Conference 7.286::pet_birds

    Hi Nancy,
    
    	I had a conure that did that for over two years on and off. Your
    vet is probably right, in its source being stress. The most likely
    source is the other Love bird you added. 
    	There is a powdered medicine that is available for injured and
    sick birds, that I've used in stress related illnesses with much 
    success. I will try and remember to get the name and put it in here
    tommorrow.
    	Keep an eye on their behavior and see if the new bird is 
    dominating the other. With Love Birds, the Female is the dominate,
    and if the new bird is a female, then she may just be laying the law
    down. Most of us single males, go through a very stressful period of
    adjustment, believe me.
    	Of course you could have two birds of the same sex and one may just
    be dominating the other....
    	Or..., you bird may not like the attention you are giving the new
    bird.
    	If it is the begining of a pair bond, then the two birds will work
    it out and the chewing will stop. You'll just have to keep an eye on 
    Chet and to make sure he doesn't get an infection. Sometimes,
    separating the two birds for a week or so works wonders. If you do
    that, keep the two cages next to each other, so they can keep each
    other company, but can't bite through the bars.
    	I really doubt it is pair bonding at this stage of the game. That
    usually doesn't happen that quick. But, then again, they do call them
    Love Birds for a reason... I would suspect domininance,(Spelling?),
     or jealousy.
    	If you aren't already giving your birds some type of vitamins on
    a regular basis, you should start. That can only help.
    
    							Mark

    Your vet was probably Dr. Bill Sager.

    Well, to clarify the situation, Fruitloop (the new bird) has
    his own cage.  Previously Nat occupied the cage but Nat chose to
    reside with Chet and the Peach when Fruitloop arrived.
    
    (Chet, Nat and the Peach are all male, the Peach had a mate that
    passed on a year and a half ago.  The Peach is a Peachface.  Chet 
    and Nat used to be "an item" however when the Peach's mate died,
    the Peach bonded with Chet.)
    
    So the Peach and Chet had their own cage but now Nat has moved in 
    with them.  I think Chet feels uncomfortable with Nat and the Peach in
    the same cage.  (Are you keeping track of all this???)    ;^)
    I have several cages and I let the birds gravitate to whichever one
    they want to occupy.
    
    I purchased Fruitloop (undetermined sex) hoping that he and Nat 
    would hit it off - it looks like they are starting to, however Nat
    prefers to stay in the cage with the Peach and Chet.
    
    Chet is still knawing his leg.  He is alone in the cage.  I am thinking
    of putting the Peach in there with him and letting the other two reside
    in the other cage.
    
    I have noticed that Chet appears much more attentive and when I tell
    him "NO" he'll stop chewing his leg.  However he chews it when no one
    is looking.  
    
    BTW - Chet and Nat are Black Masks and Fruitloop is a Fischer.
    
    Does this sound like a birdie soap opera????
    
    Thanks for your comments.
    Nancy

    
    Hi,
    
    My bird isn't picking his feet, but under his wings...
    
    I brought my cockatiel (Garkon) in to Littleton Animal Hospital and I
    usually see Dr. Kilgore.  Initially she gave me some salve to put on
    Garkon along with an antibiodic I had to give him 2x daily.  She said
    if he didn't stop picking his feathers out and chewing at the skin
    under his wings, they'd have to put a collar on him. He didn't, so they
    did.  Unfortunately, Dr. Kilgore was out of the office and Dr. Sagar
    put the collar on him. The collar was much bigger than the bird and he
    thrashed around his cage and started panting and made me feel so bad
    for him I almost cried.  I also I just wasn't used to Dr. Sagar's
    "bedside manner"; Dr. Kilgore seems much softer in her ways. We ended
    up trimming the collar so he could eat and drink (when we got home) but
    Dr. Sagar said "oh, they always do that until they get used to the
    collar". 
    
    Garkon was finally diagnosed with Giardia.  I guess it's not that
    common in this part of the country, but is becoming more common.  They
    had to hospitalize him so they could give him daily injections for 3
    days.  He's home now, but still isn't feeling that good. His eyes are
    huge and he's lost weight.  I feel so bad for him.  The Dr. Sagar said
    it isn't that fatal and that he'll probably be alright.  They took the
    collar off and he seems to have stopped picking. Dr. Sagar was the
    care giver cuz Dr. Kilgore was on vacation and at first that made me
    uneasy, but obviously he was better with the bird than he was with me. 
    
    I have to call Dr. Kilgore on Friday to make sure my other birds don't
    have it too.  I guess this kind of thing could reoccur, but Dr Sagar
    said he'd teach me how to give the injections so I don't have to pay
    for hospitalization.
    
    Donna
                                                                          

    	Sounds like Day of Our Perch, (God, I hate soaps...)
    
    	Your last comment about paying attention to your commands, may
    mean that somone wants some attention. From my experience with 
    Love birds, Cockatoos, and Greys, I've found that they will do 
    whatever they have to to get said attention. It's only a guess at
    this time though.
    
    	Your plan sounds Ok for now. If that doesn't work, try giving
    Nat?, Peach?, Chet?, (I can't seem to get this right at all), or
    whoever it is, some extra attention and see what happens.
    
    
    						Good Luck!
    						   Mark

    LOVEBIRD UPDATE
    
    I got home from work Tuesday at 9:00pm - I was exhausted and wanted
    to put my feet up and relax.  I checked on Chet and the rest of the
    guys before I did anything else.
    Chet's cage had blood everywhere!!!  His leg had stopped bleeding
    by the time I got home so I called Dr Kilgore and she said that
    if the bleeding occured again that I should bring him in that night.
    Luckily he was ok through the night so I brought him in first thing
    Wednesday morning.
    She examined him and told me that besides stress, there is something 
    called Lovebird Pox that could be causing his problem.  (Lovebird
    Pox can be fatal)  :^(
    She though that he might have caught the pox from Fruitloop (the
    new bird I have had for a couple of months.)  She did a bioposy 
    on his leg (the only way to diagnose pox), did some blood work
    and I'll get the results of the tests tomorrow.  Meanwhile
    Chet still has antibiotics and he now has a collar so that he can't
    chew his leg.
    I feel so sorry for him - he looks pitiful and I am very worried 
    about his health as well as the health of the other birds.  He
    has started chewing on the collar and appears to be very uncomfortable
    with it, but its for his own good.
    I wish ther was some way for birds to communicate their pain and
    suffering to people, so that people could make them feel better.
    
    In terms of getting attention, I always give lavish praise to my 
    birds, spend alot of time with them, make sure they have adequate
    flight time and they probably eat better than alot of people.
    If Chet's condition is caused by stress, I hope I am able to identify the
    factors causing the stress because I really don't want to see Chet
    go through this again.  (Nor do I want to go through this again!!!) 
    Thank you for your comments.
    Nancy

    Hi Nancy,
    
    With Giardia, you need to be very careful as it is contagious to Humans
    and other Mammals as well. My family had a outbreak a couple of years
    ago. We think it came from Daycare, and that one of the daycare kids
    picked it up from drinking from a steam. I causes Diarhea in mammals,
    but is not life threatening.

Nancy,

I feel so bad for poor Chet.  It's so hard to see a bird you love be so
uncomfortable.  Things will get easier with the collar, just make sure the
cage is arranged (perches and things) so that he can't get the collar stuck.

It took Garkon 3 days before he was able to make it up to the top perch in
his cage, but I just moved everything down low to make it easier for him  to 
get at his food/water, etc.

How are your other two dealing with the sights of this collar?  Mine would hiss
at poor Garkon.

Dr Sagar told me to let the bird chew on the tape on the collar.  Garkon really
did a job on his, but it seemed to help pacify his frustration some what and the
desire to pick.

I hope Chet doesn't have the pox and everything works out well for you all.

Donna

Re: Giardia

Dr Sagar assured me that the Giardia parasite in birds is different than in 
humans and canines.  I was really concerned about my dog getting it cuz he's
constantly eating the birdseed off the floor under their cages, and sometimes
there's droppings down there too.  I hope he's right.

Donna

    My Kids doctor and my dogs doctor don't agree. my wife, my kids and
    myself all had the symtoms of giardia, although only my son showed
    positive. We were all treated and the symtoms went away. My dogs and
    birds didn't get it. I would tend to beleive Dr Sagar. I trust him more
    that any human dr. or my dogs vet(Cheaper that L.A.H.).
    

    Re: .10 interesting note - however we don't have the symptoms of
    giardia.  But for  the last six weeks I have been suffering
    (and I do mean suffering) with some type of respiratory ailment.
    As I have told my doctor, I feel just fine except I literally 
    can't breathe.  I have had episodes where I am talking to or
    near the birds and all of a sudden I can't breathe or I start
    having a coughing fit.  The birds have had quite a reaction to
    this.  Even with their little pea brains  ;^)  I think they realize that
    something is going on because they all seem to get really alarmed 
    by my breathing (or lack of).  I am wondering if this couldn't
    be the cause of some of their stress.  
    My birds and I are usually very healthy!!!!!
    Are there any respiratory problems in humans that can be passed
    on to birds and affect birds in any way?  I neglected to ask Dr Kilgore
    the question but I think I will mention it to her.
    BTW - my medical bills (HMO) have amounted to $3 per visit x 10 visits=$30.
    Chet's medical bills have been almost 10x that, however I
    am more impressed with his care and treatment than my own.
    
    Nancy

Hi Nancy,

I have read (maybe even in this conference) of a breathing problem caused by
bird feather dust.  I forget what it's called - probably somthing simple.  I
read of a woman that had this and the dr told her the only way to get better
would be to get rid of the birds.  She refused and her husband built her a
glass-type avery so she could enjoy the birds, but not be affected by their 
feather dust.  I don't think she could handle them again after all that.

Maybe you've developed some kind of allergy???

Donna

    Nancy,
    
         Here's sending healing vibes to Chet and you ;^) !  Hopefully Chet
    will get better quickly and be his old self.  Your note reminded me of
    two things that I have experienced with larger birds:
    
         Respiratory Problems - We have chickens and other large fowl, and 
    one of the things that they can get is Bronchitis.  We had one turkey
    who literally lived for a year with difficult breathing; we tried all
    kinds of different anti-biotics to no end.  She was lively enough; if
    spooked she would roost in a tree - literally 50+ feet high!  So we let
    her live her days out, and during the winter she passed on.  We never
    did catch anything from her or the chickens, so at least that isn't
    transmittible to humans.  Could it be that you are developing an
    allergy?
    
         Collars/Bands - I've tried to band my 4-yr-old baby Turkey (yeah,
    baby in actions but not in poundage - 40+ pounds!).  Tommy (nice name,
    eh?) kept taking the band off.  Even those plastic ring bands that are
    hard to put on in the first place!  I'd put him in my lap (this bird
    was hand-raised and is a *real* baby), struggle to get the ring on
    while he watched, then let him go.  Within 10 minutes he'd have it off. 
    And they say birds have bird-brains 8-) !
    
         Then I have a chicken who thinks she's a parrot - at least twice a
    week she'll fly onto my back, climb onto my shoulder and perch, making
    sure I take care of the food and water just so ;^) .  The hard part is
    getting her *off*!
    
         Oh, well, enough off the subject.  Just hope Chet gets better
    *real* soon!
    
    					- Andrea

    Re .12 -
    
         We raised 50 chicks in a spare bedroom and I can attest to the
    fact that they spread a *ton* of feather- and corn-dust all over the
    place.  That stuff is *so* fine that it goes right through the vacuum
    cleaner!!  The only way to get rid of it is wash every single item ...
    almost as bad as soot :-( .
    
         We built another barn so that we can breed outdoors ;^) !
    
    					- Andrea

    	Regarding the respiritory problem.  You should consult a physician.
    There is an ailment called Birdkeepers Lung, that's the layman's term,
    that can be very hazardous.  I've read stories of people who have had
    it all of a sudden and there is no way to get around it except to stay
    away from the birds!  If I were you I would have my doctor check this
    out.  If you would like, I'll see if I can find the article I read
    and I'll send it to you interoffice.
    
    Tom

    Chet Update   ;^)
    
    Chet is getting used to his collar however he has made it clear
    that he doesn't like it.  The worst part of it is that I have to
    grab him every night to put ointment on his leg.  His leg is looking
    much better however he has tried everything (standing on his head,
    hanging upside down, etc) to chew his leg.
    The vet still hasn't received the biopsy results so I am still nervous
    about him having pox.  
    
    Thats it for now.
    Regards,
    Nancy (and Chet)

    Chet Update   ;^)
    
    The collar was taken off Chet yesterday (he had it ten weeks!)
    and he has spent hours preening himself.  I have let him go
    back to the cage with his mate the Peach and his buddy Natalie.
    I am giving him vitamins on a regular basis and I've expanded 
    his menu to include alot more fruit, veggies, rice and pasta.
    I am hoping that he does not pick up the old habit of chewing on
    his leg.
    He had flight time last night for the first time in ten weeks
    and he got quite abit of exercise.  I hope they all stay
    healthy for a long time.
    This whole experience was probably as traumatic for Chet as it
    was for me!!
    Nancy