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Conference noted::sf

Title:Arcana Caelestia
Notice:Directory listings are in topic 2
Moderator:NETRIX::thomas
Created:Thu Dec 08 1983
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1300
Total number of notes:18728

1070.0. "Need help creating a solid collection for a bookstore" by RAGS::GINGRAS () Wed Jun 03 1992 17:38

I've been given permission by some teacher friends of mine who own an
independent bookstore to take care of the science fiction shelf for them.

Since their specialties are children's books, women's books, health
books, and cookbooks, they were eager to let me check their SF inventory
and improve it.  I've already started but it will take some time because
I've only got a designated amount of space and so I have to replace books one
for one.

To create a quality selection that we can be proud of, I'd like
to get input from the readers of this notesfile.  Rather than ask for
suggestions though (this notesfile is full of good information), I'd like
willing participants to list the last 5 or 10 SF and fantasy books they've
read.  Asking for suggestions may turn up a list of the classics, but a 
list of what you've read recently would turn up some titles of good 
current books that haven't reached 'classic' status.  I think that would
be more useful since I intend to get many of the classics anyway.

If you want to rate a book as 'recommended' as opposed to 'stinks', that
would be helpful also.

Please add any other suggestions or comments.  Since mentioning the name 
of the store might be considered promoting special interests, I've left it
out of this note.

Thanks for all your help.

Marty Gingras          ZK3-3/X73       381-0181


T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1070.1HELIX::KALLISPumpkins ... Nature's greatest gift.Wed Jun 03 1992 18:1527
Well ...

Jurassic Park (Crichton)

The Incomplete Enchanter (Pratt & DeCamp -- pb version is called "The Complete
                         (Enchanter" and covers all the Harold Shea stories)

The Dark Tower (King)
Calling of the Three (King)

Children of the Lens (Smith)

Witches of Karres (Schmitz)

Too Many Magicians (Garrett)

The Hallowe'en Tree (Bradbury)

Pigeons From Hell and Other Stories (Howard)

The Maker of Moons (Chambers)

That's my last 10.  Obviously, I reread from my own collection a lot.
Needless to say, since these are rereads, I enjoyed them enough to delve into
them again.

Steve Kallis, Jr.
1070.2We collect this stuff because we re-read it a lot...CUPMK::WAJENBERGNever run from anything immortal.Wed Jun 03 1992 19:0621
    Like Steve's, a lot of mine aren't new:
    
    Code Blue: Emergency (James White)
    
    The Genocidal Healer (James White)
    
    The Folk of the Air (Peter S. Beagle)
    
    The Ghost Light (Fritz Leiber)
    
    The Knight and Knave of Swords (Fritz Leiber)
    
    ME (Thomas T. Thomas)
    
    Agent of Vega (James Schmidt)
    
    something by Clifford Simak
    
    Memory fails beyond this point.
    
    Earl Wajenberg
1070.3KUKRI::piersonAnother day, another windmillWed Jun 03 1992 19:1919
All in 1992, the last bunch pretty much the last I've read.  Don't trust
the spelling of author names

Dark Sun Rising (C.S. Friedman)         *very* highly recommended, hardback
The Deed of Paksenarion (Moon)          highly recommended, trade (or 3 pb)
...
A Dirge for Stabis (Fish w/ Cherryh)    good read
Inquisitor (Franklin)                   interesting first novel
The Magic of Recluse (Modeset)          recommended
Wizard Spawn (Aire w/ Cherryh)          mediocre
??? (Lackey w/ Cherryh)                 pretty good read, but not Lackey's best
(New Witch World pair by Norton and Crispin)
Horn Crown (Norton)                     classic
The Sun, Moon and Stars (Brust)         different and stylistic, I enjoyed it
Surrender None (Moon)                   highly recommended
Vortex (Bunch and Cole)                 the earlier Sten books were better
Liar's Oath (Moon)                      recommended (so far, I'm in the middle)

Hmm, looks like it's time to read some hard SF :-)
1070.4oh yeah, hickman and weiss d&d type booksGAMGEE::ROBRNot plane or bird nor even frog...Thu Jun 04 1992 02:1221
    
    hmmm...
    
    currently reading
    
    joel rosenberg's series (i forget the name, bu t it's not very good
    anyway :'))  nice simple violent reading.
    
    heir to the empire: zahn (not bad)
    the uplift war: brin (not bad)
    the new shannara book: brooks (not bad)
    
    recent reads from a while ago
    
    earth, startide rising: brin
    wheel of time books:  [brain cloud]
    hyperion books: simmons
    illuminatii books: [some strange people] (on my top 10 worst)
    various heinlein classics
    robot books: asimov
    
1070.5 Some a bit old but quite goodSNO78A::NANCARROWThu Jun 04 1992 09:3934
    
    Have not had much time but:
    
        Fantasy
    
    	Fionavar Tapestry Series (now re reading third time)
        Guy Gavriel Kay
    		1/ The Summer Tree
    		2/ The Wandering Fire
    		3/ The Darkest Road
    	All Highly recommended.
    
    	The Magician series By Raymond Feist
    		1/ Magician ( different name in the US I believe)
    		2/ Silverthorn
    		3/ Darkness at Sethanon
    		4/ Princes Of the Blood
    		5/ Daughter of the empire
    		6/ Servant of the Empire
                7/ Mistress of the Empire (just released in Australia)
    
    	SF pure
    
    		Cities in Flight series by James Blish old
    
    		Dark Inferno   James White (excellent) old
    
    	    	The latest mission Earth books ( can't keep track of them
    		but all quite good)
    
    
    							Mike N	
    	
    
1070.6A few to startSELL1::FAHELAmalthea Celebras/Silver UnicornThu Jun 04 1992 13:0010
    I'm not too much SF, but I DO enjoy fantasy...
    
    Eddings - The Belgariad (5 book series)
    Eddings - The Mallorean (5 book series)
    J.R.R. Tolkien ('nuff said)
    A Clockwork Orange
    Alas Babylon
    Adams - Hitchhikers' Guide "trilogy" (4 book series)
    
    K.C.
1070.7BujoldTLE::JBISHOPThu Jun 04 1992 14:425
    There's also Lois McMaster Bujold's books, such as _Barrayar_.
    I've re-read my copies more than twice each, and will instantly
    buy another by her when (and if) one comes out.
    
    				-John Bishop
1070.8Almost anything by PangbornWHOS01::BOWERSDave Bowers @WHOThu Jun 04 1992 15:051
    
1070.9my 7GUCCI::EWISEPobodys NerfectThu Jun 04 1992 16:1719
	Robert Lynn Asprin
		ANY Myth Adventure
		ANY Phules Adventure
	James White
		Any Sector General
		ANY ;^)
	Larry Nevin 
		Any Known Space
	Issac Asimov 
		ANY
	Spider Robinson
		Any
	Lois McMasters Bojold 
		Any
	Orson Scott Card
		Any
    
    	Eric
    
1070.10SALEM::COLETTISome dance to remember...Thu Jun 04 1992 16:369
    'Grass', 'Raising the Stones', 'Gate to Women's Country' - Sherri
    Tepper (just discovered her..)
    
    'The Postman', David Brin
    
    'Neuromancer', William Gibson (left in the back of my truck for several
    years!)
    
    'Jurassic Park', Michael Crichton
1070.11MIPSBX::thomasThe Code WarriorFri Jun 05 1992 11:0234
Iain M. Banks
    The Player of Games
    Consider Plebeas
    The Use of Weapons

Stephen Brust
    The Vlad Taltos books
    To Reign in Hell

Roger Zelanzy
    Lord of Light
    The Amber series (both)

John Brunner
    Schockwave Rider
    The Sheep Look Up

David Brin
    The River of Time
    Startide Rising
    The Postman

Katherine Kurtz
    The Deryni Series

Robert Heinlein
    The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress
    Expanded Universe
    [Most of his juveniles]

Orson Scott Card
    Ender's game, Speaker of the Dead, Xenocide
    Alvin Maker series

1070.12CUPMK::WAJENBERGQuoth the raven, `Occasionally.'Fri Jun 05 1992 13:122
    Are people stil listing the requested "last 5 or 10 SF and fantasy books 
    they've read," as opposed to their all-time favorites?
1070.13Oh, I have _lots_ of favorites ...HELIX::KALLISPumpkins ... Nature's greatest gift.Fri Jun 05 1992 13:216
    Re .12 (Earl):
    
    It's been my experience that after a reply string is long enough, few
    newcomers bother to read the base note.  ;-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
1070.14All suggestions are worthwhileRAGS::GINGRASFri Jun 05 1992 13:5014
    It's okay if it goes off on a little tangent.  I think I'm getting
    authors and titles that are still being read and some of them,
    although a bit older, are definitely worth offering as selections to
    our science fiction customers.
    
    BTW, if I didn't mention it in the basenote, I'm a volunteer in the
    store and get no compensation.  My buddy and I run the place on
    Friday nights and have a good time talking to customers and checking
    out the titles.  I feel privileged that the owners let me work there
    and use me as a resource in stocking various categories of books.
    It's a comfortable atmosphere.  Nothing like mall bookstores, although
    I admit that the chains have the $$ to stock more titles.
    
    Marty
1070.15VALKYR::RUSTFri Jun 05 1992 15:107
    What, no Delaney? (It's a fair answer - "Stars in My Pocket..." is the
    most recent science fiction book I've read, just a month or two ago!)
    Ought to have that one (if we're lucky, Delaney will finish part II one
    of these years), and "Dhalgren" too (must provide for those religious
    wars!).
    
    -b
1070.16good luck, marty!OBSESS::GRIFFITHFri Jun 05 1992 18:1136
marty, you might have a little trouble getting just new releases. just about 
every sf freak i know is constantly "discovering" classics or older editions 
that have not for whatever reason been read yet. how about just making the 
selections still be on the BIP list?

anyway here's my last few list:

SEAROAD  Le Guin              not really sf, but the fisrst venture of into
                              mainstream fiction by one of the best sf writers
				around.

CRADLE   A. Clarke/G. Lee	one of clarke's better recent efforts, 
				collaboration with lee is improving

YVGENIE   Cherryh		latest in RUSALKA series of fantasy

HATRACK RIVER  O.S.Card		excellent alternate history sf--3 novellas 
				released by SFBC in one volume

WINGS OF PEGASUS  McCaffrey	stories and novella from the Rowen

LORD VALENTINE'S
CASTLE             Silverberg	1st in Valentine series


THE ILLEARTH WAR    Donaldson	2nd of Covenant chronicles

STRANGER IN A
STRANGE LAND       Heinlein	this counts because it's a new, un-edited 
				version just released by his wife--some 
				interesting differences between the two versions
				a must for heinlein fans


having read sf since i was a teenager, just including the books that i've read 
more than twice would fill several library shelves, and they have.
1070.17More recently-read booksTLE::JBISHOPFri Jun 05 1992 18:299
    Another book I read recently is H(arry?) Turtledove's book
    on "what if Homo Erectus were still around", whose title
    was something like _A_Different_Flesh_.  I've found Turtledove's
    work to be variable, but would certainly pick up a new one
    to read the cover blurb if I saw it in a store.
    
    On the other hand, I'd buy a new Niven without hesitation.
    
    		-John Bishop
1070.18recent (and future) readingSIMON::SZETOSimon Szeto, International Sys. Eng.Sat Jun 06 1992 02:4528
    Currently reading: 
    The White Mountain, book 3 of Chung Kuo by David Wingrove
    (The Middle Kingdom, book 1 and The Broken Wheel, book 2, 
    are the first two of the Chung Kuo cycle.)
    
    Just finished:
    A Gift Upon The Shore, by M.K. Wren
    (I don't think this is SF; see recent note.  However, it is a
    possible pre-quel of The Phoenix Legacy trilogy, which is SF,
    by Wren.)
    
    Recently read:
    A Rage In Heaven, book 1 of Yamato, by Ken Kato
    (two paperbacks)
    
    Earth, by David Brin
    
    Tigana, by Guy Gavriel Kay
    (Incidentally, the Fionavar Tapestry trilogy is being republished in
    paperback in the US.  I have seen the first two books but not the third
    [The Darkest Road] so far.  This third has not appeared in paperback in
    the US previously.)
    
    Bought recently but not yet read:
    The Dispossessed, by Ursula K. LeGuin
    ME, by Thomas T. Thomas
    Startide Rising, by David Brin
    The Uplift War, by David Brin
1070.19SUBURB::TUDORKLaboratory ladySat Jun 06 1992 23:0028
    Last 10 read..
    
    Time of The Dark/Walls of Air/Armies of Daylight   Barbara Hambly
    (haven't read anything less than good by this author)
    
    Cthon            Piers Anthony
    (OK)
    
    Eye of Cat       Zelazny
    (not bad but not as good as the first Amber series)
    
    Second Amber series  Zelazny
    (disappointing)
    
    Soldiers in the Mist  Gene Wolf
    (OK - preferred the "Torturer" series)
    
    Mainly old titles as I don't get to Forbidden Planet often and tend to
    re-read a lot - local bookshops only stock "new releases" and I tend to
    by on the recommendation of a friend who lives in London and reads
    exclusively sci-fi/fantasy.
    
    
    Sounds like a fun job.
    
    K
    
    
1070.20TECRUS::REDFORDIf this's the future I want vanillaMon Jun 08 1992 02:4647
Here are my last ten, which represent about the last three months or
so of reading:

"Snow Crash" by Neal Stephenson (author of "Zodiac").  Hiro
Protagonist must save the world from a cable-Web mogul who has
uncovered a Sumerian neuro-virus. Just out in trade
PB.  Funny if hyperbolic.  

"To Live Forever" by Jack Vance.  50s.  Social contribution brings
increased life expectancy.  Major contributions earn immortality
through cloning.  Probably his first serious novel.

"Stations of the Tide" by Michael Swanwick.  Recent Nebula winner.  A
Bureaucrat (no name ever given) hunts for a renegade accused of
importing advanced technology onto a restricted world through a
landscape about to be drowned by the turning of a century-long
season.  Wild stuff, with fake and real magic neatly interspersed.

"Glass Houses" by Laura Mixon.  A good first novel about a waldo
operator who manages to not save the wrong man in a near-future of
massive global warming.

"Prayers to Broken Stones".  New.  Stories by Dan Simmons of "Hyperion"
fame.  Strong work, but shows that his metier is really horror.

"Red Genesis" by S. C. Sykes.  New. Straightforward colonization of Mars
novel, OK for a first-timer.

"A Maze of Stars" by John Brunner.  New.  A sentient
colonization ship loops back over the planets it has seeded and muses
on the failings of humanity.  Seems cantankerous compared to his great
dystopias of the 70s.

"Heavy Time" by C. J. Cherryh.  New.  Set in the "DownBelow Station"
universe, but about asteriod miners in the Solar System oppressed by
the Company.  Not bad, but kind of small scale for her talent.

"Jack of Shadows" by Roger Zelazny.  70s.  An obscure forerunner to the
Amber series, where an immortal anti-hero with unusual powers moves
among the worlds.

"The Ring of Charon" by Roger Allen MacBride.  nearly new. Gravity wave
experiments on Charon, the moon of Pluto, cause the awakening of
large and nasty machines in the heart of the Moon.  Too much of the
Universal Technical Genius (see the "Myths of SF" note), but not bad.

/jlr
1070.21Eight with a UK biasCHEFS::BARKMon Jun 08 1992 08:4830
    Currently reading: 
    
    +"Frankenstein" by Mary Shelley - great unread classic
    *"Only Begotten Daughter" by James Morrow - funny, well-written satire
    
    Recently read:
    !"Reaper Man" by Terry Pratchett - funny, humane UK bestseller
    +"The Skylark of Space" by EE Smith - mindless sexist drivel
    *"The MD: A Horror Story" by Thomas M Disch - ironic, clever
    Horror/SF/Fantasy
    +"Time out of Joint" by Philip K Dick - reality more boring than
    reputation
    !"The Werewolves of London" by Brian Stableford - engrossing lecture
    !"Take Back Plenty" by Colin Greenland - witty, colourful space
    adventure
    !"Wings" by Terry Pratchett - fun for kids of all ages
    
    ... which is far back as I can remember.  The Shelley, Smith and Dick
    are only in there because I resolved to grit my teeth and read some
    "classics".  The rest are what I read for pleasure.
    
    Key:
    
    * American import pb
    + 2nd Hand (UK) pb
    ! New UK pb
                      
    Hope this helps
    
    John
1070.22HELIX::KALLISPumpkins ... Nature's greatest gift.Mon Jun 08 1992 12:5334
Re .21 (John):

>*"The Skylark of Space" by EE Smith - mindless sexist drivel

A couple of points:

Did you read the first verrsion or the rewrite?  I don't know how long you've been
reading SF, but Doc Smith wrote the original Skylark  book in the 1920s (I'd tell 
you exactly when, but I'm at work and the book's aty home.

When written, the SF audience was predominantly young males who were interested
purely in far adventures; Doc asked a lady friend to hanbdle the romantic
stuff, which he didn't feel qualified to write.  The result was so syrupy that
it's nearly painful to read today.  He later (for the U.S. paperback) rewrote
sections, but since two sequels pivoted around incidents from the first book,
some things were rather cast in stone.

A basic problem (that any bookstore owner should be sensitized to) is that some
stories have to be understood in historical context.  Jules Verne's _Hector
Servadac_ by current standards has some painfully antisemitic elements that are
not comfortable to read today, but if you condemn the whole story for that, you'd
be missing some interesting reading in other areas.  In a fringe-area of such
writing is the Fu Manchu stories by Sax Rohmer (the stories, besides action-
adventure also have some SF/F elements [including UFOs, "Voodoo" spells, etc.]);
_President Fu Manchu_, for example, and not the best of the series, nonetheless
entertainsd despite some xenophobic and racist remarks.  A number of Tarzan
books has racist statements, etc.  What's one to do?  If we restrict ourselves
to Politically Correct writings, we may miss out on a bunch of stuff that both
entertains and gives us a perspective about how the genres evolved.  Thwere's no
easy answer, but, as in the case of the first Skylark book, a work past its time
is dismissed because the literature's evolved, then there's a serious difficulty
for the dedicated SF scholar.

Steve Kallis, Jr.
1070.23Hype alertCHEFS::BARKThu Jun 11 1992 09:3434
    Re. 22:
    
    The version of The Skylark of Space was "specially prepared for this
    edition by the author" and contained some references to computers, so I
    suppose it must have been the revised version.  I have actually been
    reading SF for nearly thirty years, but failed to come across Smith
    until I read a truly dreadful sample of a Lensman novel (something to
    do with the sinking of Atlantis) in my early twenties.  As a result I
    am completely immune to any nostalgic charm which these books may hold
    for other readers.  I am also fed up with hearing people like the
    Panshins hold up this kind of stuff as the essence of true SF and an
    affirmation of man's transendence (I kid you not, read The World Beyond
    the Hill).  
    
    The Arrow book edition I have has a splendid Chris Foss cover and
    refers to it as a "classic... science fiction in the grand manner".  So
    although the edition appeared in the 70's, it actaully looks as up to
    date (and as grown-up) as say the latest Greg Bear.  It would have been
    more accurate to reproduce a late 20's/early 30's pulp magazine cover
    and call it "a period classic that has excited generations of
    schoolboys".  It behoves critics to counter that kind of clever
    marketing and place it in context, as Steve says. 
    
    I also think it is perfectly valid for critics to make shopkeepers, parents,
    children, whoever aware of the moral/political biases of such books. 
    Otherwise, who else is going to do it?  Publishers' sales reps?
    
    By  the way - does anyone know if Smith is still in print on either
    side of the Atlantic?  Does he sell?  Or is he only found on second
    hand stalls at SF conventions?
    
    
    
    
1070.24GAC4::leeAs strange as I need to beThu Jun 11 1992 13:2832
	My last 10:



	"Voyage to the Red Planet"		Terry Bisson

	"The Phoenix Guards"			Steven Brust

	"Titan", "Demon", & "Wizard"		John Varley

	"Barrayar"				Lois McMasters Bujold

	"The Forge of God"			Greg Bear

	"Hyperion" & "The Fall of Hyperion"	Dan Simmons

	"Wild Cards X: Double Solitaire"	George R.R. Martin (ed.)

	"The Adept" & "The Adept Book Two: The Lodge of the Lynx"
						Katherine Kurtz & 
						Deborah Turner Harris

	"Achilles Choice"			Larry Niven & Steven Barnes

	"The Wizard and the War Machine"	Lawrence Watt-Evans





	-Andy
1070.25Hype, etc.HELIX::KALLISPumpkins ... Nature's greatest gift.Thu Jun 11 1992 13:3973
re .23:
    
    > ..............................................  I have actually been
    >reading SF for nearly thirty years, but failed to come across Smith
    >until I read a truly dreadful sample of a Lensman novel (something to
    >do with the sinking of Atlantis) in my early twenties.

Interesting story, there.  Originally, the Lensman stories appeared as 
serials in _Astounding_ (now _Analog_).  They were _Galactic Patrol_, 
_Gray Lensman_ (well "Grey" on the cover; "Gray" in the magazine; when
it first came out in the Fantasy Press version, this was done deliberately
on the dust jacket, which used the magazine cover art.  Now _that's_ 
carrying nostalgia to its extreme), _Second-Stage Lensmen_, and 
_Children of the Lens_.  Doc had previously written a novella, "Triplanetary,"
in which he used a couple of ideas that later were part of his Lensman
universe, including the neutralization of inertia for FTL flight.  A group
of fans, led by Doc's friend, E. Everett Evans, talked him into revising this
story and making it the first part of the Lensman saga.  To do this, he
retrofitted a bunch of earlier stuff, including a Confrontation between the
Arisians and the Eddorians, plus some "historic" stuff, including the
Atlantis stuff, ahead of "Triplanetary."  He then wrote a brand-new,
never-before-seen-print bridge novel, _First Lensman_ to lead the action
to _Galactic Patrol_.  I never really argued with Doc about it, but he
and I disagreed about that business; he wanted the Arisian-Eddorian conflict
out in the open, where I thought (and think) it worked a lot better as
something kept in the background.

    >The Arrow book edition I have has a splendid Chris Foss cover and
    >refers to it as a "classic... science fiction in the grand manner".

Well, different strokes, and all that -- but what is "classic"?  By current
standards, a "classic car" seems fairly primitive.  If one looks at, well,
some "classic" literature, say, _The Oyddessy_, in plot, structure, and 
motivation, it's a lot less sophisticated than what we'd expect of 
contemporary fiction.  A problem here is that "classic" can stand either
for a certain style/approach or something that transcends the normal
standards of the art.   

    > ............................................... It would have been
    >more accurate to reproduce a late 20's/early 30's pulp magazine cover
    >and call it "a period classic that has excited generations of
    >schoolboys".  It behoves critics to counter that kind of clever
    >marketing and place it in context, as Steve says.

Well, I'd suggest "a period classic," and let it go at that.  Doc didn't even
consider the Skylark books science fiction; the series' great contribution
was to bring the idea of interstellar adventure to the reader.  Without
going into a rigorous analysis between the Skylark and Lensman stories,
it's worth noting that the former are highly anthropocentric (even the
Fenachrone are humanoid); the latter have many sympathetic and likable
extraterrestrials (Worsel, Tregonsee, etc).   
    
    >I also think it is perfectly valid for critics to make shopkeepers, parents,
    >children, whoever aware of the moral/political biases of such books. 
    >Otherwise, who else is going to do it?  Publishers' sales reps?

Well ... yes and no.  _Any_ form of entertainment is hyped by its producers
and distributors.  If you don't believe me, read the hype on videocassette
film releases (either in the catalogs or on the boxes) as opposed to the 
contents.  Anybody who relies solely on hype is more likely than not to 
be burned.  That's why there are critics.  However, in the case of a "classic"
like Gernsback's _Ralph 124C41+_, a critic who (correctly) points out that 
its science is way out of date, that the dialogue is, well, verging on the
incredible, and whose politics (such as they were) are hopelessly naive, and
says nothing else, is doing the book some disservice, particularly to the 
adult reader who's trying to get a feel for the mind-set of early science
fiction.
    
Steve Kallis, Jr.    
    
    
    

1070.26Are there books above criticism?CUPMK::WAJENBERGQuoth the raven, `Occasionally.'Thu Jun 11 1992 14:3811
    Re .23:
    
       "I also think it is perfectly valid for critics to make shopkeepers,
        parents, children, whoever aware of the moral/political biases of such
        books."
    
    "Such" book?  Which books?  Old books?  Hyped books?  Politically
    incorrect books?  Why not all books?  And don't critics in fact do it
    with all books?  (Not every critic with every book, of course.)
    
    Earl Wajenberg
1070.27No book is above criticism!CHEFS::BARKFri Jun 12 1992 12:314
    All books deserve criticism, but some deserve it more than others.  In
    this case, one that was definitely not written for the audience that will
    read it today.  (Especially when it appears to endorse sexism and
    eugenics!)    
1070.28SF is not supposed to be "PC"SSAG::JSLOVEJ. Spencer Love; 237-2751; SHR3-2/W28Fri Jun 12 1992 14:3647
Different strokes for different folks.  I also found the E.E. Doc Smith
books in my 20s, and I loved them.  Still do.  Perhaps I am a case of
arrested development ;-)

The critic in this case seems to miss the point.  For example, in .27, you
say that the book in question appears to endorse sexism and eugenics.  In
this case, it isn't clear which book you mean, but there are certainly a
lot of points of view.

For example, in the Skylark series, there is certainly a lot of sexual role
stereotyping among the earth people, but the women in question are not
shrinking violets.  Among the rather barbaric people they find first in the
green system, there seems to be complete sexual equality, even if the other
peoples of the green system tend to be closer in outlook to the Seatons.

In the Lensman series, the Arisians are certainly practicing eugenics, but
note that they have to keep their manipulations completely secret until the
very end.  Granted, there is a plot reason -- keeping the Eddorians in the
dark -- but much is made of how much the humans would resent being
manipulated.  The Arisians occupy a sort of god-like role -- there's no
religion in this universe -- which may allow the reader to forgive them
their conduct.

Perhaps the reviewer also did not like the satires of Jonathan Smith?  Not
every view held by a character is a view of the author.  It is interesting
to see cultural diversity in science fiction; that is one element in the
"sweeping" scope of the book which was being hyped on the book covers. 
Another is that the travels extend across tens of thousands (later
millions) of light years.  A third is that the fates of civilizations hang
in the balance, not just the protagonist.

Neither Smith, nor later Asimov really properly conveys the actual vastness
of a galaxy.  For better treatment, Vernor Vinge has a recent novel out in
hardback, "A Fire Upon the Deep," which is excellent.  I'd recommend
anything by Vernor Vinge for an SF bookstore.  Other must-have authors
include James Tiptree, Jr. (the late Alice Sheldon).

Another recommendation is, "The Witches of Karres," by James Schmitz (also
deceased).  In these days of sequelitis, it is really a disappointment that
this story stands alone.  It's also amusing that throughout the book, we
never learn the first name of the protagonist.  The universe of this book
has a broad scope, but the problems fall in an intermediate range; the
fates of individual planets may hang in the balance, but while large on the
scale of the characters they also pale into insignificance against the
backdrop of a galaxy.

						-- Spencer
1070.29Thanks for the suggestionsRAGS::GINGRASFri Jun 12 1992 16:168
    As creator of this note, I'd like to thank everybody for the great
    suggestions.  Last week I got my friends to order Barrayar (Bujold),
    Bone Dance (Emma Bull), and reorder Brin's 'Earth' which had been
    sold and didn't get re-stocked.
    Now I've got a list of about 50 more books like to get in the store.
    Two or three a week will build their collection nicely over time.
    
    Marty
1070.30Time to make some improvements!RAGS::GINGRASWed Jan 04 1995 15:4128
    This has been a lot of fun.  It's been 3 1/2 years since the bookstore
    opened and I've had the opportunity to add many of the books mentioned
    in previous replies to our collection.  Some mentioned didn't receive
    raves and so I disregarded them.
    
    But, in the past 2 weeks I've gone over the shelf and pulled titles
    that had been sitting there since the store opened.  This means I
    can add even more of the better titles.
    
    As a matter of interest, the least favorite publisher (at least for the
    type of bookstore and location we have) was BAEN.  Their military
    scifi refused to leave the shelf in spite of the colorful cover artwork
    depicting futuristic weapons and battles.  I ripped the covers off of
    at least 37 of those books to send back for credit. (Keep in mind that
    the scifi/fantasy selection sent to the store in the beginning was
    95% the choice of the publishers and distributor). The winning choices
    for BAEN are Bujold, Moon, and McCaffrey.  With a few exceptions most
    of the others are being replaced.
    
    The other publisher with a quantity of old books still on the shelf is
    Del Rey.  Even though Del Rey has a lot of average stuff that nobody
    wanted, they also publish a lot of great classics and some good
    contemporary stuff.
    
    Now the fun will be adding new titles and completing series, then
    stepping back and admiring the small, but impressive, collection.
    _Marty
    
1070.31Anybody want to buy pages 87 - 191?RAGS::GINGRASTue Feb 07 1995 16:4118
    Regarding my last note, for anyone who isn't aware what happens to
    the books once the cover is torn off; the covers are mailed back
    to the publisher for full credit. When the owners do a publisher order
    (as opposed to one from a distributor), they will have credit on file
    applied against their bill.
    
    In keeping with the publisher's directions, and something all reputable
    book sellers do, we destroyed all copies of the coverless books. In
    fact, my friend Ann and I tore each book into 3 sections and placed
    them in separate boxes making it nearly impossible for a third party
    to find the boxes and profit from any intact books.
    
    It felt funny tearing the covers off, but considering the quality of
    writing in some of the old StarTrek books I destroyed, I really didn't
    mind that much.
    _Marty