Conference nyoss1::market_investing

    Yup its true..
    
    Over the last 13 months I've done it twice with no out of pocket $.
    I've drop my % rate from 9.75 to 9.125 and last month I just finished
    again to 8.375.
    
    	I'm going to do it again next week as the rate is down to 7.875
    with no $..
    
    John

    re: Previous two
    
    Would you please mention the company you are dealing with and your
    experience dealing with them?? is there any requirement for minimum
    amount of loan??
    
    Thanks.
    
    Bharat

    Minuteman Mortgage Funding out of Concord Mass. I am very happy with
    there service. Ask for John Richards and he can give you all the info.
    I think min loan is 75k. Mention my name when you talk to John
    
    617-863-0400
    
    They Sell all the loans..

    Minuteman Mortgage has a 30 year floating mortgage, fixed for 7 years
    at 7.25%. I currently have a 30 year fixed at 8.375%. Is it a good
    idea to switch now ?

    Thanks

    Ram

    Co-Operative Bank of Concord also has a 0-cost mortgage.  Last time I
    checked was 7.75% for 15-yr fixed.
    
    L.

    Two things that I learned while shopping for a NO pts NO closings 
    re-finance.
    
    1) ALOT of the mortgage companies will NOT do NO pts NO closings for
       less than a 100K mortgage
    
    2) ALOT of the mortgage companies/banks will not FREEZE your RATE until
       the week of CLOSING.... SO you MAY lose out if it goes up during
       that time.
    
    Bob O.
    

    The Co-Op bank gives two lock options at the time of application.

    	1.) Lock at application time

    	2.) Let the rate float at application time.  A lock may then
    	    be exercised (by phone) any time prior to closing.

    Personally, I hate playing the 'lock' game.  On a recent refinance, I
    chose to lock at application time and then watched the rate drop a
    quarter point. I tried (unsuccessfully) to convince the bank that it
    was in their best interest to give me the lower rate.  After all, I
    reasoned, I'll just turn around and re-fi again (it's not costing me
    anything) somewhere else, and you (the bank) will be out a couple grand
    on the closing costs.

    N.B. With Co-Op bank, you cannot reapply again for 1 year.

    L.

We re-fi'ed with Concord Co-op last fall, and I enjoyed doing business
with them and would recommend them highly.

We did a no-point no closing costs mortgage.  "No closing costs" is a
slight misnomer, though.  There were some costs:

    smoke detector certificate from the town
    FHA water test (we have a well)
    2 days interest overlap while the old loan is being retired and
    the new loan is started.

This cost us about $200, which is still a small amount of money.  Since
we closed with them, rates dropped 1/2 point and we re-fi'ed with another
lender to get the lower rate.  The other lender didn't require a smoke
detector certificate or a water test, and instead of having 2 loans
outstanding (and us paying double interest), they wait until 3 days after
closing (so we can't rescind the transaction) and Fed-Ex the money to
our former lender, thus avoiding any overlapping interest charges.  Total
cost to us was $15.50 Fed-Ex charges.

I don't want to name the other lender here (and please don't ask), because even
though the second re-fi cost us less there was a LOT more aggravation for us. 
I felt a bit guilty for not going with Concord Co-op again, but as pointed out
in a previous note they don't let you re-fi again with them for one year. 

My advice when shopping for a re-fi lender is to ask what tests and
certificates are required, and how they handle the potential overlap
of having 2 loans outstanding.  Also, if you expect to take any cash (equity)
out of your house by doing the refinance, make sure that the lender knows
that and that they tell you any additional restrictions (loan-to-value
ratios that you must meet, for example) up front.  This point is what
caused us the unnecessary aggravation with our second refinance.

Marc

    
    In calling around lately I've noticed a slight upward rise in rates
    compared to last week. Also, just about every o point/o cost program
    I called mentioned that they were requiring you to lock at time of
    application. My hunch is that they are afraid people will walk away
    if the rates swing too high or low for that matter.
    
    mike

> In calling around lately I've noticed a slight upward rise in rates

What are the rates for 0/0 cost financing?

    What is the loan to value ratio for zero cost refinance? If there is no
    apprasial fee does that mean that there is no aprasial? I'm just wondering
    if there is a way to refinance for those of us who now owe more than
    the propery is worth...
    
    Wayne

    You can refinance with as little as 5% equity but you would get hit
    with PMI (private mortgage insurance) which cost about .35% of the loan
    per year. The PMI will go away (if you request it) once you have 20%
    equity in the property.

re: .9

>I don't want to name the other lender here (and please don't ask), because even
>though the second re-fi cost us less there was a LOT more aggravation for us. 
>I felt a bit guilty for not going with Concord Co-op again, but as pointed out
>in a previous note they don't let you re-fi again with them for one year. 

The mandatory 1-year wait period is, I am quite sure, limited to withdrawn 
applications.  A closed loan may be refinanced again at any time without the
waiting period.

re: .10
    
>    In calling around lately I've noticed a slight upward rise in rates
>    compared to last week. Also, just about every o point/o cost program
>    I called mentioned that they were requiring you to lock at time of
>    application. My hunch is that they are afraid people will walk away
>    if the rates swing too high or low for that matter.

Many (most?) 0/0 programs require a refundable deposit (typically .5 pt) up
front, to prevent the "walk away" scenario.

    
    
    rates thus week in Colorado are 7.5% and 0 for convetional 30 year
    fixed rate. Last week it was 7.25 + 0
    
    The papers say the rate increase was triggered by wholesale prices
    moving upwards, meaning inflation be increasing,
    
    Simon

    re .12:
    
    There is indeed an appraisal, but the cost is absorbed by the mortgage
    company or the bank.

re .16

That's what I thought. Thanks...

Wayne

re .13: removal of PMI

I wouldn't assume that the PMI could be removed just by asking for it
when the equity reaches 20%.  I believe it is up to the lender,
and policies vary.  I would recommend asking the lender about
this and getting in writing, if possible, the conditions that
must be met in order for PMI to be removed.

Marc

>
>                      <<< Note 410.9 by BROKE::ZEHNGUT >>>
>                           -< Concord co-op is good >-
>
>
>    2 days interest overlap while the old loan is being retired and
>    the new loan is started.
>

    In my recent closing with Concord there was no interest overlap.  When
    I questioned the lawyer, he told me that it has nothing to do with the
    bank - it's purely a function of how the lawyer chooses to do it (the
    bank uses many different lawyers, typically picking one geographically
    close to the applicant).  If the lawyer is "lazy", then you'll have to
    pay the overlap.  The 'new' bank will get its interest from the moment
    of closing.  No confusion there.  The issue is how quickly the lawyer
    arranges the full payment and discharge of the 'old' mortgage.

    L.

re: Note 410.19

>>                      <<< Note 410.9 by BROKE::ZEHNGUT >>>
>>
>>    2 days interest overlap while the old loan is being retired and
> ...
>                         ...  If the lawyer is "lazy", ..

      I respectfully suggest that "lazy" has nothing to do with it.  The
      lawyer is simply capturin two days interest  in  addition  to  his
      fee.   e.g.  $100,000  @ 10% divided by 365 gives $27.39.  Doesn't
      sound like much, but if the lawyer does  on  closing  a  week  and
      averages this much interst it amounts to $1424.28 per year.

    
    
    re:  PMI.  Our first mortgage was held by a bank that "readjusted" its
    PMI requirements just as we were requesting the removal...It is up to
    the bank to determine if pmi is necessary.
    
    I have a tax question regarding refinancing...we refinanced in 92 and
    paid 1/2 pt and all closing costs, we did not grab any equity....The
    lawyer told me what charges were tax-deductable, but I haven't figured
    out which line to use...Do I report the costs as "interest paid"?? Do
    I amortatize it over the 15 years?  
    
    My taxes are not complicated so I don't want to pay a preparer for this
    one question.  any help would be appreciated.
    
    beth
    

    Interest is deductible.  This includes the "odd day" interest
    calculated for the old load as well as the 'odd day' pre-paid interest
    for the new loan.

    Points are deductible, but must be amortized over the life of the loan. 
    If you have a 15 year refinance, you can deduct 1/15 of the points per
    year.  (On an original mortgage, the points are deductible all at once
    in the year of the closing).

    To my knowledge, no other closing costs are deductible.

    L.

    I've currently got a (almost brand-new, just moved in 7 months ago)
    30-yr fixed mortgage at 7.785% - at the time I thought that was the
    lowest it would ever go. 
    
    I've been talking with a local mortgage company about refinancing, as
    they've got big ads in sunday's paper proclaiming 6.5%, "no cost". 
    According to this guy, the "no cost" part somehow really isn't and the
    difference between 7.875% & 6.5% isn't enough to justify a re-fi. 
    
    He thinks that instead I should go with a 3.875% 30-yr ARM.  The way he
    describes it, it sounds good - 3.875% for the first 12 months, then it
    can be increased no more than 2%/year, no more than 6% total, AND after
    the first increase (potentially to 5.875), I could pay a "small" fee,
    $500-1000, and lock the rate there for the next 29 years.  This would
    cost me $225 appraisal fee and ~3% ($3000) closing costs, which could
    be rolled into the new mortgage.  No PMI would be required.
    
    Now, what questions have I forgotten to ask him, what am I missing?

> Now, what questions have I forgotten to ask him, what am I missing?

	Ask him what the APR is when those fees/costs are figured in.

    >Ask him what the APR is when those fees/costs are figured in.
    
    Hm?  I thought (perhaps incorrectly) that I just took the 3.875% or
    5/875% rate and applied it to (current balance+closing costs). Or are
    you talking about adding the lock-down fee at month 13 and figuring
    that as "interest" and seeing what the effective rate comes to?  Or am
    I completely missing the boat?
    
    Steven

    what is the name and phone # of this company? I would like to call them
    and ask them a few qeustions myself which I will share with the notes
    conf once I get them answered.

    ok, I just got off the phone and it sounds to good to be true and I'll
    be calling my banker to see what he things about this.
    
    	The apr for the 30 yr arm of the 3.875 comes out to be 4.05
    
    Everything that was stated in .23 is the same that I was told. You can
    lock your rate anytime between the 13th month up to the 60th month of
    the loan. I was told the lock in rate would be $250.00
    
    I had just finished re-financing in february of this year. I asked if
    I could use any of the paper work to save money on the closing cost and
    she said yes. They would use the appraisel, the credit report and the
    plot plan which comes out to about $400. I have no idea how they can
    offer this package. What this means is that your 1st year you have a
    30 year loan out at just 3.875 and after 1 year (worst case) is you
    can lock in at 5.875 for the remainder of the loan..
    
    	The loan does not have an early payback penalty or a demand clause
    so I cant see anything wrong but I'm still a bit leary on this...
    
    Any other thoughts out there?

Is the 3.875% rate locked for one year?  Or can they raise it the 2% from the
day of origination?  What state is the place located (404 area code)?  Call the
local better business bureau and find out if there have been any complaints 
lodged.  This sounds too good to be true.

mtb

    The 404 is Atlanta Georgia. I was told the 3.875 is locked for that 
    1st year. I agree this does sound to good to be true but I am waiting
    for 2 call backs with hopefully more info/concerns.

    When they call back, find out what the minimum you must borrow is.
    
    Thanks,
    Julie
    

    
    I have heard of this type of loan as most banks offer it. It is called
    a "convertible" loan. When I inquired about this type of loan (some
    time ago so things may have changed) I was told that you can easily
    convert to a fixed rate at any time after the 1st year of the loan for a 
    small fee. Now here's the "catch":  any time you look at a "fixed" rate it 
    is always at least 1 to 2% higher than an "adjustable" rate for the same
    loan (check the ads in the paper). So if you had this type of loan and 
    deceided to "convert" to a fixed rate after 1 year you would NOT 
    necessarily get your original adjustable rate + 2% for the life of
    the loan  but instead you would get whatever the "fixed" rate is when
    you convert.  For example: suppose today's rates are 3.85% for an ARM and
    6.00% fixed and you take the convertible loan today. You pay 3.85% for
    one year during which the interest rates go up 4%. If you do nothing in 
    year 2 you will pay 5.85% in year 2. If you wanted to convert in year 2
    you would be locking in at 10% NOT at 5.85%. If the rates stayed
    exactly the same in year 2 and you wanted to convert you would be able
    to lock in at 6% because that is the fixed rate at the time you lock
    in.
    I would prefer to go with a "convertible" loan than a plain ARM because
    of the option to lock in if you choose to. The risk is somewhat less 
    than with a straight ARM too because of this option. If you are
    considering this type of loan be sure that you are absolutely clear on 
    what rate you will be getting should you decide to convert. As I said,
    it has been awhile since I inquired about these loans so you would want
    to double check but it was my understanding that when you convert to a 
    fixed rate that's exactly what you get - the current fixed rate. (this
    is still not a bad deal if you can end up with a rate of 7% or less for
    29 years for example)
    
    

    Most arm convertiable loans work the way .10 said they did. The arm
    that is advertising the 3.875 convertable is not the same. I was told
    today that at the end of the 12th month you can convert but ITS NOT a
    2% increase over the 3.875 but they go by what the index margin is.
    
    For exampel. If you locked in to the arm 1 year ago at 3.875 for the
    1st year and today is the beginning of the 13th month of the loan and
    you wanted to convert to a fix rate for the next 29 years you could but
    You would be locking in at 3.875 Plus what todays INDEX MARGIN is which
    is 2.875, add those 2 together and you would have a fixed rate of
    6.75%. (not a bad rate for a 30 yr loan)
    
    	My question is Who knows much about the INDEX MAGIN?

    OOPS TYPO  last message 1st line should be 
        Most arm convertiable loans work the way .32 and not .10

    >I was told
    >today that at the end of the 12th month you can convert but ITS NOT a
    >2% increase over the 3.875 but they go by what the index margin is.
    
    ahHA!  Somehow I knew this was too good to be true.  A friend was
    telling me at lunchtime to watch out for this very thing.
    
    Like MSBCS::HURLEY says, anyone wish to explain INDEX MAGINs?

   >  ahHA!  Somehow I knew this was too good to be true.
    
   Yes, but it still could be a good deal IF the rates stay low for another    
    year or more before starting to climb again. By taking this type of
    loan you would get the low rate of 3.85 for at least 1 year (which would 
    beat the current fixed rates) AND have the option of converting to a fixed 
    rate later if you want to. It all depends on how comfortable you are about
    taking some risk that the rates might go up whether you would want to
    consider this type of loan. If you are considering an ARM, you would
    definitely want to consider a "convertible" loan because it is an ARM
    with an added "feature". 
                             

>    Like MSBCS::HURLEY says, anyone wish to explain INDEX MAGINs?

Last I knew the INDEX MARGIN was defined in the note at the start of the
loan and doesn't change throughout the loan. It's the percent that is added
to the index to get the actual interest rate, typically in the 2 - 2.5
range.

So maybe this 3.875 loan is set up to be convertible to fixed after the
12th month, at an interest rate equal to the current index + the index
margin?

    
    	Is there a difference between the rate quoted for home buyers
    	and refinance owner?  I looked in the paper and it quotes
    	one rate.  But when I call the companies, they quote me a 
    	different rate.  I realize that rates can go up/down on any
    	giving date.
    
    	Can someone tell me if it is wise to refinance a 9.0% note
    	to 7.0% note with five (5) discount and origination points?
    	I figured that I will be saving about $80.00 per month by 
    	doing this.  I'm not sure how long this will take me to recoop
    	from this.
    
    	Any help will greatly appreciated.
    
    	Phil D.
    
    
    	 
    	

    Same co. listed in .27 is offering a fixed rate 30 year conventional loan 
    of 7.25 % with no points and closing costs. Is this the current rate ?
    Sounds incredibly good.
    
    Also, they don't originate or service loans in MA, but work with a
    Shearson-Lehman outfit in Boston who do that for them. Anyone had any
    refinancing experiences with Shearson ? 
    
    Ram

    No experiences with Shearson but they have an 800 # 800-854-5653. I
    just got off the phone and there 30 yr reate is 7.625 with .75 pts.
    D.C.U.'s rate as of 8 this morning was 7.375 with .75 pts

Baybanks is offering a low rate (~ 6%) on it's Home Equity loans with
no closing costs, etc. I've been considering applying for this H E loan.
When it comes through I'll borrow on the H E loan and pay off my home
mortgage. I owe about $32.5K on my mortgage and with the value of
the townhouse at about $100K, so I should qualify for a H E loan of
at least $30K. If I do this then I'll get a "No Cost" refinancing
on my mortgage. I figure I'll save about $1500 in interest costs
(I've been accelerating payments on my principle).

Ed

    
    I called Shearson Mortgage today and their latest fixed rate 30 yr
    mortgages (for refinance) are:
    
            7.5%   1/2 point plus closing costs
            7.625  0   point plus closing costs
    
    I also called Coop Bank of Concord (1-800-551-HOME) 
    
            8.0%   0  points NO CLOSING COSTS
    
               -- Phil
    

I'm going through Coastal Mortgage of Bourne....508-759-6550

7 7/8 no points, no closing cost....can refinance through them anytime

ask for Peter.

/mtb

they eat the pmi premium, and you lock upon application, with of course no app
fee.

/mtb

Just wanted to pass along my experience with Minuteman Funding in Lexington
MA.  They have been terrible to deal with.  For example, they often don't return
phone calls, mail things a week after they say they did, and the day before the
closing they move it out a week as they didn't know the property was in NH.
Give me a break.  They have known the porperty location for two months.  I would
definately not use them.

    on the other hand we just finished with Coastal in Bourne...prompt,
    curtious, and lock in on application.  Closed on time, with no
    problems....two thumbs up, 5 stars, and all the jazz.
    
    
    Michael

I started my refi process last night. I locked in %7.5 30 year fixed with
NO closing costs. This is a true no cost deal.

Call Jeff White at Associated Mortgage, LTD in Tyngsboro, MA for details -
800-649-6690, 508-649-4100.

They also have looser requirements for escrow accounts.

Mark

    Cooperative Bank of Concord has no-points no-closing
    15-year fixed loans as well (recent quote: 7.25%).
    1-800-551-HOME.
    
    You do have to give them $500 to lock the rate, but you
    get it back at closing (ours was rolled into the next
    month's payment).
    
    		-John Bishop

    Check the Boston Globe Real Estate this Sunday. With the null inflation 
    news that came out this week and the drop in interest this week I would
    not be surprised to see adds of 30 year no cost at 7.375 and 15 year
    7.125. I could be wrong but I'll be checking it out. I just finished
    for the 4th time in 2 years june 29th. I"m at 7.875 today but will be
    locking in monday (with who I'm not sure yet) at 7.375??

Andover Bank has the following "no-cost" options available (800-222-2238)

1. Home equity loan at PRIME + 0% for home owners with no
   first mortgage or who would like to pay off their mortgage
   with this loan.
	- advantages: no cost refinancing, liquidity, low monthy
	  payments;
	- disadvantages: highly variable rate; cap is 18%.
   
   This program might be appropriate for someone with 3-6 years left on
   their mortgage. The interest rate risk over that time could be
   manageable.

2. Home equity loan at Prime + 1%. This rate is 0.5% lower than most
   banks for a home equity loan. Normal T&C's appear here.

3. Home equity loan at Prime + 0% for the first year and then
   prime + 1.5%. 


According to the bank, Option 2 is the most popular. But the response
for option 1 was higher then  they expected.

Gim

    Anyone deal with East-West Mortgage in Eastern Mass?  They're pretty
    agressive. 7.125, no points for 30-year fixed.

    I have been quoted to add almost .5% higher on the investment property
    re-fi. Did anybody experienced this same situation? To me, it should be
    the same as any regular mortgage refinancing.

    It's the banks' experience that owner-occupied buildings
    keep their value better (important in the case of foreclosure)
    and have their mortgages paid more reliably.
    
    So investment property pays a higher rate as a risk premium.
    
    		-John Bishop

    	Hi,
    
    	We are thinking of refinancing our Condo.  We are one of those people
    	who owe more than what the property is worth.  We are willing to
    	pay off a chunk of the principle to be able to qualify.  I think
    	it will be good to take advantage of the low interest rates. 
    	We'd love to buy a house, but don't want to carry two mortgages.
    	Even if we rent out the condo, it won't cover the monthly mortgage
    	payments.   So by reducing the mortgage payments  now, it will open 
    	up opportunities, in the future, for us to buy a house and not
        worry about the condo mortgage.
    
    	My question is, Do any of you know which bank will refinance with 
    	5% equity?   I don't have too much money to put into this.  I
        called a few of the banks mentioned in this note, but they all said
    	10% equity.
    
    
    	Thanks,
    	Eunhwa
                   

I just wanted to make a final entry on my refi -

Closing took about 9 weeks - truly no cost, all up front money returned -
very impressed with the closing meeting - I had to make a few inquiries to
make sure the mtg processing was on track - things got a little hetic towards
the closing date, but this was due to the fact that we were leaving the
country on vacation.

All in all things went better than my last refi - no surprises at closing !

Closed on 9/22/93.

Score: B to B+

Mark

PS. Has anyone seen a less than 7% no cost rate lately ?

         <<< SUBWAY::DISK$LIB:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MARKET_INVESTING.NOTE;1 >>>
                             -< Market Investing >-
================================================================================
Note 410.49  Is There Such a Thing as "No Cost" Mortgage Refinancing?   49 of 56
DSSDEV::QUINLAN "Mark Quinlan, Alpha Personal System" 9 lines  16-JUL-1993 10:49
                             -< %7.5 no cost mtg >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I started my refi process last night. I locked in %7.5 30 year fixed with
NO closing costs. This is a true no cost deal.

Call Jeff White at Associated Mortgage, LTD in Tyngsboro, MA for details -
800-649-6690, 508-649-4100.

They also have looser requirements for escrow accounts.

Mark

> PS. Has anyone seen a less than 7% no cost rate lately ?

	I just locked in yesterday at 7.125% (15yr fixed for min.
	loan of $75K).  I'm kinda regreating it already that I
	didn't let it float given the very low inflation news
	yesterday .......... still better than my 8.625 rate
	from two years ago :-)

    
    I had a 6.989% 15yr but I lost the lock because of title problems.
    Those are now fixed and I'm now locked at 7.125% NO pts NO cls
    
    	Salem Five Mortgage 508-832-6212 (Auburn) (don't have the 800#)

    Re .57:
    
    Good to hear of your easy refinance with Associated Mortgage
    (Tyngsboro office).  In January of this year, I refinanced with
    Associated Mortgage (Lynn office).  It did not go smoothly, solely
    because of problems at Associated.  In fact, my loan officer was just
    sentenced to jail for mortgage fraud -- at least that bad apple has
    been removed from the pile.
    

    RE: .58
    
    6.875 %, No Points or closing costs, 15 year mortgage, >$140,000 
    Assumption Mortgage, Burlington, MA
    
    I have not used them, although I've seen them mentioned here.  
    Can anyone comment on Assumption, positive or negative?

>> PS. Has anyone seen a less than 7% no cost rate lately ?
> 	I just locked in yesterday at 7.125% (15yr fixed for min.
> 	loan of $75K).  I'm kinda regreating it already that I
> 	didn't let it float .....

	I'm already regreating it!  I called up and the rate dropped
	to 7% even the day after I applied and locked in :-(((

    
    We just closed on a second refinance with Minuteman Funding, Lexington Ma.
    (617-863-0400). No problems. The first refinace cost $300 ($50 credit 
    check, $250 house appraisal) and this second cost $0 out of pocket.
    We now have a 15 year 6.75% mortgage. We worked with Johnathan White.
    For you NH folks (I live in Hudson NH), Johnathan came to our house 
    and we closed in Merrimack NH.
    
    Rick...
    

>     cost $0 out of pocket.
>     We now have a 15 year 6.75% mortgage.

	That's pretty good!  Do you mind me asking what the loan amount
	was?  I'm guessing to get a rate like that it was a min. of $150k?

    I also had very positive experiences working with Minuteman Funding
    in Lexington. I re-financed twice with them this year.  Quick,
    professional serivce, no hassles, no suprises, no points, no closing costs.
    I got 7.0% 15 yr fixed this month on a $94k loan. My friend got 6.675%
    15 yr fixed no point/no close on a loan over $150k.
    
    I paid a $300 application fee which I got back at closing. I did
    have to pay 1/4 points as bribe money to the bank to not have
    taxes/insurance escrowed. Minuteman resells all their loans and they
    charge you whatever the bank charges to waive escrow.

    
    RE: .64: 
    
    The loan amount was 127K
    
    Rick...

    
    Just a quick note to second a previous recommendation on Coastal
    Mortgage.  My wife and I were expecting our first baby, which arrived
    the Thursday before the closing date.  They were amazing.  Not only
    did they arrange to have the closing at our kitchen table, but they
    resolved several other smaller issue to minimize our cash requirements.
    We ended up buying down the rate by paying points and closing, but they
    financed that portion, so we only had about $300 misc and insurance out
    of pocket.  
    
    By the way, on a monthly basis, we found that financing the points had
    a better NPV than the no points with the higher rate.  Ended up locking
    a 30yr fixed at 6.5%.
    
    Overall, we were very pleased with the serivce at Coastal, right down
    to the hand-written baby card they remembered to send.
    
    Ken          

    I would like to add my positive experiences with Minuteman Funding.
    Since my refinance was under 100K, I wasn't eligible for their
    no points/no closing deal, but I did get no points/$300 closing.
    I was skeptical, but the whole thing really only cost $300 and
    I went from 9.something to 7.625% and enabled me to cut my loan
    from 30 years to 15 years for the same monthly payment.
    Completely painless.

    I dealt with John Richard and Frank Teixeira.

    -dave