Conference 7.286::pet_birds

    
    Well they both sound good!  Have you tried Tropic Isle yet? they
    are in Framingham on RT 9.  Some folks might think that all pet/birds
    look the same, but I disagree.  So what I would do is go into the
    store when I was ready to buy and take a good look..and I would
    know right away if I saw MY bird (ya know what I mean?)
    
    I have a Yello Nape aslo (Reggie) and he was one of 10..and I know
    people who bought 5 of of the same litter of birds and mine is the
    most talkitive and the biggest of the other 5..so you will know
    when you see him
    
    Good luck
    
    LKP

    I think that the best place to buy a bird (or most any pet for that
    matter) is from a breeder.  There are quite a number of breeders of
    domestic-born, hand-raised birds of most types in this (MA/NH) area. 
    We even have one in this conference!  Jean Hutchins runs Feathered
    Obcessions Avaiary.  I bought both my C'Tiel and my Macaw from Dr. Al
    Decoteau in Dunstable MA, who I can highly recommend
    
    Dom

    I've been to Tropic Isle.  They have a great yellow nape there 
    right now.  They're asking $1295 for it.  So far he's the nicest 
    one I've held....he wasn't nippy at all the the others I held.
    I would rather not buy a bird there because I don't care for the 
    owners.  They're not very friendly, and they don't offer much
    information like the people at the other 2 places I visited.
    Although, the lady actually did talk to us when we showed interest 
    in this expensive bird.
    
    I can't swing getting the bird now but I was hoping to spend about 
    $1000....I think Von Exotics is asking this price.
    

Hi!
    
    o  Dom, thanks for the plug!  I appreciate it!  But, no offense,
    I cannot honestly recommend Al Decoteau...I shall leave it at that...
    
    Ron Parsons, owner of Von Exotic...well, careful there...Ron *used*
    to import birds..Then one day...he was offered some baby napes for
    around $200 each...he took 10 or 12 of them..  He was hand feeding
    them, and then they became ill.  One died...The STATE DEPOPULATED
    every single other bird in the store.  Ron was paid fairly for the
    loss of his stock...except in my opinion...he brought this upon
    himself, and the state should not have paid to kill his birds.
    
    You see, just about 2 years ago, someone that gets mentioned here,
    but does not work here, had access to a bunch of great baby birds
    for dirt cheap prices.  Breeders off all folks should know right
    off the bat if there is that kind of bargain in the offing, something
    must be wrong....well, this "friend" of some here, sold Ron the
    baby napes..  The napes had Exotic Newcastles Disease.  This is
    about the most fatal avian disease there is...in poultry it can
    be treated, but most of the time it is not...within 4 hours the
    affected birds succumb to the disease!  It is highly contagious
    and spreads to other birds, and humans in no time.
    
    It turns out that the birds were a front...There was a gun smuggling
    operation in LA that was supplying arms to 'them' guys in the gulf
    way east of here....8^}  Could you die?  And poor Ron Parssons really
    got burned, and burned bad.  Ron has always had a good relationship
    with the bird community.  He is a knowledgeable man, but sometimes
    appears to be cold and pushy...it's just his way.  If you could
    question the origin of the bird at Von Exotic, or check for a band
    on his foot...and you feel you were answered honestly...I'd say,
    go for it...get the bird from Von Exotic.  I, being a paranoid fanatic,
    would call the department of agriculture, and speak to the head
    veterinarian, and ask if there were any infractions relating to
    the shop I was going to buy from...
    
    But in all honesty and fairness, after what Ron has been through,
    he probably has the best picked over selection!  I really doubt
    he'd *ever* buy a bird from questionable origin again, I'd buy a
    bird from him!
    
    What happened to Ron can happen to anyone!  You have to be very
    careful!  If the sales staff wants to teach you...fine.  If they
    are just looking at the bird as feathers before the commission,
    then walk away!
    
    From another experience...Birds of Paradise in Plaistow is another
    one to be careful of!   It is very hard to buy a bird from a store!
    And Amazons are of the hardest parrots to raise.  sometimes you
    really have no choice.  If the birds and the store are clean, and healthy and
    the staff tries to spend time with you...well, almost any store
    could be the the one to buy from.
    
    I think the route you've taken, checking the stores and the staff
    is the wisest move, I am sure we *all* have horror stories from
    every store around.
    
    Did you call about the Tame and talking yellow nape in the for sale
    notes here?  This bird is owned by a veterinarian!  And comes with
    a cage and supplies!  Now, there's a healthy prospect for you!
    
    Hope this helps!
    
    Jean Hutchins
    (still_on_a_borrowed_account_and_keeper_of_Feathered-Obsessives!
    8^}
                                                      

    I was TOLD recently (I don't know firsthand!!!!) that Critter Litter
    (is that right?) in Plaistow had a serious problem with chlamydia!!
     SUPPOSEDLY there a couple a law suits pending!

    Jean,
    
    I was somewhat surprised at your comment about Birds of
    Paradise....I've been up there a couple of times for supplies and
    was very impressed with the woman who runs it, the cleanliness,
    and the birds themselves.  I've talked to several people who have
    given the place very high recommendations, including two avian
    vetinarians, one of whom checks their birds regularly.
    
    Just interested.....
    Diane
    

    Hi Diane....
    
    Birds of Paridise had the *same* problems as the Critter Litter
    place.  There is a nice little store on Broad street in Nashua too,
    that had many many serious health problems too!
    
    But...after a suit and threat of more...these places really pull
    up  the boot straps and make a 200% improved turn around... 
    
    It was just a factual comment...I understand they are one of the
    stores that is 200% better!
    
    BTW:  Would Dr. Gene Handle be one of the vets you mentioned??
    
    Jean 8^)
    
    

    
    I also purchased a hand-fed baby macaw from Al Decoteau.  I respect
    and believe what Jean has to say, however, Brian Holub said that
    the macaw, I bought from Dr. Decoteau was  one of the healthiest 
    birds he had ever seen....and he put it thru a full battery of tests.
    
    It is obvious that many of Decoteau's methods are in real varience
    with modern bird raising practices, however it appears that you
    can get some VERY nice birds from him....
    
    As in everything in life, I suspect you have to look around an compare,
    I cannot personnally say anything buy the nicest things about Al
    Decoteau.  He was extremely nice to us and the bird is a real sweetheart!
                               
    -dick kirschbaum

    Thanks for the clarification......I feel better now.  My impressions
    of the place so far have been quite good.  
    
    Nope, I don't know the vet you mentioned.
    

    re: .5
    
    Can somebody tell me what CHLAMYDIA is?  Can't find it in the books
    that I have..
    

    I will be visiting Southern NH this Saturday to look at bird shops....
    any suggestions on which places I should visit?
    
    I'm also planning on buying an Animal Environments cage while I'm
    up there.  Do any of you own one, and what do you think of them??
    
    Thanks,
    Juliette
    
    PS.  I don't think I'm going to be able to wait till spring to buy
         my Nape...  :-)
    
    

    re: .12
    How much do AE cages go for around here?
    I'm thinking about purchasing one from the company.
    
    Juliette
    

    What is an Animal Environment cage?  I have never heard of it before.
    
    Mark
    
    

    There was an article on AE cages in a recent edition of Bird Talk
    -- it just won an award for "Cage of the Year" or something.  They
    are supposed to contain 85% of the mess due to an extended apron
    design.  Retails quoted in the article were from $500 to $749. 
    They come in three sizes -- Amazon, Cockatoo, and Macaw, and 3 or
    4 colors.
    
    There is another one, called Tidy Home I think, that comes with
    rolled cage paper -- you just pull it through when replacing.  I
    think they are in the same price range.
    
    Both look great if you are willing to spend that kind of money!
    

    I talked to the AE people yesterday.  I'm interested in an amazon
    cage.  Price $449 + 43  for shipping and they said it would take
    10 weeks for delivery.  I'm thinking about having someone in California
    pick it up for me and bussing it over to me.  
    
    The prices I've been quoted from pet stores here in MA and NH....$550
    
    If I don't have someone pick one up in California I'll probably go
    to NH and pay the $550 
    
    -Juliette (NH_bound_this_weekend)
    

    Hi!  RE: .10
    
    Chlamydia is Psittacosis.  You will see it listed with Psittacosis,
    and Ornithicosis.  These are potentially fatal, but TREATABLE bacterial
    infections not viruses!  Usually 45 days on Tetracycline, Doxycycline
    will cure it!  Penecillin will not work on this because the 'cillins
    work on gram negative bacteria, and birds have no gram negative
    bacteria...well, they *should not* have gram negative bacteria.
    
    The chlamydia form of Psittacosis affects the throat and eyes and
    they get pox type lesions.  This can be effectively treated with
    the above mentioned cyclines and a chloramphenicol base opthimoloc
    preparation...if untreated and the infections go away, the eye could
    be left permanently damaged.
    
    Did I make this clear enough...or are you still confused???
    
    
    Jean

    pucidicosus is half virus half gram negative bacteria.  It sporalates
    and can be carried by pigens and doves.  the only persent cure now
    is techcyline.    

    HI CHARLA!
    
    All birds can carry/catch and pass on psittacosis...not just pigeons
    and doves, though they are prevalent carriers in the softbill species.
    Saying it sporalates makes it sound like a fungus and it is not..it
    is pathogenic.  It is passed from saliva and droppings.  As droppings
    dry, the psittacosis bacteria floats to new host.  
    
    Doxycycline, a 5th generation deriveritve of tetracycline, has becomed
    the drug of choice to cure the psittacosis because it kills only
    the bacteria sensitive to the drug, not ALL the bacteria as first
    generations of tetracycline would.  
    
    If psittacosis was a virus--it would not be 100% treatable and the
    birds that were diagnosed with it would be depopulated and the rest
    of the birds that had been exposed to it would be quarantined and
    monitored by the department of agriculture in respective areas.
    Not too long ago, before more pathology was understood regarding
    psittacosis, all cases that were diagnosed with a titer of >126
    had to be reported by the veterinarian to the board of health and
    respective related agencies.
    
    When people get psittacosis, the symptoms are very much like the
    flu.
    
    Jean

    Has anyone had any experience with Avian Academy in Freemont, NH?
    
    She said she could get us a 12week old baby nape by the end of
    February.  She apparently gets them when they are about 4weeks
    old; they are wild caught birds though.
    
    How much difference is there between a wild caught bird of that 
    age and a domestic-bred bird?  
    
    I'm also interested in knowing how independent do napes really 
    get as they mature?  I've heard so many things....i.e., developing
    biting habits....
    
    Thanks for any information,
    Juliette
    

    I thought that larger parrots, napes, grey's, cockatoo's etc, took
    4 months (16 weeks) before they were to be weaned.  Is this different
    with a wild caught?  
    
    A breeder told me that if you wean a bird too earlier his whole
    personality can be disrupted.  They get upset about not getting
    hand-fed and stay that way.

    re: the AE cages.....
    
    You might try calling Boston Pet Supply .....they are supposed to
    have an "outlet" store in Norwood.  They advertise a catalog and
    say they carry just about everything at "reduced" prices?????
    Might be worth a call anyway......
    

    I would very much like a clearification as to why everyone in this
    notefile that "SELLS" birds has a predjudice against Al Decoteau......
    
    
    sounds like JOB SECURITY TO ME!!
    
    
    chet

    Chet,
    
    I'm not sure what you are basing the comment that "everyone" in
    this notes file is prejudiced.  I ran through the replies again
    and found one "I can't recommend" and two positive comments, one
    of the two tempered with a comment about "nonstandard" breeding
    practices..... 
    
    I personally don't know or know about the person in question....I
    have, however, met and talked with the one person who did not make
    a positive recommendation.  I am quite sure that the comment was
    NOT made based on any "job security" issue!  I just purchased a
    bird from her, and if anything, she was more concerned that the
    bird would have a good home than making a sale!!!!!
    
    If you have an issue with the comment that was made, perhaps you
    should contact her directly since she is not on the notesfile at
    this time.
    
    Diane
    

    I got my hand fed maxillium parrot form Al and I am very happy about
    it.  I traded labor for it but if I were to equate it to cash I
    paid 3 times what I could have bought it for.  I have always got
    healthy birds form him, even though he is very over priced.
                           
    charla

    Last Monday I happened across a pet shop that opened that very day.
    It's Fish World on 101A in Amherst, NH.  I think the plaza is called
    Greystone Plaza...it's the one with DeMoulas Market Basket and Zayres,
    only it's in the front part of the plaza, next to a dry cleaners.
    Anyway.  They had no birds yet, but I got into a conversation with
    a man who was walking around with a Cockatiel on his shoulder. 
    His name is Mark (I'm terrible with names on first intro), and he
    said he trains birds, mostly out of Manchester, NH.  I liked what
    he had to say and was wondering if anyone in this file knows of
    him.  
    
    One thing he told me is that a lot of the police in Manchester have
    parrots and come to him to hand tame them.  I asked him about birds
    that bond to one person (usually the opposite sex from what I've
    read here) and attack the same-sex person.  He said it was simply
    very bad behavior which could be trained out of the bird, and birds
    don't prefer humans of the opposite sex.  He seemed to know what
    he was talking about.  The main reason I'm asking for feedback is
    that I'm looking for someone to teach me how to handle large birds,
    and I was thinking of asking him.  I have no experience, and am
    a little intimidated by the larger birds. 
    
    Karen

    Hi,
    
    I just wanted to let you all know about a place I found in Hooksett,
    NH.  This place was great.  The owner specializes in water foul
    but has a great selection of domestic bred hookbills and some kinds
    of birds I had never seen before.   All of the birds want to come
    out and play.  They were great!
    
    Its called:  Wet and Feathered Pets 
                 
    Specializing in Domestic Hand Raised Birds and Tropical Fish
    
    
    The address is 1558 Hookset Rd.
                   Hooksett, NH 03106
                    603-485-7888
    
    The folks running the place are husban and wife
    
    Stuart P. Denton and Sylvia K. Denton
    
    You should stop by and check it out.
    
    Mark
    

RE: Pet Stores in Atlanta...

The two best pet stores in terms of birds (that I've found) are:

For Birds Only (and Fish Too!) - on Roswell Rd in Buckhead.  The biggest
	variety of finches I have ever seen in one store, hand fed cockatiels,
	and lots of the big birds: several cockatoos, macaws, a toucan,
	conures, eclectus, and amazons.  The owners name is Floyd and I
	know he raises at least all the finches in his own aviary.

The Aviarium - At Market Square Mall, which is near 285 on the west side of
	town.  They carry mostly the larger birds and usually have a few
	nifty ones like lutino ringnecks and severe macaws.  They have a 
	room with two glass walls in which they keep a free-flying flock 
	of breeding parakeets.

As I'm just shopping around right now, I couldn't name a good avian vet,
maybe someone else here in Atlanta knows one.

PS. Are you the same Cheryl I replied to in the Atlanta Notes conference?
    If so, For Birds Only is closer to Holcomb Bridge.  You could take 400
    south then jog right on 285 to Roswell Rd.  Continue South on Roswell
    for a few miles and it will be on your right.

    
    
      Is it possible to have some updated info on this note string? 
    
      Is Jean Hutchins, still in business or in the area still?
    The area being southern New Hampshire.  What are the opinions
    or, on a scale of 1 to 10, the ratings of local stores?  How 
    about Windsong Avaiary in Merrimack? 
    
      rgds
    
     -Rick.