Conference nyoss1::market_investing

    The books have lots of good info and are *lots* cheaper than the
    'seminar tapes' that basically (as I understand it) contain the same
    info. He does give lots of good tax reducing tips, several of which
    I've successfully put into action. The latest one also has tips on how
    to save money when purchasing a car. FWIW, I found the latest one "More
    Wealth Without Risk" at a local wholesale club for $12 vs. $24 at a
    regular bookstore.
    
    If you attend one of the free seminars (which pitch their video tapes)
    you'll be contacted soon afterward by phone with a *very* high pressure
    sales pitch to enroll for some kind of 'investment advice' service
    which lets you call your 'personal adviser' anytime to discuss your
    financial matters. They affer advice on stocks, binds, real estate,
    etc. At ~$2K/year, I told 'em thanks but no thanks!
    
    I think that the best piece of advice they could offer is for you to
    buy and read the book rather than the video tapes. It would save you
    nearly $500!!! :-)
    
    Harry
    

I saved almost $400.00 in insurance premiums for house and car by following the 
guidelines in the book. The agent I dealt with wanted to know where I got 
my information from, so I told him "Wealth without risk". He went out and 
bought his on copy. I would also advise the same as .1. You can do it 
yourself with a little education.
    <<< Note 67.1 by HSOMAI::HARDMAN "Life's too short to drive a Honda" >>>
                   -< I think the books are worth the bucks >-

    The books have lots of good info and are *lots* cheaper than the
    'seminar tapes' that basically (as I understand it) contain the same
    info. He does give lots of good tax reducing tips, several of which
    I've successfully put into action. The latest one also has tips on how
    to save money when purchasing a car. FWIW, I found the latest one "More
    Wealth Without Risk" at a local wholesale club for $12 vs. $24 at a
    regular bookstore.
    
    If you attend one of the free seminars (which pitch their video tapes)
    you'll be contacted soon afterward by phone with a *very* high pressure
    sales pitch to enroll for some kind of 'investment advice' service
    which lets you call your 'personal adviser' anytime to discuss your
    financial matters. They affer advice on stocks, binds, real estate,
    etc. At ~$2K/year, I told 'em thanks but no thanks!
    
    I think that the best piece of advice they could offer is for you to
    buy and read the book rather than the video tapes. It would save you
    nearly $500!!! :-)
    
    Harry
    

	I bought his second book called "Financial Self Defense" and
	save some money on car insurance; I was impressed and purchased
	the tapes for about $500.  I used the information enough to
	pay for the price of the tapes and more.  There is also a quarterly
	membership fee of $20/quarter; you get a monthly newsletter that
	contains lots of hype, testimonials, and some reasonable financial
	advice.  Like the previous replies say, everything in the tapes
	is in the books.  In fact, the tapes come with video tapes; the
	video tapes contain the same information as the tapes.  As a
	starting point to learning how to manage your money, these
	materials are good.  However, don't waste your money on the
	tapes because the books are sufficient.

	He sells other more expensive courses like the real estate
	investment course he sells for about $1100.  You can really pour
	a lot of your money into CJG strategies, but I think a library
	or local bookstore can teach you the same information at a much
	smaller price.


	Dennis

    One thing to consider about his insurance tips. My dad has been in the
    insurance business for quite a number of years. I asked him about the
    'tip' that says to drop your uninsured motorist coverage, because you
    already have collision coverage and medical coverage. He told me about
    the things that uninsured motorist covers that isn't in your other
    coverage. Things like maid, cook and lawn service are paid for while
    you're unable to perform these tasks, as well as several other
    not-so-obvious benefits that Givens has apparently overlooked. 
    
    With all the uninsured (and illegal alien) Mexicans drving around
    Texas, (Gov't figures around 45% of the drivers in Texas are
    uninsured!) I've kept my coverage. BTW, they have just passed new laws
    here to crack down on the folks that have no insurance. Perhaps once
    more of the population is paying premiums, rates will drop a bit.
    Nah.... ;-)
    
    Harry
    

I borrowed a set of the videotapes from a friend of mine who swears by them.
Since Givens is a born salesman, he can get you really fired up about certain
strategies he suggests.  Some of the stuff he tells you might be easier said 
than done.  The one that is very much oversimplified in my opinion, is the way
Givens suggests for parents to pay for some college costs.- Buy a house 
near your kid's college campus and rent out rooms to defray mortgage costs.  
Sounds so easy, but there is a lot more complexity than just collecting rent 
checks and building equity.  There were also some things about buying a 
car- like "refuse to pay for dealer prep" - a sure way to get a knowing smirk 
from your friendly car dealer.

Most of what he says makes sense, I suggest buying the books, and separate the
"meat" from Givens infectious hype in the videos. 

Gary
 

                                        
    There's another whole note or 3 in the old Investing notesfile.
    
    
    I also strongly suggest getting the books from the library for free
    rather than $500 for video tapes.
    
    
    Tim
    
    PS  Got one of the books for my Dad for Christmas and now that's all
    he talks about every time I see him!

At the Wholesale Clubs, like BJ's and Wholesale Depot, I've seen
two books of his for about $13 each... 

Jim

     Re .5
>checks and building equity.  There were also some things about buying a 
>car- like "refuse to pay for dealer prep" - a sure way to get a knowing smirk 
>from your friendly car dealer.
    
    
    I've refused to pay dealer prep and it worked just fine. I waited until
    we were doing the financial papers and asked about the 'extra' $249 for
    the  'consumer protection package'. The dealer said "We add that to all
    the cars we sell". When they refused to remove it, I said "See ya!" and
    started walking out of the office. Less than 30 seconds later the
    computer was spiiting out new forms with the $249 removed! (Actually, I
    think it was $263 total, since they added the $249 to the value of the
    trade in, which reduced the sales tax owed on the difference! :-)
    
    Harry
    

    Here is another vote for the books.
    
    For someone just getting started in financial planning, I found the
    books to be a tremendous help, especially his explanations of financial
    matters in simple layman terms. Go for it.
    
    However, I found that as I became more financially educated some of his
    advice did seem a bit oversimplified (ie. I still question his
    money-movement investment strategy).  
    
    However this detracts very little from the overall benefit of so many of 
    his financial strategies. And you get a good education at the same
    time.
    
    CV
    
    

    
    If the books do nothing else for a person but motivate them to set some
    personal financial goals they are worth while.  All money and investing
    strategies are not designed for everyone alike.  But we can all use a
    good plan, not necessarily requiring that we have a hired 3rd party
    CFP, to help us take advantage of the money and investing opportunities
    that fit our individual comfort level.
    

    Givens was on Larry King Live a few weeks ago and I caught about 10
    minutes of it.  He seemed to have an evangelistic style that really got
    you worked up.  After checking this note, I think I'll go buy the book. 
    A lot of what I heard in the 10 minutes made real sense....
    
    

    Anyone attend the free Charles Givens seminar in Worcester MA. this
    weekend? My brother attended and said that he is now offering some
    money management services. Anyone sign up?
    
    Rick L.
                                                                  
    

I believe his organization has always offered those services.  Buy
his book, that's all you should need....  

    
    I agree with .-1 100%.  Please just buy the book!  I bought the tapes,
    video, etc, when I was "financially an infant".  They cost about $500
    or less depending on if you get a discount.  Everything in the tapes
    and notebook is in the books you can buy at the bookstore.  There are
    also dozens of good books you can buy for cheaper than what you'll
    spend on his materials.
    
    Dennis

In the book Financial Self Defense, Givens refers to the Charles J
Givens organization and gives a phone number to call if you want to
join.  All it says that you get is a monthly newsletter.

Has anyone joined his organization?
What does it cost and what do you get?
Is it worth it?

 - Al

                             JUST A WORD OF CAUTION
 
 
 Hi Fellow noters
 
    Last week in the Union News here in the Springfield area there was an 
 article about Charles J. Givens Jr. It was titled:
 
 "Wealth without risk" guru leaves his followers in lurch
 
 It proceeded to describe the situation of a married couple which attended the 
 seminar in July 1989, sponsored by C J Givevns Jr. and that they believed they 
 were building a life.  Ron then a factory worker earned $33,000 in Clear 
 Rapids, Iowa.  His wife Sally stayed at home with the kids.
 
    They didn't see the master himself, but heard the clone - son Charles III, 
 billed as  "following in his fathers footsteps as America's leading educator."  
 
    Inspired by Charles III's motivational talk, and by the dream of building 
 wealth, Ron and Sally proceeded to join the CJG organization for $400 and get 
 its finical books and tapes.  Following its advice, the couple canceled their 
 $20,000 uninsured motorist policy - derided by Givens as "auto insurance you 
 don't need" (even though it was costing them just $8.40 a year).  They also
 decided to let a $50,000 cash value  universal life insurance lapse (it cost 
 $396 a year, including a $50,000 term rider for the wife Sally).  Givens has 
 called universal life "without exception, deceptive."
 
    Today Ron is dead, killed in an auto accident by a man who was driving 
 uninsured.  The wife Sally was left with around $55,000 on term insurance 
 benefit from the husbands employer to raise three children.  Last month a jury 
 in Cedar Rapids decided that the family had been victims of fraudulent 
 misrepresentation by both the Givenses and their organization.  The next part 
 of the trial coming up in May 12, will determine what the defendants will have 
 to pay.  Givens testified on the stand that if the family followed his 
 strategies correctly, they'd have been ahead.  When they dropped their other 
 insurance policy they should have replaced it with additional term insurance.
 
    The jurors, however, found that both Givens, father and son, weren't 
 qualified to serve as expert insurance advisers and had made false statements 
 about the family's policy.  Charles III, they found, failed to disclose that 
 their existing life insurance should be kept until new policies were obtained. 
 Their lawyer says that that level of detail normally wouldn't be provided in 
 the initial lecture.  Whether the Givens appeal, he adds, depends on what the 
 jury decides in May.
 
    One reason the family relied so strongly on Givens Jr's advice to drop 
 their coverage, Sally testified, is the rags to riches story he tells about 
 his past.  He claims that as a young man, he made three separate million 
 dollar fortunes - one in a music-business conglomerate, one in stocks and one 
 in a luxurious yacht club.  He lost them all, he says, because of bad advice 
 from financial professionals.  He says that when he made his forth and final 
 fortune - in "leveraged business and real-estate investments" - he retired in 
 order to spend his time teaching others how to succeed.
 
    The Iowa jurors concluded that the story was false.  Givens' former partner 
 in the music business, as well as the person who tried (and failed) to sell 
 him land for his yacht club, both testified that no million dollar fortune 
 existed nor, for that matter, did a functioning conglomerate or club.  Givens 
 conceded at the trial that "a large part" of his wealth had in fact come from 
 selling get-rich seminars and literature.  His lawyer says that, as a result 
 of the jury's decision, Givens will now say "I lost everything I had three 
 times," instead of saying he lost $1 million.
 
    Uninsured motorist insurance pays if you're hit by an uninsured driver 
 who's at fault.  Givens' rap on these policies is that they're "duplicate 
 coverage" high priced (if you call an $8.40 expenditure a high price) and 
 waste of money.  Supposedly, the cost of your injuries will be covered by your 
 existing life, disability and health insurance.  But few people have enough of 
 such coverage, especially to cover the risk of becoming disabled for life.  In 
 Iowa, as in many other states an uninsured motorist policy covers other 
 economic losses, such as the lifetime income sally and the children have now 
 been deprived of.
 
    Givens rap on universal life is that you'll make more money with a 
 combination of term insurance and other investments.  Sometimes that's true 
 but sometimes not, and Givens doesn't discriminate.  One thing for sure: 
 Givens can make money if you follow his advice.  He advises his followers to 
 buy term policies and tax-deferred annuities through the Insurance Clearing 
 house, in which he has a financial interest.
 
    Another lawsuit has been filed against Givens in Indiana, also by a 
 follower who canceled his uninsured motorist coverage and lived to regret it.  
 "Wealth without risk" is an empty promise, from a man who, the jury says, 
 hasn't been telling the whole truth.
 
 
 Reprinted without permission
 
 Frank
    

    The man that died in the auto accident dropped his Universal
    Life policy and failed to replace it with term (which is clearly
    written in Givens' book).  He had dropped his Universal Life
    8 months before he was killed in the auto accident.  You would
    think that was enough time to get a new policy???
    
    For those of you that don't know, Alan Press (president of 
    Guardian Life) and Charles Givens have been at each others throats
    in Givens' newsletter and Press' newsletter for many months.  Sounds 
    like Press finally got something he could go after Givens with...
	
    Where's all the people that went to an investment seminar, put
    money into funds and have lost some of it???  Can they sue too???
    Lawyers.....
    

    
    I think the important aspect of this trial is not the blind faith
    and lack of execution of Givens' "plan", or that a tragedy befell this
    poor family but that Givens, like most other get-rich-with-me people
    are mis-representing themselves and thier product. The FCC just ran
    Dave Del Dotto off the air for "mis-representations" as well.
    
    Bob

    Ok folks.  Who's a Givens member (past or present).  Fess up.
    Who's read his book(s)?  Anyone find his information misrepresented?
    I've only skimmed through a few of his books and found nothing
    misreprented in it?

    This weeks TIME [or is it Newsweek] has a GREAT story on Givens. 
    According to the story he's exaggerated his background [lied like hell]
    and never did one-tenth of what he said he did, or so exaggerated his
    life story that it bears no resemblence to reality. 

    You've got to be really astute and want badly to succeed in order for
    any advise given at such a seminar to be of any value. How many of
    these hucksters make that clear right up front? Not many. That cuts in
    to their profit. I personally hope the jury makes Givens pay a bundle!
    
    Ken

    I went to the "FREE" seminar held in Lowell Mass last night. I  agree
    that there is lots of info provided but I was shocked at the Price.
    There package now which conists of I think it was 32 planning systems
    for financial wealth comes to U READY...
    
    
    
    		$2,495 
    
    
    I have 19 of the topics written down so here they are..
    
    1. Financial Library ( books, tapes etc.)
    
    2. Six telephone hotlines to answer any question you have.
    
    3. Success insight every month (monthly newsletter)
    4. Family Financial Profile.
    5. Personal Member Manager (A financial specialist who is assigned to
    you)
    6. Investment Analysis
    7. Insurance Review 
    8. Mortgage refinance Analysis and Clearinghouse.
    9. All three major credit reports.
    10. Real estate workshops
    11. business success symposiums
    12 Financial Planning Career Seminars
    13. Discont buying benefits Package
    14. Tax preparation/tax planning (they do your taxes 1st three years)
    15. His/her wills
    16. Durable power of Attorney
    17. living trusts
    18. New member Activation kit.
    19. Year statement of Accomplishment
    
    The payment consist of a $395 down and $175 per month for 1 year. They
    $2495 covers you for 3 years. If you want to remain a memeber after the
    3rd year the charge is $25 per year.
    
    	They do have a money back gaurentee that stats that if they can not
    save you $100 per month of what your expenses are now that the will
    give you back the $2495 after using there methods for 25 months.
    
    Sorry for any typo's in this reply but my fingers are going as fast as
    they can..
    
    
    So what are the thoughts out there now??

Given's is currently under indictment regarding this program....walk away.

michael

    Why is he under indictment with this program?

apprently for not honoring the money back guarantee.  The "trained" consultants
were trained to stall the customers untill after the time period for refunds
were up.  This report was on the radio just the other day.  Does anyone know
if there is a place to call to find more "offical" news...ie. consumer affairs
office or something?

/michael

oh, and the other thing I remember was that he mis-represented how he made his
fortune....apparently he's made most of his money.....you guessed it....selling
the Charles J. Givens finanial  program!

/mtb

try calling the better bus. bureau for the city where that place is... i've
done this for 'questionable' companies in the past...

    Question:  Does somebody have a ball park figure what it would cost to
    go out and get a will and a trust drawn up? This is part of his package
    and I'm trying to weigh everything before I decide. I'll admit I'm
    playing with fire at them moment as I have no will or trust and I do
    have a wife and 2 kids. Its on the top of my "list to do things" this 
    year.

    A simple will, along the lines of "all to my wife" runs
    about $100 or less; simple trusts around $300.
    
    If your guru is advising more complex arrangements, then
    the cost will go up.
    
    By the way, it's worth asking for a better rate if you're
    doing two wills (husband and wife) and a trust at the same
    time.  Quantity discount sometimes works!  
    
    		-John Bishop

    
    Given's tapes and advisors will not offer you much more than the books
    he has in the market. Get them from your library and go through them.
    Remember that his advice is extremely aggressive and in some instances
    (as some people have claimed) pushes the boundries of the law.
    
      His newsletter is mostly a 6-8 page description of how his beautiful 
    wife is the object of everyone's envy and how how he lives his life as 
    a fairy tale ... (just my opinion; and I am not kidding). His wife also 
    writes articles which educate you on things like how long should your 
    tie be and how it should match with the type of collar on your designer 
    suit.
    
      You would be much better off investing $2K in a go mutual fund
    and buying a few books with the remaining $0.5K or so ! Just my 
    opinion.
    
     Nitin
      

	All of the Givens materials are  O V E R P R I C E D  -- I know, I
	bought them.  Long ago, I knew nothing about finances and wanted
	very much to make more money or to be able to say "Yes, I invest".

	I bought his binder with investment information in it including
	some cassette tapes and a video tape.  They were useful.  The cost
	was about ~$500.  I said that I'll buy it if I could make my money
	back -- I did and then some.  Then I went to the bookstore and
	saw his books (about ~30 a piece) and found that everything I
	learned in the ~$500 package I could have learned from the books.

	I called the hotline (always very busy and hard to get through).
	I paid the membership $20 quarterly (conveniently taken from your
	checking account automatically); these got me nothing.  After two
	quarters, I became an inactive member.  I no longer receive the
	newsletter or pay the quarterly $20.

	DO NOT buy anything from this organization.  You can get the info
	elsewhere (as noted in the previous replies).  The only added value
	of the binder is the cassette tapes you can listen to on your way
	to work (if you commute a lot, this is very, very useful).  I think
	I got my money's worth out of it only because I was able to listen
	while I drive.

	If anyone wants the tapes, I will sell them at a fraction of the
	cost -- I no longer need them.  But, again, I recommend only the
	books -- and please understand the information before you take
	his advice.  For example, he will say make your deductible on your
	car insurance the maximum; if you cannot afford the large deductible,
	don't do it!  Again, make sure you understand the implications of
	his advice before doing anything.  And again, don't buy anything from
	this organization.

	Dennis