Conference 7.286::pet_birds

    Hi Racheal,
    
    Probably the best way to catch Squeaky would be to turn all the
    lights off at night and let him calm down. Then you can approach
    the cage in minimal light or with a small flashlight.
    
    In time he will probably calm down some, as I have recently had
    a similiar experience.  I was given a pet budgie from a neice that
    for a year or more had left him alone in a room and just given him
    food and water. I clipped his wings and tried to work with him
    regulary, but time didn't permit me to keep it up. Anyway it has
    now been 4-5 months and he is by no means trained, but when he is
    out of the cage I can pick him up without being bitten. The first
    couple of months he wouldn't even come out of his cage on his own.
    I have 5 budgies in a 3'X2'X2.5' cage that have there freedom of
    a room about 4 times a week, and of course Buddy is by himself.
    
    Doug

    Thanks for the suggestion Doug I will give that a try.  I can just see
    Kevin and I walking around in the dark groping for that silly bird!
    
    Last night while I was upstairs I had the cage door open and Boo Boo
    and Thelma came right out to have a look around.  They didn't wander
    far from their cage but were pretty comfortable being in the same room
    with me even though I was not sitting still.  When I noticed that
    Squeaky would come to the opening craning his neck to get a look at the
    other two I decided to try placing a honey stick just outside of the
    cage because Squeaky loves treats and it worked!  The set back was when
    Squeaky realized he was out of the cage he started flying into walls,
    furniture, or running, screaming and hiding under things.  My son ran
    up the stairs and yelled 'Mom what are you doing to the birds!?'  which
    didn't help matters.  After a minute of watching the other two BooBoo and
    Thelma went right on eating the honey stick not paying any mind.  I
    wasn't chasing Squeaky, no one was chasing Squeaky but I guess he
    figured the cat he can't forget was chasing him, poor guy.  It's a good
    thing his wings are clipped or he would have really hurt himself.
    
    After I'd gotten everyone back into their cage and was cleaning up the mess
    from the honey stick I thought 'What a dummy you should have cleaned
    the cage while Squeaky was hiding under the night stand!'
    
    Nest time.......

    In the FWIW (for whatever it is worth) category, I found that sitting
    quietly near the cage, reading a book, for even a half hour on a regular 
    basis helped calm down a wild-caught Amazon in about three weeks.  
    I sat across the room at first, speaking to bird occasionally during the
    'reading time' so he could get used to my voice.  I moved the chair
    closer and closer to the cage as the days passed, and always moved
    in (relatively speaking) slow motion first.  Whenever the Amazon would
    make a noise or move around on the perch or toward the front of the
    cage, I gave him verbal praise.  This all helped a lot, but takes a
    lot of patience.  The good news is that he is now stick-trained, takes
    treats from my hand, and is very vocal (not screaming, not talking, but
    what the heck).....all translates to he is not sitting frozen on the
    perch or going crazy with frantic circling and climbing around his
    cage in circles.  
    
    I later tried this approach with a breeding pair of budgies.  The hen 
    would thrash around the cage a lot.  This was just before she started 
    laying eggs.  I'll skip the middle part (process described above), but 
    the story has a happy ending.  She calmed down enough for me to be able 
    to change the food and water dishes, check the nest box and chicks, 
    and clean the cage, all with her sitting inches away and not going nuts 
    (probably helped that the male was a real sweetheart and tame).
    
    Move slowly and don't rush things.  It is all worth the effort.
    
    Let us know how it goes!
    
    Linda
    

    
    	I agree with .3 . I would suggest that you move the other two birds
    to another cage which you can keep next to the first one. If Squeaky
    can see the other birds he will not be as easy to work with.
    
    	I raise Lovebirds and when I hand tame them I take them up to my
    bathroom with a pillow and a book, (sometimes are good one, sometimes
    not). I place the cage within arms reach of me and place the bird on
    top of it. I read my book and talk to the bird from time to time. I do
    this for 3-5 days. If you have trouble getting the bird out of the
    cage, you can pick up a fish net at your local pet shop. The netting is
    soft and will make it easier to catch the bird then trying to catch her
    with your hands. You want to keep the frantic flying around the cage to
    a minimum as it only stresses out the bird and hinders the training.
    
    	After the five days I use the net to catch the bird and take only
    the bird up to the bathroom. Once I close the door I let the bird free.
    Make certain that there is nothing the bird can get under or behind as
    they will find those places quicker then you think. Watch the mirrors
    also. The bird will tend to fly into them thinking they are a way out.
    I usually don't cover them, but let the bird fly into them. They are 
    never going fast enough to hurt themselves and I hold my hand about
    6 inches below them and catch them when they slide down the front of 
    the mirror. Of course the bird will fly off again as soon as she 
    realizes that she is on your hand. If she doesn't you may be lucky.
    
    	After a few flights around the room and into the mirror again,
    (hopefully you are catching them each time), the bird will usually
    settle down somewhere. Remember to continually talk to the bird and
    don't let her get too excited. With Squeaky you will have to be extra
    carefull at this stage. Once she finds a good spot to settle down on,
    pick up your book and leave her be, but continue to talk to her from
    time to time. Try this for 3-5 days at 1 hour at a time. 
    
    	If she looks like she is settling down well, then you can start
    working to get her finger tamed. Talk to her as you offer her your
    finger. She may take off and fly to another spot, but once she lands
    offer her your finger again. Do this for 5-10 minuites and then let 
    her calm down for 5-10 minuites before you start up again. You can
    tell how calm she is by watching her breathing. When you offer the 
    finger place it about the middle of her breast so that she has to 
    step up to get on your finger but not too high. If she refuses to 
    step up or lightly flutters from side to side, gently push back 
    against her breast. This tends to unbalance the bird slightly forcing
    them to regain their balance by climbing up on the finger.
    
    	You can adjust the time frame for each phase depending on how well
    Squeaky is responding. The main thing is to go slow and have much much
    patience. I have used this method to tame all of the birds I have and
    so far it has worked real well. (Know anyone who wants some hand tamed
    Lovebirds?). You can also add a preliminary stage where you just place
    the cage near you while you read for the first 3-5 days. In Squeaky's
    case this might not be a bad idea. It will help ease her into the 
    training without stressing her too much.
    	
    	Three of my birds were abused birds and although it took longer for
    them, they all came around, and now they are SPOILED ROTTEN!, but
    lovable. It is best if you can put in the training time every day. If
    you can't it will slow things down some but as long as the gaps between
    are not too long it will be OK. Once you get Squeaky to the finger tame
    stage then you can experiment with putting her back in with the other
    two. 
    
    	Good Luck with Squeaky and keep us informed. 
    
    
    						Have A Nice One,
    						     Mark
    
    	

    I combined suggestions from both .1 Doug and .3 Linda last night and it
    went fairly well.  Thanks to both of you.
    
    Last night I asked my son, Kevin, to remain downstairs with the T.V.
    turned down low and I went upstairs and turned out all the lights
    except for a small lamp.  The cage is located next to my
    reading/sewing/everything chair so I quietly did some paperwork, etc,
    for about 30 minutes and then I removed the top of the cage and sat
    back down to read a book.  After a few minutes Boo Boo and Thelma went
    over the wall.  After another 10 - 15 minutes Squeaky followed and
    though I watched I did not make a move to get up for another few
    minutes.  Once I thought it was safe I quickly got up and took the cage
    leaving the stand and headed for the bathroom where I had everything
    ready.  
    
    I did hear a little squawking on the other side of the door but since I
    had left the stand I knew that they would go there and be alright. 
    Maybe Squeaky didn't go berzerk because I wasn't in the room and his
    friends were?  It was quite a job, cleaning the cage and then cleaning
    the mess I made cleaning the cage, but now that it is done it should be
    easier to keep it up.  Now that they are better adjusted and have
    ceased flinging their feces on the wall they may find a permanent home
    with us.  :-)
    
    Rachel  

    .4 MARK:
    
    I agree with your suggestion about separating them and had been looking
    into buying a used cage for now.  New cages cost $50.00 :-O
    
    Spending time with the birds for us has been before bedtime because
    Kevin and I always spend time together then and we do it in that room. 
    The birds, especially Squeaky, did not like that at first and would get
    really loud but recently have become more comfortable with the
    arrangement.  In their previous home they were left pretty much to
    themselves in a room with little or no traffic.  
    
    As a single parent I don't have a lot of time to give to these little
    boys so it will take longer for them to get really friendly.  For now I
    just want them to be healthy and happy.  I've added vitamins to their
    drinking water and have improved their diet so they are looking better
    and I guess the rest will come with time.
    
    I DO HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION (for now).  BooBoo is the largest and
    healthiest bird of the three and lately he has been preening (?)
    Squeaky an awful lot, too much.  Is he preening or is he being mean?  I
    came home yesterday and Squeakys' head looked wet.  My first reaction
    was 'What is going on with you now!' but later noticed Boo Boo was the
    culprit.  Squeaky has gone through a lot since he has been with us.  He
    had diarhea, slept on two feet all fluffed up.  I originally got the
    vitamins for him because I knew he was under a lot of stress.  The
    improved diet has improved all their appearances.  Squeaky got over
    diahrea and now sleeps on one foot and his feathers are smooth.
    
    Do you think Boo Boo's improved health has made him more aggressive or
    sexually frustrated?  Boo Boo was doing a little dance around Squeaky
    when I peaked out of the bathroom (while cleaning the cage) and he kept
    wanting to come up behind Squeaky.  I went back in the bathroom, one
    thing at a time.  That's when I decided to get another cage.  I ignored
    them all last night because I don't have another cage so that I can
    separate them and Boo Boo won't leave Squeaky alone.  I did think about
    buying some of the spray that helps prevent birds from over plucking
    their feathers to make Squeaky TASTE bad.  
    
    Anybody got any suggestions?

    Hi,
          
    I have a couple of cages that I could be willing to part with. Off-hand
    I can think of 2,  a canary cage for $6 or little bit
    larger parakeet cage for $20.  I also have breeder cage with nest
    box I would let go for $15.  
                       
    I live in Lunenburg, if you are interested give me a call.
    508-582-7322
    
    Doug

    Doug,
    
    A great offer, but *sigh*, your Area Code 508 is so far away from mine
    of 915.  Thanks for the offer.
    
    Well it's t.g.i.f. and when asked what my weekend plans are I am
    tempted to tell the truth and say 'The usual, shopping, errands,
    cleaning, some quality time in the bathroom with a bird.'
    
    (Thelma, not Squeaky.  I think Thelma just may be a girl she's the 
    friendliest and smartest. ;-)  )
    
    bye

    Do you know how to tell the difference between a male and female
    parakeet?  I know that when I had 3 of them (at one time), the male's
    cere (part over the beak) is blue in color and the female is the
    same color as the beak.  Maybe this will help you figure out who's
    who in your cages and why Squeaky might be jumping the other bird.
    
    Donna

    Donna,
    
    Yes, the color of the cere over the beak is what made me think they
    were all males.  However, Thelmas' cere is no longer the same shade as
    when they first came to live with us.  The color is more like a pale
    brown.  Thelma is moulting and I don't know if this would effect the
    color of the cere or not.  When I first noticed the color change I 
    inspected her beak and it looked healthy and still does.  The beak is
    smooth and shiny, no crusty look.  Except for the change in color the
    cere looks fine.
    
    Rachel 

    I didn't realize that when they are older and molting, their ceres
    change colors... (learn something new every day).
    
    Well, I can tell you that I once had 2 cockatiels (one which I THOUGHT
    was a female and the other a male).  I thought the Lutino was a female
    because the male would preen her and jump her and mount her (which I
    thought they were really mating but no eggs ever came but I didn't put
    a box in the cage either because I didn't want to deal with the
    babies). To make a long story short, when I traded the 2 cockatiels
    (with the understanding that the breeder could mate them), he said that
    they were both males.  One was playing the submissive role.
    
    I guess one never really knows what they have unless surgically
    sexed...
    
    Donna :-) 

    A white with hints of blue (young bird) to light tan (often smooth in 
    texture) to darker brown (can be wrinkled up and look awful-means 
    the hen is in breeding condition).....Female Budgie.  Violet-pink 
    (young bird) to all light blue to very dark blue....Male Budgie.
    (Based on books on the subject and my own experiences, after making
    some mistakes before reading the books!!).  Thelma sounds like a hen.
    I used to confuse the young birds because the female's cere would be
    white with a blue hint around the edges, so I mistakenly assumed that
    it would gradually turn blue...WRONG....turned light tan, then darker
    as the females got older.  The extremely young birds (a few weeks in
    age) are harder to tell apart.  If a budgie is not in breeding 
    condition, the coloring (either tan-brown/female or blue/male) is
    much paler.  Healthier, more in condition birds have the easily
    distinguishable colors. 
    
    Linda

    
    The "dance" that Boo Boo does with Squeaky sounds alot like the
    "dance" that my peachfaced lovebirds do before they try to have
    bird-sex.  It sounds like you may have a budding romance.
    It is *springtime* ya know.
    
    nmp 

    Yes, it is definately a budding romance.  Now that Squeaky is becoming
    better acquainted with his surroundings and his health has improved he
    is not always in the mood to play the submissive role.  Boo Boo is more
    often the attentive/determined but rebuffed suitor come calling these
    days.  He is at times tolerated and allowed to sit closeby.  They were
    the topic of an interesting conversation between my son and I.
    
    While Squeaky is far from being 'tame' he has certainly come a long way
    from the scared little bird he was when we first got them.  Cleaning
    the cage is still a trial because that still means leaving the cage. 
    The best method I have come up with so far is to take the cage off of
    the stand and set it on the floor with the door open and the cage lid
    off.  When Boo Boo and Thelma go over the wall Squeaky will follow
    sooner or later and then I can do my thing.  Getting them back into the
    cage is another matter altogether because as soon as they see me coming
    with the cage lid they decide they want to go back out and it turns
    into a zoo.
    
    I have been looking for a better seed for them but have had limited
    success.  At this time they will not eat the vegetables or fruit I have
    offered and seed is their primary food.  I live in West Texas and the
    pet stores in this area do not carry a wide variety of bird seed.  The
    places I have contacted deal primarily in bulk orders and it is too
    much for me to consider buying or storing.  There are very few breeders
    in this area but I am going to make some phone calls because I'm sure
    they would be supplying their own customers with seed.
    
    Bye,
    Rachel, BooBoo, Squeaky, & Thelma
    

   And then there was PeeWee...

   PeeWee is a imported female OrangeWing who was purchased by the people before
me as a breeder (they were sure she was a "he".) To say that PeeWee went
ballistic when you tried to handle her is an understatement. I'm making great
progress, but it's been months and the progress is slow. Every so often I've
had to take a break to let my wounds heal.

   Now, once PeeWee hits the floor, she'll step right up on my finger, no
problem, no more bloody fingers. I can carry her all the way back to her cage,
or a perch or anywhere else I want her to go. My challenge now is to get her to
step onto my hand from a perch AND ultimately from a perch in her cage. 

   When I go to take her out of the cage she's docile enough once she's been
captured, but the chase is something else.  We go round and round and round
with her screaming the whole time until either I can grab her from behind OR
she hits the floor of the cage (at which time I have to fast enough to get her
out the door before she jumps off the hand and we start over again.) 

   I am assuming part of this is a matter of territory. The cage is her domain
and I'm not welcome, whereas when she's on the floor, she's in my territory and
she's more submissive.  Mostly she afraid. She is not aggressive but tries to 
hide behind anything she can find. Again, once all she has to cling to is me,
she settles down for the most part, waiting for the opportunity to leap to
the perch or the cage (any cage.)

   Any hints on where to go from here?  At the moment she needs her wings 
clipped as she can now get a little loft instead of the preferred nose dive to 
the floor. Left to my own devices I'll just keep doing what I've been doing,
trying to handle her at least twice a day, taking her back and forth from her
cage to a treestand or a perch.  Sometimes I have her cagemate (Jordie is
another female Orange Wing) on my shoulder while I'm doing this, sometimes I've
taken Jordie away first, and sometimes Jordie just tries to stay out of the way
while the chase is in progress. It doesn't seem to make much difference.

Any help would be appreciated. (I don't have anyplace that isn't filled with
things for this bird to hind behind or grab onto.)

thanks,

Al

Update:
<         <<< Note 349.15 by TAMDNO::WHITMAN "I'm the NRA and I vote" >>>
<   And then there was PeeWee...

    PeeWee will now step onto my hand, almost jumps on sometimes, screaming the
whole time until she's rigthed herself. She now goes with me to get the mail
each day (about 100yds each way).  Today she rode back from the mailbox on my 
shoulder for the 2nd time. No problems.  She's made it.  Good thing 'cause my
wife bought a male Orangewing last night that's about where PeeWee was when we
got her 5 months ago.  And the saga continues. My thumb's beginning to hurt
already in anticipation of the bloodletting to come. 

Al