Conference nyoss1::market_investing

    
    Grasp a copy of today's Boston Globe, in its business section,
    there's article talking about bottom fisher. It's very interesting
    and you may gain handsomely before Wang exit the bankruptcy court.
    
    Who knows you may make wisest .35 investment in your life !!!!
    
    Michael.. (It's always Zero_Sum game, even in high tech industry)

VOGON news said two days ago Wang may have a negative net worth.  

Moffatt

    If you buy Wang, and they somehow pull thru and it goes up, you pay
    1/3rd to the IRS when you sell.
    
    If you short Wang, and they disappear, you never have to cover the
    short ("terminal short"), and never have to pay the IRS.
    
    I'd say it's more tempting to go the latter at this point.
    

    
    Another interesting development yesterday by Standard and Poor,
    S&P 500 added Sun Microsystems to the S&P 500 index at the close
    of trading Wednesday. 
    Mutual fund that own all the S&P 500 stocks rushed to buy the newly
    added stock. Hence, SUN rose 1 to 26 1/8.
    
    Guess whom was kicked out by S&P 500 yesterday ??
    
    WANG
    
    
    
    
    Michael..
    
    
    
    
    
    

    
    	Thanks for the advice everyone..  I did go ahead and buy 200
    	shares, I figured I'd take a chance on it, after all you never
    	what can happen.  
    
    	This is all new to me, but I have to start somewhere.  Any other
    	suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    
    	Thanks again!!
    
    	Michelle

  Request the certificates from the broker.

  Then...


  You'll have some nice pictures to frame ;-.]

    
    	What exactly do you mean by this?  Nice pictures to frame.
    	
    	Regards,
    
    

  When the company folds and has no real value you at least have the stock
certificates which you can frame.  Many of them are real nice as pictures.

re?: 268.9                     Wang Stock ???????                         9 of 9
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>        -< When there ain't nothin left you still got the certificate >-
>  When the company folds and has no real value you at least have the stock
>certificates which you can frame.  Many of them are real nice as pictures.

Ha ha .. good joke ....

Actually one needs to check the basic value of the underlying stock.

In 1990 (more/less) PNH was around 1 7/8 a share .. but the underlying value
was closer to $10./share. Had PNH been liquidated; thats's the amount each
shareholder would get. Instead, as in all businesses, a few very good buiness
people and accountants found legitimate way to pay the common shareholders less.

Technically, there's more to this than meets the eye, but I udnerstand
this is the general principle. Also the Common Stock shareholders
are the last one's to get paid.


Ce la Vie' .. play in the road with the big and you might not get hurt ..

Wang may be in Ch 11 .. so far they've still got lots and lots of assets.
In the news yesterday was an article about the top sales people cruising 
to Hawaii with their families for a well deserved reward ... 
(Worcester Telegram) ..

/Bob

re .-1

  Look more carefully...  The reason that they filed Chapter 11 is that they
have negative net worth!!!  Yes they have lots of assets but... They have
400M+ long term loans and if their net worth goes below 0 then they are
immediately in default on some of those loans.

  Do your homework..

re: 268.11                    Wang in Chapter 11                       11 of 11
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>400M+ long term loans and if their net worth goes below 0 then they are
>immediately in default on some of those loans.
>
>  Do your homework..

Sounds like excellent advice. This was the similiar situation with PNH.

PNH did have  a lot of longterm debt, and many analystes believed and
said it was a bad investment. One of  the purposes of going into 
bankruptcy is to stiff the lenders into getting next to nothing, while
protecting some of their assets.

PNH succeeded in doing this, as has many S&Ls, along with various
banks, when the US Congress bailed them out 'to protect the small investors'.

I don't *NOT* know WANGS situtation current situation. Please read 
my previous response more carefully, and it should be obvious to 
the casual reader that it is more generic than specific to Wang itself.

A similar situation could arise with Wang ... its not over until the 
last asset is shed, and the last shareholder paid.

re: Las Vegas Gamble

Las vegas guarantees not to pay out more than 85% of the money it takes in.

However, in Stock, it goes only 3 ways: Up, Down, and no change. To me
the stock challenge is much more predictable than Las Vegas where one is 
almost guaranteed to lose "net gain in the long term".

Hey, lighten up .,. this conference is only about opinions, and there
is no opinion in here worth more than another .. and none worth gettng 
hot over ...

Ce la Vie'

/Bob

re: .12
      
      I  would  think  that  mucho  caution  is  in  order when comparng
      bankruptcies among PSNH, S&Ls and WANG.
      
      When  the  ultimate  option  is  having  lots of people do without
      electricity and abandoning a live nuclear power plant, then  there
      is a lot of support for finding some sort of bail out for PSNH.
      
      When  the  ultimate  option  is  having widows and orphans, not to
      mention lots or other people, loose there life savings,  with  all
      the  bad  economic  effects,  then  there  is a lot of support for
      finding some sort of bail out for  S&Ls  --  not  to  mention  the
      obligation of federal insurance on S&Ls.
      
      Do you see any such compelling argument for bailing out WANG?  And
      even if WANG survives  who  knows  what  will  happen  to  current
      stockholders.   I'd  need  lots  more info than I have to consider
      investing in WANG today!

    
    	I heard on the news yesterday that Wang is expecting a profitable
    quarter soon.  (I forget if they said this quarter or next.)  What is
    the sentiment in this notesfile about whether Wang is returning to
    being a viable company?
    
    							-craig

    I also heard on the radio yesterday that Wang's CEO Rich Miller has
    just resigned (or being kicked out by Wang's BOD). The reason is that
    the BOD feels Wang can no longer afford his $800K a year salary. Now,
    Wang is being managed by a three men team formed by its board members. 
    Personally, I think it's about time to fire Miller. When he first took
    over Wang, many people had alot of hope for him in helping to turn Wang
    around. But, he brought Wang from bad to worse - all the way to Chapter
    11. Now, given that wang had/has some serious problems. But, he had his
    chance to give his best shot at it and he failed miserably. For a
    company whose stock is at 7/16 per share, $800K/yr is alot of savings. 
    Maybe, just maybe this new management team can do some magic to pull
    Wang out of Chapter 11. Is it time to buy Wang stocks now? I am not so
    sure. Wang has lost alot of ground during its tough years. Can they get
    their customer base back? But, how much can you loose at 7/16 a share?   
    
    Mike

> But, how much can you loose at 7/16 a share?  

All of your money, and more.  If Wang goes under, you'll be left with worthless
stock, which, to claim as a capital loss, you would be required you to sell,
I believe.  Then you'll have to pay someone to buy the worthless shares.  There
are companies who will buy worthless stock from you just so you can claim the
loss on your taxes.

John Piekos

    The IRS will allow a loss on a worthless stock if you can prove it's
    worthless. A letter from the company stating this will do (fat chance
    of getting one though) or you can refer to the "Capital  Changes
    Reporter". If they say the stock is worthless, the IRS will accept this
    as proof. Only two places I know of, so far, that have the "Capital
    Changes Reporter" are Worcester and Boston libraries. Another reference
    the IRS will allow is the "National Stock Summary". I have not been
    able to locate this book anywhere. Anyone else have any additional
    information as to where these books can be found?
    
    The above information comes directly from the IRS. I called twice to
    verify that the information was correct and got the same information
    both times. Sometimes the IRS is consistent!
    
    Ray

    Although it's contrary to the sentiment here, any suggestions
    as to discount brokers to use to buy a bit of Wang?  With
    the stock at $0.25, a per-share commission will kill you...

    Thanks.

    	- Lee

    
    	Re: .18
    
    	Minor nit -- I think Wang B is trading at around $.50 (unless it
    really dropped today).
    
    							-craig

    Question, what are the products that Wang still sells?  Anyone know?

    Wang is now in the PC market.  It sells both PC hardware and 
    office automation software.  It has retired its proprietary
    systems.  I know nothing about its software but I do know
    this issue of PC Magazine rated their PC hardware poorly.
    BTW, DEC was rated as one of the top seven PC vendors.  We
    got excellent ratings from PC Magazine subscribers.  We
    also have the biggest rating jump since PC Magazine's
    last survey (9 months ago).
    
    I personally wouldn't buy Wang now.  I think they still
    have a long way to go.
    
    Wendy