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Conference 7.286::pet_birds

Title:Captive Breeding for Conservation--and FUN!
Notice:INTROS 6.X / FOR SALE 13.X / Buying a Bird 900.*
Moderator:VIDEO::PULSIFER
Created:Mon Oct 10 1988
Last Modified:Tue Jun 03 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:942
Total number of notes:6016

149.0. "1st Time Buyer Looking for Amazon Info" by GIAMEM::KALINOSKY (criminy) Fri Mar 24 1989 09:16

Hi,

I'm new to Pet_Birds, and have really enjoyed reading and learning from 
this conference.  My wife and I are close to buying our first parrot, and I 
wonder if some of the readers of this conference could give me some advice 
and input.  We do not presently have any birds, although I have had a 
conure and some budgies in the past.

  After reading some books and talking with some breeders and bird 
fanciers, we seem to feel that a blue-fronted amazon is the bird for us.
    
    But I still have some questions, and I thought that some of you
    could perhaps provide me some input based on your own knowledge
    and experience.

1.  Some literature I've seen states that the blue-fronts tend to be timid. 
Anyone out there with some real experience with these birds?  (Do they tend 
to be "one-person" birds, or is there such a thing?)

2.  What would you expect to pay for hand-fed blue-front babies?  Any 
Mass/NH breeders you would recommend?

3.  My concern is that, because neither of us are home during the day, the 
bird would get attention only in the eveneings and the morning.  Can this 
be a problem?

4.  What's a good cage size for a blue-front?  Is a very large cage better?

5.  What to look for in a bird when viewing them at a breeder's place?

6.  Finally, if you were looking for your first parrot (which will probably 
be the lone bird for some time), would the blue-front be one of your 
choices?  Or, what other birds would be considered?  (Keeping in mind that 
we want a bird with a combination of talking ability, beauty, personality, 
and friendship).

Thanks in advance for any input you can provide!

Ian Kalinosky
                   
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149.1Anything, if its right for you!EUREKA::WHITEthe PARROT_TROOPERFri Mar 24 1989 16:4264
    Let me give this a try.........
    
    A Blue Fronted Amazon WOULD indeed make a truly wonderful first
    time avian pet. 
         
    The answers to the questions...
    
    1. ALL birds tend to be timid at first unless they are hand fed.
       By the way, hand taming DOSENT mean a tamed pet from the store,
       It is hand tame to the hand tamer. It will make personal taming
       a little easier, but everyone must hve the bird get used to them
    individually.
    
       Most birds are one person birds ONLY if they are brought up that
    way. If your new potential pet is allowed to interface on a regular
    basis with other humans they tend to be outgoing to all after that.
    
    
    2. I know of a beautiful baby bluefront at the AQUATARA tropical
    petstore in Nashua with a pricetag of 800 on it.  Im not sure of
    the price being in line with other retailers of breeders for that
    matter. I paid 900 for my yellow winged bluefront five years ago,
    but it was supposedly a 'show' bird. And quite strikingly beautiful.
    
    3. This should prove to be not a problem as they are pretty secure
    by themselves if enough things are provided to occupy their attention
    till you return.   However, you should plan on two to three hours
    of solid interfacing with the bird daily if you ever wish to get
    a true loving/tame pet.
    
    4. I would suggest a cage that hase at the minimum of a two foot
    cube. The larger, the better. Wait till you price these babies!!!
    I have a catalogue from Corners limited if you wish to build your
    own for a substantially lower price.
    
    5. Look for general feather condition and health first. Clean nostrils,
       droppings in the cage should be green/white and not liquidy.
       Next go for somethjing that dosent shy away from you when you
    approach te cage. If eye contact can be established, thats great!
    
    6. By all means a blue front makes an excellent pet, however, the
    rest of the amazon species will do just as well, There ARE better
    talkers to choose from including the Yellow head, yellow nape, Congo
    greys etc etc. but make sure you make the right decision THE FIRST
    TIME. This means spending lots of time wandering pet stores and
    breeders looking and observing ALL species for a great amount of
    time before making your decision. My personal philosophy is to buy
    what you WANT, not what you can AFFORD. Shen you make up your mind
    as to which bird is the 'one for you', if the price is prohibitive,
    then wait and save.  Again, this is only MY methodology, dont work
    for everyone.
    
    Good Luck, and if you ever want to see the 'perfect' blue fronted,
    give Rob Chesler at FLUME::Rob a call. I'm sitting for it while
    he is in Pnenix this week. WHAT A PEACH!!!!!!! THE CUTEST Bluefront
    I've ever had the pleasure of working with.
      
    
    Again, good luck. Let us know what happens.
    
    chet
    
    P.S. the bluefront at aquatara looks/acts just like robs little
    guy.
149.2GIAMEM::KALINOSKYcriminyThu Mar 30 1989 11:1230
Chet,  thanks for the reply.  I think that you're right - I need to visit 
alot of shops and see alot of birds.  Being an impulse buyer, I really need 
to use restraint because I've alreay seen a number of great birds!

Yesterday I stopped by a local pet shop on my way home, and was shocked to 
see a young african grey for $299.  (The sign said, "easy to tame"!).  As 
you might imagine, the bird was very wild.  I was tempted to buy it just to 
get it out of this awful place, but is it possible to really tame a bird if 
it is very wild, or has been traumatized.  Ditto for a Red Lored they had 
for $489.

Originally, I wanted a Macaw, but heard from a few sources that for a first 
bird this might be "too much".  Is a Macaw really that much more work than 
an Amazon? (Probably depends on the bird, I suppose).

Also, I picked up some issues of Bird Talk, and have been reading all the 
advertisements from breeders who will ship birds to you.  Is this a wise 
thing to look into, buying a bird "blind"?

This past weekend I was in a store that had a great yellow-nape and a nice 
Blue-crowned amazon.  They told me that the nape was 2 years old, the blue 
crown about 1.  Is this normal to see tame birds for sale that are that 
old?  I was told that they had not been in anyones home yet.  Is younger 
better, and if so, what's a good guideline for the age a bird should be 
when you buy it?

Sorry for all the questions!

Ian
                                                                
149.3Patience GIAENG::PULSIFERDoug Pulsifer 296-3332Thu Mar 30 1989 12:5520
    I have budgies and don't have large birds yet, but strongly reccomend
    that you at least try to find a breeder instead of a Pet store.
    I have budgies from both and the one that was hand fed at the breeder
    is 100 times more enjoyable.
    
    It sounds like you intend to have one Bird only and not be a
    collector,so you really should follow Chets advice and shop arround
    until you are sure. I don't know of breeders other than my neighbor
    bought her Macaw from a breeder out near Quabbin resevoir, I will
    ask her for the name and address. I think if you search through
    the notes you may find several breeders listed.
                                           
    I like to visit Pet stores to look, and saw a Blue Front at 
    The Fish Bowl in Milford N.H. recently. If your stomach can take
    it you may want to visit the Doctor Pet in Leominster as they have
    amazons out where you can handle them, but leave your impulsiveness
    and Visa at home.
    
    Doug
149.4Wingsong Aviary 603/883-4745SSGBPM::HUTCHINSFeathered Obsesions AviaryThu Mar 30 1989 16:4218
    Hi!!!  Look at me, I'm back and they gave me my *own* account! 8-)
    
    Well Ian, since yu are so sincerely looking for a bird, I'd highly
    recommend Wingsong Aviary in Merrimack NH  603/883-4745.  They may
    be a little more expensive but they have exceptional stock!  All
    birds are hand raised... from the eggs up!  It has been with the
    help from Paul and Brian, owners of Wingsong, that have enabled
    me to be where I am today in Aviculture!
    
    The prices you quoted are imported bird prices... handfeds are going
    to be more like $800 - $1,000.  And from my experience, wild grays
    are about the hardest to train, but once they are won over, they
    are wonderful!  There are loads of folks here with grays!  And,
    if you get a gray, get a Congo, not the Timnah.
    
    Happy hunting!!!
    
    Jean
149.5get as young a bird as possible....MPGS::TAIGoneTotallyBirdserk!! ^0^Thu Mar 30 1989 18:3230
    RE: .2
    
    Hi Ian,
    
    I just recently bought a yellow nape (in January), and agree whole-
    heartily about getting as young a bird as possible!!!
    
    We bought an older bird through a dealer in NH, and it was a mistake
    for us.  I got too anxious, I couldn't wait an extra 6 weeks for a baby.
    We ended up with a BEAUTIFUL older nape, age unknown, but I'm guessing
    between 3-4 years because it's sexually mature and developing definite
    eye-rings.  Anyway, Piedy was suppose to be my pet but she (we think
    it's a she) bonded to my fiance', and absolutely hates me.  You may
    have read about my experiences in previous notes.  She has now decided 
    to fly and attack me.  But last night, for some reason got on my arm
    when I was touching her feet so maybe we're making some headway.
    
    We plan on getting another nape next year, and THIS time we will go
    about it in the right manner.  When you make a substantial investment
    like that you don't want to make a mistake you will regret.
    
    If the nape yo saw in the store is 2 years old and never been owned it's 
    possible that it could be a tough bird if it hasn't been handled a lot 
    by the people in the store.
    
    Good luck on whatever you decide, and remember you're investing a large
    sum of money so don't let anyone talk you into anything that your not
    absolutely sure about!
    
    Juliette
149.6Occasionally Impulse can pay off, but as a rule.....WARLRD::SIMPSONThu Mar 30 1989 18:5733
Hello, Ian.
    
    I wholeheartedly agree with previous replies to your notes.  As
    a rule, it's better not to buy on impulse but to wait till your
    sure.  I have had a couple experiences like that.  But, on rare
    occasions, impulse can pay off.  I bought my Red Lored Amazon (Fergus)
    from a pet shop near us that primarily deals with birds.  They seem
    to be one of the best in Atlanta.  They take very good care of their
    birds and leave a good number of the tamer ones out on perces for
    people to handle and talk to.  When I was looking for a bird, about
    5 years ago, they had 2 hand-fed babies, the Red Lored and a cockatiel.
     The cockatiel was hand-fed by one of the store employees who had
    hatched him from a pair she had.  Fergus, the Red Lored, was a
    Quarantine bird that had been hand-fed.  He was about 4 months old.
     I looked at the cockatiel first, but was not really satisfied.
     He seemed a bit too flighty for my taste.  They brought the Red
    Lored out to me.  He immediately crqwled up on my shoulder, stretched
    his wings and said "Squawk."  It was love at first sight...  I probably
    could and should have looked a bit more before deciding on him,
    but he was so cute and sweet, that I couldn't resist.  I have never
    regreted my choice.  He is the sweetest bird I have ever seen. 
    He was bought to be my pet and fortunately, has remained so.  He
    loves to be cuddled and basically treated like a big baby.
    
    I don't know how other Red Loreds are but if they are like Fergus
    in temperament, they would be good to have around children, if you
    have any.  Fergus absolutely adores children.  They can do anything
    with him.
    
    Good Luck.
    
    Laurie 
    
149.7Decide CarefullyBOSHOG::WRONSKIThu Mar 30 1989 19:3460
    Hi Ian,
    
    I am the proud owner of a Blue-Front Amazon (yellow-winged type)
    and he/she is absolutely a "character"..... I bought him when he
    was about 6 to 8 months old and he is about 2.5 years old now. 
    When I bought him he was a bit scruffy since he didn't have all
    of his adult feathers, but the thing that sold me was the bird
    took an immediate liking to me.... he was already hand tamed so
    that was a plus.  I will have to tell you that I looked for a 
    Blue-Front/or Yellow-Nape Amazon for over a year, it took me that
    long to find the bird that was 'right' for me.  I would have to
    say that buying the youngest bird possible is the best thing to
    do... this way the bird will grow up with you and be much more
    of a friendly pet.  Remember though, a baby blue-front or any
    amazon is not going to look that pretty as it doesn't have all
    of its adult feathers yet.  But, one thing to look for is:
    
    An alert bird, clean nostrils, good droppings and some sheen to
    the feathers, also a bird that is playful (playing with toys in
    the cage)......
    
    A good size cage to start off with is about 20X20 by 36high (these
    are inside dimensions)... buy a good quality cage upfront as you
    will live to regret it later on.  Cages can be very expensive, so
    choose carefully.  I have just ordered a cage from Animal Environments
    out of Californina and an Amazon cage is $500.00 (but it is well
    worth it)...... 
    
    The price that you can expect to pay for a Good Blue-Front is
    from $600-$1000, and I would recommend buying a parrot from a 
    breeder if you can, the extra money spent is well worth it.  
    
    Also, I find a Blue-Front to be an excellent talker .... and at
    least I think my bird can talk as well (clarity) as any Yellow-
    Nape which is suppose to be a better talker.  Be patient and in
    time your bird will develop its own vocabulary.   Also, I have
    noticed that a bird can pick up a womens voice my easier in the
    beginning and then it can learn to mimmic the lower tones of
    a mans voice.
    
    Since you are not going to be home a good part of the day (like
    me).... I would make sure the parrot has a couple of 'safe' toys
    in the cage and I would also leave a radio on to keep him company.
                          
    Re: a Macaw, I think you should work with an Amazon first, a Macaw
    is a big bird and if you have not had birds in the past this bird
    can be quite a handful... a lot of people can be intimidated by
    the imposing beak with all of its power.... the Macaw could end
    up running your life if you do not know how to handle it
    correctly......
                                                            
    I'd have to also say that I think I have one of the best looking
    Blue-Fronts going.... he is as nice looking as any that I have
    seen pictures of (in advertisements) in Bird-Talk magazine.  
    
    Good luck, and remember don't buy on implulse.... make your
    decision carefully.
    
    David........
    
149.8can you tolerate SVCRUS::KROLLThu Mar 30 1989 20:188
    Please also read about their behavors when they mature and check
    out to see if you can tolerate that behavor.  Your baby may never
    do that you say, now!  but just be aware that it can happen and be
    prepaired for it.
    
    My younger sister did not expect it and now I am the owner of a
    double yellow head amazon that is very sexually mature.  this is
    even after haveing the bird for 7 years hand fed ect...
149.9DECISIONS, DECISIONSSPGBAS::BOURGAULTFri Mar 31 1989 16:5245
    Ian,
    
    I have a yellow-nape that I purchased a year ago from a breeder
    in Florida (Blue Ribbon Pet Farm, Homestead FL).  I did exactly
    what you're doing right now.  I shopped around a the different pet
    stores, decided what bird I wanted, read as much as I could about
    that bird and then proceeded to look in the back of Bird Talk for
    Breeders.  I called a number of them and received price lists. 
    I was looking for a baby but none were available at the time I wanted
    to buy--and let me tell you, when I was ready to buy I did not want
    to wait several months for the kids to hatch!
    
    I called Blue Ribbon and the gentleman told me that he had a loveable
    yellow nape about 8 months old that had been born on the farm and
    hand raised and very gentle (In fact he had two at the time).  He
    offered a guarantee on the bird..I believe it was for 3 mos. 
    (even if I didn't like it!) and a health certificate.  All for $675
    (Plus $28 flight charge that I paid COD).
    
    Well I took the chance and was so worried that I would get a scrawny,
    sick, pitiful little thing.  But to my surprise I got a beautiful
    young, healty little guy with clear, eyes peering out of the shipping
    crate when I picked him up!  He was hand tame and got right on
    my husband's hand when we extracted from his crate to his cage.
    The next day he started to mumble a bit but by the following day
    he was talking up a storm!  He has been a joy ever since! 
    
    The only unfortunate thing is that although I got the bird of my
    dreams...he loves my husband!  He is quite frisky with me and
    loves to nip me, especially when my husband is around. But His 
    exceptional vocabulary and actions are a scream!  He learns his
    words from me, and although his heart belongs to my husband,
    I wouldn't trade him for the world!
    
    At the time that I contacted Blue Ribbon, they had just had a clutch
    of Blue Fronts and were selling the hand fed babies for about $375.
    Of course that was over a year ago.  It may be worth giving them
    A call.  I know that I got a better bird at a better price than
    any local breeder or pet shop!
    
    Good luck in whatever you decide!
    
    Denise          .
                    
    
149.10the journey continuesGIAMEM::KALINOSKYcriminyMon Apr 03 1989 02:1140
First of all, many thanks to all of you for the advice and input you've 
provided here.  It is really helpful, and it is also nice to know that 
there are so many folks out there who are interested!

Friday night, we stopped by another local pet store.  Surprisingly, they 
had a blue and gold macaw for $1100, and a green-wing for $1200.  But I 
don't know if that's really any great deal for 1+ year-old birds whose past 
is questionable.  At the same place, there were 2 amazons in a cage, which 
I mistakenly thought were blue-fronts. I asked for the price of the 
"blue-fronts" and he quoted me $399.  A few minutes later, another employee 
came by and told me they were orange wings and were being sold for $99.
One was very tame, but his feathers looked terrible.  The employee said he 
was a "constant moulter", blamed this on the stress of being in the shop. 
My question is, does this make sense?  Any idea if this would go away in 
time?  (It didn't look like the pictures I've seen of birds that pluck 
their feathers.)  I felt bad for this little guy.

Saturday we went to a shop in New Hampshire that sells only birds.  Lots of 
blue-fronts, but the ones that stood out we already sold.  Some great greys 
though.

Today (Sunday) we went to Saratoga Springs, NY to look at a lilac-crowned 
amazon.  The bird was pretty, but kind of high-strung.  Starting to talk 
though.  Anyone know anything about these birds (lilac-crowned)?

Anyway, what I'm leading up to is that we're looking all over the place but 
are probably less sure of the type of bird we want.  I guess it will 
probably be an amazon, but which type is the question.  Also, when we 
started out we intended for this to be our only bird, but more and more 
we've been talking about getting 2 our more (eventually).  (We have the 
room, that's for sure.)  

Also, I was thinking that I should go ahead and buy a cage (amazon-size). 
Anyone know of a source in the Mass/NH area that has s good selection in 
stock?  Or is it better to mail order them?

Thanks,

  Ian
                                                 
149.11If you are only getting one bird...DUNCE::KIRSCHBAUMAnd so it Goes...Mon Apr 03 1989 14:2230
    These birds will live a long time, with that said:
    
    Do all the research you can, but BUY the bird you want to keep for
    a long long time!  If you determine you want a Macaw, then get a
    Macaw, or an Amazon etc...
    
    I honestly do not know if a Macaw is a lot more work than other
    birds, because a Macaw is the only bird I have.  They are definately
    time sinks, but from what I read, ALL hand-fed birds put a great
    demand on your time.
    
    There are certainly problems with a large bird, every Sunday he
    gets a shower and we blow dry him...this takes at least a half hour
    to 45 minutes, feathers dry slowly.  
    
    As far as a Macaw being able to intimidate you, so can any large
    dog, or a cat.  You can get bit by an Amazon just as easily as a
    Macaw.
    
    However, which ever breed of bird you get, Jean has the right idea,
    go to a GOOD aviary and get one that is hand fed if you can put
    together the money.  
    
    Since you live in New England, if you want to come by and see a
    hand-fed Macaw, send me a mail message.
    
    (In case you had not guessed, I am somewhat prejudiced towards Blue
    and Gold Macaws...)
    
    	-dick
149.12Bird BuyingMANILA::WALZMon Apr 03 1989 14:3921
    Dick is right, be prepared to live with your decision for a
    very long time (a lifetime)!  Don't feel the urge to impulse
    buy, or buy a bird because it looks pathetic.  Buy a healthy
    baby and buy the type of bird that you want.
    
    I suggest you do more research by visiting people with birds
    as Dick suggested.  Decided on the type of bird that you WANT,
    then research the people who breed those birds.
    
    You are taking a shotgun approach to a major decision.  Nothing
    is more sad than a bird who wasn't the "right type for me" who
    ulitmately will spend his life being passed from household to
    household.  He will learn to hate people and as a result this
    cycle gets shorter and shorter.
    
    Please consider spending the extra money for a hand raised baby.
    I could never have the same total trust in a wild caught, plus
    I believe that captive breeding---rather than importing---should
    be encouraged.
    
    
149.13ORANGE WING AMAZONSGIAENG::PULSIFERDoug Pulsifer 296-3332Wed Apr 05 1989 13:3213
    I have also decided that my first big bird will be an Amazon, but
    will never be able to justify the $900 for a hand raised Baby against
    my family committments. I have recently seen Orange Wing Amazons
    for sale @$150-$250 and am told you can get them wholesale from
    Quarantine for $75. This would open up new possibilities to me such
    as buying 4 @$75 and breeding them for my own babies and Profit.
                            
    Does anyone have any experience with Orange Wings, as far as training
    talking and pet quality ?
                            
    I am not rushing into this as I am devoted to training Buddie at
    present and don't have the proper space for more. I hope to have
    the room in 6-12 months. 
149.14FSTTOO::WIMMERWed Apr 05 1989 14:134
    I was told by my vet to stay away from orange wings and blue fronts
    if you have other birds as they tend to carry a lot of viruses.
     Obviously, I don't have the experience to substantiate this, but
    you might want to check into it.  Anyone else have on info?
149.15CSC32::K_WORKMANHand picked by Juan ValdezWed Apr 05 1989 15:3815
    Possibly I can accept the statement that some birds are more prone
    than others to viruses, diseases etc.. But the fact is that
    generalization is not fair to the bird.  Any bird can be free
    of any health problems if he is well cared for.  I've personally
    not heard this about blue fronts.  I used to have a wild caught
    blue front who had a pretty rough life before I got him and he
    never had any health problems.  
    
    My belief in buying a bird is that if you find one you like, see
    it SEVERAL times before you decide.  All of my birds are blood
    tested upon purchase.  You can't see everything in a blood test,
    but you can see ALOT.  The blood test as well as a fecal and
    general physical are important for the new bird.  It gives
    you a point of reference for judging his health conditions
    in the future.
149.16babiesSBLANC::MOEHLENPAHWed Apr 05 1989 17:159
    There are some aviaries which do bring in hand-fed babies through
    quarantine.  For example, blue fronts domestic might go for 750, and
    hand-fed babies imported for 275.  That certainly is a substantial
    difference in price.  I almost am tempted to get a couple.
    My problem is that what I really want is a SCARLET baby!  Or at least I
    think I do.  Anyone want to loan me theirs for a few days/months so I
    can find out? :-)
    
    Ed
149.17FSTTOO::WIMMERWed Apr 05 1989 20:346
    Karen,
    
    The information I was given pertaining to orange wings and blue
    fronts was not indicating that the birds themselves were not healthy,
    but that they had a much higher propensity to be carriers of certain
    viruses.  Again, I personally don't know, but was warned about this.
149.18let's talkBOSHOG::WRONSKIThu Apr 06 1989 15:106
    
    Orange Wings in general are not known to be good-talkers.... I have
    been told that if you are able to get them to say a few words then
    you should be satisfied.... They are still a great parrot, but if
    you want a talker than a Blue-Front is a much better talker......
    
149.19amazon adolescence?GIAMEM::KALINOSKYcriminyThu Apr 06 1989 20:1213
    One of the earlier replies alluded to the drastic change in an amazon's
    behavior upon reaching sexual maturity.  From the accounts of this
    that I've seen, it is something that really concerns me.  Anyone
    out there have any experiences with this (or not seen it in a mature
    bird)?  Is it inevitable that this happens?  Inquiring minds want
    to know.
    
      Also, I spoke to a breeder today who suggested that a ring-neck
    parakeet is a good pet. Any experiance with them out there?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Ian
149.20too loud for meSVCRUS::KROLLFri Apr 07 1989 00:0910
    My sister's double yellow headed amazon is now sexually mature after
    being a wonderful baby for 7 years.  he mounts anything that is
    available weather it moves or not.  bites me but not my husband.
    and coo's a LOT witch is extremely annoying.  I am sure this is
    a phase he goes through once a year, BUT BOY IS THIS A MESS.  we
    are normally a very QUIET house hold and just his normal talking
    voice is too much for us. 
    
    he is getting sent back or sold in the next two week if I have any
    say so.
149.21CSC32::K_WORKMANHand picked by Juan ValdezFri Apr 07 1989 12:3532
    A few bird club friends of mine have some Amazons... They breed
    mostly, Double Yellow Heads, Napes and Blue Fronts.  They seem
    to feel that alot of how the sexual maturity will affect your
    bird depends on his upbringing.  If the bird isn't bonded to
    you (ie you bought an older bird or possibly wild caught) there
    MAY be more problems with the nipping etc...  One of the ladies
    has a Yellow Nape that she hand raised and is now 6 years old.
    The bird is a female and does the wiggle bit occasionally on
    her arm, but is still sweet and enjoyable.  The bird started
    this behavior about 2 years ago.
    
    One thing they told me that I thought was interesting, is that
    it seems to depend on the sex of the bird.  They seem to feel that
    the females aren't near as bad as the males are when they 
    reach their sexual maturity.  I believe that my Blue Front
    was a female (don't know for sure) but he/she was around
    10+ years old when I got her.  She was VERY trainable, but
    nothing compared to a hand-fed.  She did shows signs of
    her sexual maturity but didn't seem to be any more hostile
    during those periods than at any other time. 
    
    We got started on this subject because I was (as you) worried
    about my Grey during sexual maturity, but since then I have
    talked to several people who all seem to confirm that hand-feds
    don't really have this extreme of a problem.  For one, yes 
    nature is calling, but some of them don't really know whats 
    going on since they really aren't in a social environment with 
    others of their species.  You are the love of their life, not 
    another bird that they have never seen.
    
    Karen
    
149.22baby napeGIAMEM::KALINOSKYcriminyFri Apr 14 1989 13:4221
    Well, yesterday I brought home a 15-week old yellow nape.  I got
    the bird directly from a breeder in Florida (Blue Ribbon Pet Farm,
    as mentioned in an earlier note).  I know that there are pros and
    cons to buying a bird this way, but so far the little guy seems
    to be great, pretty active and alert.  I will bringing it to a vet 
    tomorrow for a full check up.
    
    This is a hand-fed domestic baby that is not yet weaned, so my wife
    and I are getting the crash course in hand feeding.  So far, it
    has been a clumsy thing - I had envisioned that once the bird figures
    out that it's feeding time, he would cooperate.  That doesn't seem
    to be the case - he/she (we haven't named it yet, nor taken a guess
    at the sex) won't sit still throughout.  Any ideas out there?  
                                                             
    Ian
    
    P.S. For a cage, we bought a Newco cage (advertised in Bird Talk - "Polly
    Wants a Palace" ).  It's really neat - contact me if you want some
    info.
         
    
149.23SBLANC::MOEHLENPAHSat Apr 15 1989 01:0819
    Maybe it's trying to wean.  When the baby gets old enough, it doesn't
    want to get fed.  Try giving it some soaked monkey chow, and cheerios
    and soft veggies and things.  She/He will start picking at it, to play
    with it at first.  After a while, they recognize that it is food.  Just
    make sure that it maintains weight during this period.  You should talk
    to a vet to see what the critical weight is.  For example, my bird is a
    Hahn's mini, and the critical weight is 110 grams.  While weaning, my
    vet told me not to be concerned unless she got below that weight.  This
    means that the bird is not eating enough on their own, and must be
    force fed.  I would keep trying, if the bird won't fill its own crop. 
    Eventually, they get hungry enough to eat from your syringe, or eat for
    themselves.  Good luck.  
    If you have any problems, don't hesitate to contact me.  There are
    others in this notesfile who have hand fed, maybe they can give you
    some advice as well.
    
    Here's my home phone number  408-946-3045
    
    Ed
149.24...update...GIAMEM::KALINOSKYcriminyWed May 03 1989 19:5627
    Re: -.1  Thanks for the info.  Ollie (yes, we've named 'em) is still
    on the bottle, but is also eating cheerios, apple bits, grapes,
    seeds, and general parrot mix.  But he still wants to be fed in
    the early morning and in the evening.  I've heard that some birds
    will let you feed them forever, so I'm wondering how to get him
    independent.  I am assuming here that a nape that's 4 months and
    a week should be weaning, but am I wrong?   I have yet to see him
    actually drink water, and I'm also wondering how/when he should
    figure that out.
    
    I've had him to the vet and checked out and he seems to be in good
    health.  However, should anyone out there be considering getting
    a bird from a breeder and air shipping, my advice is that you should
    insist on the use of a direct flight, especially for a bird still
    on hand feeding.  Ollie flew from Miami to Boston via Charlotte,
    but didn't make the connecting flight.  This caused his arrival
    here to be delayed by 12 hours, and make him go without feed for
    a terribly long time.  Ollie has recovered from this ordeal , but it 
    wouldn't have happened had I known better.  
             
    Anyway, I'm delighted with Ollie and we've been having alot of fun
    with him.  Hand feeding is really alot of fun.  He's not speaking
    yet (too soon, I suppose).  Still kind of uncoordinated too.
    
    Ian