Conference noted::sf

    I think they were married at one time, but no longer.  Vernor
    Vinge also wrote the classic novel of hackers-in-virtual-reality,
    "True Names".  Remember how a sorceror had to hide his true
    name to keep his enemies from gaining power over him? 
    Well, the same goes for cyber-sorcerors, except that their true
    names are things like their social security numbers and their
    real-space addresses.  In this story, the hacker elite have built
    a clubhouse somewhere in net-land where the IRS can't
    find them.  One of them is discovered by primitive but effective
    methods and put to discover who among the others is a traitor and
    possible Menace to Mankind.  It's a lot of fun, although it's
    frightening to think of that kind of power in the hands of
    basically adolescents.
    
    Vinge also wrote a novel called "Grimm's World" about a
    superhuman woman among ordinaries, and a fantasy called "The
    Witling" whose point escapes me at the moment.  In real life he's
    on a computer science faculty somewhere in southern
    California.    

    /jlr

    
    Cool!  got any ISBN numbers?
    
    Thanks,
    Helen

	_Across Realtime_  ISBN: 0-671-72098-8 (Baen)

	gathers _The Peace War_, "The Ungoverned", and _Marooned in Realtime_
	into a single volume

    Vinge's latest is "A Fire Upon the Deep".  This is an "epic" novel,
    set in the very distant future.  It's one of the best I've read in a
    while.
    
    Without giving too much of the story away, I'll summarize by saying
    the novel is based on a few key ideas:
    
    	the mass density of the galaxy affects the local physical laws
        (specifically, the ability to travel faster than light, and the
    	level of intelligence achievable by biological and mechanical
    	systems)
    
    	interesting aliens - a species of doglike sapients (the Tines) who
    	only reach real intelligence in small packs, by a sort of ultrasonic
    	"telepathy"; another species (the skroderiders) with very limited 
    	short term memory and mobility, who are "uplifted" (in Brin's
    	sense) by cartlike contraptions whose origin is shrouded in mystery
    	by the passage of millions of years.
    
    	a galactic Internet, complete with newsgroups
    
    	galactic scale computer viruses
    
    If there's any cause for disappointment, it's that so much of Vinge's
    galactic vision is so familiar.  The aliens, while interesting, pretty
    much think and behave like humans, with a few obvious differences made
    necessary by their physical limitations.  And the network is just too
    familiar.
    
    Be that all as it may, the story is still engrossing; with a little
    "willful suspension of disbelief" this a great read.
    
    len.
     
     

    These guys that are uplifted by the cartlike contraptions....that
    sounds a lot like the old joke about wheelbarrows and teaching the
    Irish to walk on their hind legs...
    
    Richard (who is from that part of the world anyway, so save the
    accusations of ethnic slurs 8*) )

    I also just finished _A Fire Upon The Deep_.  The two alien races
    that play significant roles are certainly interesting -- the others
    mentioned are less so.
    
    While the milieu in general was interesting, I thought the story
    dragged a bit, and it also suffered from
    
    <spoiler>
    
    a "deus ex machina" resolution.  Arrgh.
    
    >Mark

    I recently read this as well...
    
    Found it to be engrossing; one thing that particularly caught my fancy
    was the quite reasonable reaction of the many intelligences in the
    galaxy to the destruction of whole civilizations/species, their
    evolutionary life-cycles etc. Quite thought provoking...
    
    	Dave

I was rather surprised that I couldn't find a topic on Joan D Vinge. This seems
to be as close as it gets.

Anyway, I've just finished the Summer Queen. It wasn't as good (IMO) as the Snow
Queen or Catspaw but not a bad read. 

The mers are an interesting species. The plot winds around a secret that can
save the worlds of the Hegemony but only the Summer Queen knows the truth and
she is bound from telling it. Meanwhile, the mers are slaughtered once again to
provide 'the water of life' (their blood) so that rich politicos can lead long
and youthful lives.

The mers are seal like and speak in song that seems unintelligable to humans.
This book is definately what I would call science fantasy. The 'science' is a
microbiotic intellegence that can be injected into the blood to alter a person
or created to make star drive plasma. 

My real complaint about the book are the sex scenes. There aren't many thank
heavens. They read like poor romance novels. This surprised me because she did
an execellent job describing telepathic sex in Catspaw. Some of the plot line
was a bit melodramtic also. Maybe that explains it. liesl

From:	US1RMC::"extropians@extropy.org" "MAIL-11 Daemon"  2-SEP-1993 
To:	Extropians@extropy.org
CC:	
Subj:	SCIFI: Vernor Vinge Article

        "Award-winning writer up for another honor"

   Vernor Vinge sold his first science fiction short story in 1964,
when he was a senior in high school in Okemos, Mich.  But the
Wisconsin native wasn't thinking of a writing career then; he wanted
to be "an astronaut, a physicist or a mathematician," he recalls now. 

   Math won, and after graduating from Michigan State University, he
came to San Diego in 1966 to do graduate work at UCSD. A couple of
years later he sold his first novel. 

  "That novel was solicited based on a short story I had had
published," said Vinge, a math sciences professor at San Diego State
University since 1972. 

[Vernor's pic here]

  "Breaking into writing books is hard, but if you've established a
reputation with magazine writing, it's easier.  The pay isn't good, 
but you get all sorts of exposure." 

  Since then, Vinge's profile has steadily risen among science fiction
fans and his fellow writers.  Over the years, he has been a runner-up
for the prestigious Hugo Award four times, for his novels "The Peace
War" (1984) and "Marooned in Realtime" (1986), a novella "True Names"
(1981) and a novelette. 

  His latest novel, "A Fire Upon the Deep," is also a Hugo contender,
nominated for this year's prize to be presented Labor Day weekend in
San Francisco. 

  Vinge says he writes science fiction because "it's what I know. 
Actually half of the trick for success ... is being familiar with the
genre, which is a high-flown way of saying I wasted a great amount of
time reading an enormous number of stories." 

  Recently, Vinge has been intrigued with the almost incomprehensible
speed of change anticipated in the next 30 years as computers become
more and more "intelligent." 

  Many people have talked about that, but most just stop there," he
said.  "But what happens three months later? ... It makes it very hard
to write science fiction since one option is all-encompassing disaster, 
the other is bugs in the wall -- humans become a lower life form." 

  Vinge's solution in "A Fire Upon the Deep" was to create
interstellar empires that "allowed me to be faithful to the notion
that these changes are going to happen and yet still have human-size
activities going on." 

  In this excerpt, the human Johanna works in a hospital, unaware of
the danger she faces from a guard Tine, a "pack" creature composed of
many members, that has human intelligence. 

                                -- Mary Hellman, Books Editor

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

   "A tale of survival in a world where the whole is greater 
    than the sum of its parts."

   "All Chitiratte need do was give the signal, and the duo
    would tead the human apart.  A great tragedy."

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

        The Times are a race of packs.
        Each individual is a group of
        four to seven members.  Apart,
        those members are about as
        smart as a bright dog: Together,
        the members of a pack make a be-
        ing of human intelligence. Johan-
        na is a lone human caught deep
        in the medieval intrigues of the
        Tines' World:

  "Now that Vendacious had found a way past the enemy's defenses,
everyone was anxious to break camp, but ..." 

 [[The excerpt, from Chapter 35, went from p.460 line 2 to p.465
   line 14, and Vernor (who apparently edited the excerpt) made 
   some appropriate substitutions so that readers could follow it.
   Instead of "mantis" he used the word "human"; instead of 
   "Flenserist forces" he used the word "enemy"; etc. ]]

  "One of Kratzi's heads was looking in Chitiratte's direction,
waiting for the signal.  Now the human picked up the bowls and knelt
beside the duo ---" 

John McPherson         mcpherso@lumina.ucsd.edu         (619) 534-4717
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Life -->  Individual  -->  Net Extropic  -->  Free  -->  Free Market
         Human Action       Production        Trade        Economy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
       hardcore signature virus: "As a juror in a Trial by Jury, 
       you have the right, power and duty to acquit the defendant 
                if you judge the law itself to be unjust."

% ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ======
% To: Extropians@extropy.org
% Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 15:40:50 -0700
% From: mcpherso@lumina.ucsd.edu (John McPherson)
% X-Original-To: Extropians@extropy.org, dkrieger@Synopsys.COM
% Subject: SCIFI: Vernor Vinge Article
% Reply-To: extropians@extropy.org

Article: 539
From: aaron@amisk.cs.ualberta.ca (Humphrey Aaron V)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews
Subject: Prograde Reviews--Joan D. Vinge:The Summer Queen
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 16:58:01 GMT
Organization: not specified
 
Joan D. Vinge: The Summer Queen
 
A Prograde Reviews by Aaron V. Humphrey
 
[spoilers for _The Snow Queen_ and _World's End_ herein]
 
This is an incredible trilogy.  Yes, despite what I'm told on the
cover, _The Snow Queen_ and _The Summer Queen_ does not make a
complete unit, without the volume _World's End_ in between.  A few
scenes from it are excerpted in _The Summer Queen_, and its
synopsized, but I still consider it an essential part. 
 
If I tried to synopsize _The Summer Queen_, I'd end up with a long
boring message.  So I'll just summarize the setup, which will take
long enough: Tiamat is a planet orbiting a multiple-star system that
includes a black hole; it thus has "Summer" and "Winter" each lasting
close to a century. The once-mighty Terran Empire fell many years ago,
and several of its secrets, including the manipulation of
"smartmatter", have been lost.  Its stardrive technology had also been
lost, but travel via black holes was possible, so eight worlds linked
by such travel formed a loose alliance called The Hegemony.  Tiamat
was not part of the Hegemony, and access was only possible during
Winter because of the position of the stars in the system. 
 
In Tiamat's oceans live creatures called mers, who are semi-humanoid
and exchange beautiful songs.  Their blood, however, is the reason the
Hegemony is interested in Tiamat, since from it can be made "the water
of life", which provides immortality if one takes it regularly. 
 
Then there are sibyls.  Some humans infected with the sibyl virus die,
or go insane.  Others become connected to the sibyl net, a vast
network who can consult one of the databases of the old empire. 
Lately, though, the sibyl net has become slightly unreliable... 
 
Kharemough, the dominant world of the Hegemony, has a caste system of
Technicians, Nontechnicians, and Unclassifieds.  Technicians, the
highest class, use initials as their names, and follow a policy of
"death before dishonor". 
 
Native Tiamatans are divided into Summers, who are fairly "primitive"
and rule during the time the offworlders are gone, and Winters, who
are dominant when the offworlders are present and love the technology
they bring. 
 
Now, the characters.  Moon Dawntreader Summer is the Summer Queen,
in actuality a clone of Arienrhod, the former Snow Queen.  She is
striving to introduce technology to the Summers, and save the mers. 
She also has a strong rapport with the sibyl net.  Sparks Dawntreader
Summer is her husband, a former lover of Arienrhod's and a slayer of
mers under her aegis. 
 
BZ Gundhalinu is a Kharemoughi who was a Police Commander on Tiamat,
until he and Moon were stranded together with nomads and she saved his
life; they fell in love, and he left her pregnant with twins.  When he
went in search of his brothers, who had lost his family's property, on
the planet Number Four, he went into the nightmarish place called
World's End, got infected with the sibyl virus, and discovered a
source of the stardrive plasma, which would make it possible to return
to Tiamat in Summer, among other things...he was made a hero and
chosen to lead the stardrive project. 
 
Jerusha PalaThion was Gundhalinu's superior, an offworlder who fell in
love with a Ngenet Miroe, a Tiamatan smuggler and mer-studier, and
decided to stay when the rest of the offworlders left.  Kirard Set
Wayaways Winter is a former supporter of Arienrhod who is highly
skilled at the art of manipulation. 
 
Reede Kullervo is a driven man with a knack for manipulating
smartmatter, a fragmented memory of his past, and a dependence on "the
water of death", his failed attempt to duplicate the water of life,
which sustains him as long as he continued to take it but will kill him 
painfully when he stops.  Ariele and Tammis are Moon's twin children. 
 
Finally, there is an organization named Survey which is behind much of
the activity in the Hegemony; it is divided into two factions, the
Golden Mean (good guys)and the Brotherhood (bad guys).  They both want
control of the stardrive plasma and/or the water of life. 
 
The book starts slowly, especially the scenes on Tiamat, which is
fairly uneventful until Gundhalinu contacts Moon to warn her that the
offworlders are returning...and Moon discovers that the mers _are_ the
sibyl net, but that for its protection she is forbidden to tell anyone. 
 
Once the book finally gets moving and all the players are on Tiamat,
it doesn't let up until pages from the end.  Vinge is not amiss to
doing nasty things to her characters, and certainly don't expect them
all to be alive at the end.  It's a majestic and intricately woven
book--I'd have to add formidable, in all senses of the word, as well,
since it took me longer to read than _Les Miserables_, albeit in a
busy week... 
 
I'm almost sorry that Vinge seems to have closed off the story,
although anything more would be anticlimax.  Read it and its prequels,
if you haven't already.  You won't regret it. 
 
%A Vinge, Joan D.
%T The Summer Queen
%I Warner Questar
%C New York
%D Copyright 1991
%G ISBN 0-446-36251-4
%P 949 pp.
%S Tiamat
%V Book 3
%O Paperback, US$5.99, Can$6.99
 
--
--Alfvaen(Editor of Communique)
Current Album--Mae Moore:Bohemia
Current Read--Robert Reed:The Remarkables
"curious george swung down the gorge/the ants took him apart"  --billbill

re: .-1

The chapter with Gundhalinu and Kullervo at Fire Lake was really the best
part of this book...very psychologically suspenseful since they were avatars
of two former lovers (and not conscious of it) but it seemed impossible for
either one to get away without murdering the other.  The whole nature of
the mers and their blood's value seemed technically improbable to me though.
And the various emotional complications of Moon and her family seemed a bit
too pot-boiler.
								- paul

Article: 588
From: ROBERTS@decus.ca (Rob Slade)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews,alt.books.reviews,alt.culture.usenet
Subject: "A Fire Upon the Deep" by Vinge
Date: 13 May 1994 07:01:21 GMT
Organization: DECUS Canada Communications
Sender: mcb@postmodern.com (Michael C. Berch)
 
"A Fire Upon the Deep", Vernor Vinge (vinge@saturn.sdsu.edu), 1992, 
0-812-51528-5, U$5.99, C$6.99
Tor Books, Tom Doherty Associates, Inc.
175 Fifth Avenue
New York, NY  10010
 
Vinge's novel is a well-crafted story which happens to have a very
solid insight into aspects of the current Internet and Usenet.  The
plot line has consistent and well built tension that is maintained
right up to the end.  The characters are interesting and develop in
believable ways during the course of the book.  Some of the plot
devices, such as "group" minds connected by ultrasound links and
"zones" within the galaxy wherein the laws of physics change
sufficiently as to allow faster than light travel or disallow rational
thought are strictly fantasy.  Somehow, though, the more outre
concepts are believable, or at least we are willing to suspend
disbelief.  Less believable, perhaps, is that the galactic net is RFC
822 compliant. 
 
(The cover blurb states that this is a classic space opera from the
Golden Age of science fiction.  In many ways this is true: an exciting
and swashbuckling space tale, complete with privateer, but updated,
more consistent and constructed.) 
 
A part of the major plot is activity on the galactic communications
net.  This is not central to the story, and could have been replaced
by something else, but it is remarkably accurate.  There is even
mention of the need for antenna arrays, given the great distances
involved (and in spite of faster than light communications).  OSI fans
will be gratified that the presentation layer is represented by a
translation field.  Even some "net types" are identifiable: "Twirlip
of the Mists" is a relative of all newbies and the ubiquitous B1FF--
and is, appropriately, completely irrelevant to the story. 
 
Some commentators on the Internet have seen, in this story, reference
to a type of "information virus" which infects the thought, and
affects the behaviour, of those to whom it is "told".  This goes a
long way beyond the bounds of the actual text.  We know that a certain
force is awakened, and that its sphere of influence shows startling
growth.  We are not, however, told anything at all about the mechanism. 
 
Ironically, it is the similarity of the galactic net to Usenet that
may be least credible.  An unmoderated net will be culturally very
similar.  There is discussion of the commercial aspects of the net
(quite frequently, in fact) but it is likely that the messages in the
book are of the type that could be seen "piggybacking" on excess
bandwidth from other applications. 
 
Enjoyable and recommended.
 
copyright Robert M. Slade, 1994   BKFIRDEP.RVW   940225
 
%A Vinge, Vernor
%T A Fire Upon the Deep
%I Tor Books
%C New York
%D 1992
%G 0-812-51528-5
%O pb, USD5.99, CAD6.99
 
======================
DECUS Canada Communications, Desktop, Education and Security group newsletters
Editor and/or reviewer ROBERTS@decus.ca, RSlade@sfu.ca, Rob Slade at 1:153/733
DECUS Symposium '95, Toronto, ON, February 13-17, 1995, contact: rulag@decus.ca
 

Article: 3708
From: danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny Yee)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews,alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.books
Subject: Book Review - Roadside Picnic / World's End
Date: 11 Jun 1994 19:14:54 GMT
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, Sydney University, Australia
Sender: mcb@postmodern.com (Michael C. Berch)
 
     title: Roadside Picnic
        by: Arkady and Boris Strugatsky
translated: Antonina W. Bouis
 publisher: Penguin 1979
  subjects: science fiction
     other: 160 pages
   summary: aliens litter Earth
 
     title: World's End
        by: Joan D. Vinge
 publisher: Tom Doherty Associates 1984
  subjects: science fiction
     other: 284 pages
 
_Roadside Picnic_ is the novel on which Tarkovsky's film _Stalker_ was
based.  Aliens have visited the Earth, leaving behind the Zones, places
of immense danger where incomprehensible technological wonders can
be found.  A frontier culture has developed around these areas, where
"stalkers" risk their lives in illegal expeditions to extract items.
This is a powerful but understated portrayal of mankind facing the
unknown.
 
_World's End_, a sequel to the Hugo award winning _The Snow Queen_,
has an very similar setting.  World's End is a localised area where
ordinary physics is warped and reality is somewhat unstable, and
where down-at-heel adventurers try to make their fortune prospecting.
In this case the plot is rather different, with the focus on the
individual quest of the protagonist to find himself and an ongoing
plot rather than the broader view of the Strugatskys.  Whether Vinge
copied from the Strugatskys' novel is not clear, but _Roadside Picnic_
is, in my opinion, by far the better novel.
 
%A 	Strugatsky, Arkady 
%A	Strugatsky, Boris 
%T 	Roadside Picnic
%I 	Penguin
%C 	Harmondsworth UK
%D 	1979
%G 	ISBN 0-14-00-5135-X
%P 	160pp
%O 	paperback, translated by Antonina W. Bouis
 
%A	Vinge, Joan D. 
%T 	World's End
%I 	Tom Doherty Associates
%C 	New York
%D 	1984
%G 	ISBN 0-812-52368-7
%P 	284pp
%O 	paperback
 
--
Danny Yee (danny@cs.su.oz.au)
10 June 1994
 

    
    I'm almost done with a reread of a A Fire On the Deep.  Just as
    impressive, maybe even more so, the second time around.
    
    len.