Conference 7.286::pet_birds

For the record, I currently have:

4 pet birds - an umbrella cockatoo, a citron cockatoo, a grey cheek parakeet,
and a white front amazon.

Breeders:	Many zebra finches (somewhere around 25 at last count)
		including normals, a beautiful line of chestnut flanked whites,
		and the start of a nice fawn line

		A pair of owl finches

		A pair of star finches

		A pair of silver button quail

		2 gold breast cocks (looking for hens to mate with them)

		A diamond dove cock (looking for a hen)
    
    		A society finch cock

		3 pair of American budgies

		A young pair of English budgies

		A pair of Senegal parrots

                                    

Wednesday, November 21:

We're going away for four days for Thanksgiving, the first time we've left for
a holiday since my bird population soared from 4 to 40+.  Asking my roommate to
feed the pet birds, the cats, and the dog is one thing; to ask him to take care
of the entire aviary is a little extreme.  So it's time to get creative.

I've just redone my bird room.  I've put in 4 large flight cages, 2x2x3, which
have shelves underneath, and shelves above.  The cages are hardwood and
1/2"x1/2" mesh.  The four cages are occupied by: 1: Owl finchs 2: Gold breast
waxbills 3: Star finches 4: Button quail.  The 4th cage will also contain the
marked white zebra line when I return.  For now, the zebras are all in a large
(4x3x3) flight which is rapidly becoming overcrowded.  The budgies are in
pairs, caged on the shelves above the flights.  The room is lighted with
fluorescent plant lights and vitalights (a total of 5 strips), currently
sitting on the floor because I haven't drilled holes in the ceiling yet.

So...off I went, and (eventually) located a grounded light timer for my
lighting.  And I picked up 5 each of the box-type chick feeders and the
automatic chick watering fountains from the local feed and grain store.  I also
picked up the 2week seed & water fountains for each of the budgie cages.  (Two
weeks!  Whose sad little no-appetite budgies are they feeding?  Not mine,
piglets that they are!)  Now I could leave my birds for the four days, running
on automatic.  An added advantage here is that even during normal times, I can
get away with feeding, watering, and changing cage papers (there is less
spillage of water and feed from this system - the cages stay relatively clean) 
every 2-3 days, and just feed eggfood and veggies daily.  This cuts my workload
in a major way.  

Next thing, I call my friend in Connecticut to confirm that she can take my owl
finch to the NEFF show.  My sweet little owl finches laid two clutches of
infertile eggs - I had two hens!  The breeder lives in Maryland, so we needed
to arrange an exchange over Thanksgiving when she was up here for NEFF (New
England Finch Fanciers).  

Good news - my friend says she and her SO have located a woman who needs to get
rid of her pair of society finches (I have one lone society, whose mate died
eggbound) and their five babies.  I'm getting society finches for
Christmas!!!!!!!  Yippeeee!!!!  As soon as the young are old enough, I'll let
my lonesome society cock select a mate from them.

And now I go and net the owl finch to put her into the carrying cage. 
Naturally I net the wrong one at first.  When I get the one I intended (after
wearing us *both* out!), she slips out of my net and we have a lovely game of
chase around the aviary room, much to the distress of the other occupants.

Finally, 7pm, a 5+hour drive ahead of us, everything is ready, the car is
packed and ready to go.  The owl finch goes out, last thing, to the heated car,
and we're on the road.

					/Rita

    
    Thursday, November 21:
    
    I wake up to the sound of loud, chirping birds.  "Oh, no, I've
    overslept and the birds are hungry!"  Then I realized that I was not at
    home - I was in a motel room in New Jersey.  Outside my window I found
    a pidgeon, some sort of grackle, and several sparrows all chirping it
    up.  This hobby does strange things to one's reactions - this summer,
    every time I passed a nest with begging chicks outside in the wild, I
    was filled with an overwhelming urge to mix up some Lake's handfeeding
    formula :-)
    
    Sunday, November 25:
    
    I've had an enjoyable holiday with my SO, his family, and his young son
    (3years old, who asked "Where's my birds?" as soon as we saw him ;-). 
    Frequent calls home have my roommate assuring me that yes, the birds
    are alright, in fact the quails have eggs.
    
    After a grueling trip in the worst traffic I've ever had the dubious
    privilege of participating in, we arrive in Hartford to pick up my new
    owl finch.
    
    The bird is in lovely feather, and is pretty and well formed.  However,
    he looks very stressed, and a little puffy.  I, of course, fret
    endlessly about this.  We drink coffee and relax for a while, then
    cover the bird and hit the road.
    
    First thing on arriving, I check the aviary.  Food and water held out
    just fine with the automatic systems.  The start finches laid an egg
    while I was gone.  The quails have four eggs.  They have pulled all the
    shavings out of the corner and left them uncovered, but they are not
    sitting them.  Dear Santa, mama needs an egg incubator and an
    auto-turner for Christmas :-)
    
    Then, I notice the tragedy.  It was not apparent until I opened the
    door of the zebra flight and all the finches flew around.  One very
    young (1 month) split-to-fawn normal cock has gotten his foot and band
    caught in the seam of the feeder box, and his hanging, flapping wildly. 
    The foot is nearly (but not quite) detached, and the foot and leg have
    become gangrenous.  The little guy was in obvious pain, and would
    clearly die of infection even if the foot was amputated.  (Caught in
    time, many finches will survive amputation, but, of course, cannot
    perch steadly enough to mate.)  It was necessary to euthanize the
    little guy.  His neck was broken to cause immediate death.  It was
    quick and the finch was no longer suffering, but I was very sad and
    depressed.  This is something a pet owner rarely has to deal with, but
    it is a fact of life for a breeder :-(  The more birds you have, the
    more potential for things to go wrong, and it just isn't possible to
    anticipate everything.  The feeders now have their seams covered with
    duct tape to keep the smaller, younger birds from catching their feet.
    
    

    
    Sunday Evening, November 25:
    
    After recovering from the tragedy with the zebra finch, it is time to
    take care of the new owl.  The hen in the aviary is *furious* that I
    have taken her mate.  I've had word from my friend that the hen I sent
    to NEFF to exchange was every bit as angry and vocal.  She did,
    however, oblige my friend by laying an egg on the floor of her carrying
    cage, so I guess she was ok :-)
    
    The new owl finch is still looking somewhat stressed after the ride,
    although better than he looked when I picked him up.  (My friend breeds
    reptiles - I suspect the smell and presense of snakes and lizards in
    the same room was a little upsetting!)  Since both birds were clearly
    unhappy, I chose to requarantine the hen so that she could be with her
    new mate.  He wouldn't leave his carrying cage until he saw her.  As
    soon as he laid eyes on her, however, he was after her like a shot! 
    She immediately started preening him and soliciting courtship.  I think
    they are going to be just fine!
    
    

    
    Monday, November 26:
    
    Both owl finches look great!  A little love goes a long way...no sign
    of stress.
    
    Everyone gets eggfood and brocolli after 4 days of just seed and water,
    except the gold breasts.  They get insectile food (VitaVittles
    Finch&Softbill - dried insects, yummy) since they won't touch eggfood. 
    My eggfood recipe consists of 2 eggs poached in the microwave, mixed
    with wheat germ, bone meal, and petamine.  They, for the most part,
    didn't even wait until I got my hands out of the cages before attacking
    their treats.  I guess they missed me (or my cooking :-)!
    
    Tuesday, November 27:
    
    The stars have another egg!
    
    And...today we discovered *2* eggs, not in the center, but all the way
    in the corner, of one of the budgie nest boxes.  The proud
    parents-to-be are first-timers, a beautiful lutino American hen named
    Audrey, and a nice yellow pied American cock named Cooper.  They are
    fiercly protective of their nest box.  Audrey rarely comes out of it
    these days.  When I learned of the new budgie eggs, I very calmly left
    the aviary, went downstairs and got a respectable distance from the
    birds, JUMPED UP AND DOWN LIKE A CHILD AND WHOOPED LOUDER THAN AN
    ENRAGED COCKATOO!!!!! GAWDS, I'M SO EXCITED!!!!! (This is one of the
    parts that make this worth it!)
    
    

    
    Wednesday, November 28:
    
    I know why the quails aren't incubating.  They abandoned the clutch of
    four, and created another clutch (five this time!) in the other corner
    in the flight.  These they appear to be incubating.  I tossed the
    abandoned clutch.  I understand that quails may lay 16 or more eggs at
    a time, all fertile, but can only inucbate 6 or so.  Guess I still
    could use the incubator.
    
    The star finches have four eggs now.  The hen, Morgan, is not
    incubating.  Abend, her mate, has turned into a bully - he has kept her
    cowering behind the feeder and attacks her when she comes out.  I am
    thinking about removing him.  My flights used to be canary cages, and
    so have hooks on the sides that smaller cages can be hung from.  I may
    put him in a little cage hung up on the flight.  I hope she will sit
    her clutch and raise babies by herself.  I wonder if my lonesome male
    society finch would help her raise them?
    
    

    
    	I've been into birds for about 10 years, but it was only in the
    last four that I moved up to hobbiest breeding.
    	I just jot my hobbiest breeder license, this summer. Currently I 
    have:
    
    2 breeding pair of Lovebirds, one pair's babies are almost fully
    weaned. The other pair has fours eggs that Mom is taking great care 
    of.
    	From these two pair, I have thirteen babies.
    
    I have a pair of Nanday Conures, who have hatched one clutch with two
    babies that are doing fine. (They do need a home though....)
    
    2 Goffin Cockatoos, a male and female, the male, Beau, is a hopefull
    mate for Chrissy. So far they are doing great! Except that Chrissy is
    getting very possesive about Beau and has attacked two of my Lovebirds
    on two different occasions, until I moved them to a diferent cage where
    she couldn't get to the LoveBirds. Until I installed keyed locks, she
    managed to figure out every lock I put in. Her favorite trick is to
    escape and then unlock all the other cages, except for the Grey aviary
    so she can visit and play. Beau has changed all this. Now she stays at
    home and keeps Beau in line. Must be Love... or is it just Marriage?...
    
    1 Halfmoon Conure, Suzy, that I am currently looking for a mate for.
    
    Six African Greys, Three pairs, one of which includes my Good Buddy, 
    Jonsey and his girl Isabelle.  Of the three pairs, one pair is
    currently setting up house in one of three nest boxes set up for them.
    It was interesting to watch the male, ( I have a multi-camera system, 
    which I use to watch the birds without disturbing them), check out each
    nestbox over a period of three weeks before settling down to the middle
    one.  Now both birds have started the courtship routines, and have been
    shredding my newspaper flooring and carrying it up to the nest.  
    	Two of the pairs, are housed in an 8'X 5'X 6' aviary in the bird
    room, or as my friends call it, The Pet Shop. Jonsey and his girl have 
    their own cage next to my bed. They are allowed to run somewhat-free
    when I am home, but under supervision.  Jonsey loves to walk down the
    edge of my waterbed, climb over to my book rack and shred anything
    found there. Of course Isabell goes everywhere Jonsey goes.  I'm not
    sure if it's True Love or just plain old Monkey See, Monkey Do, yet.
    	I also have a row of fish tanks in which I am attempting to breed
    Discus.  Between the sound of the running water and the sound of the
    birds, you could shut off all the lights, and after a while, you would
    swear that you are camping in the Amazon near a stream.
    
    	I think it's great!!!
    
    
    						Mark
    
    					   

    
    Mark,
    
    Your collection sounds just grand!  What do you feed your birds? 
    What's your day-to-day birdroom routine like?  How do you manage to
    also hold a fulltime job :-)?
    
    Discus, huh?  I did fish for a while - salt and fresh.  I had some
    minor success breeding tetras, but nothing to speak of.  Breeding fish
    (with the exception of livebearers like guppies and platies) makes
    breeding of the most difficult finches and hookbills look easy!
    
    						/Rita
    

    
    	I have two fulltime jobs. One is with Digital and the other is my
    Babies.  I spent approximately 2 hours a day cleaning tanks, changing
    papers, feeding etc, not to mention working with the babies for those
    who want their birds hand trained.  After two years I have it down to
    a science. I set up a drain to drain 40% of the water from each tank.
    While this is happening, I vacuum and clean the Lovebird cages. I have
    an automatic, central filtering system and use that to refill all the
    Tanks, after vacuuming the bottoms, once they have drained. Once I
    start pumping fresh water back into the system I change the papers in
    the Grey cage and vacuum their floor. The only danger is in getting too
    involved in the bird work and having a tank overflow while adding fresh
    water. So far I haven't had too many floods, so I'll say it works
    reasonably well.
    
    	I am currently building a replacment cage for my lovebirds. My last
    cage, I built using PVC pipe. It worked great for the Grey's cage but
    not for the lovebirds. I decided that it wasn't working when one of my
    Lovebird babies escaped and got to close to my Cockatoos. The Female
    mauled the Lovebird and unfortunately the baby lost it's left foot from
    the ankle down. No. 1, as I call him, is doing fine though and seems to
    get along OK without the leg. I'm keeping him with Mom for a bit
    until, I finish his apartment and install a nest box for him to rest
    in.
    	I converted an old MagTape cabinet into a 7 apartment Condo and
    have finished everything except knocking out the openings to the nest
    boxes on the second level. I have two levels of three single breeder
    cages each and the bottom is a large cage for the baby Lovebirds.
    So far it seems to be working out.
    	When I am not working in the Pet Shop, I have two monitors sitting
    above my TV so I can watch the Greys. I have one male that is feeding
    his girl on a regular basis now and since they have already picked out
    a nest box, I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed.
    	I feed my birds two basic seed mixes which I pick up from a
    wholesaler east of town. One mix is set up for the larger birds and the
    other is mostly millet set up for the Lovebirds. Along with that I add
    corn cobs, peas, apples, and grapes for treats.
    
    							Mark

    I had only heard about lovebirds being anything but, but now I know
    from firsthand experience.  Parents raised a super clutch of four,
    and seemed to be doing great with their next clutch.  Moved the family
    to a large flight/weaning cage.  Two days later in the morning when
    I did rounds one of the babies had been picked around the neck.  The
    night before a chick that I now figure was this one was sitting out
    on the perch at lights out (they have an oversize nest box for
    sleeping).  I, in my great ignorance but meaning well, caught him
    and put him in the nest.  Maybe because it was dark they attached
    him, I don't know.  I also don't know why he was in the far corner
    of the cage, unless he had already started to be picked on and was
    afraid to go in the nestbox.  Anyway, I moved the parents to their
    own cage and left the five chicks together (the older chicks will
    usually feed the younger ones, if needed, although this group was
    weaned according to their age, anyway).  I cleaned the little guy
    up last night and was horrified to see the extent of the damage.
    Today he looks better (has been alert and active the whole time,
    thankfully).   Anybody know what I did wrong, if anything?  I know
    that it might not have anything to do with what I did or didn't do,
    but if I need to learn something here, I'm ready!!
    
    Thanks for any advice based on your own experiences....
    
    "still_learning_the_hard_way" (all this and a job, too)
    
    Linda

    Oh Linda,  do I know how THAT feels.  I ended up having one
    healthy baby out of a clutch of 7 last summer.  The baby and I
    were glued together at the hip till he was on his own.  I love him
    to pieces.  Now here I go again (or here the parents go again).
    They have 6 eggs, so far, and a much bigger breeding box that my
    dad built for them.  I'm so afraid that they will hurt these babies.
    Last time I thought it was the father who was abusing them and I 
    removed him.  I found out a few days later that the mother was
    picking at the only survivor.  Poor thing, she had no feathers left
    on her head and neck (he/she, I'm still not sure which).  I took the
    baby out and hand fed him,  took him to work with me every day, took
    him camping with me and got up every 2 hours to feed him.  It was
    a lot of work, but worth it.  I really don't want to do THAT again
    so I've arranged for a neighbor share the care while I'm at work if
    it becomes necessary.  I think I'll put mom on birth control pills
    or as someone in the file suggested a while back.........get them a
    marriage license.
    
    
    Good luck with your babies!
    
    Jeannie

    Jeanne--re sexing your young cockatiel...I believe the hens have spots
    on the wing feathers and bars on the tails...males have no barring
    on the tail....others out there know exactly about this? /Linda

    I was very nervous about my goldcapped conure hen laying her first 
    clutch.  I have this fear of egg-binding possibly killing a bird when
    I am not home to help.....Anyway, I am writing this in the spirit of
    the breeder's log that Rita started for all of us...Thanks, Rita!
    
    The hen was on her third day, obviously very ready to lay an egg (yes,
    a bird can look pregnant!).  Conures lay every two to three days, but
    I was worried because she was so swollen and obviously uncomfortable,
    moving around very slowing and carefully and a little puffed up.  Books
    say watch for puffed up hens, so the alarm went off!!  The key that I
    now know to look for, based on several calls to more experienced
    breeders, is whether the hen is virtually immobilized, staying in one
    spot on the floor of the cage, not in the nestbox (although I still
    think it's possible that a hen could get egg-bound while in the nest).
    The hen also is listless and out of touch with her surroundings.  My
    hen was moving around the breeding cage, interacting with her mate, 
    eating and drinking, and even came out to sit on my shoulder twice
    during the day (not something I usually encourage, but I wasn't about
    to stop her doing *anything* this particular day, figuring she would
    know best what she wanted and could do).  Her mate stayed by her side
    all the time, including coming out onto my shoulder...he would hold
    his head close to hers and make those funny conure noises.....Late
    that afternoon, I checked and the egg had passed, no blood, no
    problems, a perfectly normal egg.  She is ready to lay her third
    egg, so I'm getting nervous again :'(    My sun conure hen doesn't
    even show at all that she is carrying the egg and has laid two 
    clutches without a hitch, but the gold-capped conure is a slightly
    older hen, with a slightly younger mate.  (Don't know if that 
    matters any....)  Anybody have any advice about what to watch for
    with egg-binding?  I have been giving the gold-capped hen NeoCalGlycon
    syrup in her water (calcium supplement, given to children who are 
    lactose-intolerant), oyster shells, Nekton-MSA on her egg-food,
    with the shells crushed along with the egg, bone meal powder in the
    egg food....
    
    Linda  

    My girlfriend lost her cockateil to egg-binding in the nestbox.  Her
    mate screamed all day long according to her mother and that is what
    tipped us off to the problem.  We replaced the bird that same day and
    they accepted easch other right away.  Interesting tid-bit I thought
    I'd add.

    
    I've lost a society finch to eggbinding in the nest.  The hen in
    question just *wouldn't* come off the nest.  I knew she had eggs
    already, so I figured she was just sitting really tight.  Then, one
    evening, she left the nest, went to the cage floor, clearly eggbound,
    and died in a matter of minutes - before I could even get a heated
    hospital cage into place.  Weird.  The male in this case has lost every
    hen I have ever placed with him to eggbinding - this one was the
    second.  And yet they have the same environment, diet, and conditions
    as all my other finches, and none of the others has had any problems
    with eggbinding so far.  I wonder if it is possible that it has
    something to do with the male bird?  In any case, the male is willing
    to sit and foster other birds' eggs *by himself*, so for now, he is a
    happy foster parent, raising Star and Owl finch chicks.  I think I'm
    going to leave it at that, since he seems content enough.
    
    
    					/Rita
    

    Good news...the gold-capped hen successfully passed her third egg and
    is sitting tight on the eggs now.  Conures lay every two to three
    days...guess she is one of the three-day types!  She is still getting
    the NeoCalGlucon syrup daily though, in addition to egg food with
    shells, Nekton-MSA, and vitalites.  Just in case....  Thanks for the
    replies to my .13!! /Linda

    A quick anecdote to the non-believers... the Vitalites or near
    equivalents DO make a difference.  I have a breeding room with single
    cages around the perimeter, with double-Vitalites over all, except for
    the two lovebird cages at one end, where I ran out of money for
    Vitalites and put regular flourescents....Never again.  These two
    had problems with dead-in-shell chicks and one deformed chick...on 
    exactly the same diet, etc. and cage set-up as all the rest of the
    breeders.  They now have Vitalites!!!!  I had heard and read that
    these full-sprectrum lights reduce breeding failures.  Now I know
    it is true.  Vitalites is a brand name/trademark.  I understand there
    are other names out there with similar positive results for breeders.
    The $$ per bulb I didn't spend was very foolish economy.  I've learned
    yet another lesson the hard way.  You can get 15 watt 18 inch bulbs
    that go in a simple 'lite stick' fixture you can get at K-Mart or
    your local hardware store --or the 48 inch 40 watt bulbs that fit in
    any shoplite fixture.  Spend a few extra dollars for the best shoplite
    fixture you can find, though, otherwise you'll have a lot of buzzing
    from the fixture.  Great thing to ask for since Christmas is here!
    /Linda

    The clutch of lovebirds I mentioned elsewhere in this notesfile..the
    one that has a creamino (red-eyed, very pale yellow-also called
    albino), one chick hatched with white fuzz instead of orange-yellow
    (appears to be coming out slate gray), and one that may be a normal
    green or Dutch blue....Anyway, the parents attacked the creamino
    chick, the oldest, on Chrismas eve, so I pulled the whole clutch.
    A lone chick has a tougher time, and frankly, hand-feeding three
    small ones really doesn't take much longer than one, because so much
    time is put into the preparation of the formula, etc.  So far all
    are doing well, the creamino's eyelid that was bruised has healed,
    and most of the bloody pinfeather sheaths are okay now on the creamino.
    Lovebirds are much easier to handfeed than conures!!  I pulled them 
    at the first sign of trouble, especially since this was the first
    clutch for these birds, although the parents are certainly old enough
    to breed....they are both visual normal greens, by the way.....so they
    have some interesting genetics behind them!!  The hen has been
    constructing a new nest, so part of the problem may be that they were
    ready to go to nest again.  These two were 'rescue birds' picked up
    very inexpensively and in less than wonderful condition from a private
    party who was providing foster care of sorts, having inherited the pair
    from a son who went into the armed services and left them behind to be
    sold.  I'm sure she would be relieved to hear they are doing fine now.
    And she would probably be shocked to find out that the one creamino chick 
    is worth three times what the parents cost!!!
    
    Linda

    Update on note -.1....all chicks are doing beautifully, thank heavens!
    
    Linda

    
    	Today I have much to be happy about.  For the last Month or so two
    of my three pairs of African Greys have been going throught the
    courting rituals. With my video camera set-up, I have been able to tape
    some of the rituals.  They took two weeks to select the nest box out of
    the three that I put in the cage.  The male was the first to enter each
    box. He quickly disgarded the first nestbox, which I fear had to big of
    an opening and wasn't deep enough.  Then he concentrated on the other
    two, spending time in each one for the first week.
    	During the second week the Female started checking out the two
    nestboxes and torward the end of that week finally started spending a
    lot her time in the middle one.  
    	The male continued to badger the other male but never really hurt
    him or kept him from eating so I have refrained from sectioning off the
    cage to give each pair their own area. I feared that this might
    interrupt the courting pair and didn't want to do that unless it was
    absolutely neccessary.
    	The male has been feeding his mate quite often during this time and now
    spends a lot of his time sitting near the nestbox or on the perch at
    the entrance. I started checking the nestbox both when the pair was
    away from it and when they were in it.  This was to check for activity
    or eggs and also to accustom them to my presence while they were in the
    nest.  Although they did a little growling, they didn't seem to mind
    that much.
    	Just in the last couple of days, I noticed that the Female was
    spending a lot more time in the nest. Today I checked when I came home
    from work, while she was out sitting with her mate, and there was one
    egg in the nest.  As soom as I left the room to get fresh water the
    Female re-entered the nest. I checked her again and she was sitting on 
    the egg, while keeping both eyes on me.
    	I've bred Lovebirds in the past and also the Nanday Conures, but I 
    have to admit, that this beats them all hands down.  If the egg, or eggs
    as the case may be, hatches, I'll be passing out cigars like any proud 
    father... Ok, so they might be the exploding kind, but they'll still 
    be cigars.
    
    						
    						Mark			

    
    	The second egg was laid Saturday during the day.  Mom scared me by
    moving to  the other nest box on friday, but that was only for that one
    day. She went back to the nest box she laid the first egg in and laid
    another one.  
    
    	She has now seriously started to incubate the two eggs which pretty
    much follows what most of the Books on Greys say.  she hardly comes out
    of the nest box at all now, the male taking caring feeding her in the 
    nest box.
    
    	Today I picked up another cage and moved the remaining pair of
    Greys into that cage and away from the breeding pair.  I will
    eventually section off the cage and let each pair have a section to
    themselves.  At this point I don't want to do anything to disturb
    the breeding pair.  If the eggs do hatch then I might install the
    partion when they reach approximately three weeks old.
    
    						Mark

    Earlier in this note it was mentioned that male finch missing a leg 
    could not properly perch and therefore could not breed. Is this 
    true in all cases. I have recently adopted a female zebra finch, who
    immediately paired up with my zebra finch with one leg. They are
    presently sitting on five eggs. I also have a white male which I've
    seen attempting to mate with the female zebra. Does anyone have any
    idea if there is a chance these eggs are fertile.
    
    Thanks
    Dave

    I have several birds - 1 amazon, 3 black faced love birds, and 1
    parakeet - but have (had?) no intention of breeding them.  My lovebirds
    are in a regular cage with paper on the bottom.  One of them has been
    going through nesting behavior of ripping the paper to shreds and
    hiding under it.  I noticed yesterday that she had laid an egg and I was
    wondering what the possibilities for incubation and birth are under
    those circumstances.  What should I be doing - if anything to ensure
    its survival? 
    
    Thanks.
    Linda
    
    

    
    	I've never had any of my lovebirds lay an egg on the bottom of the
    cage but I've heard of it happening. Unfortunately I never heard if
    any lived. My best guess would be that they wouldn't survive, but
    that's only a guess. 
    	If you've decided to see this throught, I would suggest that you
    pick up a nestbox and install in on the outside of the cage. Put some
    woodchips inside, (use non-treated wood chips) and move the egg to the 
    nestbox. The parents may immediately move into the nestbox and finish
    laying the rest of the eggs. If so you will get anywhere from 2 to 5 
    eggs. I've heard of six but I think that is rare.  Most of my clutches
    were five with a few clutches of four.
    	In my case it took a while for the birds to accept the nestbox and
    start going inside, so just putting a nestbox in may not help. It's
    worth a try though, and they usually aren't that expensive.
    	If you decide that's too much effort, then I would suggest you
    either add more newspaper and let the parents shred it up of shred some
    more up yourself and add it to the cage.  Mom may build her own nest out 
    of shredded paper and do just fine with that.
    	Let us know how it works out.
    
    
    							Mark
    

    
    	The third Grey egg was laid last night, but I'm not sure everything
    is still going OK.
    	Mom appears to be spending part of her day in the other nestbox
    instead of in the box with the eggs.  So far she returns to the Egg box
    each night, but seems to spend part of her daytime in the second box.
    	She comes out around 8PM or so and the Dad feeds her.  Once she's
    done she returns to the Egg box. I've considered blocking the second
    nestbox's entrance but decided to let nature run it's course this time.
    	None of the books I have mention this sort of activity, so I'm not
    sure if it's normal or not.  Oh well... Time will tell.
    
    
    							Mark

    You said you have three lovebirds.....if at least one of them is a
    male, you've got a chance the eggs are fertile.... ;')
    
    I have had to move lovebird hens with eggs into new 'facilities' and
    have had good luck.  I make a small indentation in the pine shavings
    (available from any pet store that has gerbil-type supplies).  Then
    I arrange the eggs in as close to the same arrangement as the hen had.
    If she had brought other items into the previous nestbox, I put some
    of these on top of the fresh shavings so the nest *looks* the same.
    Birds don't have a terrific sense of smell, but they sure seem to
    notice things visually.  If the egg(s) on the bottom of the cage can
    have a heating pad put under the part of the cage bottom where they 
    are, they'll have a better chance of surviving, whether just until
    you move them or if she nests there (not a good place).  A standard
    budgie nestbox, sold in most well-equipped pet stores, will do fine
    for your lovebird.
    
    Keep us posted!  And good luck!
    
    Linda

    
    	Today I became a happy man.  This morning I made my usual morning
    check of the eggs and lo and behold, one of the eggs was slightly
    crushed.  I was horrified that Mom had done this accidently.
    	It wasn't Mom. I realized that what I thought was just a feather
    stuck to the egg was in fact the leg of a chick.  I watched it abit
    to make sure that it was alive and after confirming this. Closed up 
    the nestbox to let Mother Nature and Mom take care of things.
    	After two and a half hours the chick had only managed to make a
    hole a little smaller than dime-size in the side of the egg. Although
    the chick was quite vocal, which surprized me even though I had read
    that Grey chicks were very vocal, I was worried that maybe the chick
    had exhausted itself and was unable to break out of the egg. I decided
    to risk a helping hand.
    	It turns out, the only thing I was risking was my own hand.  Every
    time I put my hand in torward the egg, Mom came after me, jaws agape.
    I finally manged to pick up the egg. I cracked it in half and put both
    halfs back in the nestbox.  Within minutes the chick was able to roll,
    crawl out of it's half.
    	While this was going on Mom wasn't letting me off quite so easy.
    She was growling the whole time I had the chick and didn't stop until
    I put him back in the nestbox.  Even dad joined in from his pearch out
    in the cage.  As soon as I came out from behind the cage, Dad made his
    way over to the nestbox and entered it.  He spent the next forty-five
    minutes, sitting just inside the opening.  Dad, the proud defender of 
    his familly.
    	Since I did see Dad go down into the nestbox, I wanted to check
    to see if he had done anything bad to the baby.  He hadn't.  Throughout
    the day, Day kept coming back to the nestbox and sitting just inside
    the entryway. I checked twice more and so far so good.
    	The chick seems to be doing fine and I hope to have two more within
    the week.
    
    
    						Mark
      

    Congradulations!  Just be careful when you "hatch" the chicks yourself.
    I spent my entire Senior year of college hatching chicks and it
    can take all day to hatch.  Mom and dad ususally help out if it
    is necessary.  Alot of times that extra few hours allows for the
    poop shoot (I can't recall the technical name) to close off and
    withdraw into the chick.  I got impatient once and lost my first
    batch.  I'm not sure if it is the same with all birds but it is
    with chickens.
    Lisa

    
    	Fortunately, the chick seems to be doing fine. Mom wasn't too happy
    about my helping and Dad was Pissed!. Soon as I left, he came over and
    sat in the doorway of the nest box for about forty-five minutes.
    	The second egg appears to be getting ready to hatch.  I noticed
    that one end of the egg appears to be damaged, and picked at. This
    happened to the first egg also. I am hoping to have another chick late
    today or tommorrow maybe.
    	I tried to find any information on how long it normally took for a
    grey egg to hatch once the chick started to break out, but couldn't. 
    Because of a fear of having the chick exhaust itself trying to get out,
    I decided to help. I've asked my Vet and they are trying to find out
    also.
    	I'll update this as things go along. Now I know what it's like
    being a nervous father/uncle...

    Two places to call for advice on greys hatching.....Wingsong Aviaries
    inerrimack, NH at 603-880-6383--talk with Brian.  Or Jean Cloutier,
    603-668-6122, in Manchester, NH.  /Linda

    
    	Thanks, Linda.  I was able to get in touch with a Grey breeder 
    here in Colorado. She told me that it could take up to four days from
    piping to hatching.
    
    	At this point I am concerned about the second egg. Although there
    is a pinhole in one end, it still hasn't hatched and today is going
    on five days. Tonight, I plan on candling the egg to see if there is
    a chick in there.
    
    	Chick #1 is doing great! I can see that he is being fed. I have
    been able to see his crop each day since saturday and he is being fed.
    Dad spends a lot of time in the nestbox these days.  According to my
    Grey book, he takes care of most of the feeding of the chick along with
    Mom. 
    
    
    						Mark

    
    	Well it looks like I will only have the one Grey chick.  I candled
    both of the other eggs and although there was what looked a chick in
    each, I couldn't see any motion.  I decided to break the 2nd egg open
    and discovered a fully developed dead chick. Apparently it was unable 
    to break out of the egg and Mom didn't seem to know enough to help the
    chick out.  Having been told by a breeder to let Mother nature take
    her course might be good advice, but I think that I will set a time
    limit of twenty-four hours next time. If the chick doesn't break out
    in that time frame, then I'll candle it and make my decision then.
    	The second chick apparently broke the yoke sac, as it showed what
    looked like a tear that didn't look fresh.  Once the sac was broken
    the chick probably didn't last long.
    	The one live chick is doing great and has grown quite a bit so far.
    I guess I'll look at the bright side of things and be happy that I
    have the one chick and a known good pair.
    	
    
    						Mark

    Hi Mark,
    
    It is such a tough decision to know whether to intervene when the chick
    isn't coming out on schedule.  Sometimes the chick makes it, most of
    the time it doesn't.  There are those that say a weak chick that
    wouldn't have made it out of the eggshell without your help might
    have had something wrong with it, and wouldn't have survived in the
    wild anyway.  Others say that since we are intervening in nature by
    keeping birds in cages, we should do what we can within reason to
    assist when necessary.  Always a very personal judgement call.  And
    yes, congratulations on the one baby and the good parents!!!  My sun
    conures only had one chick in their first clutch, and I am thankful
    to this day for the beautiful little bird.  
    
    Best wishes,
    
    Linda C.