Conference noted::sf

Would Olaf Stapledon's stuff be an example?  Also some of Arthur C. Clarke?
The Carl Sagan first novel (i forget what it was called).

"And, of course," Frank Herbert's _Destination: Void_. ;-)

								paul

    Carl Sagan's first (and only, as far as I know) SF novel was
    called "Contact", and definitely counts for metaphysical SF.
    Others you might look for are anything by Jorge Luis Borges
    (particularly "Labyrinths") and Stanislaw Lem (particularly "The
    Cyberiad" or "The Futurological Congress", very funny).  The
    command 
    
    Notes> sh key <name> /full
    
    can point you to more info on them.  /jlr

    Re .0:
    
    These titles and authors don't match well with the examples you give,
    but they fit the description you give for "metaphysical/philosophical
    SF":
    
    The Cyberiad by Stanislaw Lem
    	(Comical short stories about robots, computers, mind, and reality)
    
    The "Space Triology" by C. S. Lewis:
    	Out of the Silent Planet
    	Perelandra
    	That Hideous Strength
    	(SF or fantasy depending on your theology, definitely about
    	 human nature and fate, God, heaven, and hell, with ETs thrown in)
    
    The novels of Charles Williams:
    	The Greater Trumps
    	Many Dimensions
    	Descent into Hell
    	The Place of the Lion
    	Shadows of Ecstasy
    	All Hallows' Eve
    	(Not an easy author to read, but VERY metaphysical in subject
    	 matter)
    
    "The Warhound and the World's Pain," by Michael Moorcock
    	(about a Renaissance mercenary sent out by Satan to seek the
    	 Holy Grail as a move toward surrender terms to God)
    
    "Past Master" by R. A. Lafferty
    	(almost slapstick metaphysical space opera)
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    I'm starting the third Ender book by Orson Scott Card, 'Xenocide',
    and I must admit that I'm really hooked on these.
    
    The first two books are 'Ender's Game' and 'Speaker For the Dead'.
    These books have enough action to keep them rolling, and plenty of
    suspense/mystery, but their captivating quality is in their examination
    of politics, religion, and philosophy.
    
    There are enough thought-provoking themes in the trilogy to keep a
    discussion going a long time.  Card works in the gray areas between
    good and evil, black and white.  There is a re-occurring theme in
    'Speaker' that opposites in race or religion can come to live together
    and respect each other through understanding.  When walls (or fences)
    are built between them, there is little understanding and disasters
    can occur.  This is something the human race will never seem to
    comprehend.
    
    BTW, I thought that Card's writing improved between Ender's Game and
    Speaker for the Dead.  I'm just starting Xenocide, so I'm anxious to
    see if he's gotten even better.
    _Marty 

    "Moonwise" by Greer Ilene Gilman
        Dark and mysterious, remiscent of Gormenghast and Infinity Concerto

    "Neverness" by David Zindel
        Uneven, but the best parts are very good.

Hi Chuck, I really liked Kathleen O'Neal's Treasure Of Light series. I just
can't remember the names. I can bring the books in to work if you're interested.
I also have several others at home that might qualify but I'll have to check
titles. The memory goes first. :*) 

I enjoy reading books that go into the nature of god and explore the demensions
of the soul. I tend to dislike black/white good/evil characters and prefer
shades of grey with interesting moral dilemmas. liesl

    David Lindsay's "A Voyage to Arcturus" is about as weird and
    metaphysical as you can get (if you can find it).  The science is er,
    ideosyncratic (the hero flies to Arcturus in a spaceship powered by
    backward light rays).
    
    Brian Stableford's "The Werewolves of London" and "The Angel of Pain"
    are, I think specifically described by the author as "Metaphysical
    Scientific Romances" (and are the first two volumes in a trilogy).
    
    John Crowley's work is fairly metaphysical and deals quite a bit with
    "paradigm shifts" and the nature of reality, although he is probably
    too "magic realist"for your tastes.  "Little, Big" is his classic work,
    but you could try "Great Work of Time" which applies chaos theory to
    multiple time lines and paradoxes and is considerably shorter (a
    Battam novella)
    
    Christopher Priest played about with the nature of reality in "Inverted
    World" (a "(very, very) big planet" novel)  and "The Affirmation" (a
    post-modernist psychological novel with SF bits)
    
    Ursula Le Guin's "The Lathe of Heaven" is pretty metaphysical too.
    
    Hope this helps, though some of these books may not be easy to find.
    
     

    Oddly enough (considering his reputation as a "rivets" type), several of 
    Arthur C. Clarke's stories are pretty "metaphysical":
    
    "Childhood's End" (an SF Buddhist UFOlogist eschatology)
    "The City and the Stars" (how to wrap up human history)
    "Expedition to Earth" (a short story, also anthologized under that
    	title)
    The 2000 etc. series, though I liked the movies better...
    
    Here are a couple more by R. A. Lafferty, both, like "Past Master,"
    rather apocalyptic, and both hard to find, I'm afraid.  Both involve
    more or less ordinary guys (each with some strange aces in strange
    holes) up against a Conspiracy Against the World.
    
    "The Devil is Dead" 
    "Fourth Mansions"
    
    Also:
    
    "Black Easter" & "The Day After Judgement" by James Blish (fantasy set in 
    	the modern world about black magicians vs white as their conflicts 
    	would "really" work under the premises of Christian theology and 
    	western occultism)
    
    "A Case of Conscience" by James Blish (about a space explorer who is
    	also a Jesuit priest, wondering if the aliens they've discovered
    	are Edenically innocent or machinations of the devil)
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    The most perfect Crowley novel is "Engine Summer" -- very hard to find,
    very much worth the effort.
    
    Check out Joanna Russ's novels, particularly "The Female Man", "We Who
    Are About To...", and "The Two of Them".
    
    Karen Joy Fowler has two superb collections of short stories and a
    superb first-contact / historical novel / Western novel, "Sarah
    Canary".
    
    James Morrow's "Only Begotten Daughter" and (can't remember the
    author)'s "Good News from Outer Space" are pop-theological romps somewhat
    along the lines of "Stranger in a Strange Land".
    
    In the older stuff, you might look into Edgar Pangborn and Theodore
    Sturgeon.
    
    More back at home, I'm sure...
    
    Ray

I checked my shelves and and found another. "Borrowed Time" by Alan Hruska. Don't
know if he ever did another.

This covers love and souls and time travel. One of the best time travel stories
I've ever read. If it's not still in print you can borrow my copy. It's great
having some Colorado noters here. Now we can finally share like the crowd back
east! liesl

    
    How about Heinlein's "Job: A Comedy of Justice".  It seems to me that
    it fits your description.  Some others that come to mind are:
    
    "Strength of Stones" by Bear (?)
    "The Forge of God" and "Anvil of Stars" by Pohl (?)
    "Nightfall" by Clark (?)
    
    Sorry for the questions on authors, but I'm terrible with names.
    
    Stu

By metaphysics, do you mean religion, the nature of man, the nature of reality,
the hidden assumptions that color our world view, other things, or some
combination of the above?  Does it have to be hard to read?

For a romp in this space, how about "The Practice Effect" by (I think) David
Brin?

"The Witches of Karres" (James Schmitz, I think) is another humorous effort in
this space.

Many things by Alice Sheldon (James Tiptree, Jr.).  Very subtle -- or at least
oblique -- feminism in some cases, but other issues concerning how point of
view affects the nature of reality.

Alfred Bester's "The Stars My Destination" (earlier version, "Tiger, Tiger").
A prototype of cyberpunk before the metaphysics were mined out.  There is
another story, entitled "Rebirth" (I think) in the same collection where I
usually find the Bester story, don't recall who wrote it, about telepaths and
intolerance, and a third in the collection ("Brain Wave?") that was the first
occurance I've seen of the idea that earth is in an area of the galaxy that
makes people stupid.  Two volumes.

*Anything* by Vernor Vinge, but especially "True Names".

Arthur C. Clark's "The Star", a short story (song by Larry Warner).

C. J. Cherryh's Alliance/Union universe, especially "The Pride of Chanur" and
its four sequels, or "The Faded Sun" trilogy.  These stories are told about
politics and intrigue, but they are really about the clash of cultures.
Although told about aliens, you can usually find a terrestrial culture that at
least tried out the ideas portrayed.

Zenna Henderson's, "The Book of the People" and "The People, No Different
Flesh".  Mostly mined out now, e.g., Mutant series by Karen Haber (?) and
(the first book) Robert Silverberg.

"Camp Concentration".  Can't remember the author.  A different approach to
intelligence augmentation.

"The Fourth R" by George O. Smith (I think), published later under the title
"The Brain Machine".  He had another about the legacy of a genetic engineer
which I can't recall the title of.

"Monument", "All the Colors of Darkness" and sequels, others by Lloyd Biggle,
Jr.

Children's books: "The Mouse and His Child".  "Flight to the Mushroom Planet".

There is a trilogy by Rebecca Ore (third book, "Human to Human") which is about
culture shock from many points of view.

"The Great Time Machine Hoax", "Time is the Simplest Thing" and "Way Station"
by Clifford D. Simak.  Almost anything by Simak, but these are the ones I liked
most.

This just scratches the surface.  If only I were at MITSFS with access to
PinkDex to aid my failing memory instead of in Colorado...

						-- Spencer

    		All,
    
    	Wonderful! All of the replies are appreciated; I'm going to have
    some big reading fun now... Keep 'em coming, I'll also post more if I
    can think of any (time to go through my library anyhow..)
    
    I can't believe I left out A.C. Clarke in the base note.... Also, I
    would include Frank Herbert's -The Jesus Incident, and The Lazarus Effect.
    And Carl Sagan's _Contact_, for me, excellently illustrates what it is
    I'm craving. Gimme another one of those; Big Fun!
    
    Re: .3 (I think) - yup, some of the examples (e.g., Ringworld) may not
    match the definition posted. I guess I wanted to also include some of
    my favourite titles to illustrate my reading tastes... Busted! But I
    believe Riverworld qualifies, and was, for me, a very fun read.
    
    Re: -1; If it has to be hard to read, I too will normally pass
    (exceptions- some Phillip Dick, Samuel Delaney).
    
    					Thanks again,
    
    						chuck
                                                     

    Re .12:
    
    (Nit: "The Great Time Machine Hoax" is by Keith Laumer, not Clifford
    Simak.  At least, Laumer did write a novel by that title.)
    
    Earl Wajenbreg

    "Camp Concentration" was by Thomas M. Disch.  His "On Wings of Song"
    may count, too.
    
    Ray

As I said, I have no reference materials here.  It's been a while since I
last reread those titles.  Sorry about misattributing the author.  I do not
withdraw the topical recommandation.

Some older titles by Keith Laumer did play with reality in interesting ways.
Most of his writing is very lighthearted, although he did a collaboration (with
his wife?) called "Earthblood" that was tragic, and his "Bolo" series is much
less of a romp than "Lafayette O'Leary" and "Retief".  He used to be on my "buy
immediately even in hardback" list, but I find his more recent work incoherent,
and now *avoid* new books by this author -- too disappointing.  (I have heard
rumors that that is due to his health.)

I particularly recommend his "Retief's War".

In the early 60's, (1963?) Laumer wrote what may be the first and last Retief
story (first written, last in story sequence) in one of the magazines (Analog?).
You can find this by going to MITSFS, consulting the magazine index, and
reading short story from the appropriate bound volume (which NEVER leaves the
library).  This story (alone of all Retief stories) isn't funny, but it is sort
of on this note topic as it is about honor (why people do things) and makes
Retief a lot less two-dimensional.

						-- Spencer

    Julian May has a set of books out that are all about the metaphysical.
    
    in order
    
    THE MANY COLORED LAND
    THE GOLDEN TORC
    THE NONBORN KING
    THE ADVERSARY
    A PLIOCENE COMPANION ( encyclopedia on previous 4 books)
    THE SURVEILLANCE
    METACONCERT
    JACK THE BODYLESS
    
    In my opinion these are some of the bests books I've ever read.
    
    Rich

    The "Tarot" series by Piers Anthony
    

    re: .9
    
    "Good News from Outer Space" is by John Kessel.  Funny in places,
    scary in others, and with a veyr subtle alien.

     ref .12, "Rebirth"
    
    Perhaps a story about an older telepath finding his son is being
    prejudiced against nontelepaths by a telepathic broadcast whose
    central character is a "green man?" It was by Kuttner.

    Ian Watson's work plays a lot of games with reality:
    
    In "Miracle Visitors" UFO's are "explained" in a variety of ways
    including "tulpas" from a higher reality.
    
    In "The Jonah Kit", the discovery of ripples in the background
    radiation confirm that our universe is merely a ghost of the real one!
    
    

In the anthologized story which I believe is called "Rebirth," the world has
been devastated by what must have been a nuclear war.  The story is set in what
is probably a post-holocaust Newfoundland.  The society is extremely (and
perhaps justifiably) hostile to mutants.  Mutant humans are sterilized and cast
out; mutant plans and animals are simply destroyed.  Our protagonists are
secret mutants, because their new ability is not obvious to their observers.

						-- Spencer

    Re .22:
    
    I think your "Rebirth" is by John Wyndam.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    Re .22:
    
    Also published as The Chrysalids, by John Wyndham.

if you liked "riverworld" and "ringworld", you'll love johne varley's Gaea 
series. "Titan", "demon", and "wizard" are exciting, thought-provoking ,and 
hunorous. I may be slightly predjudiced, but i think that gaea ranks right up 
there for universes that follow different rules and anthropomorphic alien 
species. and cirroco jones is one of the most formidible female protagonists 
since morgaine. try them.

kirby