.  His number is somewhere in the beginning of this
    conference, I put it there ages ago...  Dr. Harrison is ahead of his
    time in avian meds!

    If it's possible, ask your vet, who should comply readily, to give you
    a 1/2 cc hermatic (sp) tube.  This is a very tiny tube that is used
    for small blood collection.  You simply cut a toenail, hold one end of
    the hermetic tube to the wound and let the blood drip in.  When I do
    this, I have clay handy to stop both ends of the tube.   if you don't
    or if it is not offered with the tube by the vet use chewed gum!

    I have been doing this for years!  It saves a trip to the vet, stress
    on the bird, and the expense of an office visit!

    Also, blackened stool is also a sign of enteritis, as well as internal
    bleeding.  And, SINCE Larry has been on antibiotics for so long, I
    strongly suggest you feeding him a cc of plain yogurt with active
    cultures.  See, antibiotics are wonderful drugs if used properly.  And
    the modern veterinarian usually dispenses them too freely.  this by the
    way is not a shot at the vets!  Those of you who know me, know that!
    8^).  As good a job as the antibiotic is doing for Larry, it is also
    killing good bacteria.  some day we can come up with an antibiotic that
    will kill bad bacteria and leave the good alone.  But...till then, the
    good bacteria is susceptible to all drugs.
    
    
    I am only here till this Friday, 12/29...but want very much to know how
    Larry is doing!  Please keep us informed!
    
    Jean Hutchins
    (Ya know, Feathered Obsessions - More than an Aviary???)
    

Just wanted to let everyone know that Larry seems to have had a full
recovery.  He seemed to have a relapse about 3 weeks before Christmas
so I took him to the vet again to redo the blood test.  The test 
showed that there wasn't any infection but his calcium level was very
low.  (It was a 3 and the vet said 8 is normal.)

So, Larry has been on calcium supplements for 2-3 weeks and he seems
much better.  I haven't seen him lean in over a week.  Time will tell
though.  

One thing I have learned from this is that birds need a balanced diet.
Larry was originally on just fortified parrot seed but he really needs
more than that.  He has always eaten grapes and apples.  Now I need to
find something else he will eat.  He was not raised in captivity so he
is still not real tame and doesn't seem to like any foods but the seed.
But we will certainly keep trying!

Cheers,  Karin

    Karin, this is VERY good news.  We were all wondering how Larry
    was holding out.  You are write about a 'balanced diet'.  The
    only way my birds are happy is if they join us for dinner every
    night.  They get all kinds of things that keep their little
    bodies happy.  You aughta try Jeans "bird mash" recipe.  I've
    made it a few times.  I think I get more enjoyment out of
    cooking it.  My birds seemed to get more on them then in them,
    but definately enjoyed the heck out of it!!  Its in the feeding
    topic...
    Again so glad to here Larry is doing great....