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Conference nyoss1::market_investing

Title:Market Investing
Moderator:2155::michaud
Created:Thu Jan 23 1992
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1060
Total number of notes:10477

697.0. "Recycling worthless stock certificates" by MARVA1::BUCHMAN (UNIX refugee in a VMS world) Thu Mar 10 1994 21:52

    I am inviting suggestions on creative uses for stock certificates in
    companies which have gone under. I have 1200 shares of Spectra
    Pharmaceutical which I bought at 1 (after a previous high near 10), and
    which later became worthless. It would be particularly nice if the use
    could rub one's nose in the fact that speculating in equities is risky!
    
    Some current ideas:
    - Frame them and hang 'em over my desk (obvious).
    - wrap fish.
    - oragami Christmas ornaments;
    - give them to a small child.
    - wrapping for small gifts.
    - wallpaper or shelf paper.
    - line bird cages or litter boxes.
    - model rocket fuselage.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
697.1Wallpaper for the toiletZENDIA::FLEMMINGFri Mar 11 1994 09:571
    
697.2CPDW::ROSCHFri Mar 11 1994 11:472
    I recall reading about a company in NYC which actually deals in
    worthless certificates. And that's all I remember... !
697.3Put not your trust in princesTLE::JBISHOPFri Mar 11 1994 13:3312
    I have a framed display consisting of a 1923 German million-
    mark bill and an Augustan denarius in silver.  It's kind of a 
    reminder not to trust paper money I put together.
    
    Maybe you could make such displays (stock certificate and some
    small item of real value) and sell them to investors (or their
    relatives) as "reminders"?
    
    There's also giving them to a high school as a interesting teaching
    aid and souvenir for a class learning about stock markets.
    
    		-John Bishop
697.4DECWET::COLGATEWed Mar 16 1994 00:351
    And I have an Aluminum 50-Million mark coin.... not very useful.
697.5MARVA1::BUCHMANUNIX refugee in a VMS worldWed Mar 16 1994 13:449
    A friend of mine has a German stamp from that era... it's either 10
    Billion or 100 billion marks. My dad tells me that German workers used
    to insist on getting paid at the beginning of the day, so they could
    hand the money to their wives, who would shop before the storekeepers
    could mark up their prices at midday.
    
    I'd like to get hold of some Yugoslavian currency. Do they have a $1
    Trillion bill yet? Of course, it might be illegal to get because of
    trade sanctions.
697.6NOTIME::SACKSGerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085Thu Mar 17 1994 18:302
Have you declared the loss on your income tax?  I think the company that "buys"
your worthless stock (you actually pay them) allows you to establish the loss.
697.7Do you need to sell worthless stock?MARVA1::BUCHMANUNIX refugee in a VMS worldFri Mar 18 1994 19:349
    > I think the company that "buys" your
    > worthless stock (you actually pay them) allows you to establish
    > the loss.
    
    Do you really need to "sell" the stock to establish a loss? The company
    has been bankrupt and liquidated for years, so the certificate is worth
    exactly the paper it is printed on. I would think the IRS could
    scarcely dispute its lack of worth. If this isn't the case, maybe I'll
    sell it to my brother for a buck, and *he* can wrap fish with it :-)
697.8You have to sell the stock to establish a lossZENDIA::FLEMMINGFri Mar 18 1994 21:271
    
697.9MRKTNG::BROCKSon of a BeechMon Mar 21 1994 15:072
    You do NOT have to sell to establish a loss. Proof that the stock is
    value-less is sufficient.
697.10ERLANG::CHIUDah Ming ChiuMon Mar 21 1994 20:154
RE: -1
Could you explain how to establish a loss for tax purposes?
Or point me to a note on this?  I am in the unfortunate
position of needing to do this.
697.11You don't have to sell it, but...HELIX::SPIELMANjerry DTN 241-4470Mon Mar 21 1994 21:2312
    Suggestion: Any broker who agrees with you about the worthlessness can
    usually send you a letter explaining this which is enough to make the
    "non-sale" legitimate with the IRS. This applied in a case where there
    was no active transfer agent who could transfer the certificate
    ownership.
    
    However, I have one question: In the past I vaguely recall a rule that
    goes something like this: If a security becomes worthless, then you
    should take the loss in the year that it became worthless. I don't know
    if there is a formal IRS ruling that requires you to abide by that.
    For example, perhaps they want you to file an amended tax for the year
    in which you could (should) have taken the loss.
697.12Claim it in the year it went worthlessANOVAX::JWICKERTWed Mar 23 1994 12:267
    You are correct. You MUST take the loss in the year it became
    worthless. You are not allowed to go back and amend a return to take
    the loss. So if in doubt, take the loss this year (1993 return) and if
    it actually went worthless in 1994 you can then amend the 1993 return
    to remove it, you just can't go back and amend the return to add it.
    
                                         JRW