Conference oass::racers

    can't say how to adjust the data for solo events, but S2 and FAtl are
    equivalent road racing cars.  Both are significantly faster than FFs,
    probably due in good part to aerodynamics.  Also, remember that rumor
    has it even FFs are too long a wheelbase to turn in well on tight solo
    circuits, I've heard many folks cut them down to assist in that area. 
    From that I'd wonder if the S2 is going to prove similar to an
    unmodified FF - and I doubt you'd want to start cutting on the S2 tub!

    
    I thought that lap times for S2 were between FC and FF for most tracks.
    I can't see how an S2 could be comparable to an FA since an FA has
    about 60 to 90 more hp and larger wheels and tires. I was trying to get
    an idea if the S2 better lap times came about because of higher top
    speed and extra downforce in corners. It also seems that the better
    torque curve of the S2 should be an advantage exiting corners compared
    to a Ford. 
      The way that the new mod class rules for Solo is that only certain
    manufacturers of FF are allowed to run in C mod. There can be no 
    dimensional changes in the chassis except for track width determined
    by allowing offset wheels. The chopped up FF chassis go to A mod or
    B mod along with a host of other changes.
      I have raced a Van Dieman RF84 and found it to negotiate the tight
    solo courses with no real problem except for some awkwardness in tight
    slaloms. I think that this was more attributable to the steer
    characteristics of the bias ply race rubber, I just need to get more
    use to them. I did find the car really felt good in the more open, fast
    sections of the course.
     My thinking is that the S2 might be at a disadvantage at local events
    because of the small available lots. At the Solo II Nationals, the
    courses are like mini road courses. Plenty of room to pick a line and
    drift a car all on a concrete surface. I have seen FF be within   
    1 sec of the top A mod Solo special cars on tight courses but be 5 
    sec back on National courses due to double the horsepower and bigger
    wheels and tires of the A mod cars.
      Actually there is a phenomenon going on in the Solo with the A mod
    cars. They are using wings to create downforce. The wings are the
    biggest of any cars in racing. Actually some of the wings are so big
    that they can't fit the cars in enclosed trailers and have to use
    open trailers .
    

    the race group organization for road races usually puts S2 and FAtl in
    the same group no matter what the rest of the groupings are.  Depending
    on entry count, they might also run with FC and FF, or FC and FF might
    be in another group of their own, or FF might run alone with FAtl, FC
    and S2 grouped together.  Generally S2 will be somewhat slower than
    FAtl but I believe they'll be right up with FC, not sure which of those
    two would have the edge.
    
    and, as I said earlier, I don't know enough about solo events to really
    comment on that aspect of this topic.

The Atlantics are definitely faster than the S2000s. As far as S2 vs. FC
though I am not sure. The results from the regional race at the Glen had
several FCs before the first placed S2. But that's a regional race and
the drivers aren't usually as good as those who run nationals.

    fwiw ...
    
    Top 3 finishers in each class (Sept 15-16 event at NHIS):
    
    QUAL FAST TIMES                RACE FAST TIMES 
    
    FF	   FC	  FA	 S2         FF      FC      FA      S2
    
   1:09   1:07   1:06   1:08       1:09    1:06    1:04    1:06
   1:11   1:08   1:08   1:09       1:11    1:08    1:07    1:07
   1:11   1:09   1:11   1:09       1:11    1:09    1:07    1:07
    
    
    Jo-Ann

Looking at those times they must have been from a Regional. I'll see if I
can scrape up some times for a National. Regionals by their nature aren't
accurate for a comparison.

    >Times seem inconsistant . . . Regionals by their nature aren't
    accurate for comparison.
    
    Probably National vs Regional isn't accurate for comparison, but
    comparing class with class within a national or regional event should
    be accurate.
    
    Times from different *tracks*, however, are not accurate for
    comparison.  For example, at LRP the fast times for the 4 classes
    consistently line up as -- FA - FC - S2 - FF -- with FA being the
    fastest.  But at NHIS, FC and S2 trade places:  FA - S2 - FC - FF.
    And then, if you add rain to the event (at NHIS), FA and FF swap,
    finishing as FF - S2 - FC - FA.
    
    >But that's a regional race and the drivers aren't usually as good as
    those who run nationals.
    
    Quite often, those drivers are the same, and run both national and
    regional events.  I haven't yet heard of a driver loosening up a
    throttle cable to turn slower times because it was "just a regional".
    Currently, of the 4 classes in question, the track records for FF, FC,
    and S2 (at NHIS) are held by drivers running in a regional event.
    
    Jo-Ann
    

    Well, NER is having their final regional this Sunday (only) at NHIS.
    Saturday is a SOLO II event at NHIS somewhere/somehow on the track.
    
    Sunday's qualifying starts at 8:30AM.
    
    If you haven't been up there this year, this is the day. It's a no
    points regional for fun, and the theme is "Racing Against Leukemia".
    
    If you wanted to work an event and haven't, this is the day....
    
    For the folks wanting to run the SOLO II event Saturday, this is one
    you have to pre-register for. My understanding is that you need a
    seatbelt, Snell 75 helmet and a drivers license. Maybe convertables
    need a roll bar. I've never done one so I can't really say. If you're
    interested, call Kathy Barnes (203) 875-2220 - NO CALLS AFTER 9PM.
    
    I just noticed - Oct 16th was the last day before any late fees.
    
    jim e
    

In the U.K. FF always run in their own class so do sports 2000
why are do you run mixed grids?

    
    Re .9
    
      FF and S2000 run together in the Solo II series which uses pylons to
    outline courses that are run on old airstrips and large parking lots.
    Solo II emphasizes medium and low speed handling and agility rather
    than top speed and aerodynamics.

re .9
It partly depends on the track, partly on the area in the country and
partly the time of year. At Lime Rock it usually goes something like this 
in the middle of the season -

Pro S2000	full grid
Pro Atlantic	full grid
National	Atlantic + S2000 full grid
National	FF (1600cc) and FC (2000cc) ~50% each
Regional	Atlantic - only a few cars
Regional	S2000 - only a few cars
Regional	FC fill out the grid with FA & S2
Regional	FF + CF (older FFs) full grid ~50% each to a few more CFs

As far as who runs which races. I can't answer about FC and S2 but
there are some FF drivers who run both Nationals and Regionals usually
not the fastest. I'll probably be one of them next year but I certainly
don't consider myself fast. There are no fast FA drivers who run
Regionals regularly in the North East.

>>    Currently, of the 4 classes in question, the track records for FF, FC,
>>    and S2 (at NHIS) are held by drivers running in a regional event.

How many National races have there been at NHIS since it opened?

.11> How many National races have there been at NHIS since it opened?
    
    Including or excluding the opening event?
    
    As for drivers running both, there are typically few if any of the fast
    National drivers who run Regionals other than infrequently for special
    reasons (eg, shakedowns, track learning), as far as I can see.
    
    Class mixes vary considerably with event and track.  There are times
    that Lime Rock has to split Club Fords and FFs into seperate groups
    because of limitations on cars per track mile, on the other hand
    sometimes FF and CF will run together with FAtl and FC in a single
    group.  Depends on the entry list and the track.  FWIW, I have driven
    in races where each of the above descriptions was true, over about five
    years of driving, although the previous reply was the most common
    situation.

    
    How many S2000 are currently running in SOLO II competition?  Or, more
    specifically, how many Swift DB-2 S2000's are running in SOLO II, (as
    opposed to the Sisaspa PRO S2 series???)
    
    How many FF (NOT CLUB FORDs) are running in SOLO II competition? 
    Again, more specifically, how many Swift DB-1's are running in SOLO II
    competition?
    
    What is a cost analysis for older FFs and S2s?
    
    It would seem that in competition where top speed is NOT necessary, as
    opposed to acceleration, which is, the LESS WEIGHT you have to accelerate,
    the better.  Gear the FF to make up for the loss in displacement, and you
    are already 180 lbs to the positive.
    
    Personally, I've seen many older FFs in SOLO II, and no S2s.
    
    
    bob

     
    There are only two S2 that I know of in the country running Solo. Both
    were at the Solo Nationals and were not driven very well. Although one
    of them was running well enough to show that it might have some promise
    against the Fords. You can also gear down an S2 for better
    acceleration. There are a few non club formula Fords running, Lola T
    640, Van diemens and Zink Z-16's. The fastest cars this year were
    Lola T342, Tiga's and Lola T540. but some of these guys have been
    running these cars for up to 6 years when they ran in B mod against
    the Formula Atlantics. It seems that it will take a few years for
    things to settle down and people find out just what is the hot set
    up and chassis.
      By the way the S2 that were at the Solo Nationals were a Lola T496
    and a Tiga SC83.