[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference nyoss1::market_investing

Title:Market Investing
Moderator:2155::michaud
Created:Thu Jan 23 1992
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1060
Total number of notes:10477

706.0. "TeleChart 2000" by CPDW::ROSCH () Fri Mar 25 1994 13:39

    Telechart 2000 by Worden Brothers. I have a copy for evaluation for 1
    month and a $15/credit for online time.  I don't know much about chart
    services but so far I'm impressed. Anyone who's used it for long - what
    do you think? My purpose is to do technical analysis on a limited
    budget. 
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
706.1Worden and ChartingDWOVAX::ZACZEKAnything for a buckTue May 03 1994 20:54117
    I've used Worden Brothers' TC2000 for about a year and have made a
tidy sum (five figures worth of capital gains) that I attribute to using charts 
to assist in buy-sell decisions.  

I'm a strong advocate of CANSLIM (which was described earlier in
this conference), and frequently locate opportunities in Investor's Business
Daily, which I then download using TC2000.  Usually, a breakout in volume
is what attracts my attention to a particular issue.  If the chart shows me
that a stock is in an uptrend, or has made an emphatic break into an uptrend, I
then check business news on the stock over Dow/Jones News retrieval, and make
my buy decision based on a combination of CANSLIM technicals, and the
fundamentals of the particular issue.   

Here's an example.  I noticed increasing volume a year ago on Humana (HUM) when 
it was around ten.  I checked Dow Jones News //WIRES and say that there was 
heavy insider buying.  I figured Health Care was going to recover from Clinton, 
that HMO's would be beneficieries, etc. and made a buy decision.  I used the 
TC2000 candlestick charts to track HUM, paying special attention to the daily 
Volume and to the Stochastics (with 5 day and 15 day moving averages).  Over
the course of a year, I bought and sold HUM four times, catching many of the 
intermediate term dips and all of the intermediate highs (which you can usually 
tell because volume dries up on the peaks and valleys and the stochastics
transition).  I made about 20% on  my money each time I bought and sold HUM, 
which is not bad given that it was compounded.  Did I make more money on HUM
than by buying and holding?  In my case, I did, but sometimes you don't make
enough to warrant the time and commissions. What I did do, however, is reduce
my risk by reducing my market exposure.  From my point of view, you have risk
when you are in the market and none when you are out, if you define risk as
risk to capital preservation.  I was out of the market for much of the time, or
cycling my funds into other stocks (like Skywest) which had a nice trading
pattern, rather than sitting through downcycles.  It's all a matter of taste, I
suppose, and I like trading.  


I never buy during a downtrend, as the single instance that has burned me the
most has been trying to guess a bottom, and trendline analysis (looking at
periods of 1 day, 3 days and 1 week) is what tells me whether a stock is in a
long term downtrend, or not.  For example, Telmex has been all over the place
and has recently come back to 58 (or so) from an intermediate low of 50.  If
you look at a 1 day graph,  you might think that TMX had bottomed.  If you look
at a 5 day graph, you'll see that it is still cycling in a long term downtrend
and has not made a clear upside breakout yet.  The chart also shows me that
there is weak support (for TMX) around 55, and that the next level of strong
support is close to 45.  (At least this is how I read those tea leaves.) 
For my part, I would much rather buy TMX as it shoots past 60 on strong volume 
than take a chance on guessing that 50 is a bottom.


I have recently (successfully) used charting to find some place to make money 
given the volatile state of the U.S. market.  I cashed out in early April when 
I saw the S&P 500 break through its 200 day moving average, and avoided most of 
the carnage of early April.  After looking at the U.S. market and all the 
normal indicators, I decided there was too much risk (this is the "M" in 
CANSLIM), and decided to look elsewhere in the World to make money.  I 
downloaded a large number of Country Funds into my Worden and looked for
two things:

	What markets were in an uptrend?
	What markets were acting pretty much independently of the
		U.S. market - i.e. which did not crater in Feb. and April?

The Country funds gave me a real-world view.  I looked at Malaysia, Japan,
United Kingdom, CHile, etc. etc.  Of all of these, I saw that Italy looked 
pretty good. I would not BUY a Country fund, becuase they sell at a premium to 
the underlying stocks.  For example, why buy Mexico Fund when you know it's 
largest holding has to be TMX and you're going to pay 6% or better in hidden
loads?  Discovering that Italy Fund's (ITA) chart looked good since the first 
of the year lead me to look at Italian stocks, and I ended up buying Fiat (FIA), 
Bennetton (BNG), and Montedison (MNT).  Germany looked good too, but I held
off until the Bundesbank made its moves, then bought Daimler Benz - (DAI), 
which charting showed  to be reaching new highs.

Bottom line (whew), is that charting is a good tool to make buy/sell/trading 
decisions after you have checked out the fundamentals of the company.  
Worden is cheap, it's reliable, it's easy to use and to play with.  You
can learn a lot using Worden, so that you can work up to more sophisticated
packages if you wish later on.  It's downside is that you have to locate the 
stock, and pay a minimum of $1.50 to download it to do your "what if" analysis.
I am currently moving up to Telescan (which a friend of mine has), that
charges a flat rate for data access to every stock.  Telescan lets you
define your own algorithms, and even use CANSLIM criteria to locate stocks 
which match a preset pattern.  Telescan software costs almost $300.  You 
can "what if" as many stocks that you want by paying a flat, non-prime time 
rate in the neighborhood of $75/month.  Even still, I think Worden is an 
excellent place to start.  You can't beat the price - around $29, and my 
monthly usage ran around $25.  Since it's so cheap, you can start with it and 
then make the decision to upgrade to another service if you find that you like 
charting.

Anyway you cut it, using charting tools is primarily useful to very active
traders, and probably of less use to buy-and-holders (although people who
bought Chrysler at 6 two years ago and held it to 60+ a couple of months ago
should take a close look at the charting pattern and make their own decision
whether or not the "cyclicals" have seen their cycle.  The chart looks like 
lower highs and lower lows to me.



P.S.

When you use charts, you have a selection of displays.  I always use 
"candlestick" charts, which show the open, close, high and low for a day.  
There is quite a religion about reading candlesticks, and Worden's Press sells
some books on it.  The predictive rate of candlestick chart patterns appears
to be pretty good if a stock is trending sideways or going up; not so good on a 
decline.


P.P.S.

Worden publishes its own list of recommended stocks.  Of course, if you
want to follow them you download them and pay the buck-and-a-half.  This is OK 
if their picks are good - not so, otherwise.  So far, I'm not impressed with 
Worden picks.  Typically, they seem to be trying to locate stocks which
are recovering after a prolonged sell-off.  This amounts to trying to guess a 
bottom, which has never worked for me. I'd warn you to buy a Worden-recommended 
stock very carefully.
706.2Get your free copy of TeleChart2000LEDDEV::SIVANANJAIAHThu Jun 16 1994 19:429
    
    
    They are giving away free copies of TeleChart2000. They did not even
    ask for Shipping & Handiling.
    
    call 1-800-776-4940.
    
    I really like to hear comments about this charting s/w, comparision to
    other such packages; pros & cons.
706.3Yes, BUT.....POBOX::PATELSun Jun 19 1994 15:5719
    It is a good package with the basic technical systems built-in.  
    
    You have to be ready to do the homework of fine tuning the system to
    find your niche.  For eg do you like to use MACD or STOC or OBV or
    Trendlines or Envelopes or Moving Averages.....OR A COMBINATION OF SOME
    OF THE ABOVE.  In short, going in cold into a technical system such as
    TC will not do any good, 'cause, as in my case, it has taken some time
    to feel comfortable - comfortable enough to BET SOME MONEY AND MAKE
    SOME MONEY.  
    
    That is all the insight I can give you at this time - as usual FREE IS
    NOT NECESSARILY GOOD, Is It?.  The data still cost a bunch of money
    compared to the original price of the program ($29 versus $1.50 per
    year of histofical data prices + daily update costs).
    
    Good luck and good trading......
    
    Ken
    
706.4New lower prices with no minimumUCROW::PEARSONThu Jul 28 1994 20:0222
There's a new version available now.  Upgrades are $19 + something or
other.  If you're ordering it for the first time, it's still $29.95
plus S&H I think.

RE: .3
>   That is all the insight I can give you at this time - as usual FREE IS
>   NOT NECESSARILY GOOD, Is It?.  The data still cost a bunch of money
>   compared to the original price of the program ($29 versus $1.50 per
>   year of histofical data prices + daily update costs).

They've lowered the data prices.  A download is $0.39/yr/item.  An item
being a stock, mutual fund, or index.  So 5 years of data for one stock
is $1.95 according to my rusty old brain.  That looks like a very
reasonable price to me.

Updates are still $0.005/day/item, but there's no longer a minimum.  If
you follow only 12 stocks, it costs you $0.06 per day to download the
updates.  However, the maximum charge per day is $0.99.  If you follow
198 items or 4000 items, it only costs you $0.99 to update per day.

I took advantage of the free offer and was happy to get it.  I liked it
well enough to pay for the update.
706.5TC2000 PROFESSIONAL TOOLCARROL::YOUNGwhere is this place in space???Wed Oct 12 1994 20:169
    
    Has anyone gotten Wooden Bros. TC2000 "PROFESSIONAL" series Charting
    tool (TeleChart)???  They are advertising this for $195 for a limited 
    time only and i was wondering what folks thought of this tool compared
    to the low cost version.
    
    thanks,
    		Doug 
    
706.6Professional Version = a definite improvementGAAS::KOZIOLPerestroika+Glasnost=DestroikaThu Oct 13 1994 15:4111
    I got the "PROFESSIONAL" version and I like it so far.
    The Watchlist Organizer allows you to group charts,
    and also one can use/create formulas that select/sort
    charts and put them into seperate groups.
    
    There are some limits on what kinds of formulas you
    can create, but it's still much more powerful than
    the standard version.
    
    /Piotr
    
706.7Avoiding Login after importing own data in TC2000 ?38728::AGUPTAWed Nov 02 1994 20:1521
Hi,

I have been able to import historical data* into TC2000 using MSIMPORT
utility. However, I still have to logon to their database in order to view the
data. Is it possible to avoid that step and the charge associated with this ?
In other words, what does the TC2000 does to the data and how can this be
reproduced without logging on. In other words, what is the format of their
".tcz" file or how do other files in the incoming/outgoing subdirectory effect
the program.

2. If the above is possible, how can I update the new price of the data I had
imported earlier ? Now, I have to bring in the entire history of the stock (and
then logon).

Thank you.

Abhijit

* I used the data from ftp.ai.mit.edu/pub/stocks/results site and wrote a
program to truncate the last column.
    
706.8Printers for TC2000?TOPCHZ::HILDEBRANDJohn Hildebrand @MWOWed Mar 01 1995 18:3326
    re: .7
    
    I would imagine that loading data into TeleChart 2000 without using the
    data downloads from Worden Brothers is fairly difficult.  After all,
    this is where they get most of their cash flow.
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Has any one had any experience with generating print outs from TC2000?
    
    Does TC2000 generate color graphs or only B&W prints?
    
    Also, what printers are compatible with TC2000?
    
    I believe that TC2000 requires one of a few print drivers (IBM
    Proprinter, Epson FX, and a HP something), but I am not sure what
    printers will support this application.
    
    TeleChart seems to be very strong on the screen displays, but
    interfacing to a printer does not appear to be very easy.
    
    Any comments about printing with TeleChart 2000 would be appreciated.
    
    
    - John
    
706.9Utility provided for Metastock data conversionPONY::BONANNOThu Mar 02 1995 21:2849
>    I would imagine that loading data into TeleChart 2000 without using the
>    data downloads from Worden Brothers is fairly difficult.  After all,
>    this is where they get most of their cash flow.

TeleChart comes with a standalone utility (DATACON, I believe is the name) that 
converts to and from Metastock formatted files. You can do conversions
for a single stock or all stocks. You can also update Metastock files from TeleChart
files.

One restriction on moving data into TeleChart is that the ending date has to be
the same as the ending date of your TeleChart data. Metastock in turn can import
data from ASCII files, and I think the Metastock manual lists a Basic program for
reading there data files. I have moved a good amount of data from Dow Jones to 
Metastock to TeleChart via this utility. 

Worden periodically has half price sales for historical data, which makes it about
25 cents for a year of data. You also can get up to a 25% bonus when you deposit
funds in your Worden account, which reduces the cost to about 20 cents per year.
Worden's data is pretty clean and they use crc checks on the modem transfer, 
so the data gets to you clean. One of the problems with some data providers is that
modem glitches end up in your data and are a pain to clean up.

So if you want to spend your time looking at charts and not cleaning up data, and
can restrain your self from downloading every stock you hear a rumor on, Worden's
is pretty good.

Rich

>    
>    Has any one had any experience with generating print outs from TC2000?
>    
>    Does TC2000 generate color graphs or only B&W prints?
>    
>    Also, what printers are compatible with TC2000?
>    
>    I believe that TC2000 requires one of a few print drivers (IBM
>    Proprinter, Epson FX, and a HP something), but I am not sure what
>    printers will support this application.
>    
>    TeleChart seems to be very strong on the screen displays, but
>    interfacing to a printer does not appear to be very easy.
>    
>    Any comments about printing with TeleChart 2000 would be appreciated.

I just use an old NEC dot matrix printer and the B&W charts are ok.
But since you want current data on hundreds of stocks, just use laplink
to load the data on your color laptop and keep it with you. ;)

Rich    
706.10.9 reformatted to fit 80 columnsEVMS::HALLYBFish have no concept of fireFri Mar 03 1995 10:4052
>    I would imagine that loading data into TeleChart 2000 without using the
>    data downloads from Worden Brothers is fairly difficult.  After all,
>    this is where they get most of their cash flow.
    
    TeleChart comes with a standalone utility (DATACON, I believe is the
    name) that  converts to and from Metastock formatted files. You can do
    conversions for a single stock or all stocks. You can also update
    Metastock files from TeleChart files.

    One restriction on moving data into TeleChart is that the ending date
    has to be the same as the ending date of your TeleChart data. Metastock
    in turn can import data from ASCII files, and I think the Metastock
    manual lists a Basic program for reading there data files. I have moved
    a good amount of data from Dow Jones to  Metastock to TeleChart via
    this utility. 

    Worden periodically has half price sales for historical data, which
    makes it about 25 cents for a year of data. You also can get up to a
    25% bonus when you deposit funds in your Worden account, which reduces
    the cost to about 20 cents per year. Worden's data is pretty clean and
    they use crc checks on the modem transfer,  so the data gets to you
    clean. One of the problems with some data providers is that modem
    glitches end up in your data and are a pain to clean up.

    So if you want to spend your time looking at charts and not cleaning up
    data, and can restrain your self from downloading every stock you hear
    a rumor on, Worden's is pretty good.

Rich

>    
>    Has any one had any experience with generating print outs from TC2000?
>    
>    Does TC2000 generate color graphs or only B&W prints?
>    
>    Also, what printers are compatible with TC2000?
>    
>    I believe that TC2000 requires one of a few print drivers (IBM
>    Proprinter, Epson FX, and a HP something), but I am not sure what
>    printers will support this application.
>    
>    TeleChart seems to be very strong on the screen displays, but
>    interfacing to a printer does not appear to be very easy.
>    
>    Any comments about printing with TeleChart 2000 would be appreciated.

I just use an old NEC dot matrix printer and the B&W charts are ok.
But since you want current data on hundreds of stocks, just use laplink
to load the data on your color laptop and keep it with you. ;)

Rich    

706.11more on TC2000 printingTOPCHZ::HILDEBRANDJohn Hildebrand @MWOFri Mar 03 1995 19:2112
    I gave a call to Worden Brothers Inc. technical support line to find
    out what printers they recommended for TeleChart 2000.  The support
    specialist stated that printing from TC2000 was one of the product's
    weak points, but apparently a new MS Windows version of TC2000 is due
    out this fall and it might improve upon the print function by letting
    Windows manage the prints.
    
    WB has no "Official" printer list, but the printer must be either Epson
    dot-matrix or HP laserjet compatible for the current DOS version of
    TC2000.
    
    - JH
706.12Any new info ? DOS vs WFW vs W95 etcDABEAN::NEARYBob Neary Lexington,MassWed Aug 28 1996 18:328
    Any new users of this out there ??
    
    Can you do relative strength charts with this ?
    
    Say DEC  vs HWP   or DIS vs DJIA  or R1000 vs R2000 etc ?
    
    Have they added any 'new' features since orig note 2 yrs ago ?