Conference 7.286::pet_birds

    I had two Budgies Rita and Tweety. I clipped Rita, but Tweety was my
    daughters, who would not allow him to be clipped. Although Rita' wings
    are now grown out, we are still able to handle Rita much more than
    Tweety. Tweety will fly to me though where Rita will not, she waits for
    me to put my hand close enough for her to hop on. Many times I felt bad
    when Rita would try to fly and "THUD" she would fly enough to crash
    into the wall or onto the floor. I think that it would be best that
    after clipping a bird you work with it in a carpeted room until it
    adjusts, Rita never adjusted and I don't plan to clip her again. To
    clip or not to clip, to me depends on what you want from the Bird. 
                                                            
    I have now added a third budgie Buddy, who is hand fed and still
    continueing his hand feedings. He is another story, I will never clip
    his wings. I have to coax the other two out of their cages, but Buddie
    can't wait to get out and fly to my shoulder. 

    My baby, Precious, learned to fly after weaning in about 2 tries. 
    Consequently, since I have a large amount of energy, and some
    substantial money invested, I don't want her accidently finding her way
    outside.  She would head straight for a window, and end up sitting on
    the curtain rod.  I have a 3.5 year old little boy, who isn't the
    greatest at keeping doors shut, plus, with the momentum she was able to
    get up in a short distance, I was worried she might make it through a
    open door , or screened window.   Our decision?  Wings clipped.  She
    had a little bit of adjustment, a few crashes.  She's learned now
    though, and when she comes off a shoulder, or whatever, to flap like
    crazy to soften the landing.  We generally have to clean up a small
    mess after this landing, but she's ok, and she can't get away.
    
    Also, she had this tendency to fly only towards me, or if I wasn't
    home, to a stranger (most of whom feel uncomfortable with a bird in the
    extremely close range).
    
    Ed
    

    The Vet told us that Chico's right wing had been clipped just right.
    That seems to be defined as just enough to keep him from being able
    to gain altitide but not so much that he drops like a rock.  Now,
    when he tries to fly from his perch he more or less slowly, (in a
    manner of speaking) sinks to the floor.  It's slow enough to break
    his fall bu fast enough to keep him from really going anywhere.

    I have no idea how a person determines what or how much to clip.
    Certainly any advice would be welcome.

    Dave, Jane, and Chico

    I have been strugling with this also.  My Grey was not clipped when
    I got her.  I thought it would be best until she got to know me.
    I decided to clip her and it didn't go over very well at all.  She
    stopped talking and really seemed bent out of shape about it.  She
    also took some hard falls.  
    
    Now there are new feathers coming in and I don't know if I should
    have them cut or not.  Its only a matter of time before she fills out.
    I think I'm going to leave them and if she starts flying off when I
    try to pick her up etc...  Then I'll cut them.
    
    Mark
                    

    
    This is defently a good question, but agin I thik it depends on
    you and your bird..I think it is a good idea to keep a bird cliped
    when you first get him/her and are training him/her if they are
    cliped they feel vunerbal (sp) and will learn quicker due to fear
    of not being able to get away.  After you and your bird have become
    acustom to one another then that is when the qestion realy becomes
    an issue.
    
    After our brid (reggie) had been trained we let his wings grow out
    to see how we and he liked it,,of coarse he LOVED it and we dont
    mind..he will stay on his cage all day long and only fly out to
    us when he is board (he is in the bedroom)..and he will fly home
    when he has had enought play-time..so for us it is "NOT TO CLIP"
    
    Good Luck
    
    Louisa

    Well....  These lovebirds that I'm sitting for.  Dutch, the mail,
    he is a real cutie.  Last night after I got done cleaning their
    cages and feeding I went to put Dutch and Peaches in their cage.
    Peaches went in but Dutch took off flying around the room.  It took
    me 20 minutes to catch the little sucker!  I had to find a baseball
    hat to snag him in as he was flying by.  He DID NOT want to go into
    his cage.  I guess a bigger bird maybe easier to catch?? But the
    little ones can get to places that you can't get to them.  It was
    a real experience and is making me really thing about this! 

    
    My Vet, Dr. Brian Holub, said it was VERY important to clip one
    wing on my Macaw, Avalon.  He was afraid that if he could fly he would get
    up speed, and not be able to turn in time to navigate inside a house,
    and really HURT himself.
    
    Dr. Holub does what he calls a "California Clip".  He leaves two
    or three of the first primaries, so that when the wing is folded,
    it looks perfect, and then removes all the rest of the primaries.
    
    Avalon can "fly" from the top of his cage to the ground with no
    problem, and he loves to "fly" to someones arm, but he has little
    or no lift.  I feel this is the ideal situation.
    
    RE: clipping one wing or two, the larger birds are such strong flyers
    that they can gain a lot of altitude if both wings are even.
    
    I don't know if Avalon's personality would differ if his wings were
    not clipped, but I believe that the dangers are such that I will
    never find out.
    
    Possibly, smaller birds, like grays or amazons could live in a house
    with unclipped wings and not have a problem.  Also, there is the
    open door or window problem, I live in Mass, and I do not think
    outside would be a good place for a baby Macaw in January!
    
    -dick

    Hi Karen,
    
    I guess it is my turn to comment on this subject.  I am for clipping
    but I think how much to clip depends on the bird itself.  The cockatiel
    that I inherited had never had his wings clipped.  He was a real
    independent sort of guy and would get great enjoyment from drawing
    blood during training sessions.  I had episodes where it took me
    as long as 45 minutes to catch him and get him back to his cage.
    So.....we reluctantly clipped his wings.  He is now much more receptive
    to training and taming and will perch comfortably on your shoulders.
    
    My Amazon had his wings clipped by the shop before we bought him.
    This too was his first clip.  (His previous owner kept him on a
    tether..yuk!).  When his wings grew back he was pretty good for
    a while then it was like he became a different bird!  He got very
    independent and would not respond as well to training.  Then one
    day he decided to fly.  I did not feel comfortable about a bird
    that large flying in the house.  It is so easy for them to get hurt.
    We clipped him again, but it was selective clipping.  He has just
    enough lift to prevent a crash.  He is now the mild mannered bird
    that I once knew and is beginning to expand on his vocabulary. 
    
    I see definite advantages with clipping and have settled on this
    as a norm for my feathered friends.  In every case where I have
    seen a birds wings clipped it has calmed the bird down and made
    them much more manageable.  I might also suggest having someone
    other than yourself do the clipping.  The birds tend to get very
    mad at the person who does this to them.  They tend to get over
    it faster this way.
    
    I hope this helps.
    
    Jim Buccieri

    RE: 10
    
    Jim, your suggestion about someone else clipping is an EXCELLENT
    one.  I try to do as few nasty's to my birds as possible.  We got
    a small Dremel tool recently to do beaks and nails.  My two large
    birds don't mind their toe nails too much but will not put up with
    their beaks being done.  I will just continue to take them to the
    vet to have their beaks trimmed if need be.  It's worth it to me
    to have them hate my vet instead of ME!
    
    I will clip.  I have heard another story regarding clipping that
    I will share.  Some birds that are used to not being clipped and
    fly about freely tend to be Frenzy Flappers.  I mean that they will
    start flappying their wings about in their cages when upset, board
    etc... more so than a clipped bird will do.  This can cause serious
    problems as most of you know.  This is just one more reason I guess.
    
    I hope all this information will help others as much as it did me
    to make the big decision.  For me it comes down to the fact that
    a bird under control is a safe bird.
    
    Thanks everyone!

    	We have two Greys - one is blind in one eye (rarely attempts
    to fly), but the other is a strong young male named Basil. We did 
    clip him a few years ago; the reason for that being training and
    also that we wanted to be able to take him out into the garden, 
    weather permitting.
    	A previous note mentioned panic-flying with clipped wings. This
    happened several times since he is a nervous bird, with uncomfortable
    crash landings. However, since his wings have grown back, he seems a
    much happier bird. He goes for a flap around the room (we have to 
    introduce him to potential landing spots prior, but only once), and 
    we have NEVER had the panic-flying-crashing since.   He actually seems 
    to LIKE a panic-induced flap - he just circles the room once, then 
    returns to the exact spot where he started from, ie. the spot where
    the panic started !  
    	The only excuse for clipping in my view therefore, is for training
    purposes. Even this is only a temporary measure (6-9 months).
    	Lastly, I think there's a moral question here. That is; leave
    the bird as he was created. 
    
    Jim Burke (and Basil the air-conditioner)

    I can understand this topic being a "moral question".  But I also
    look at it as a safety question.  When home most/all my bird cages
    are open and the little guys are at various places thoughout my
    home.  Some because I placed them on a perch others because they
    got off thier cage and walked there (my little Sun Conure will follow
    me around the house).  I feel that if I did not clip thier wings
    they might try to make a trip through a (closed) window.  Also many
    moons ago I had a Cherry Head Conure that I used to bring out to
    the backyard (when I had yard work to do), he loved to bask in
    the sun.  His wings were only slightly clipped, a noise scared him,
    he took off and I never saw him again.  Bilbo (the Sun) also like
    to be outside, but I will not take the chance of losing him too.
                               
    Mark

    re: 13
    
    I am in total agreement with you Mark.  In another topic someone
    mentioned their bird being out for 3 days. Can you imagin our Greys
    being out in Colorado for 3 days?  We would have two dead birds!
    Another C.B.A'er told me that because of all the hawks and those
    types of birds that our exotics would be someones dinner in no time!
    And come on... hand feds aren't cheap!
    
    The one other problem that I have is the large birds versus the
    small birds.  My Cockatoo and Grey don't like the smaller birds
    very well.  If I didn't have their wings clipped and they decided
    to land near their cage or where they are perched, they would surely
    loose a toe!  In my mind, if you make a list of the Pro-clip versus
    the Con-clip, the Pro list is much longer and seems to be filed
    with all the Safety aspects.

    I have 2 Cockateils both male. One is cliped and the other is not.
    I want to clip the other one but dont know how.  The one that is
    cliped I just bought. The other I have had for 2 years and the bird
    is a FLAKE.... You can't get whithin 2 feet of him without him flying
    off.  I got him from another owner.  My question is should I give
    up or clip him to tame him a little... I too have the moral problem
    but this bird drives me nuts.  I am also afraid to take him out
    because he is such a nervous bird I afraid he will have a heat attack.
    I would rather do it myself and need some advice on First catching
    him them how to clip.....
    
    Steve