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Title:Arcana Caelestia
Notice:Directory listings are in topic 2
Moderator:NETRIX::thomas
Created:Thu Dec 08 1983
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1300
Total number of notes:18728

895.0. "Robert Goddard and Werner von Braun" by WR1FOR::HOGGE_SK (Dragon Slaying...No Waiting!) Tue Jul 31 1990 22:34

    Robert H. Goddard was a German who came to America after promises
    of "freedom of research" when Germany was forcing him to concentrat
    his research on development of rockets as weapons only.
    
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895.1Goddard's As American As Apple PieDRUMS::FEHSKENSlen, EMA, LKG2-2/W10, DTN 226-7556Wed Aug 01 1990 15:558
    I believe Robert H. Goddard was born and raised in Worcester MA, but I 
    could be wrong about that.  I am an ex-rocketeer from way back and have
    never heard anything to the effect that Goddard was a German
    expatriate.  I believe you are confusing him with someone else (Hermann
    Oberth or such, perhaps?).
    
    len.
     
895.2WRKSYS::KLAESAll the Universe, or nothing!Wed Aug 01 1990 16:2115
    	Robert H. Goddard was born in Worcester, Massachusetts, USA on
    October 5, 1882 and died in August of 1945.  Goddard is credited 
    with launching the first liquid-fueled rocket on March 16, 1926, 
    on his Aunt Effie's farm in Auburn, Mass.  He developed over 200
    new concepts for rocket designs.  He worked with only a small
    staff, and sadly was given little recognition in his lifetime.
    Goddard's plan in 1920 of launching a simple rocket to Earth's 
    Moon was met with ridicule in that era - the usual fate of geniuses 
    ahead of their time.
                                    
    	The German you are thinking of is either Wernher von Braun
    or Hermann Oberth.

    	Larry
    
895.3See, I Told Ya SoDRUMS::FEHSKENSlen, EMA, LKG2-2/W10, DTN 226-7556Wed Aug 01 1990 19:306
    Von Braun was captured at the end of the 2nd World War; he did not
    come to the US of his own volition.  I think we're narrowing it down
    to Oberth.
    
    len.
    
895.4Van Braun ACETEK::TIMPSONEat any good books lately?Thu Aug 02 1990 12:334
Van Braun surrendered to the US forces because he and others did not want to be
captured by the Soviet Forces.  Van Braun was not forced to come to the US.

Steve
895.5Yes, But...DRUMS::FEHSKENSlen, EMA, LKG2-2/W10, DTN 226-7556Thu Aug 02 1990 12:497
    I think he would have preferred to stay in Germany, that's all I meant
    by "not of his own volition".  I think the US was probably the lesser
    of two evils from his perspective.  Had he really wanted to emigrate
    he could have done so considerably earlier.
    
    len.
    
895.6More like "Escape"ATSE::WAJENBERGMake each day a bit surreal.Thu Aug 02 1990 13:496
    Re .12
    
    "Emigration" may not be the right term for trying to get out of
    Hitler's Germany in the middle of World War II.
    
    Earl Wajenberg
895.7notes moved by moderator actionSTAR::CANTORDiginymic name: D2E C0.Sun Aug 26 1990 21:355
The topic and first six replies were moved here by moderator action from
a totally unrelated topic.

Dave C.
mod
895.8A bot more about both subjects.HELIX::KALLISPumpkins -- Nature's greatest giftTue Feb 18 1992 19:2019
Robert Goddard was raised in Massachusetts, and he developed the first liquid-
fueled rocket, which he ignited by a blowtorch on a pole from a launch stand
ast his Aunt Effie's farm in Auburn, Mass. [A plaque commemmorating the event
was dedicated about 35 years ago by Wernher von Braun at the launch site, which
is currently part of a golf course.]  Goddard's health deteriorated, and he
moved to New Mexico to continue his owrk, which included gyrostabalized guidance
of rocket engines.

Wernher von Braun and a bunch of his Peenemunde cohorts decided to surrender
to the U.S. forces as the European theater of World War II was closing (he'd 
broken an arm and marched up, wearing a cast, to a sentry.  Since he was quite
young, it took a little to establish his bona-fides).  The Peenemunde staff
was brought over to the United States, along with a numvber of captured V-2
rockets, as part of the then-secret "Operation Paper Clip."  For legalistic 
purposes, they were later taken across the border to Mexico so that they could 
legitimately enter the United States.  The Peenemundians made jokes about the
whole procedure.

Steve Kallis, Jr.
895.9It wasn't Goddard who didn't get the ladlingVERGA::KLAESQuo vadimus?Wed Jan 12 1994 18:1728
Article: 81187
From: brett@airgun.wg.waii.com (Marc Brett)
Newsgroups: alt.journalism,soc.history,sci.space,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Gotham Rag Touts Martians!
Date: 12 Jan 1994 10:59:00 GMT
Organization: Western Geophysical, Div. of Western Atlas Int'l, Houston, TX
 
    From the fortune files:
 
    "As a method of sending a missile to the higher, and even to the
highest parts of the earth's atmospheric envelope, Professor Goddard's
rocket is a practicable and therefore promising device.  It is when
one considers the multiple-charge rocket as a traveler to the moon
that one begins to doubt ... for after the rocket quits our air and
really starts on its journey, its flight would be neither accelerated
nor maintained by the explosion of the charges it then might have
left.  Professor Goddard, with his "chair" in Clark College and
countenancing of the Smithsonian Institution, does not know the
relation of action to re-action, and of the need to have something
better than a vacuum against which to react ... Of course he only
seems to lack the knowledge ladled out daily in high schools."

                -- New York Times Editorial, 1920
 
--
Marc.Brett@london.waii.com
Western Geophysical

895.10Hermann Oberth's one hundredth birthday on June 25MTWAIN::KLAESKeep Looking UpMon Jun 20 1994 17:21155
Article: 2739
From: higgins@fnalv.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy,soc.culture.german
Subject: Herman Oberth turns 100!
Date: 17 Jun 94 17:02:35 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
 
It has come to my attention that 25 June 1994-- two Saturdays from
now-- is the centennial of the birth of the rocket pioneer Hermann
Oberth.  I haven't decided what, if anything, I'll do to celebrate,
but I was wondering if anybody else is planning a commemoration. 
 
Will the Hermann Oberth Museum in Feucht, Germany be doing anything special?
 
I'll append the biographical note I published in *Ad Astra* (the
National Space Society's magazine) when Oberth died in 1990. 
 
     O~~*           /_) ' / /   /_/ '  ,   ,  ' ,_  _           \|/
   - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / /   / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
 /       \                          (_) (_)                    / | \
 |       |     Bill Higgins   Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
 \       /     Bitnet:     HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET
   -   -       Internet:  HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
     ~         SPAN/Hepnet:      43009::HIGGINS 
========
 
Hermann Oberth, who in the 1920s drafted the blueprint for the era of
space travel, died December 29, 1989, in Nuremberg, West Germany, at
the age of 95.  Oberth's writings were influential in getting modern
rocketry and astronautics started, and he was also a witness to such
crucial moments in history as the test of the first V-2 missiles, the
development of American space exploration in response to the Sputnik
challenge, and the launch of the first manned lunar landing mission.
 
Like Konstantin Tsiolkovsky in Russia and Robert Goddard in the United
States, Oberth independently worked out the principles of rocketry and
space flight in detail, presenting them in his book *Die Rakete zu den
Planetenrauemen* (The Rocket into Interplanetary Space) in 1923. 
Unlike Tsiolkovsky and Goddard, Oberth found a wide audience quickly,
as his technical ideas were popularized by science writers.  Through
the books and lectures of Willy Ley, Max Valier, and others, Oberth's
message-- that manned flight into Earth orbit and to other planets was
now technically feasible-- caught the imagination of many in the
German-speaking countries.  
 
Other authors published technical books that built on Oberth's ideas:
Walter Hohmann calculated interplanetary trajectories, Hermann
Noordung designed a space station, Eugen Saenger discussed rocket
engine design.  Rocketry experiments were begun (usually on shoestring
budgets) by individuals and groups seeking to hasten the advent of
interplanetary travel. Oberth belonged to the best-known of these
groups, the Verein fuer Raumschiffahrt (VfR) in Berlin, and served as
its president for a time.  The excitement of the fledgling space
movement soon spread further, as astronautical societies formed in
America and elsewhere in Europe.  In the Soviet Union, experimenters
and publicists began to rediscover Tsiolkovsky's pioneering studies.
 
While Oberth was not the first, then, to give the dream of space
flight a firm technical grounding, his work began the chain of events
that led directly to long-range missiles, manned space flight, and the
exploration of the Moon and planets.
 
Hermann Oberth was born June 25, 1894, at Hermannstadt, in Rumania. 
"At the  age of eleven," he wrote, "I received from my mother as a
gift the famous books, *From the Earth to the Moon* and *Travel to the
Moon* by Jules Verne, which I read at least five or six times and,
finally, knew by heart.  Even though I had taken a lot of interest in
these stories I realized  already at the age of twelve that shooting a
missile out of a giant gun  with the travelers inside, as Verne imagined 
for space flight, would not work..."  Oberth began to speculate on methods 
which *would* work, and "I gradually realized that reaction propulsion 
actually offered the only means of achieving space travel and that giant 
rockets would be used as spaceships of the future..."
 
Oberth began studying for a career in medicine, served in the Army
Medical Service during World War I, and switched to physics after the
war.  His studies took him to Munich, Goettingen, and Heidelberg.  He
continued working on the problem of rocket flight, but his doctoral
thesis on this subject was rejected in 1922 by the University of
Heidelberg.  It was published the next year as *Die Rakete zu den
Planetenrauemen*.  The book derived the mathematical theory of
rocketry, applied it to the conceptual design of a sounding rocket,
and went on to consider manned rockets and space stations.
 
Though his ideas attracted many supporters in the 1920s and 1930s,
Oberth felt frustrated by the reluctance of the German technical
establishment to accept his ideas, and waged a campaign of debates and
correspondence to answer his critics.  "The time finally came," he
wrote years later, "when the German scientific world had to take a
stand on the question of space travel.  But, believe me, I was amazed
upon seeing the lack of general education, the disinterest in new
ideas, and the vanity and self-complacency of certain people!" In 1929
his second book, *Wege zur Raumschiffahrt* (Road to Space Travel),
answered many objections raised by critics and expanded on Oberth's
notions of manned space travel.
 
The prominent filmmaker Fritz Lang, whose science fiction epic
*Metropolis* had recently enjoyed great success, was interested enough
to make a space adventure, *Die Frau im Mond* (The Girl in the Moon),
for the Ufa movie studio.  Lang invited Oberth to become technical
advisor on the movie. Though it is not without technical flaws, thanks
to Oberth *Die Frau im Mond* portrayed spaceflight more accurately 
than any film before-- and many since!       
 
As a publicity stunt, Ufa also hired Oberth to construct a rocket
which would be launched at the movie's 1929 premiere. His great
achievements had been in theoretical developments; Oberth proved less
than handy at the practical and timely engineering of a high-altitude
rocket.  This project flopped, but it brought together people, such as
Rudolf Nebel and young Wernher von Braun, who played important roles
in the later development of German rocketry.  Some  of Oberth's
equipment, such as the earliest liquid-fuel engines fired in Europe,
was also salvaged for later experiments. 
 
After Oberth returned to Mediasch in Rumania to resume a teaching
career, the VfR conducted experiments with rockets for several years. 
Then Von Braun and other VfR members were hired by the German army to
develop military rockets in secret.  This effort culminated a decade
later in the V-2 missile.  
 
Though the V-2 and later rockets embodied many of the principles
Oberth had set forth in his books, the major work was done by others,
and he never had a leading role in the development of rockets after
1930.  Nevertheless, he continued to be active in the field off and on.  
 
From 1938 onward Oberth was involved in a variety of research into
military rockets, becoming a German citizen in 1941.  While at the
Peenemuende missile center between 1941 and 1943, he witnessed early
test flights of the V-2 rocket.  He also worked on solid-fuel
antiaircraft rockets.  
 
When World War II ended in 1945, he was interrogated by the Allies, 
then released.  He eventually settled in Feucht, West Germany, near
Nuremberg.  
 
In 1955 Oberth moved to Huntsville, Alabama, to work on rocketry for
the U.S. Army.  He became involved in advanced planning for space
projects, and during this time published designs for "Moon cars,"
space stations, space suits, and orbiting astronomical observatories. 
In 1959 he retired and returned to Feucht, where he made his residence
for the rest of his life.
 
At the age of 75, Oberth was a guest at the July 1969 launch of Apollo
11.  In later years a Hermann Oberth Museum devoted to spaceflight was
opened in Feucht.  He also was a member of the Board of Governors of
the National Space Society.  In 1985 he made his final trip to the
United States, where he visited NSS headquarters and appeared before
the National Commission on Space.
 
During his long life, Hermann Oberth witnessed such crucial moments in
history as the early Berlin experiments, the advent of the V-2, the
early American steps in space, and the launch of the first manned
lunar landing mission.  He will be best remembered in the world of
astronautics as the last survivor of its founding fathers.

895.11Tuesday on the Disney ChannelMTWAIN::KLAESHouston, Tranquility Base here...Mon Jul 11 1994 18:373
        The Disney Channel will air "A Moon Man from Massachusetts:
    The Robert Goddard Story" on Tuesday, July 12, at 9 p.m. EDT.