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Conference nyoss1::market_investing

Title:Market Investing
Moderator:2155::michaud
Created:Thu Jan 23 1992
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1060
Total number of notes:10477

430.0. ""Covered Puts?"" by BRWSTR::WATSON (Life is not a dress rehearsal!!!) Sat Mar 27 1993 00:08

    Anyone ever hear of or think about the concept of "covered puts"?? 
    I'm thinking they'd be something like a covered call, except instead of
    being covered by shares of stock, they'd be covered by cash.

    Let's say that a certain computer company's stock is trading around 45
    in March and that the July 45 puts are selling for $4.  Hopeful
    optimist that you are, you think that the stock is headed up and will
    likely be selling for well over 45 by July.  You also have $4500
    sitting in a money market fund eeking out 3.3% interest.  So you sell
    the put contract, netting $400 (less commision) and keep the $4500
    around just in case the stock goes south.  With any luck the stock goes
    to 46+ and you get to keep the money and earn close to 9% on it over 4
    months for an anualized rate of return of 27%.

    If worse comes to worse and the stock takes a dive, you could buy the
    put back at some point or let it get exercised, take delivery of the 
    underlying shares, hope the stock comes back up later.

    I realize this is riskier than a covered call, as the stock could go to 
    zero and you'd loose all the cash you put up to cover minus the option
    premium, but it's not as risky as the unlimited potential losses from
    short selling, and it's somewhat less risky than buying the stock
    outright as you get the option premium to offset any potential fall in
    share price.

    Any time I've talked to brokers about this the concept seems totally
    foriegn to them.  What do the readers of this conference think; have I
    missed something?  Is this idea more risky than I've projected it to
    be?  Is there some other investment vehicle that amounts to the same
    thing?

    -r-
     
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430.1NOVA::FINNERTYSell high, buy lowMon Mar 29 1993 12:5015
    
    I think it may be misnamed... in what sense are the puts covered except
    by your savings?
    
    If you sold short and then wrote puts on top of that, that might be
    more aptly termed a 'covered put', since you'd collect the put premium,
    and in the event of a decline in price, the loss you'd suffer on the
    put(s) would be partially or completely offset by the gain you'd receive
    from the short(s).  This would be the symmetric opposite of a 'covered
    call'.
    
    It sounds like you've got a naked put and a long... that's a leveraged
    bet that the price will go up.
    
    /Jim             
430.2short selling increases riskBRWSTR::WATSONLife is not a dress rehearsal!!!Mon Mar 29 1993 23:0631
    
    re: .1

    >I think it may be misnamed... in what sense are the puts covered except
    >by your savings?

    Yes, the put is covered by cash, analogous to a call being covered
    by shares of stock.  If a call is exercised, you are obligated to
    deliver stock, if a put is exercised you deliver cash.

    
    >If you sold short and then wrote puts on top of that, that might be
    >more aptly termed a 'covered put', since you'd collect the put premium,
    >and in the event of a decline in price, the loss you'd suffer on the
    >put(s) would be partially or completely offset by the gain you'd receive
    >from the short(s).  This would be the symmetric opposite of a 'covered
    >call'.

    Well sort of.  Except that selling short has potentially unlimited risk
    if the stock increases in price.  It'd be a weird thing, but there's
    nothing to keep a $10 stock from going to a million+ stock.  So your
    risk in selling short and writing a put is infinity minus the put
    premium.  The risk in writing a covered call is limited to the share
    value minus the call premium.

    If you just use cash to cover the put, with no short selling, the
    risk is the cash minus the put premium.  Therefore I suggest that this
    scenario is the opposing counterpart of a covered call.

    -r-
        
430.3Covered optionsVINO::BHATTue Mar 30 1993 04:3451
    
    RE: .0
    
    Calls can be sold:
    
    	- by owning the stock and selling the covered calls against the stock
    	  owned
    	- by buying a lower strike price calls and selling higher priced
    	  calls, or buying a longer expiry date calls and selling a shorter
    	  expiry date calls. These are covered calls.
    	- "uncovered" or "naked", using the cash or other securities to
    	  meet the margin requirements
    
    Similary, puts can be sold
    
    	- by selling the stock (short or already owned as against the box) and
    	  selling the puts with the striking price lower than your selling
    	  price so that if they are exercised you can use it to cover or
    	  replenish the stock which you already sold
    
    	- by buying a higher strike price puts and selling lower priced
    	  puts (see Example 1), or buying a longer expiry date puts and
    	  selling a shorter expiry date puts (see Example 2).
    
    		Example 1: Buy March 45 puts and sell March 40 puts. You
    			   are covered here. If the stock price falls below
    			   $40 and the March 40 puts which you sold get
    			   exercised, you can always exrcise the March 45 puts
    			   which you bought. You get the difference of $5,
    			   minus the price you paid and the commision. If the
    			   price of the stock remains closer to $40 (just above
    			   $40), your March 45 put will still be worth something,
    			   but the one you sold will be worthless at expiration.
    			   If the price stays closer to $45, or above, you lose.
    
    		Example 2: Buy July 45 puts and sell March 45 puts. Again,
    			   you are covered here. Your hope here is that at
    			   the March expiration date, the puts you sold
    			   will be worthless (you can let it expire or buy
    			   it back, and sell April 45, do the same for next
    			   month, etc. if the same situation continues).
    
    	- "uncovered" or "naked", using the cash or other securities to
    	  meet the margin requirements.
    
    
    Hope this clarifies. Again, there are inherent risks in these and there
    is no assurance that you would make profit all the time. The stock
    price may move in the wrong direction and you may lose!
    
    /P.B. Bhat