Conference noted::sf

By Crom you're right!

		I know Howard commited suicide and all, but why????

					sam

The exact details are fuzzy in my memory, but the gist of it was that he was
depressed because his mother was dying.

As far as the Conan stories (and Howard's other work, for that matter) go,
personally I'm not that wild about them (I'm not wild about sword&sorcery in
general). I find Howard's writing style clumsy, though he often makes up for
it with his enthusiastic storytelling.

--- jerry

Re .0   Okay, okay.  You take the blood and battle, and I'll take the
	hot white flesh.

	oooooooohhhhhh.....

What do you mean, th movies aren't so good?  I have never read the Conan
series, so I was not dissapointed by variations from the original.  Some
friends of mine conjecture that the movies were made so far removed from
the stories in order to prevent even greater dissappointment over movies
that "come close enough to follow pattern but not enough to match
exactly".

		Beth

Actually, having read much of the Howard and de Camp & Carter Conan stuff,
I thought that the first movie had the right feel to it, though many details
varied (one of my housemates disagrees vehemently). The second movie, though,
was a disaster as far as I was concerned. It was played too campy, and didn't
have enough blood'n'guts (not that I'm a violence fan, but a Conan movie
*should* be violent).

--- jerry

Lot on your knife

Re: .7

I agree with your roommate.  The second movie was far superior, both as a 
movie and as a Conan movie.  

* * * Mini spoiler * * *

I knew the second one was going to be good when at the very beginning the 
riders are bearing down on Conan and the thief, and the thief says "Why are 
they upset? We didn't take all of the merchants money!" and Conan replies "Only 
because we didn't have time" just as he swings his sword and kills one of the 
riders.  For my money (and I have also read all of the Howard books, as well as 
a fair amount of the Carter and deCamp pastiches) that is pure Conan.

I knew the first one was going to be bad when they open with Conan's parents 
being killed, and him being taken as a slave and then a gladiator.  The first 
sounded like it was written by someone who was handed a list of names from the 
Howard books, with no explanation as to who was who, and was allowed to cut and 
modify as s/he pleased.  Thulsa Doom as the bad guy?  Thulsa Doom was King 
Kulls enemy, for heavens sake.

The first movie was completely wrong in all details of Conan's life, and was
a pretentious film to boot.  The second caught the true flavor of Conan, as
well as getting more details right.

								Ken Moreau

First of all, while my roommate thought the first film was a lousy Conan
movie, he thought it *was* a very good action/adventure movie. Secondly,
he (like me) thought the second movie stank to High Heaven.

What upset me most about the second movie was that it was played too camp.
The lack of blood'n'guts took second place to this. Conan was played as a
moron, which is nothing like he is in the stories. His whiney little sidekick
drove me up the walls, and couldn't *begin* to compare with Subotai from the
first film. The princess acted like a pre-historic Valley Girl --- I wouldn't
have been surprised if she started blowing gum-bubbles. And then, the make-up
and special effects were Awesomely BAD. The ape-man in Thoth-Amon's palace,
obviously taken from "Rogues in the House" had the worst make-up I have seen
in a loooonnnnnggggg time.

Regardless of the details about Conan's life, the first film gave a very
good picture of the violent world of the Hyborian Age, as well as presenting
a wonderful picture of the variety of cultures that were present in that age.
I thought the *feel* of it was pure Howard, which was far more important to
me than the superficial details. I'm not saying it was perfect -- far from it
-- but I thought it was better than the second as both an action/adventure
*and* a Conan film. On a 0-5 * scale, I would give the first film a *** and
the second a * (Grace Jones' bizarre performance keeps it from being a big
fat Zip).

--- jerry

Are we talking movies or the mythic Barbarian?  If the movies, I find it
hard to accept the Oriental swordslinging.

If the books, that's something else.

Howard was a storyteller more than anything else, and a self-taught writer.
The Conan character was a good one, because it's the kind of thing adoles-
cents (or the adolescent within us grownups), particularly adolescent males,
can empathize with.  _Conan the Conqueror_ (aka _Hour of the Dragon_ when
originally published) was a lovely story with all the best elements of a
fast action yarn.  In some respects it was silly (a truly powerful and evil
sorcerer should take out the hero _immediately_ if he has any sense, for
instance), but it hung together well and had a stardust feel about it.

Conan?  Why not?

Steve Kallis, Jr.

P.S.:  L. Sprague deCamp wrote a (padded) biography of Howard that
might interest Conan/Howard fans.

Re .4:  You want hot white flesh?  Chicken or veal? :-)

-SKjr

What's wrong with Oriental sword-slinging ?  It has style, adds much more
to the blood&guts than plain ole' chop&hack, and has general recognition
by the American public as a "deadly and brutal" activity.  Certainly beats
European fencing; which would have been ludicrous anyway.

    RE:  Movies
    
        They were pretty good if you haven't read any of Howards books.
    I enjoyed them as action/adventure movies, but had a hard time
    stomaching them as "Conan" movies.
    
    
    RE:  Books
    
         I love Conan books.  I think Howard had a marvelous sense of
    timing and humor.  There are so many amusing lines in his novels
    that I have found myself giggling inanely.  My dog thinks I'm very
    strange when this occurs.
         I even like a few of the new authors that are still doing his
    stories.  Robert Jordon is great for mood setting and Perry is
    very good at the humor.
    
    RE:  Artwork
    
         The best Conan artist, as far as I'm concerned, is Ken Kelly.
    I know all you Vallejo and Frazzetta fans will protest, but I
    prefer his color scheme.
    
    
                                       L.J.