Conference noted::sf

Ahhh...poor kid.  Some of us don't have a lot of time to contribute
to this notesfile.

Anyway, the next long book that I'm going to read will probably be
_The_Forever_War_.  It has been recommended several times earlier.
Does anyone know if there are any sections in it that aren't suitable
for young adults?  

I recently finished _Titan_, which was a pretty good book, but had a 
pretty bad rape scene and quite a bit of sex sprinkled in.  If you
don't mind that sort of stuff, you might want to tote that along to
school.

There are also notes further back that contain loads of suggestions.
Mostly under note titles like '10 favorite SF books'.  You might also
want to try SF collections, like SF Hall of Fame volume I, II, etc.

			Barbara

The Gandalara Cycle is a series of books by Randall Garrett and Vicki 
Ann Heydron.  The series, so far:

	The Steel of Raithskar
	The Glass of Dyskornis
	The Bronze of Eddarta
	The Well of Darkness
	The Search for Ka

and coming in January:

	Return to Eddarta

While not up to Tolkien standards, it's a pretty interesting set of 
books.  I like the premise of waking up in someone elses body, and 
finding out that the body is not quite human. The cats in the book would 
give Corky the willies! (Sorry, if you don't read SOAPBOX you won't 
appreciate the joke).

	I Would suggest BATTLEFIELD EARTH by L. Ron Hubbard.  It is an 800
page EPIC that is very fast moving.  One is not only tempted not to put the
book down, one doesn't!  Everyone should read this book (there is even a school
somewhere in CA that has made it mandatory reading).

			Fred Hommel  VLNVAX::FHOMMEL

re:.1
	Gee, I would never have thought of THE FOREVER WAR as a long book.
Anyways, it does have some sex in it, but then, you'd be surprised by what's
in young adult books these days (no, not *graphic* sex, but sex isn't exactly
ignored, either).

Looking for long books, BATTLEFIELD EARTH is certainly a suggestion, though
I don't know how good it is. DUNE, LORD OF LIGHT, and MOTE IN GOD'S EYE are
all long and very good. And then there's LORD VALENTINE'S CASTLE, MAJIPOOR
CHRONCICLES, and VALENTINE PONTIFEX, all by Robert Silverberg. Also THE SNOW
QUEEN by Joan Vinge. David Brin's STARTIDE RISING is pretty long and very
good; it won both the Hugo and Nebula Awards as Best SF Novel of 1983 (his
previous book SUNDIVER isn't too bad, either).

Last, but not least, Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series is a rather nice
blend of sf and fantasy. Some of them are quite long (too long, as some fans
would say) and make for interesting reading. Many of her books are quite
frank when it comes to sex, even homosexuality, so be warned.

--- jerry

Oh, almost forgot. DUNE is by Frank Herbert, LORD OF LIGHT by Roger Zelazny,
and MOTE IN GOD'S EYE by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle.

--- jerry

		If you want a long book.
		A book you may need to read twice...should read twice.
		I would suggest "stand on zanzibar" by john brunner.
		An excellent book.
		Just enough in the future to make it interesting.
		Not close enough to make it scary.
		And enough action to make you head spin.

		fantasy? How about Robert L Forwards Xanth novels?
		There are at last count 6.
		Or the Blue Adept novels (same author) @3 books.
		They are rather funny as well as action packed.
		Or spend a couple of bucks and take a chance.
		But don't get any Hienlien he's a bore.
		
		Oops..... The Xanth novels and Blue Adept were
		by Piers Anthony....sorry, Forward wrote a good
		one though Dragons Egg..really far-out book!


		John

	Two books that certainly make on length, but are only borderline SF:

	The Stand
	   by Stephen King        - I am a sucker for "after the end of
				    civilization" books and this is one
				    best.  Sex = PG

	Lucifer's Hammer
	   by Niven and Pournelle - This is another, and one of my favorites.
			

	If you like fantasy/horror, you might try two other books by King:

		The Shining (his best book)
		'Salem's Lot (sex = PG+)

bob

		I noted that a lot of you seem to place "ratings"
	on the books you are reccomending. Please don't. If you
	don't realize it, a lot of extremely good books have "X"
	rated scenes in them. Someone in my Intro file said I was 
	a mature 13 year old...
	
			Well, hey I guess well ya know........

					you know me by this time

	Hi again, I just remembered the set by Robert Lynn Asprin
			Hit or Myth.
				   (Thats what the book club edition is)
	VERY, VERY funny.

			Fred Hommel (VLNVAX::FHOMMEL)

    Julian May's Pliocene Exile Saga is good and consists of 4 long books.

   The many Colored Land
   The Golden Torch
   The Nonborn King 
   The Adversary
  
   (the first two may be in the wrong order.  I got them in an SF book club
combined edition.)

    Also Andre' Norton's witch world series is good.  The individual books 
are not long but there are 5 of them in the series (plus others set in the same
world.)  The ones I can remember of the main 5 are: Witchworld, Web of the 
witchworld, Three against the witchworld, the Warlock of the witchworld, 
and the soceress of the witchworld.  (How about that? I remembered them all!)
They are science fantasy and not as much into magic as you might think from the
titles.  I enjoyed them a lot.  I also liked Andre's early science fiction 
writing.  The only titles I can think of right now are Forerunner Foray, 
the Crystal Gryphon, and the Zero Stone.  I don't feel that her recent stuff
has lived up to the promise of her early works but her early works are hard
to beat, especially if you like cats and/or are intrigued by ESP.

    Don't listen to that heathen who said not to bother with Heinlein.  
Heinlein was the first SF author I ran across.  I read everything I could find 
by him and much of my deep love for SF springs from the introduction that he
gave me to it.  His works tend to fall into 2 categories.  One is humor/action
(sometimes known as his juvenile novels.  Don't let this fool you, I still go
back and read and enjoy these from time to time.  And I'm 10 years older than 
you.)  The others are more political(some say too political) and often have 
less action.  There are a few that fall between these categories.  Ones from 
the first category would be:
   Space Cadet          Time For the Stars       Red Planet
   The Rolling Stones   Between PLanets          Citizen of the Galaxy
   Have Spacesuit, Will Travel
These all have young heros who are usually "mature" their age or are prodigies 
in way or another.  I whole-heartedly reccomend these to you.  Ones that fall 
into neither category but that reccomend are The Moon is a Harsh Mistress,
Double Star, Puppet Masters and Orphans of the Sky. 
   In the political category, I hesitate to reccomend anything other than
Stranger in a Strange Land, not because of your age but because people's 
opinions about these books vary so much.
   Oops!  Forgot a good one, Tunnel in the Sky, the 2nd SF book I ever read.

   Gosh, I'd forgotten all this vintage Heinlein.  I'll have to leave the 
"New, unread" stack alone for a while, while I go reread some of this stuff.

tlh
"ask and ye shall receive"

	Good job, Trace.

	Don't forget "Farmer in the Sky".

bob

P.S.	I am 28 years older than Sam and I still reread RAH's "juveniles".

*Great* job, trace.  Couldn't agree more.  I'm 20 years older than Sam
(great way to measure...) and I also read the Heinlein "juveniles"
from time to time.  But you left out the best one of all:  "The Star
Beast."  Oh, and I read "Stranger In a Strange Land" when I was 11...

It's funny -- I regard the Norton books you recommend as "not living
up to her early promise."  I'd recommend "Storm Over Warlock," "The
Time Traders," "Galactic Derelict," and the "Sargasso of Space" series,
all by Andre (Alice Mary) Norton.

JP

You might try _Gameplayers of Zan_ by Marion Zimmer Bradley (I think).
I don't recall seeing that mentioned anywhere else in this Notesfile.

Jim Stratton

P.S. Hey, isn't Sam at the ``golden age of science fiction''?

Well, I'm 18 years older than Sam(13), and I don't read any of Heinlein's
juvies (though I will say that I fondly remember SPACE CADET and HAVE SPACE
SUIT, WILL TRAVEL as two of the first "real" sf books I ever read). Just so
you won't think I'm an old curmudgeon, I'll mention that I do read a fair
amount of young adult sf & fantasy. By the way, oddly enough, I've never
read *any* Andre Norton.
	As far as Heinlein's "adult" books, my favorite, by a wide margin,
is GLORY ROAD.

--- jerry

Speaking of Marrion Zimmer Bradley, her series set on Pern, (The Dragon riders 
series) is a group of stories which are well tied together and usually told 
from the viewpoint of a different person for each book. Some of them (like 
Dragonsinger and Dragondrums) are based on the point of view of the younger 
generation. I find them books which are very hard to put down once started.

	/s/	Bob

Oops!  Anne McCaffery did the Dragonrider and Dragondrum series.  Bradley
did the Darkover novels!

KMcC

  
Thanks for correcting that Mccarthy.

  One more correction.  Bradley did not write Gameplayers of Zan.  It was
written by M.A. Foster (I think... It's been a while.)  One that Bradley did
write is House Between Worlds (Or "The House between Worlds" or is it "the
House between the Worlds"...?)  Anyway, It's good whatever it is.

As far as the Norton books that somebody (I forget who) named as good,  I 
haven't read those so I wouldn't know if they are even better than the ones I 
liked or not.  The very recent ones like Zarasthor's Bane (spelling?) and 
especially Dragon Magic
were not good at all. I was very disappointed.

tlh

McCaffrey's Pern series are more commonly (in my experience) referred to
as "the Dragonrider series" and the "Harper Hall series" -- "Dragondrums"
is one installment of the latter.  Ideally they should be read with the
first two Dragonrider books first, then the first two Harper Hall, then
White Dragon (the third Dragonrider).  Not having read the 4th Dragonrider
or 3rd Harper Hall installments (shame on me!), I'm not sure where either 
fits in, chronologically.

ANYTHING by Heinlein before "I Will Fear No Evil" (it and "Time Enough
For Love" were "interesting" [the latter seemed better, but that may only
be because I've always been a Lazarus Long fan], but I wouldn't reread
them or recommend them to anyone else: I haven't tried Friday or JOB yet).

I always loved Andre Norton's stuff, though I haven't tried any of her
recent works.  My favorites were always "Star Rangers" (or "The Last
Planetfall", depending on what edition you run into), "Storm Over Warlock",
and "Ordeal in Otherwhere" (a sequel to "Storm Over Warlock").  Then there
was the Time Traders series ("Time Traders", "A Key Out of Time", and several
others I can't remember).  A lot of her stories, like Niven's, Pournelle's,
and some other writers', take place in a consistent, well worked out universe,
even when they are not actually part of a series.  Hers features such creatures
as the Zacathians (think of lizard-evolved Mr. Spocks) [one of my favorite
alien species], and many unusual human breeds adapted for various planets.
                                                                          

I wouldn't recommend "Stand On Zanzibar" -- it is long and unwieldy, and
after two attempts, I was unable to finish it.  The writing wasn't bad,
and some of the situations mildly interesting, but it skipped around far
too much without stopping long enough to develop characters or scenes.
After reading about a thousand one-page chapters, followed by a total change
of scene and characters, I just couldn't take it anymore.  Most of those
chapters contribute nothing visible to the progress of the book, and it
came off as very boring to me.  It's not that I can't take drastic short
cuts, or lots of characters (I can get through Sheckley even at his oddest
short-and-weird cuts, and Solzhenitsyn's cast-of-thousands style doesn't
bug me: maybe it's just the combination plus the feeling that they're all
thrown in just for the hell of it).

	/dave

My favorite Norton book is "Catseye", one of her earliest. Sam, do you
read much fantasy, or do you prefer "hard" SF? If you're into magic/fantasy
at all, then Patricia McKillip's "The Forgotten Beasts of Eld" is extremely
good, and Katharine Kurtz's "Deryni" and "Camber" series are also worth
reading. (I just read "Lammas Night", a Kurtz book about the witches of
England taking on Hitler to prevent the invasion of Britain during WWII;
it was enjoyable, not amazing, but the descriptions of ritual magic were
very good.)

And to dash off on a tangent, one of my favorite fantasy works, Kipling's
"Jungle Book". (I keep thinking what a great dungeon it would make...)

-b

	re 20. Very much into sf/fantasy, that's why I like Dune,
		Moorcock. I haven't yet read Foundation, though
		I have a copy. Hardcore sf is something I haven't
		really taken a liking to, maybe Dream Park (but
		that's not either.)
		
		"Jungle Book (the original) was good (I'm Indian)
		but I was utterly sickened by that movie.

					sam

Re .14 and .18 - yes, I goofed, it was M.A. Foster who wrote _Gameplayers
of Zan_.  There's another M.A. Foster book, called _Day of the Klesh_, that's
a sort-of sequal (as I recall).  At least, I remember one character who was
in both books.

Jim Stratton

Actually, THE GAMEPLAYERS OF ZAN and DAY OF THE KLESH were the second and third
novels, in order of publication, in the series. The first was THE WARRIORS OF
DAWN. This was the only one I've read so far; it was fairly good, but not so
wonderful that I go out of my way to read the other novels.

--- jerry

Ursala LeGuin's books are not "hard" SF.  Some might even call them
fantasies.  The technology is way in the background.

Are the three "Gaea" books "hard" SF?  I wouldn't say so; not like
Clarke or Asimov.  For a long read, get all three and read them
in order.  See other notes for opinions on this masterpiece.

I am catching up in the file after several months, thus this much later note -

Sam, what did you finally read? 

Steve

Sam(13)
	I'm only 6 years older than you, I back on Thanksgiving vacation from
college and I looked in this file.  Two Andre Norton books I enjoyed were 
"The Beastmaster", that has nothing to do with that awful movie of the same
name with Tanya Roberts in it, and it's sequel "Lord of Thunder" they're both
fairly interesting and I always enjoy anything to do with psychic stuff.
	Another good series was the "Lord of the Diamond" by Jack Chalker
I don't remember the individual titles but the first one was, I think 
"Medusa:: Snake in the Grass" or something like that.
	See you at Christmas time...

					Johnny O.

	Think of it as grooming a future DEC employee.. And helping a
	younger generation with different forms of communication..

	Besides, the kid knows his SF.. :-)  (And I said it's ok) :-) :-)

						mike

    His parents are (or at least one of them is) DECcies.
    
    --- jerry

  I believe DEC security would tell you that's a no-no.  I believe a DEC
employee was reprimanded (whatever that means) for allowing members of the
family (i.e. kids) to access the network.

John

RE: .31

	I have not heard anything like that.  I also beleive that as long
	as the kid isn't hacking (ie: attempted breakin's, messing with
	privs, etc..) that there would be a problem. On the other hand, if
	your spouse or one of your kids worked for DG or IBM then allowing
	them access to the Easynet would be a definate no-no.. Reading and
	replying in a Science Fiction notes conference by a enthusiastic
	(And Quite responsible I might add) 14(15?16?) year old interested 
	in SF and Digital in general AND supervised by his parents sounds
	ok to me.. After all, Digital sponsors computer camps for it's
	employees kids.. Using DEC equipment I might add..

	I think the issue should be closed.

							mike

    And besides, it's good marketing strategy for VAXnotes :-)
    
    Mike

  RE: .32

  Hey, if I'm a system manager or system owner and there are employees' kids
taking up my disk space on a production machine, I'm going to get upset. DEC
equipment is for DEC purposes (yes, I know, that's subject to interpretation).
If we give away hardware, that's one thing, but letting kids in is crossing the
line.  When you cross a line once, the line is so much garbage.  I'm not
opposed to having them patronize electronic discussions.  The point is that
they are in a corporate domain. 

John

Oops - Flame off.

        Well, John, I'm glad to see that *you* never use DEC resources
        for anything not directly work related; like flight simulators
        or any of those nasty CPU and disk wasting games... 
        
        Reading this conference is a use of DEC resources for non-DEC
        purposes, as is the case for *most* popular NOTES conferences.
        Same for working on games or non work-related tools. 
        
        Almost all of these things use more DEC CPU cycles and disk
        space than allowing one's kids access to some real computer
        education and enjoyment.  And since there's a fair history
        of DEC kids growing up to join DEC, such a use of resources
        may turn out to be much more profitable in the long run...
        
        	/dave

	As moderator of this conference I'd like to ask that the 
	discussion end.. I'd rather not be putting the spotlight
	on this conference when it's really about SF. If you wish to
	discuss this issue then do so elsewhere.. Only don't point
	back to here..

							mike

    This note is being added with the permission of the moderator.
    As a result of the negative remarks about Sam participating
    (one at least of which was sent to his parents) Sam is no longer
    writing in this notes file. (Note also with permission of
    Sam's mother). Personally I'm sorry he's no longer writing,
    I enjoyed his style.
    Bonnie

    I'm looking for something truly original to read.  Nowadays when I go
    to the bookstore and look in the Sci-Fi section, all the books look
    more or less the same.  A lot of sword & sorcery stories which I find
    are nothing more than Tolkien or CS Lewis imitations. Then you have hard
    science fiction stories that are shoot-em-up and blast-them-to-pieces 
    spacewar operas that go along the lines of StarWars or Buck Rogers.  Can 
    someone suggest something for me.  The last sci-fi novel that I truly
    enjoyed was David Brin's Sundiver.

Something original?  How about...

	"Grass"  -- by Sherri Tepper
	"Raising the Stones" -- by the same
	"Earth" -- David Brin

(just a couple of my latest reads)

    Well, there are the other two Brin novels that are sequels to
    "Sundiver," "Startide Rising," and "The Uplift War."
    
    If you look through old SF books in used-book shops, you may find the
    "Marianne" books by Sherri Tepper.  These are modern fantasy, not very
    sword-&-sorcerous:
    	"Marianne, the Magus, and the Manticore"
    	"Marianne, the Madame, and the Momentary Gods"
    	"Marianne, the Matchbox, and the Malachite Mouse"
    
    At least as off-beat and hard to find are these old books by R. A.
    Lafferty:
    
    	"Past Master"
    	"Fourth Mansions"
    	"The Devil Is Dead"
    
    LeGuin has recently put out "Tehanu," the last Earthsea book, which you
    might like.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

"Anazazi" whose author I forgot, is interesting. It's actually three medium
length stories that are loosely tied by common characters. The last story being
a SF style conjecture on why the Anazazi built the cliff dwellings. 

I liked the books by both Kathleen O'Neal and her husband Micheal Grear. They
are basically space opera but with a religous theology that I found to be a 
real springboard for me to think about the nature of god. Her books are the
Light series and his the Spider series. They have also written one together
about prehistory but I haven't read it.

"The Khan's Persuasion" wasn't a bad book. It wasn't great but it was a
fun read and the plot was a bit different. 

There was a book by (I think) Alan Hruska, which was about time travel. I'll
try to find the title tonight. I though it was one of the best of those type
stories I'd read. liesl

    Have a look for the Ace SF Originals series.  It started back in
    the '60s and published some of the best stuff of the time.  It
    was revived in the '80s by the same editor, Terry Carr, and
    carried on until his untimely death.  The second series saw the
    first publications of Gibson, Shepard, Swanwick - names that are
    now stars.  The books were always innovative, if not always successful,
    and are guaranteed to be dragon-free.  
    
    The best present analog to the Ace Originals is the Bantam
    Spectra line.  I've been quite impressed by the quality and
    originality of what they're publishing.
    
    My own 2-second critical method is to reject anything with a sword
    or a spaceship on the cover.  These are code symbols to lure in
    14-year-olds.  Publishers spend a lot of time on cover-art
    semiotics, and know exactly what segment they're appealing to.
    Large, curly letters mean romances, embossed images of aircraft
    mean techno-thrillers, black spines mean horror, and 
    collections-of-objects-and-guns mean mysteries.   If the cover
    doesn't fit into one of these obvious categories, the book has a
    chance at originality.
    
    /jlr

    	Try L. Ron Hubbard's series called "MISSION: Earth". It's a ten book
    set......I'm on #5.
    
    	-Hoop-

    re:.42
    
    Two corrections: the series is the Ace SF Specials, not Originals.
    Secondly, though Terry Carr didn't have anything to do with them,
    the second series of Specials appeared in the mid-to-late 70's.
    The 80's revival was actually the *third* Specials series.
    
    --- jerry

The Alan Hruska novel I mentined is "Borrowed Time". And "Anazazi" was written
by David Ing. liesl

    Yes, Dean Ing - and why anyone would ever recommend anything by this
    author eludes me. (shudder)
    
    -M
    

re: -1 Why this response? I would hardly call him a great author but the stories
kept my interest and were a bit different than the usual. Perhaps it's just that
I've been to the Anazazi ruins and modern pueblos so I felt a sense of place and
time in his story that kept my interest. liesl

    re: .44
    
    Terry Carr may not have editted the ACE SF Specials in the 70s, but he
    did do the ones in the '60s and '80s, or at least that's what he
    says in an introduction I have from one of the '80s books.  

    Anyway, here are some of the '60s ACE Specials that you might want to find:
    
    Past Master - R. A. Lafferty
    Rite of Passge - Alexei Panshin
    The Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula K. LeGuin
    Anc Chaos Died - Joanna Russ
    The Year of the Quiet Sun - Wilson Tucker
    Mechasm - John Sladek
    The Jagged Orbit - John Brunner
    
    Quite a list of masters!  Here are some of the titles from the
    '80s series:
    
    The Wild Shore - Kim Stanley Robinson
    Green Eyes - Lucius Shepard
    Neuromancer - William Gibson
    Them Bones - Howard Waldrop
    In the Drift - Michael Swanwick
    
    And here are some of the titles in the Bantam Spectra Special
    Editions series, the closest thing at present to the ACE Specials:
    
    No Enemy But Time - Michael Bishop
    Out on Blue Six - Ian MacDonald
    Memories - Mike McQuay
    Memory Wire - Robert Charles Wilson
    Phases of Gravity - Dan Simmons
    
    I think MacDonald and Wilson will be big names in the '90s. 
    Simmons is already.
    
    /jlr

    I am at present struggling with the second of the Shannarah (sp)
    books, and thinking of giving up on it....
    
    Anyone got any suggestions in the style of "Dragon" series McAffery
    or "Amtrak" series...
    
    Bob (lost in the depths of stories that put me to sleep!)

    
    Ok, here's your chance. 
    
    I am so unbelievably bored with SF lately. Everything seems to be
    either some cutesy weenie fantasy bilge or some low calorie, mind
    numbing, new age, environmentally friendly, non toxic space opera pap.
    Are there no good new authors out there ?
    
    Currently I am reading Gibson's and Stirlings's "The Difference Engine"
    which is marginally passable. My tastes tend to Niven, Gibson, Brin,
    Bear, etc. Favourite book is "Neuromancer". No Clarke (one more Rama 
    book and I'm gonna yack), Asimov (Robot's of Dawn did it for me) or 
    Heinlein (Rather read a Harlequin romance) please.
    
    Let's get those suggestions rolling in.
    
    bruce

    There's 'The Rainbow Cadenza' from a few years back (author's name
    escapes me.) I'm reading a book from the 'next wave' series called
    'Alien Tongue' which is pretty interesting. The 'Ace Specials' series
    that produced 'Neuromancer' had some other interesting stuff.
    (I'd like to find a copy of Lucius Shepard's 'Green Eyes.')

    re: .-2
    
    I sympathize - almost everything new on the stands looks like
    imitative junk.   It's possible to write a good medieval fantasy
    or even a good Star Trek novel (see "The Final Reflection" by
    John Ford), but most are retreads.  Nevertheless, there has been 
    a crop of good new writers in the '80s.  They've just been
    overwhelmed by the hacks.  Try books
    by Walter Jon Williams, Michael Swanwick, Lewis Shiner, Elizabeth
    Hand, or the above-mentioned Ford.  The Hugos and Nebulas are
    actually pretty good guides if you're completely lost.  
    
    /jlr

re: .50

you might try Iain Banks's _Consider Phlebas_ (it's out in PB and is
an odd sort of book..."noir space opera" you might say)
								paul

    Re .50
    
    I'll reiterate my recommendation for "ME," a novel about and narrated
    by some sentient software, by Thomas T. Thomas.
    
    There's also a novel called "Neverness" by an other beginning with Z
    (sorry about the vagueness) which is rather a cyber-punky space opera
    and full of interesting invention, though there were times when I lost
    patience with the Byronic narrator.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    
    Thanks for all the recommendations. Keep 'em coming.
    
    re: .54
    
    This "ME" sounds intriguing. I'll definately check that out.
    Love the personal name. :^)
    
    bruce

    re: .-2
    
    "Neverness" is by David Zindell.  I liked the city where everyone
    commuted on ice skates and the way that true space navigators had
    to prove a mathematical theorem in order to get anywhere, but got
    distracted when the hero decides to become a Neadrathal.  /jlr

    Re .56
    
    Thanks for the reference.  Yeah, I tended to skim the Neanderthal
    passages.  
    
    Earl Wajenberg

"Iris" by ?

Bunch of high-tech, very intelligent misfits decide to set up their own little
colony on a moon of Saturn.  Interesting.

"Charon's Ring" (Ring of Charon?) by ?

Start of a pretty decent series.  Every description I think of is a spoiler...

    Another vote for "Iris".  Involves discovery of a major alien artifact.
    Author escapes me too.
    
    len.
    

At the risk of repeating myself...

	"Grass" by Sherri S. Tepper
	"Raising the Stones" by same.

Both are a little slow for the first 50 or so pages as the characters develop,
but by the end I was losing sleep 'cause I couldn't put them down!  Both
are now available in paperback.

    re .58, .59 - "Iris" is by Barton and Capobianco.
    
    len.
    

    
    	A couple of authors I haven't seen here yet are:
    
    		Lois McMaster Bujold    The Miles Vorkosigan series
    
    		Leo Frankowski          The Crosstime Engineer Series