Conference 7.286::pet_birds

	Generally baby birds seem to care less about how pretty they look
	then adults.  As you bird gets more mature, if his cage is large 
	enough he will not trash the new feathers coming in.

	Depends on the bird, also, the more playful the bird the more likely
	they are to trash the looks of the feathers.  I would look to the
	send or third full molt before everything looked "great".

	Big birds are constantly loosing those little grey down feathers.
	I think small gray feathers in coffee/cereal etc. have done more to
	strain a relationship then screaming...

	Most people who seem to know what they are talking about prefer the
	vitamins in the water, rather than on the fruit.  Was it the Vet who
	suggested the fruit?  I guess I would re-think that, if it was not the
	Vet, who suggested it.

	-dick	

    Hi Cheryl;
    Congrat's on your new baby.
    
    I have a Grand E. born here in Penrose Colorado back on Feb 2nd. His
    name is Kiwi. I also have a house full of "little gray feathers" and in
    checking with the breader and the vet, thats about normal. Be thankfull
    you dont have a cockatoo, my house used to be covered with a fine white
    dust and white down puffs the size of a golf ball where a common sight
    floating around just about anywhere. (You should have seen the furnace
    filter!!!)
    
    You know, Kiwi was reared on Lakes hand feeding formula and I cant get
    him to eat the pellets to save my hide. He screems and cries and wont
    eat them. I tryed Squoze's (sp?) and he doesnt much care for them
    eather. He eats a custom seed mix and all the fruits and veggies just
    fine though?
    
    As to feather condition, I here the 'baby feathers' are in fact just
    not as tough as the feathers after the first molt, and Kiwi is proof of
    that. He looks just a little shabby, but I've seen my breeders pet grand
    at about 18 months and he looks much much better. Kiwi has even worn
    the outside edge of his wings right to the feather shafts from
    'exercising' in his cage, and this is a full size Prevue cage about 4
    feet across. I guess no matter how big the cage their still gonna find
    a way to beet their wings against the sides.
    
    Oh well. Good luck with the new 'kid' and keep us informed!!
    
    				Bob Page

    Hi dick and Bob,
    
    Thanks for the info... RE .1,  I've been reading soo much lately, I'm
    not sure where I read that it was not a good idea to use vitamins in
    the water because water soluble vitamins break down after 1/2 hour and
    do nothing but grow bacteria after that... The breeder also said the
    same thing.  How about it everybody?  I'd love to just add it to the
    water... I've tried fruit juice without luck...
    
    Re .2:
    Hey, if it was only little grey feathers!!!  Sydney seems to "sling"
    his fruit all over... My roll top desk will take some cleaning... the
    fruit always seems to land IN the cracks of the roll top... but what
    the heck... he's my baby!  
    
    What do you think of the Prevue cage?... Are you pleased?  Any
    drawbacks?  I've been waiting on the same one you have for the past 
    4 weeks!  I ordered manzania wood perches that will be in this week, 
    so now I'm REALLY getting anxious...  I couldn't make up my mind  
    between the Prevue and Animal Environments and the like.
    
    Thanks again for the info
    
    Cheryl    

    I've tried vitamins in the water and they make the water yucky very
    fast.  Two vets have said no to vitamins in water.  But I've seen
    breeders and bird-keepers who do this with no problem.  I soak my
    bird dishes in clorox regularly, so it isn't as though the dishes
    are harboring anything...it does seem to be that the vitamins, at
    least the Nekton S and Bio that I am using, can get awful in just
    12 hours (from morning fresh water to evening water check).  Sometimes
    the birds won't touch soft foods if I put the vitamins on the top, but
    now I am mixing in the vitamins to spread them more evenly and make
    them less visible, which seems to be working.  Same caution about the
    soft foods though...they seem to turn quicker with the vitamins
    sprinkled on them.  Don't let soft foods sit over night or you
    may be asking for trouble in the bacteria and fruitfly department.
    
    Linda

	My Vet, Brian Holub of Countryside , in Chelmsford likes the
	Levebre (sp?) vitamins.  He says that they are good for almost
	12 hours, so that ain't too bad.  The Macaw really doesn't seem
	to care a whit about what the water looks like...especially if I
	put in an ice cube or two that he can play with. 

	I have never been able to get Avalon to even look twice at a
	Pellet, and I have tried almost all of them.  However, Av eats
	a lot of sweet potatoes, and corn, and chicken and he really likes
	V-8.

	Now on cages....I used to think that nothing was as good as an
	AE cage.  After having one for two years, I am still convinced 
	that they make the best cages, but maybe not that far out in
	front.  I have had to make several FCOs, some in consultation with
	AE, and some on my own.  Their "bird proof" lock, Avalon destroyed
	in about an hour.  Also, the powder paint is beginning to wear in
	places...

	But, all that said, it is still an excellent cage, and I have not
	seen better.  Lately, I have seen some stainless steel cages that
	look interesting, and will check them out when Avalon finally
	trashes this cage beyond rescue.

	I think that the bottom line, is that NOTHING is MACAW proof! Period!

	-d

    RE vitamins.  I feed Topper to my Amazon and put the vitamins on his
    veggies. The vitamins don't affect how much veggies he eats(he only
    eats them sporatically), but I know he get enough vitamins from his
    topper. Could I be giving him too much vitamins ?
    
    re: Prevue hendryx cage.  UCF in Fitchburg has the 24" x 24" in stock
    for $480.
    
    Doug

    My vet also said no vitamins in the water.....said they break down
    very quickly (within an hour) and start building bacteria.
    
    Previous reply mentioned fruit flies....boy am I having a BIG problem
    with them.  I've been taking fresh food out in the evening, cleaning
    cage bottoms, and even took cages outside and scrubbed them all
    down with a brush to remove any residue.  None of this helped!!
    The fruit flys are still swarming....driving my birds  and me crazy!
    
    Obviously I can't spray them....are there any remedies?????
    
    Diane
    

    Hi Cheryl;
    
    Regards the cage. I've had no problems at all. My Cockatoo did fine in
    it for years and Kiwi seems to love it now. He runs up and down the
    sides and does a good job of staying on the top perch when the top is
    opened. This helps with a nasty bit of housekeeping that can need to be
    done if you let them just climb around the closed top of the cage! You
    might also consider using crushed corn cob in the bottom. It works for
    me. I sift it with a 'religious spoon' every day or two and replace the
    whole batch every week to 10 days. I stopped using newspaper when
    Barney discovered he could reach down thru the grate and grab the
    paper! What a mess that was!!
    
    Vitamins! Everybody has an opinion, and I'll give you mine. Truth be
    known, I dont think a healthy bird with a good varied diet needs
    supplimental vitamins. Now under stressfull conditions or if any health
    problems, ok. But Kiwi eats everything we eat (within reason) as well
    as a solid seed and veggie diet of his own and seems to be doing fine.
    The same was the case with my "Too" Barney. 
    
    When I was giving powdered vitamins I was lightly misting the seed dish
    and sprinkling the vitimans right on the seed. This needs to be trashed
    and cleaned every day as you would expect, But Barney never even
    noticed them. except for a light dusting on his beak that he would wipe
    off on what ever was available, his pearch, my shoulder, or what ever.
    
    I'm sure you'll here differing opinions from other noters on the
    vitamins issue. So as you've been doing, read everything,listen to
    everyone and adopt what works for you best. Remember, there are no 
    stupid questions, except the one's you dont ask. Thats how we all
    learned.
    
    Wouldn't it be nice if you could go to the community collage for
    "Eclictus ownership 101"!!
    

    
    Oy, fruitflies!  I'll be truly grateful to anyone that has a solution
    to this!  Sweetpea, my beakless whitefront Amazon (beak is now maybe
    1/2 grown back) still needs to eat soft food.  I was cooking a
    rice/grain/babyfood/wheatgerm/veggie/etc mix for him and freezing it in
    daily serving size portions, but now that it is summer this attracks
    fruitflies like crazy and goes bad in a heartbeat.  I've now started
    feeding him lightly moistened Topper's Squoz parrot crumbles, which
    lessens the problem but doesn't eliminate it.
    
    Btw, I use powdered vitamins, typically SuperPreen or Necton, sprinkled
    on seed and veggies.  Vitamins in water at my house are a wonderful
    excuse for my birds (at least some of them!) to immediately decide that
    the water is "suspicious" and dump it on the floor.
    
    						/Rita
    

    I use Nekton-S sprinkled on the seeds for my Macaw and Congo Grey, and
    Nekton-BIO sprinkled in the water. I use the Bio due to molting, and as
    added protection against feather plucking. I haven't had any problems
    with bacteria, etc. in the water dish, but I do replace the water
    dishes every day, and run them through the dishwasher.
    
    One solution to fruit flys is not to feed the fruit/veggies during the
    day. The routine for my birds is as follows: I take them out of their
    cages when I come home from work in the evening, and put each of them
    on their stands. I then fill their cups with fresh fruit and veggies,
    as well as pizza, monkey chow, etc. They eat that, and then when we eat
    supper, they get all the table scraps they want as well. Then, when
    they go to bed for the night, I fill and change their seed and water
    bowls. They always get a fresh peanut in the shell on top of their food
    as an extra treat. In the morning, I don't give them any more seeds,
    however, I do give them a hunk of peanut butter and toast, as well as a
    peanut when I first get up. That way, by the time I get home from work,
    they have nearly finished the previous night's seed supply, and are
    anxiously and hungrily awaiting their fruits and veggies. It's easy to
    clean up the stands, and no food is left standing in their cages to
    rot, etc.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Nancy
    

    Hi ,
    
    I have a different moulting problem. My Blue Front Amazon(Joker) has
    not moulted in 2 years. I know that length of lighting in spring is
    supposed to trigger this, but he ends up getting about 14 hours of
    light(Vita lights) year round. If I shorten this he will get no active
    time with me,as I have time to spend with him at breakfast(6 A.M.) and
    at night 8-10 P.M.. I feel that even with the late hours he gets enough
    sleep as he naps during the day. 
    
    He does moult some of his smaller feathers and his primaries, But his
    Tail is getting Very Ratty and there are never any large feathers in
    his cage, and never any large volume of little feathers. His primaries
    also grow strange, with some having barbules on only one side of the
    shaft. I have started giving him areobic sessions every morning now, as
    I read an article in Birdtalk suggesting this for feather problems.
    
    Suggestions/comments ? (especially you Chet, you were looking for
    subjects) %-)
    
    Doug