Conference 7.286::pet_birds

    CHUCK,
    
    My parakeet had a cold and through the notes I got a lot of advice
    that helped me, see note 30. What finally helped me was medicated
    seeds.

    Hi Chuck,
    
    Oh neat a White Front!  I saw some babies the other day.  They are
    neat birds!  A couple of things on the cold;  When Doc sneezes,
    does anything come out?  Does he have any discharge in his nose?
    A bird sneezes up so look up above his nose for signs of dropplets
    of moisture which may have been sneezed out of his nose.
    If you look down his throat, there is an upside down V looking
    slit in the back.  Normally it is pinkish color and there are little
    white things that are on either side of the V.  If these white things
    aren't there or are real swollen and the throat is a dark pink to
    red color then he is probably fighting something.  Do you notice
    that his tongue is wet?  Normally the very back of the tongue and
    into the throat are slightly wet but if you see that the whole tongue
    is wet , this too might mean that he is fighting off something.
    If you have a little Pen Light, you can look down his throat and
    see pretty clearly.
    
    If you really wanted, you could invest in a pediatric stethescope
    that you could listen to your birds chest with.  See if there is
    any weasing noise as he takes a  breath.  I bought one recently upon
    Jean Hutchins recommendations.  It is one for infants and premature
    babies.  It works great.  Just don't let your bird chew on it!!!
    
    My birds sneeze pretty regularly.  Birds sneeze more in dry areas
    and areas where there is a lot of dust or areosol (not good too
    use around birds) type stuff in the air.  Colorado is really dry.
    I keep a humidifier running constantly in the room where my birds
    are.
    
    My birds also look like they are shaking sometimes but a certain
    amount of this is also normal.
    
    The one thing to remember is that birds have learned from being
    wild to hide their illnesses.  If they didn't then they would be
    another animals dinner.  When the bird can't hide his sickness any
    more, it is usually too late, meaning that he has been sick for
    some time.  Droppings are a real good indication of what is going
    on.  You really can't wait too long however before you make a decision.
    My birds handle going to the VET really well, so I usually take
    them at the first sign that something is wrong.  It is probably
    best to go ahead and take him in just to be safe.  You will learn
    alot from your VET visit and have a point of reference for any problems
    in the future you may have (hopefully none!).  If you do see signs
    of illness, the first thing to do is keep him warm (80-85 degrees)
    usually with a heating pad under the cage and saran wrap on the top 
    and sides to keep the heat in and get him to the vet ASAP!
    
    Let us know how Doc is doing !
    
    
    

Off hand, his nose isn't running. I do know that he's dry on top. 
He preens often though much of it seems to be scratching. His shaking?
I don't think that it's excessive, a quiver now and then.

I'll take a closer look at Doc tonight with your comments in mind.

I'm not known as the world's best bird handler. I know that he's been 
handled well in the past, I've seen my sister do it. I just feel like a 
clumsy oaf when I do it though.

We HAVE been reducing the amount of sunflower seed he's been getting
by mixing the Topper seed with his old type (which has quite a bit of 
sunflower.  Perhaps this is contributing to his current condition.
(He's been quieter. No morning squak session this morning). I've
started putting vitamins in his water too.

Should I take Doc to a vet, (he should get a general checkup anyway) 
anyone know of a good vet in the Concord-Portsmouth, NH area. Or one to 
stay away from?  I'd like to get Doc a Doc close by.

Re: 2

Where did you see the young White Fronts?  My girlfriend Val wants to get
Doc a buddie.  I don't think we'll be able to get one for awhile but
might as well start educating ourselves now.


Chuck

    Hi again Chuck..
    
    Personally I would go ahead and take Doc to a good VET.  Look under
    the VET topic and see if there is reference to a good one in there
    in your area.  If not, you might call around.  I would find a VET
    that is a member of the Association of Avian Veterinarians.  You
    may even call the association to find a good Bird Vet in your area.
    I don't have their number, but their address is:
    
    5770 LAKE WORTH ROAD
    LAKE WORTH, FLORIDA 33463
    
    You really stand to gain piece of mind knowing that Doc is in good
    health or that you caught a problem early enough to treat it....
    
    Re:  The White Front Babies....
    
    I'm in Colorado.  There is a Woman that lives in Denver that breeds
    several parrots, macaws etc...  She has 3 White Front babies, I
    think about 4 months old.  They are real sweeties.  They are probably
    too far away for you, but I'm sure if you started finding some good
    breeders, they could probably lead you to some babies just like
    these.  If you want a mate for Doc however you may want to consider
    an older Bird.  Amazon's don't really come into full mating potential
    until they are around 5.

    Let me know how Doc is doing!
    
    Bye

    If you don't mind driving half an hour, my vet in Rowley specializes
    in birds -- Weetahmo Vetinary Hospital, 508-948-2323.  They are
    about 3 minutes of route 95 at the Rowley,Route 133 exit.
    
    In terms of finding a buddy for Doc, try Birds of Paradise in Plaistow.
    She can get you just about anything and her birds are very healthy
    -- she uses Weetahmo to check out everybody.

    Chuck,
    
    Being quiter could be the change in food.  I read a pamphlet put
    out by Topper which claims that a diet high in sunflower seeds can
    cause mild hyperactivity.  Supposedly there is a small level of
    a narcotic in sunflower seeds which causes this (however, there
    are those who are now claiming that this is not true).  There seems
    to be quite a bit of controversy over the sunflower seed issue,
    but just to be safe, my Max only gets them as a treat.  It is
    definitely true that sunflower seeds are high in fat, which is not
    good.
    
    The sneezing and sleeping on two feet worry me.  My grey never sneezes,
    and our house gets pretty dry in the winter, even with the humidifier.
    I would definitely pack Doc off to the Doc if I were you.
    
    Laura and Mad Max

    
    Another good Vet is Dr. Brian Holub at Countryside on Route 110
    in Chelmsford.  508-256-9555.  He really knows and likes birds,
    I take my Macaw to him for yearly checkups, and any other problems.
    He will also return phone calls.
    
    It is probabally good to do a general checkup when you first get
    a bird, but it is expensive.  The yearly on the Macaw cost me $80.
    I don't suspect that it would be cheaper on an Amazon.  This included
    all the blood tests.
    
    -dick
          

Well, Doc went to Dr. George Messenger at the Companion Animal Clinic and
Hostital in Allenstown, NH.  I'd called the Wingsong Aviary in Merrimack
asking for a reference in my area and they directed me to him.

Dr. Messenger checked Doc out and said that he was is good health. (Doc 
hadn't been sneezing for a few days) He also said that Doc was OVERWEIGHT 
(202 grams).  We asked about mites and Dr. Messenger said that mites were 
rare around here. We asked about the shivering. Some was normal. After the
inspection, he took Doc out back and trimmed his beak a little bit. The beak 
was a little too long and the end of it had grown out from under a part of 
the beak that made him look like he has a broken nose.  It looks much better 
now. Dr. Messenger said that with proper diet, a bird never needs to have his 
beak or his nails trimmed.

He inspected what we had been feeding Doc and said that the Topper seed was 
probably the best seed that he knew of. He did point out the safflower seed
and said that they were rich in fat and oil and combined with the sunflower 
seed, and peanuts could be one reason why Doc was so fat. He looked at a 
sample of the old seed that we were weaning him off of. As he was identifing 
the mix, he said, "Here is sunfloweer seed, corn, a little bit of biscuit and 
here's a marijuana seed (sp)....." Yes, there were marijuana seeds in the old 
feed that Doc had been getting. (8^}   THAT got dumped when we got home.

The powdered vitamins that we'd been giving Doc, I'd mixed up in a 1/2 gal 
jug and poured it into his dish each day. Dr. Messenger said that the vitamins 
start to break down as soon as they're dissolved.  He recommended sprinkling the
power onto his food and giving it to him directly.

We asked him what was the best thing to feed him and he recommended pellets,
dried dog food, monkey chow and people food. Anything that a person eats, 
Doc can eat (within reason), even little bits of meat. Scheduled feeding times
(twice a day) would be a good idea. Feeding him 80% pellets with 20% other
food would be is a good idea for him too.

Doc took his handling well, but after the Doctor was done handling him, 
I reached out for Doc and he just about jumped a foot to get to my hand. He
looked like hell with his feathers all ruffled up.  He was breathing hard
too and his feet were very warm.  

We bought a 1 lb bag of pellets to try out and took a bunch of handouts
about nutrition.  We also got a complimentary 2 month subscription to
Bird World. We were discussing birds in general and Dr. Messenger mentioned
that we look for the next issue of Bird Talk.  Someone was writing something
about him in an article.

Oh yes, Dr. Messenger charges $30 plus tests. We didn't do any tests on Doc
because Doc has been living with a family for quite awhile. If Doc had come
from a pet shop, he would have been tested.

So, what do you all think about the advice that Dr. Messenger gave us?  Was it
sound?

    You are are an excellent person for taking him to the VET.  The 
    information your vet gave you is the same that my VET tells me.
    There is safety in numbers!  (know what I mean).  Doc is lucky
    to have you.  
    
    Don't you feel better now knowing that you have a healthy bird!
    I used to worry about every little thing my bird would do that
    would be different.  After taking my bird to the vet, I now
    have a reference point and can more easily notice if something
    is wrong or different about him, besides you learn so much 
    from your Vet.
    
    Karen  

    re .8
    
    The only part I've never been told before was that with a proper
    diet beaks and nails don't need to be trimmed.  Max gets Topper,
    vitamin supplements, and people food, but his nails grow.  I would
    think with a good diet they would grow more.  Especially since he
    doesn't have as much to wear them down like he would in the wild.
    
    Did the Vet give any more details about this statement?
    
    Laura and Mad Max
    

    Hi You Guys!
    
    Nails and beaks...well, nails grow like everyones' nails...All the
    time!  Beaks however, should stay trim if there are proper elements
    to wear them down.
    
    Wingsong Aviary is a great place to glean information, supplies
    and beautiful and healthy stock...Be sure to get your information
    from Paul Foster or Brian McKinnely...THEY are the ones that know
    what is happening....one of the clerks gives questionable information!
    
    And, back to .3:
    
    It is very common to find hemp seeds in bird mixes!  These seeds
    are sterile, so that they do not sprout.  Gee, do you realize what
    that would do to the street value of average parrot mix and
    conditioning food?  8^}
    
    Hemp is high in vitamins, and oils.  It is a fine seed to feed the
    birds...they eat it natural in the wild...I guess eating the seeds
    of the hemp plant does not affect the birds the same as the weed
    affects people...B-!  (<------ that's a smoker wearing glasses!)
    
    AND...your original question????  YES birds do get colds!  We pass
    the bacteria on to them, or they just incubate their own...keep
    away from drafts, and if you are suffering from a cold, do not breathe
    on the bird, or cough near him...wash your hands before feeding
    and handling him...and NEVER, NEVER let your bird floss your teeth
    for you, or do much intimate kissing....parrot people know what
    I mean...  Birds have positive bacteria flora in their systems,
    and have NO negetive bacteria!  We have both, negatived and positive.
    If we share our negative bacteria with the bird, ie, saliva, or
    sharing foods, mouth to mouth, the birds have no way to compensate
    for the negative bacteria!  They become sick.
    
    It sounds like Dr. Messenger is pretty good!  My Preference is Dr.
    Holub in Chelmsford!  He's just wonderful!  But alas, Uncle Dr.
    Brian is VERY expensive!!
    
    If Doc is sneezing a lot...changing his diet, and offering more
    moisture will be a big help!  When they preen, they make all that
    dust and viola...they sneeze!  My Ctiels do this all the time. 
    The ones in the living room can make down feathers float all the
    way over to the wood stove, and that's a good 15' away!
    
    Please read the topic on feeding!  There is lots of good information
    and conversation there to help you out!
    
    Jean Hutchins

    One more thought...
    
    If Doc is a great bird, and a wonderful pet...leave well enough
    alone, and DON'T get him a mate...A friend and I are contemplating
    breeding Red Lored Amazons..however there is much to be considered.
    
    
    o	Breeding an amazon takes away pet quality, most likely never to
    be found again...
    
    o	Once a pair is bonded, you may not be able to separate them
    again.  If separated one refuses to eat, etc.  There is a big risk
    there!
    
    o	Be sure of the sexes.  The safest proof is surgical sexing with
    a  certificate from the vet.  Male/Male pairs fight.  Female/Female
    pairs fight to the death....Male/female pairs bond, copulate and
    lay eggs.  Most eggs are infertile.  Most often, the hatchlings
    of the first few clutches do not survive to fledge...
    
    And so on and so on...
    
    You are Doc's best company!  Another bird and they will rather
    socialize with one another than another person!
    
    Doug, back me up!  Where are you Doug!?
    
    Jean (Hutchins_who_is_still_sharing_an_account!  8^})