Conference 7.286::pet_birds

    Note 727 deals with Giardia also.

Hi,

I'm at wits end. I don't know what to do for Garkon anymore. I took him 
to see Dr. Kilgore on Tuesday. She is really frusterated that Garkon is 
still sickly. She told me that he's definitley not a healthy bird and 
that one of my options would be to put him to sleep. He's not suffering, 
but he's sooo sick and he's been sick for 6+ months. Of course I burst 
into tears and I just couldn't do that. So right now we are going to try 
treating some other things that are probably a result of the Giardia 
(weight loss, feather/skin picking). I'm giving him thyroid medication, 
I have to bathe him in the sink (he doesn't like this) every morning and 
then put salve on the area and then I have to give him some other 
medication orally to promote feather growth and I have to keep isolated.

I've been keeping him in a carrying cage and I put millet spray in with 
him, and a couple of little toys along with a preening toy. Garkon 
usually loves millet, but doesn't seem to be touching it. He's pacing 
and really seems miserable. His eyelids are all wrinkled and he's so 
dirty and depressed looking I feel so bad for him. She said if he keeps 
picking I could try putting a collar on him again, but he gets so 
depressed with the collar, we'll try that as a last resort.

Somehow I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing by treating him. I feel 
so terrible and he's obviously miserable. He's not even singing back to 
my other tiel (he usually does). I don't know if I should put him to 
sleep. I don't think I can. He's not "bonded" to me, but he seems to be 
with the other tiel. He'll tolerate me touching him [except last night 
was the first time he tried biting me pretty hard (for a tiel)], but he 
really doesn't "love" me...so I pretty much leave them alone in their 
cage or playpen but I still feel really attached to him. 

Has anyone had to put a bird to sleep? with Dr Kilgore? Can someone let 
me know what to expect... I don't know what to do anymore. I love him so 
much, but I don't want to see him suffer.

Donna

    I would try seeing a different vet before making any irreversible 
    decision.  I understand that Dr. Kilgore is considered the best in 
    the area, but that doesn't mean that someone else might not pick up 
    on something that she's not seeing.
    
    Maybe its not guardia, but a psychological problem/frustration that is
    causing the picking.  Maybe putting Garkon into a different
    environment, such as a large flight-type cage with safe plants around 
    it, maybe the radio to listen to and then not fussing too much with him
    would give him some space.
    
    I was looking at sinus treatments in an old book on bird care (copyright 
    1934 or thereabouts).  They recommended that if specific medicines didn't 
    work, to put the bird into an aviary with greens growing, etc. and then
    just to leave it be for a while.
    
    Mary

    
    
    Just a stab-in-the dark suggestion - what kind of lighting do you have
    in the room where Garkon lives?  Could you try getting a fluorescent
    light fixture and fitting it with a Vitalight or other full spectrum
    lighting?  Although my birds haven't experienced this sort of longterm
    illness, they did get more cheerful and have better appetites when I
    added full spectrum lighting.  And my finches won't breed without it.
    
    While it probably won't cure his disease, it might improve his outlook
    enough to help his own immune system kick in.
    
    
    						/Rita
    
    			

    
    also to boost the immune system I've used an echinacea tincture.  Just
    add a few drops to the water.  I use a glycerine based tincture and it
    sure has helped with a budgie that wasn't up to par.  There may be
    other homeopathic remedies if your willing to go that route.
    
    MaryAnne

Hi Rita,

In my old apartment, we used have a giant vitalight over the birds cage, 
and it really didn't seem to make that much of a difference (the room 
was wicked dark). Now that I own a house, I don't use the vitalight, but 
the room is very bright. I will talk to my husband about putting a light 
over the cages again tho.

You reminded me, Dr. Kilgore thought that Garkon's immune system didn't 
seem to be working... I hate it when I get all emotional and can't 
remember everything she says...

Donna

    I was at wits end with my first budgie(Rita). she started out with
    scaly mites and developed respiratory infections, which my vet at the
    time couldn't clear up. A friend that had an aviary sold me a 5lb bag
    of tetracycline treated seeds, and I fed this exclusively for 30 days.
    this cured Rita and he lived a happy life for another 3+ years.
    
    I know broad-spectrum antibiotics are frowned upon, but.....
    Also that non vetrinary supported treatments are a no-no, but...
    
    I have not been able to locate above mentioned friend for a couple of
    years.
    
    I can really feel for you, I had 2 budgies die this year and felt the
    loss even though they were not real friendly pets.

    I posted a note in here, I can't remember the number, about my
    lovebird Chet.  He was picking himself to the point of bleeding, 
    Dr Kilgore put him in a collar, when the collar came off he started
    picking again.  He has been on thyroid meds, antibiotics, etc.
    He is still picking away but appears to be in good spirits - for now.
    Every day I worry about what I might find when I come home from work.
    ;^(
    He eats like a little horse and seems energetic.  I think this little
    guy is really just neurotic.  If he was a person he'd probably bite
    his fingernails!  
    I have noticed that giving more vitamins and more veggies has helped
    alittle.  Its really sad to be so helpless.
    Good luck to you.  You may want to experiment with different lighting,
    seperating your birds or providing different vitamins.
    I couldn't give you much more for advice.
    I know it hurts.
    Nancy
    

    I had a little peach faced lovebird that had a very similar condition,
    I believe it was the same as a matter of fact.  He had it for over
    2 years and the last six months of his life was really tough.  He had
    a mate and at first I thought it might be her picking at him, although
    he had started with it quite a few months before he was paired with
    her.  BUt I thought she was the one that was aggravating it.  He got
    it on his back shoulder just under his wing.  It was inflamed,open and
    looked infected.  His feathers were all gone around his neck and on
    the shoulder where the affected area was.
    
    The last months of his life were very painful for him,  and I did not
    have the heart to have him put to  sleep, hoping that he would get 
    better.  I tried all sorts of things.  I called a good friend of mine
    who is a noted Veterinarian and Avian author and he suggested that I
    take straight tetracycline capsules, open them and spread it on the
    open affected wounds.  I tried that for awhile and to no avail.  I
    tried tetracycline in the water too, also my deep/heat infra red light
    but nothing seemed to work.  He ate well so I kept hoping he would
    get better.  I decided not to split him up with his mate because my
    friend said it was more comforting for him to have her there and he
    would go through more stress if they were apart.  Which made sense
    since they cuddled together and she would preen him and care for him.
    
    Finally one morning I found him dead.  In one way I was relieved since
    he no longer had to go through the pain.  
    
    Please don't do as I did.  If your little guy is in a great deal of
    pain, it might be the best thing to do.  I know that there is no cure
    for it and it is most prevalent in Lovebirds and Cockatiels.  They are
    not sure if it is contageous however do believe it might be genetic.
    
    That's all I know about it.   It really sounds just like what my
    lovebird had.  I wish I had a more optimistic outlook for you, but
    that's what I have heard and read about it.
    
    Best of Luck and I do hope things turn out better for you.
    
    Regards,
    Denise  

    I am going through a similar situation with my tiel, Sunny who has been
    picking some of her feathers.  She checks out O.K. at the vet, so we
    don't know what's wrong with her either.  She seems to have stopped
    picking but the feathers won't grow back.  Who can figure it?!!!
    
    At any rate, I had a budgie put to sleep last year and it was an awful
    experience but I have no regrets.  Modern medicine is great that it
    can prolong life but it's a curse when it only prolongs death.  I feel
    there are worse things in life than death and suffering with no hope of
    cure is one of them.  You will have to judge when the time is right.  I
    believe in life after for all creatures and although your bird may no
    longer be with you, he will be soaring with all the others who have
    been set free from this world thru death.  
    
    My budgie was given a shot of "something" (don't know what) and was at
    peace within a second or two.  I don't think he felt any pain what so
    ever.  
    
    Good luck with your decision.
    
    Jeanne
    
    P.S. before making a final choice I would also consult another vet or
    try your tiel in an aviary.  A small crate may be causing additional
    stress.  Maybe more space would help!  

    Another thing that may help, if the picking is due to, or exacerbated
    by, stress is hanging a stalk of broccoli in the cage.  I hang a stalk 
    every day now (except when I hang some spinach leaves or carrot tops, 
    which all work the same).  Anytime they feel a little stressed they pick 
    away at the broccoli.  And I think they like getting food in a more 
    natural way.
    
    I'm curious now how you know the difference between picking at feathers
    and regular preening?  And what clues you in to giardia.  I ask because
    Sushi has been losing feathers at an incredible rate.  Although Dr.
    Kilgore said she is molting, and she does have pin feathers coming in,
    this has been going on for several weeks now.  So I am concerned.  Dr.
    Kilgore couldn't say how long molting normally lasts.  She said its
    different every time.
    
    Mary                 

    Re: .11, My lovebird's feather picking is so severe that it causes
    sores and bleeding.  BTW - my birdies love broccoli and tear it
    apart on a regular basis.  They find all kinds of things to chew on
    when they have their flight time.  
    I never realized that this was such a common problem.  ;^(   

Re: 11

Mine also picks causing sores and bleeding. It was once so severe he 
exposed his shoulder, it was disgusting. He got very thin and his 
eyelids started to get very wrinkled and he looked tired all the time. 
He wouldn't let me mist him (usually he loves this) and would be 
lethargic.  I guess in serious giardia cases birds can pass whole seeds 
but Garkon wasn't doing that. His stool seemed normal which was 
puzzling.

I've been treating him for a week, and he doesn't seem any better. I did 
however put back the vitalight and put him back in the cage with Ava 
because he got soooooo depressed when I put him in the hospital cage and 
I was afraid he really wouldn't make it. I have to call Dr. Kilgore 
today with his progress (?) and I'll probably see about putting him back 
in a collar to stop him from picking. He has a very hard time adjusting 
to this, Ava shuns him and we end up really cutting the collar back cuz 
they make it so large it bangs into his little legs when he tries to 
drink or eat. It's so sad to watch.  I am also considering non-verbal 
communication with Betty Lewis to see if this has any effect at all. If 
anyone has had any experience with this type of treatment (good or bad) 
please let me know.

Thanks for all the support and advice.

Donna

Garkon is back in the hospital.  Dr. Kilgore will be treating him by 
injection with the same medication I was using at home, keeping him in 
an incubator and taking extra care with him. I hope she can bring him 
back for us. She did mention that if this continues to persist she might 
try a skin biopsy or steriods (as a last resort). I truly believe that 
he couldn't be in better hands and I hope that is enough. I hope I don't 
have to have him put down after all of this. 

Ava hasn't stopped whistling, chirping and singing since I brought 
Garkon to the hospital on Friday. I still can't tell if this is singing 
for joy or because he misses Garkon. Any ideas?

Thanks again to everyone for all the suggestions & support.

Donna

    Donna,  I'm sorry about Garkon.  I hope they figure out the problem and
    that he gets well....
    
    Mary

Well, Garkon seems to be doing MUCH BETTER! I just got off the phone 
with Dr. Kilgore and she said he's hopping around his incubator, singing 
and seems happy. His sores have almost completely healed up but he still 
has just skin under his wings. He's looking less oily and his feather 
dust is starting to improve. She's had him on antibiodics this whole 
time and vitamins.  She's going to keep him for about 5 more days to see 
how much he'll improve and then we'll take him home.

I'm so relieved! I can just picture him hopping around the top of his 
cage (both he and Ava do that all the time at home). Does anyone else 
have hopping cockatiels? Do you know why they do that??? It's too funny.

Again, thanks for all the support! I can't wait to have my birdie back 
home!  Hopefully Ava will be sweet to Garkon when he comes home. You'd 
think that Ava would be thrilled to see him, but it seems like Ava gets 
used to having the cage to himself and doesn't like to share!  Actually, 
it's the mirror. Ava can't seem to pull himself away from the mirror and 
gets really bugged if Garkon wants a turn, but most of the time Garkon 
could really care less!

What a relief.
Donna

    That's wonderful news about Garkon.  Maybe if this thing gets licked
    really thoroughly and you are able to build him back up again, he won't
    go through anymore bouts!

    How's Garkon doing?  Is the Giardia finally gone?
    
    Jeanne
    

Hi Jeanne,

Garkon finally came home on last saturday. He's goes between picking and 
healing, picking and healing. It's terrible. Dr. Kilgore taught me how 
to give him his shots so if I notice him starting to pick, I can start 
the antibiodic and treat it asap instead of having it get so bad. It 
seems that he'll be on antibiodics for the rest of his life (off and 
on), but besides that - he seems happy and is chirping/singing all the 
time.  I dont know what's next. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Thanks for asking!
Donna

    Maybe with ongoing treatment over time, he will be able to get strong
    enough eventually to simply not have this problem, or only get
    occasional flareups.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Mary

Garkon lasted at home for 2 weeks. I gave him the shots and things just 
didn't get better so I brought him back to the vets. I told Dr. Kilgore 
that she could have him as the hospital bird, or if she thought it was 
best, she had my permission to put him to sleep. He always seemed happy 
there, so I finally felt good about my decision.

Ava didn't do well without Garkon. He didn't move from his mirror, 
didn't sing, chirp and hardly ate. He was incredibly depressed. I had to 
beg and beg, but finally convinced my husband that Ava needed a 
companion. I got another grey cockatiel, but this one we're sure is a 
female and we named her Marilyn. Ava has really done a complete 180 and 
is happy, singing and playing with toys. He also can't seem to keep off 
of her. I'm wondering if I'll start discovering eggs in the cage soon. 
My husband and I have to laugh cuz obviously nobody told Ava that 
preening and flirting is required before copulating... I think Marilyn 
must have felt like she was bought as a little sex slave!! That was 
about 3 weeks ago and things seemed to have calmed down a little bit 
with the two of them...

I got a sad call from Dr. Kilgore this weekend. Garkon passed away. It 
seems he choked on some seed during the week, so she put him in an 
incubator, and a nebulizer and he was doing much better. Once they 
put him back in his cage, he did it again and died. She did an autopsy 
on him and found millet in is trachea. He went quick and didn't suffer.
I feel bad for the little guy. Dr Kilgore also said she checked his GI 
tract and it looked good. His only real problem was his feather picking.
And we never found out what caused it or how to stop it...

I feel sad and happy. I'm sad that Garkon was unhealthy the last year of 
his life, but happy that it's finally over for him and I'm happy that Ava is 
no longer deteriorating and seems to be flourishing with his new love 
interest. I believe I did what was necessary with both birds and hope I 
don't have to go thru this again in the near future.

Thanks for all your support and advice.
Donna

    Hi Donna,
    
    Thanks for the update and I am glad the sadness is over. Good luck with
    your new birds, it seems you are finally getting to enjoy the birds. It
    is hard to enjoy them when they are sick and the bills keep mounting up.
    
    Doug
    
    

    Donna, I'm really sorry about Garkon, but it sounds like he just wasn't
    meant to be here.  You did the best you could for him every step of the
    way....
    
    Congratulations on Marilyn.  Sounds like she's giving you, Ava and your
    husband lots of pleasure :-)
    
    Mary

    I read in a cockatiel book about this Giardia.
    
    ======================================================================
    
    Feather picking/plucking can be caused by the giardia parasite, they
    caused a earnest skin iritation.
    
    A product called GIARDIASIS could solve this feather picking/plucking.
    
    ======================================================================
    
    In the same book,
    
    Feather picking/plucking by baby cockatiels done by the breeding
    male/female could may be solved by trewing every day aloe powder
    around the neck of the babies.
    That aloe powder gives the older birds a bitter tast, in the hope they
    will stop feather picking.
    
    ======================================================================
    
    I've no experience with those two products, or where you can buy it.
    but may be know anyone more about this ?
    
    
    Regards,
    
     Johan