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Conference 7.286::pet_birds

Title:Captive Breeding for Conservation--and FUN!
Notice:INTROS 6.X / FOR SALE 13.X / Buying a Bird 900.*
Moderator:VIDEO::PULSIFER
Created:Mon Oct 10 1988
Last Modified:Tue Jun 03 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:942
Total number of notes:6016

443.0. "Grit and Greys!" by SALSA::DEFRANCO () Wed Oct 31 1990 14:49

    I have a few questions today.  The first is concerning the subject of
    "grit".  My teils get a good diet of Kaytee seed, plenty of vegies,
    cereal and other people food but no grit!  Is grit something they
    should be getting?  They do have one of those black mineral/lava rocks
    that they chew on from time to time.  Is this sufficient?
    
    The second questions concerns Timneh Greys.  I read the article in the
    latest Bird Talk about Greys and they do sound interesting.  Could
    someone please share some knowledge with me concerning Greys.
    
    Do Timneh's tend to be friendly with everyone in the home (like a
    teil?) or do they pick one person as their own?  This is very important
    to me as my husband and I have agreed never to purchase a pet that
    would like one of us and not the other.
    
    Do Timneh's live as long as Congo's?
    
    Do Timneh's talk and mimic as much as congo's?
    
    What's the average price of a hand fed Timneh?
    
    Thanks for sharing this info with me.  I don't know if I will ever be
    able to talk my hubby into getting a third bird but at least I will be
    armed with good information.
    
    
    Jeanne
    
    
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443.1Attempt to answer your questions...CLOSET::COMPTONLinda DTN381-0687 ZKO1-2/C21Thu Nov 01 1990 03:23150
    Hi Jeanne,
    
    Re: grit.  I don't give any of the large birds any grit, but they do
    get the iodine/mineral blocks.  Grit does not dissolve...it helps some
    birds to grind their food by staying in the gizzard (the place the
    food passes through, if I am remembering correctly).  There is no
    'nutrition' in grit.  Mineral blocks dissolve and the 'nutrients' are
    thus able to be absorbed into the bird's system.  Grit blocks 
    can sometimes aid in keeping the beak trim (small birds, anyway).
    Mineral blocks are relatively soft, so it is less likely they will
    help with the beak.  Just to confuse things, I know of others who
    have perfectly healthy birds of the same types I have and they give
    the birds grit and no mineral blocks! Side note: I have read/heard it 
    said that birds under stress sometimes consume too much grit and this
    causes more problems than it solves.  I give the canaries a small
    portion of grit a couple of times a month for a few days, then  remove
    it.  
    
    Q: Do Timneh's live as long as Congos?
    
    They are basically the same bird, with coloring that is a variation on
    a theme (description below), so to speak, so _yes_, they should have the 
    same life expectancy, for the same type of bird.  To be clearer:
    wild-caught, imported birds of any type are said to have a shorter life
    _expectancy_ than a domestically bred and raised bird. Since Congo
    greys are readily available as domestically bred and raised babies, and
    Timnehs are more often imports than domestics, if you compare a
    $200-500 imported Timneh with a $900-1200 domestically bred Congo grey,
    the Timneh would be said to have a shorter life _expectancy_.  If you
    compared an imported Congo with a domestically bred Timneh, the Congo
    in that case would have the shorter life _expectancy_.  If you compare
    two imports with each other or two domestically bred birds with each
    other, at least theoretically, both greys in each set would have 
    relatively speaking the same life _expectancy_. There are always 
    exceptions to be found, of course.  
    
    The notion here is that imports go through hell before you purchase
    them, generally speaking, and domestically bred birds have been to
    heaven, generally speaking. The domestically bred has always known
    'captivity' -- the wild-caught has to adjust and adapt, and adjust and
    adapt, and keep on adjusting and adapting as it is passed from tree to
    net to holding area to shipping crate to cargo area to a legal (I hope)
    quarantine station on one of the coasts to some retail depot, etc. etc.
    and to who knows how many places and pet stores before you see it
    locally.
    
    Possible Scenario A: The wild-caught's price may seduce many first time
    buyers into purchasing the bird (Congo or Timneh), who may not know how
    difficult it is to tame a wild adult parrot.  At least the bird is
    affordable and they _think_ they have the time to spend with the bird.
    Things may or may not work out.  Parrots are messy and noisy, often. 
    They have moods just like the rest of us, so may not want to be trained
    or played with when the owners have the time or feel like working with
    the bird, so frustration on both parts builds up.  Boom. Things 'don't
    work out'. The bird is put up for sale, and so the next hopeful brave
    soul purchases the bird with the best of intentions.  Maybe this person
    will be lucky because the chemistry is right (birds choose us, not the
    other way around). The trust factor is dominant here, or rather the
    non-trust factor. The domestically bred bird, especially a hand-fed
    bird, has been able to count on the humans around it for food, play,
    cuddling...nice, pleasurable things.  The wild-caught is often
    terrified of hands and gloves and anything that looks like a stick
    (sometimes of hats!). They bite.  Hand-feds can bite, but they seem to
    nibble and nip before they bite hard enough to draw blood.  The
    hand-fed babies I have had the pleasure of observing seem to want to
    please.  _You_ have to 'please' the wild-caught first, get its trust,
    then see if it will do something  you want it to, like step up on your
    arm.  Many imports turn into  wonderful pets, but it helps to have the
    patience of a saint and a willingness to go at the bird's pace, not
    your notion of how fast the bird should be 'getting tamer'.  It
    probably goes without saying that the younger you can get the imported
    bird, the better off you are.
    
    Possible Scenario B: Someone saves up or has enough money to buy the
    domestically bred bird the first time out.  Lots of expectations.
    All that money spent....  The bird is demanding, having been used to
    lots of attention during the months of hand-feeding.  The novelty
    is waring off now. The young bird is not played with as much as before.
    Perhaps about now the 'teething' stage starts (seems all parrots go
    through this near their first molt, from cockatiels and lovebirds on
    up in size).  The bird is seen as being 'difficult' to work with....
    what happened to 'my sweet baby'?  Nothing a little time and patience
    won't cure. Maybe because of the financial investment, pride, love
    of the bird, whatever, the owner sticks it out through the first molt
    and is persistent and consistent in the training and time spent with
    the bird.  Voila' - a wonderful pet, but maybe not as easily obtained
    as the owner had thought.  Young imports may be equally lucky to have
    an owner who sticks it out through the tough stage, but it seems more
    'second-hand' birds are imports than domestics.  I suppose there are
    a lot of reasons for this besides my conjectures above.
    
    Q: Do Timneh's talk and mimic as much as Congos?
    
    Yes, IMHO, based on my experience directly and comparing notes with others.
    Under the FWIW category, we had two males that are now with a breeder
    who had two hens.....with luck, they will have chicks and everyone will
    be happy! ;') Anyway, while we had them, one of them mimicked my voice
    and my husband's voice, all kinds of sounds from Nintendo games (picked
    up before he came to us), whistles, conure parrot noises he learned
    from other occupants of the aviary, etc. The one bird's talking ability
    far exceeded several Congo greys I had heard 'talk' in terms of clarity
    and variety of inflection, not to mention precise copying of pitch and
    tonal quality. The other male never said a thing.  When the two were
    kept in separate cages in the same room, the one who talked didn't
    (talk) anymore.  The people who have the two now say they have not
    heard either talk.  (I have also heard Congos with as much mimickry
    ability as our one Timneh.)  
    
    Q: What's the average price of a hand-fed Timneh?
    
    A hand-fed Timneh may go for almost as much as a Congo, since the
    work involved is the same.  Because the Congos are better known and
    many prefer their looks over the more subdued coloring of the Timnehs, 
    they may be able to command a slightly higher price.  I have seen both
    Timneh and Congo babies in the $1,000 range, give or take a hundred or
    two, depending on where you buy them.  Retail pet stores have the
    highest prices, but are the easiest place for most people to buy birds.
    Again IMHO, as Timnehs 'catch on' and more breeders take the time and
    trouble to try breeding these birds, they will gain in popularity,
    which means --usually-- that the price will go up.  I am basing the
    above on the market here in New England, so check your local papers 
    and call a bunch of pet stores that specialize in birds to see what
    the prices are in your own area if it's not New England.
    
    Physical Differences:
    
    You may already know this, but here goes anyway: The Timnehs are
    generally darker grey in color than the more popular and therefore more
    expensive Congo grey.  They have a maroon tail with dark brown/black
    edges, in contrast to the lighter grey overall color and light red
    tail of the Congo.  Some people call the Timnehs 'Ghana' greys. 
    Forshaw's "Parrots of the World" lists three subspecies for Psittacus
    Erithacus - P. Erithacus Erithacus (often called the 'Congo' African
    Grey), P. Erithacus Princeps (similar to P. Erithacus Erithacus, but
    generally, the  plumage is darker than the so-called 'Congo' or P.
    Erithacus Erithacus), and P. Erithacus Timneh, described above at
    the beginning of this paragraph.
    
    Good luck in your search!  Finding the right bird for you, import or
    domestic, is worth the time and waiting.   If you are in the MA/NH/CT
    area, the WANTADvertiser weekly publication has a large section of
    birds for sale (it is sold at drugstores, supermarkets, and some
    bookstores--you can't subscribe; I tried!)
    
    Other noters: If you made it this far, even though I wrote a lot, that
    doesn't mean it is all correct or the only information that Jeanne
    needs.  I hope others will reply too!  Disagreements welcome.....
    that's half the fun of Notes!!
    
    Linda
443.2we had two tooCHET::MACDONALDMaryAnne MacDonaldThu Nov 01 1990 13:1922
    
    re:.1 Linda you did a great job!
    We had 2 Timnehs at one time, both were wild caught, and came from the
    same store.  Evan, our first purchase was sick from day 1.  He never
    was very friendly but having to give him medication on a regular basis
    gave us the chance to least get him used to being handled.  He did
    learn how to say his name.  Jupiter, on the other hand, was very 
    different.  He was purchased as a companion for Evan, so he was
    never really happy with us as WE chose HIM.  He was tamer when we
    got him thanks to the patience of the previous owner and supposedly
    could talk though he never did.  Both birds were eventually sold to
    separate homes.  From what I hear, 4 years later, Evan still is sickly,
    and says only his name.  Jupiter is a fiesty, out-going bird who can
    drive you crazy with his extended vocabulary.  Both owners love the
    birds.  No moral here...just some input.  Timnehs are not as popular
    as congos yet but I am seeing more ads for them in the bird magazines,
    both imports and domestic.  Prices don't seem to be as high as Congos
    but then most of the breeders are not in the New England area.
    Regarding Evan's health problems I was told that Greys are very likely
    to have tapeworm (imports that is).  Anyway, hope this helps.
    
    MaryAnne