Conference noted::sf

The Destroyer is a series of (latest count) 60 books. It's an action/adventure
series with some fantasy overtones. Some of the books in the series are out-
right sf or fantasy, plotwise, though most aren't. If you can find them, they
are most likely to be found in the bookstore's mystery section.

A brief overview of the series:

The main character is Remo Williams, an ex-policeman who was framed for a
murder he did not commit, and sentenced to the electric chair. The execution
was, of course, faked, and when Remo awoke, he found out that he'd been
recruited by CURE, a super-secret crime-fighting organization. It was set
up to fight crime by using criminal methods itself --- bribery, threats, and
now, assassination (which is why it's super-secret). Remo was elected to be
CURE's "enforcement arm" (meaning assassin).
	To train Remo, CURE's director brought in Chuin, the Master of
Sinanju, an ancient Korean house of assassins, the best in the world. The
art of Sinanju is supposed to be the true martial art of which all others
(karate, kung fu, ninjutsu, etc.) are mere bastardizations. Chuin expected
to teach Remo merely a few simple tricks so that he could be an above average
martial artist, but finds that Remo takes to learning Sinanju like no other
before him, and becomes quite adept at it. Chuin then becomes convinced that
Remo is the prophesied reincarnation of Shiva the Destroyer (the prophesy is
basicly that Shiva would return as a white man who would become the greatest
Master of Sinanju). Thus, Chuin ends up sticking around, training Remo to be
his successor in the House, while Remo goes about his duties as CURE's
assassin.

The general fantasy overtones of the series are two-fold. First, there are
hints given here and there throughout the early books in the series that Remo
really *is* the reincarnation of Shiva. Secondly, many of the feats that Remo
and Chuin accomplish with ease are quite plainly impossible.

As for the plots, as I said, most are simple action/adventure, though some
are sf/fantasy. In one (#5: DR. QUAKE), the villain develops an earthquake
machine. In another (#32: KILLER CHROMOSOMES), Remo fights a genetically
engineered tiger-woman. In three of them, Remo fights a robot named Mr. Gordons.
And so forth and so on.

So how are they? In a word, terrific! They are basicly trash, but highly
enjoyable trash. What sets them apart from other such series is the handling
of the characters. First, the authors never take the situations or the
characters seriously. The books are written very tongue-in-cheek. Secondly,
the interaction between Remo and Chuin is highly entertaining. Chuin is an
absolute scream. He is a bigot that makes Archie Bunker look like a bleeding
heart liberal, and is always putting down Remo as a total imcompetent (he
secretly loves Remo as a son, but he'd never admit this to Remo). And Remo
is a rather droll, sardonic kind of guy who mostly succeeds from sheer luck.

The earlier books are the best (except for the first one, which was written
many years before the second, and basicly tries to be serious. It's awful).
The third book (CHINESE PUZZLE) is the first that really started to capture
the flavor of the series. The authors of the first 35 books are Richard Sapir
and Warren Murphy. For a few books thereafter, Murphy wrote alone, then he
started using a ghost writer, mostly a woman he later married. Now Sapir is
in charge of the series, though at least one of his is ghost-written, too,
by a friend of mine in fact.
	Anyways, few of the books after #30 or so are really that good, though
some are excellent. After I refresh my memory a little, I'll list which books
in the series I've found to be the best. If you're interested, that is.

--- jerry

Hooray! "The Destroyer" rides again!

The entire staff of the Data Processing Department at Western Wyoming
Community College (yep, all three of us) were devout "Destroyer" fans for
years. I agree that the early books appear to be the best, but I've fallen
behind, and I don't think I've read anything past #50.

The books can be extremely bloody and sometimes quite nasty; the villains
make their henchpersons and victims do all sorts of appalling things. But,
as Jerry said, the tone is invariable tongue-in-cheek, and somehow the
gore doesn't matter. One of my favorites, in fact, is "Brain Drain" - #13,
I believe - and it's just about the goriest of the lot.

I haven't heard very much about the upcoming "Destroyer" movie, except
that they keep changing the title. I'm a bit worried about it, because
if the actors chosen for Remo and Chuin are not up to par, the movie
will flop.

As for the books - try one or two, and if you like 'em, rejoice that there
are sixty more out there! (The used-book stores carry most of them, in a
special section for "adventure series".)

	"I am created Shiva, the Destroyer;
	 Death, the shatterer of worlds..."

(How does the rest of it go?)

-b

Finally I can admit to being a closet Destroyer fan!  I agree with the earlier
implication that they are junk food for the mind.  Better that TV, and good
for a couple of hours of relaxation.

/s/ Chuck

You mean someone other than my wife and I read and enjoy Remo and Chiun?
For years we thought we were the only ones, and the publishers were making
up the "200 million copies sold" blurbs on the cover.

Total junk food for the mind.  I think the thing I enjoy most about this
series (and the thing that makes it far superior to another series which
started about the same time, but which is not nearly as good, Mack Bolan
the Executioner) is its humor, and its "interesting" social commentary.
                                                                       
								Ken Moreau

Well, we're all coming out of the closet here!  I too like these books,
and agree that the early ones were the better of the bunch. They're a
little bit too erratic now for my taste (this from someone who has a
halfway complete collection of Bbantam "Doc Savage" books!!!).

Nigel

By the way, no one yet has nodenames REMO or CHUIN/CHIUN/whatever

At least, I can't find them from NACHO

Nigel

		Out of the closet is right! I didn't even know whether 
	someone would answer! Wow. Maybe someone out there could tell
	me the name of a bookstore that *does* carry them, or even
	better, we could meet somewhere and I could borrow them from
	you. I think I'm gonna love this.

						sam(14)

Try the used book stores first.  They generally have a pretty good selection.
Better prices, too.  I'll be hitting the local Annie's Book Swap today.  I'll
let you know how they stand.

/s/ Chuck

re:.3(?) (Beth, anyways)

My friend, Will Murray, who ghosted that one Destroyer novel (#56 or there-
abouts, entitled ENCOUNTER GROUP) recently visited the set of the Destroyer
film in Mexico, for STARLOG. He says that what he's seen makes him very
optimistic.

Of course, you won't *believe* whom they've chosen to play Remo and Chiun...
Remo is being played by Fred Ward (who was Gus Grissom in THE RIGHT STUFF),
Chiun by --- I hope you're sitting down --- Joel Grey!   Will says that,
believe it or not, Grey does a tremendous job.

They've pretty much wrapped up filming. No word on a release date yet, though.


As far as the books go, the original publisher, Pinnacle, is re-issuing some
of the earlier books in a "Best of the Destroyer" series. The first one of
these was #3, which is a good one, though the other two I've seen (I forget
which ones, at the moment) weren't among what I'd consider the best.

Anyways, the last three of so books are out from a new publisher --- Signet.
(Well, Signet isn't a new publisher, per se, but new for the Destroyer.)

Pinnacle also released a trade paperback called THE ASSASSIN'S HANDBOOK (also
put together by the aforementioned Will Murray) which, among other things,
includes a novelette called "The Day Remo Died" (his faked death, not a real
one).

And by the way, Beth, BRAIN DRAIN was #22.

--- jerry

I believ they were #5 and #10 although I forget the titles. I too am an avid
DESTOYER reader. I have read all 60 books plus The Assassins's Handbook.

Ken

Re .9:

OK, Jerry, quit showing off!

I remember now - #13 was the one about the Maharishi Somebody-or-other,
obviously patterned after - oh, what was his name - hey, a trivia question!
Anyhow, he was the tubby kid who was driving Cadillacs and making like
the Rev. Moon, about fifteen years back.

If there isn't already some "Destroyer" trivia in TRIVIA, we could get
something going here...

-b

p.s. Joel Grey???!!!??? This I'll have to see!

Ah, Beth, don't hit me... please? The one about the Maharishi was #19: HOLY
TERROR. #13 was entitled ACID ROCK. Unfortunately, I don't remember the details
of the plot.

Anyways, I went through my set of Destroyers and have come up with a list of
what I consider the 10 best. They are in numerical order.

# 3  CHINESE PUZZLE	The first one to really get a handle on Chiun's back-
			ground and to set the (humorous) tone for the series.

# 7  UNION BUST		The first of a series-within-the-series featuring Remo's
			arch-nemesis, Nuihc (read it backwards and you may see
			a clue). The second and third of this sub-series are not
			among the best, but they are worth reading for the com-
			plete reading of Remo's battle with Nuihc. They are
			#10: TERROR SQUAD and #16: OIL SLICK.

#14  JUDGEMENT DAY	This one focuses upon Harold Smith, the director of
			CURE, as someone finds out about the organization and
			what it does. He manages to wrest control of CURE from
			Smith and sicks Remo and Chuin on their former boss.
			Smith was never a well-developed character until now.
			By the time the book ends, you can have nothing but
			admiration for him.

#15  MURDER WARD	The villain in this one develops a drug that causes
			people to age tremendously and die within minutes.
			It's not that it's so particularly well-written as
			that it has many hilarious moments.
				Happy Feast of the Pig!

#20  ASSASSIN'S PLAYOFF	This is the fourth and final (sort of) book featuring
			Nuihc. This brings to a head the whole concept of Remo
			being the reincarnation of Shiva. For characterization,
			it's the second-best of the whole series. For suspense,
			it's the best.

#27  THE LAST TEMPLE	This one isn't that highly thought of by Sapir or
			Murphy, as it was one of three ghost-written by a guy
			named Rick Meyers. I, however, really enjoyed it,
			mostly because it gave a sense of history to Remo's
			exploits. It does this by harkening back to an earlier
			book (#2: DEATH CHECK). With the exception of the ones
			in which villains such as Nuihc or Mr. Gordons reap-
			peared, this was almost never done. Plus, it featured
			a leading lady who was more than just decoration.
			(One of the weakest points of the series was that it
			had very few strong female characters.)

#29  THE FINAL DEATH	Another one ghost-written by Meyers, featuring Remo's
			fight against a race of Chinese "vampires" (it never
			said explicitly whether they were actually vampires or
			not). Like THE LAST TEMPLE, this was a tad more serious
			than the usual Destroyer novel, but it was entertaining
			nonetheless. And it also poked fun at Trekkies.

#44  BALANCE OF POWER	This is a curiosity. The main character in this book
			is not Remo nor Chiun nor Smith, but an aging CIA man.
			Apparently, this was a revised form of an unsold non-
			Destroyer novel that was rewritten to include Remo and
			the others. As such, it's not a great Destroyer novel,
			but it is a good book.

#53  TIME TRIAL		Archaeologists (and later Remo and Chiun, of course)
			come across a time machine (from the future) that ends
			up transporting them to ancient Yucatan. Quite a well-
			done time-travel story.

#55  MASTER'S CHALLENGE	For characterization, this is probably the best in the
			series. Once a generation, there is a series of fights
			(to the death) among the masters of the four great
			Houses of Assassins. Chiun won the previous Challenge,
			so now it's Remo's turn. Of course you can guess who
			wins, but it's what happens along the way that's the
			best part. Remo learns both humility and true love. The
			ending is a real tear-jerker for those who've followed
			Remo's exploits for a while. There's also an unexpected
			extra contestant in the Challenge --- the Dutchman, who
			is the protege of Nuihc. The Dutchman appeared in one
			previous book, the otherwise excreble #46: NEXT OF KIN
			(my nominee for worst novel in the series).

Those are what I consider the Top 10. Runners-up are:

# 2: DEATH CHECK		#18: FUNNY MONEY (the first with Mr. Gordons)
#17: THE LAST WAR DANCE		#22: BRAIN DRAIN (the second  "   "     "   )
#25: SWEET DREAMS		#30: MUGGER BLOOD
#32: KILLER CHROMOSOMES		#33: VOODOO DIE
#48: PROFIT MOTIVE (the first with "Friend", who was supposed to be a recurring
	nemesis, but so far hasn't returned)
#56: ENCOUNTER GROUP (I could be biased, since this is by a friend, but I think
	that Will really caught the flavor of the characters just right. Two of
	my housemates read it without knowing it was by Will and they enjoyed
	it as well, as did another friend (another friend of Will) who never
	before read a Destroyer novel.)

In general, among my favorites are the ones in which the villain of the novel
is someone who can give Remo a run for his money, like Nuihc or Mr. Gordons
or the various folks in MASTER'S CHALLENGE.

I'd be interested in how others of you Destroyer fans feel about these.

--- jerry

OK, OK, so I don't remember the numbers. That's the biz, sweetheart.

I agree with most of your favorites, and will have to look for the ones
you recommend since #40 (when I stopped following the series).

By the way, does anyone know who was cast as Smith in the movie? (Hey,
if they ever do one of the "Mr. Gordons" ones, how about Arnold 'The
Terminator'?)

-b	"Blow it out your ears, Little Father."

Either Will didn't tell me who was playing Smith, or I'd forgotten.

I'd always thought that a great person to play Remo would have been
John Saxon. He knows enough martial arts to fake it (see ENTER THE DRAGON)
and he's a terrible actor --- just right for Remo. :-) Unfortunately, Saxon
probably a tad too old now.


--- jerry

Burgess Meredith as Smith?????

	RE: .14

	John Saxon may be a terrible actor (no argument there) but I
	wouldn't mind having some of his $$...  :-)

						mike

About the movie:

I just saw a very brief clip for the movie a few days ago.  I don't remember
the name, but I think it is something very creative (like "Remo Williams").
According to the blurb it is supposed to open in the Boston area on 10/11/85.
Get a very brief glimpse of Chiun and think the make-up job leaves a little
something to be desired (this opinion may change when I can see the character
for more than a 1/4 of a second).

From the clips, all I can say is that the movie looks like it is full of
"sound and fury", signifying... (?).  I guess that means that the movie is
"action packed".

Does anyone else know any more (apologies for the sketchiness of my "report",
but the whole thing lasted about 10 seconds and I didn't realize what I was
looking at until it was half-way through).
                                                       
						Michael
                                                                

I've put a review of "Remo Williams..." into the MOVIES notes file, but wanted
to comment here. I enjoyed the film very much, and although it wasn't perfect I
was far from disappointed. My husband, who hasn't read any of the "Destroyer"
series, enjoyed it too. (He actually trained with a Korean martial-arts
instructor for quite some time, and found Chiun's blatant prejudice against
Chinese, whites, women, and anything non-Korean to be pretty much right on.) 

Hint for the trivia-philes: watch the names on the gravestones during the
cemetery scene.

-b                    

re:.18

I was just going over this note again, and I realized that I forgot to look
at the other gravestones. Well, I want to see the film again, so I'll try
to remember.

I also want to mention that THE ASSASSIN'S HANDBOOK has been reissued in
a revised (updated) edition [the updates mostly have to do with including
some info about the movie] under the title INSIDE SINANJU, which I think
was what Will Murray originally wanted to call it. It's a mass-market
paperback this time, rather than a trade paperback.

Also, there is a novelization of the film that was written by Sapir and
Murphy. I suppose that, except for the little changes in details (like
Remo's original name being changed to Sam Makin), this could serve as a
revised/alternate version of the first novel. I haven't read it yet (I'm
behind on my Destroyer reading; the last one I read was #56) so I can't
say how it is.

--- jerry

Having just about completed the Daremo series by W. Barker, and having
just seen REMO WILLIAMS, I thought it would be fun to start up on the
DESTROYER series; one obstacle. WHERE CAN ONE FIND THOSE BOOKS ?

I live in Boston's Metrowest area (centered around Framingham); anyone
have any suggestions (Boston to Worcester range is no problem).

Thanks,
Dwight

Any garbage dump should have a wide assortment of Destroyer books; or
try airport bookstores, or any other place which sells fine literature....

(-:  Seriously, try any of the Annie's Book Swap stores... they've usually
got a couple stashed away somewhere.

There's also another used-paperback store in Framingham called something
like The Second Performance Bookstore; it's located at Framingham Centre
(the little shopping center on Route 9 at Edgell Road).

Not all of the Destroyer books are in print, so a used-book store is your
best bet. For other used-book stores, look in a yellow pages under "Books--
Used and Rare".

--- jerry

    This coming Monday evening (15 Aug) at 8:00, ABC is showing a
    one-hour REMO WILLIAMS tv pilot. The TV GUIDE entry says:
    
    	"Roddy McDowall plays a Korean martial-arts master
    	assigned to get the cocksure Remo Williams (Jeffrey
    	Meek) in mental and physical shape for secret
    	Government missions. Based on 'The Destroyer' series,
    	which also inspired the 1985 film of the same name.
    	A pilot not on ABC's announced fall schedule."
    
    --- jerry

    I saw the clip for the "Remo Williams" pilot.  The makeup job for Roddy
    McDowell is terrible, far inferior to Joel Grey's.  I'll probably watch
    it anyway, but I don't think I'll like it as much as the Fred Ward/Joel
    Grey version.
    
    I find it curious that Chiun, a Korean, would think of Remo as the
    incarnation of Shiva, when Shiva is a Hindu god and Korea is largely
    Buddhist.  Do the books explain this or is it a case of a broad
    application of an eastern stereotype? 
    
    BTW, Sinanju is a pretty good Korean-sounding word, but most Korean
    martial arts end with "do" as in "tae kwon do" and "hwarang do". Does
    anyone know if "Sinanju" is translated in the books?  I have some ideas
    about what it means, but would like to see what the books say. 
    
    Wook 
    
    (who's at least 30 generations Korean)

    
    
    In the book, Sinanju is the name of the village that Chuin comes
    from.  Therefor, the name of the Sun-Source of all martial arts
    bears the name of the village that discovered it.
    
    I'm sure that someone else could give you a better idea.  I've only
    just started reading the books. They're great!
    
    I, too, find it a little hard to imagine Roddy McDowell as Chuin,
    but I'll reserve judgement until I see the show.  But I'll miss
    the Grey/Ward team too.
    
    
    *Sigh*
    
    
    -mishel

    	re: Sinanju vs *do
    
    	Well, Karate-do (Tranlates to "the way of empty hands" or "the way 
    of China hands") is usually abbreviated to just Karate ("Empty Hands"
    or "China Hands").  So perhaps Sinanju is just an abbrieviation.
    
    	Or perhaps its suffux is Jitsu meaning "skill".  (Like Jiujitsu,
    Aikijitsu, ninjitsu, etc.)
    
    	And now back to SF...
    
    tlh, 
    yonkyu aikidoka
    (4th class student of Aikido, i.e. Blue belt)

    re: .25
    
    Sinanju as a village name makes much more sense as far as Korean
    is concerned.  There are a lot of cities (and villages) in Korea
    that end in "-ju", eg. Kwangju, Chonju, Kyungju.
    
    I still find it strange that Chiun would believe that Remo was the
    incarnation of Siva (or Shiva).  I would have expected him to be
    Buddhist, Confucian, or perhaps Taoist or even an Animist, but then
    again maybe he was all of these and Hindu to boot.
    
    I'll have to read the books.
    
    Wook

    	My point about the ending "-do" was just that no matter how
    they name the art, whether with a description of the art (Tae Kwon
    Do - The way of smashing things with your fist and destroying them
    with your foot ), a description of the philsophy (Aikido - The way
    in harmony with nature), or where it came from (Karatedo- The way of
    China Hands), Do just means the "The way".  It is not necessarily
    always said (as in karate).  It seems entirely feasable to me to
    have a art named Sinanju-do (The way of sinanju; the way of the
    eople from sinanju) that is abbrieviated to Sinanju.
                                                     
    tlh