[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference noted::sf

Title:Arcana Caelestia
Notice:Directory listings are in topic 2
Moderator:NETRIX::thomas
Created:Thu Dec 08 1983
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1300
Total number of notes:18728

866.0. "Ursula Kroeber LeGuin" by FORTSC::KRANTZ (Complex things are complex) Wed Mar 28 1990 20:03

    This now is the official topic for Ursula K. Leguin, any new books by her,
    thoughts about her "ekumenical" universe, etc.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
866.1New Earthsea story to be published?FORTSC::KRANTZComplex things are complexWed Mar 28 1990 20:0510
    Someone in the MZB topic brought forth a rumor of a new UKL book set in
    the world of the Earthsea Trilogy (but not part of the Trilogy storyline).

    Also anything about any other forthcoming stories.

    Any further rumors or facts woud be much appreciated.  Wizard of Earthsea
    is my favorite book ever, and Disposessed is number two.

    -- mikeK
866.2I like the Ekumene, but ...ATSE::WAJENBERGColor CoagulatedWed Mar 28 1990 20:1516
    I, too, have heard the rumor of a fourth Earthsea book.  I hope it's
    true.
    
    I liked all the Hainish novels (as LeGuin calls the stories set in the
    Ekumene), except for "The Dispossessed."  I was also distracted by the
    sound of axes grinding in "The Word for World is Forest," but it was
    still enjoyable.  My favorite is "The Left Hand of Darkness."
    
    But I have this theoretical problem with the Hainish novels.  In them,
    all the hominids inhabiting the Ekumene, including us, are supposed to
    be Hainish-descended.  I find this a little hard to reconcile with the
    evidence that we evolved here on Earth with the rest of the livestock.
    Does LeGuin try to explain that away somewhere, or does she just ignore
    it?
    
    Earl Wajenberg
866.3I don't think she explained it. But it's not difficult, if necessary.FORTSC::KRANTZComplex things are complexWed Mar 28 1990 20:3935
>            <<< Note 866.2 by ATSE::WAJENBERG "Color Coagulated" >>>
>                        -< I like the Ekumene, but ... >-
>
>    except for "The Dispossessed."

    Why?

>    My favorite is "The Left Hand of Darkness."

    Yah, I like this, too.
    
>    all the hominids inhabiting the Ekumene, including us, are supposed to
>    be Hainish-descended.  I find this a little hard to reconcile with the
>    evidence that we evolved here on Earth with the rest of the livestock.

    I think we are all supposed to be descended from a common ancestral race,
    and the Hain are by far the oldest of these child races.  But I'm not
    sure; you could be right about them being ancestral.

    This doesn't bother me.  Like many people, I just *like* the idea of their
    being a benevolent parental race, with/without explanation.  But whose to
    say that if there is such a race, that they couldn't also seed other
    species with common ancestry.  Perhaps in order to leave the appearance
    of terrestrial evolution.  (I'm sure we could think of a reason why they
    might want to create this appearance, or think of another reason -- we
    could develope better with a very large variety of related species, and
    the conclusion of common evolution is obvious; since it is developed based
    on our terrestrial company, we have no basis for concluding extraterrestrial
    evolution.)

>    Does LeGuin try to explain that away somewhere, or does she just ignore it?

    I don't recall her ever providing an explanation.

    -- mikeK
866.4Other LeGuin discussionsWRKSYS::KLAESN = R*fgfpneflfifaLWed Mar 28 1990 21:083
    	Type SHOW KEYWORD/FULL LeGuin to find other Topics on her work
    in this Conference.
    
866.5RUBY::BOYAJIANSecretary of the StratosphereThu Mar 29 1990 06:098
    The fourth Earthsea book is not a rumor, it's already on sale in
    hardcover (in the US, at least). I just saw a copy today at the
    Lauriat's in Nashua. Damn! I forget the title, but it has a
    subtitle describing it as "the last Earthsea novel".
    
    --- jerry
    
    P.S. I corrected the spelling of LeGuin's name in the topic title.
866.6Tehanu, The Last Tale of EarthseaIOSG::SEATONIan Seaton, Bug BustersThu Mar 29 1990 07:2514
According to the USENET stuff flying around there is a new Earthsea book out,
it is:

	"Tehanu" (c) 1990
	Published by Atheneum
	ISBN 0-689-31595-3
	$15.95

When it's going to come to the UK is anyones guess...

	Share and enjoy...

		Ian Seaton.
866.7She does suggest an answerMINAR::BISHOPThu Mar 29 1990 13:2618
    Le Guin does give an explaination.
    
    While the current Hain are nice, there's clear evidence that in
    earlier times they were less so.  Remember the speculations by
    the Envoy in _Left_Hand_... that the mono-sexed natives were an
    experiment to test a theory?  Somewhere in the Hainish novels,
    Le Guin went on to suggest that Earth was the site of another
    experiment--planting Hainish humans on a planet which had its
    own native humanoid intelligent species.
    
    She's not the only SF writer to suggest this--the idea that the
    Neanderthals are native and Cro-Magnon are from the stars has
    been used several times.  Before the recent re-evaluation of the
    Neanderthal skeletons and the use of immunological studies which
    established the biological closeness of men and chimps, such
    speculations weren't so obviously far-fetched.
    
    				-John Bishop
866.8LeGuin as Essayist and ExperimentalistATSE::WAJENBERGColor CoagulatedThu Mar 29 1990 13:2721
    Re .4
    
    Why didn't I like "The Dispossessed"?  Nothing appealed.  I didn't find
    either imagined society either pleasing or interesting, and I had the
    same problem with the characters.  Hey, you can't win 'em all. 
    LeGuin's average success-rate is still high enough that I always keep
    an eye out for her stuff.
    
    I have two or three of her collections of essays and short stories.  She
    is as good an essayist as she is a fiction author.  (This is not always
    the case.  Tolkien is a marvelous novelist and a medicore, unclear
    essayist, I think.)  She also experiments with strange literary forms,
    such as the delightful "Extracts from the Journal of the
    Theriolinguistic Society" (or something like that), a set of three
    short "articles" from a magazine about the new science of animal
    language.  To give you an idea of the content, the lead article is "The
    Author of the Acacia Seeds: MS Found in an Ant-Hill."
    
    Re .5 & .6:  Thank you for the information on "Tehanu."
    
    Earl Wajenberg
866.9Pointers to other LeGuin topicsSTAR::CANTOREat any good books lately?Wed May 16 1990 02:5913
Re .0,.4

Contrary to the topic note, this is not THE official LeGuin note. 
There are other topics in this conference on LeGuin and her works.
Noters in this file are allowed and encouraged to pick up the
discussions already present in any of the following topics:

  88, 131, 345, 493, 855

as well as continuing this topic.

Dave C.
moderator
866.10Another book in Earthsea sagaBREW11::MASSARILife in the Diet LaneTue Jul 10 1990 14:1711
866.11ALIEN::MELVINTen Zero, Eleven Zero Zero by Zero TwoTue Jul 10 1990 14:2713
866.12Tehanu -- Swap for EddingsHKFINN::CORBOMon Sep 17 1990 17:2513

I just finished reading Le Guin's Tehanu (fourth book of Earthsea
Trilogy) and would like to swap it for an Eddings paperback
from the Mallorean (correct spelling?).  I have the first book.

I'm located at PK03 or just send me mail.

-Tracy Corbo

DTN:  223-6096
VAXmail:  HKFINN::CORBO

866.13"Buffalo Gals and Other Animal Presences"ATSE::WAJENBERGCelebrated ozone dweller.Thu Nov 15 1990 13:3222
    "Buffalo Gals" is a new anthology of LeGuin stories available in
    paperback.  All the stories concern animals.  The title story, "Buffalo
    Gals, Won't You Come Out Tonight," was written for this anthology, but
    most or all of the others were published first elsewhere.  However,
    they were published in some pretty obscure places, and it is nice to
    have them all together.  Certainly I never saw most of them before.
    
    In some of them, the animals are humanized into talking, in some not. 
    (In fact, some of them are about vegetables, not animals.)  But even
    the most anthropomorphic of them are clearly exploring the species
    boundary, so to speak.
    
    One of my favorites is "`The Author of the Acacia Seeds' and Other
    Extracts from the Journal_of_the_Association_of_Therolinguistics." 
    Therolinguistics is an imagined science of the future for translating
    animal languages.  The author of the acacia seeds is an ant.
    
    LeGuin gives introductions to the stories.  Like all her essay writing,
    these are interesting, but I felt slightly preached-at.  Still, I
    recommend the book.
    
    Earl Wajenberg
866.14ReviewsVERGA::KLAESQuo vadimus?Wed Nov 17 1993 19:44215
Article: 432
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews
Subject: REPOST: Belated Reviews PS#26: Ursula K. Le Guin
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: 17 Nov 93 05:15:42 GMT
 
		Belated Reviews PS#26: Ursula K. LeGuin
 
I'm going to stick my neck out again.  If you try to review a prolific,
respected, widely-read, and more-or-less contemporary author, you're
sticking your neck out.  (Not least because enough other people have read
the same books, and can perform a sanity check on your comments.)  For a
change of pace I'll let someone else lead off, and start by quoting what
my copy of "Rocannon's World" has to say about Ursula LeGuin: 
 
	We once wrote that while only a few women wrote
	science-fiction they made up in quality what they lacked
	in numbers.  Certainly among the ranks of the most highly
	esteemed artisans of fantasy fiction will be found the
	names of Andre Norton, Leigh Brackett, C.L. Moore,
	Margart St. Clair, and Marion Zimmer Bradley.  "Rocannon's
	World" introduces the first book by another of that
	select group, Ursula K. LeGuin.
 
	Mrs. LeGuin lives in Portland, Oregon, and has made 
	her first sales to the magazines.  That she has talent will
	be evident on reading, for the s-f reader will find in
	this vivid interplanetary fantasy elements reminiscent not
	only of the soaring imagery of the above-mentioned but
	hints of the fantasy of the Tolkien or Merrit type.  This
	may seem extravagant praise for a beginner, but we hope
	that the reader will sense this for himself and wait,
	hopefully, for her next novel. -- D.A.W. (1966)
 
There's been three decades worth of water under the bridge since "Rocannon's
World" was written.  And it's been almost that long since LeGuin was last 
the subject of such faint (and condescending) praise.  The eight years after
that introduction was written saw an outpouring of excellent novels -- some 
of which have stood the passage of time better than others.  Among the best
of these are: 
 
"A Wizard of Earthsea" (****).  This is a superb juvenile.  (For all that
I think highly of the book, I realize that some readers don't care for
juvenile fiction, however good.  You've been warned.)  The first book of
the 'Earthsea' trilogy, it introduces the Archipelago of Earthsea, and the
young Sparrowhawk -- the character who connects the books of the trilogy.  
 
It would not be unfair to call "A Wizard of Earthsea" a coming-of-age
novel.  We first meet Sparrowhawk as a child with incredible magical
potential.  He receives magical instruction -- the foundation of which is
that to know a thing's true Name is to control it -- and progresses
swiftly -- too swiftly:  One day he casts a spell which is, if not beyond 
his power, far beyond his wisdom, and summons a Nameless evil.  He
survives the experience, and continues to progress after that, but his
ability to deal with reavers and with dragons is mocked by his continuing
inability to Name and recapture the entity which he loosed -- and which
continues its attempts to hunt *him* down.
 
	There is a tale told in the East Reach of a boat that ran
	aground, days out from any shore, over the abyss of ocean.
	In Iffish they say it was Estarriol who sailed that boat, 
	but in Tok they say it was two fishermen blown by a storm
	far out on the Open Sea, and in Holp the tale is of a Holpish
	fisherman, and tells that he could not move his boat from
	the unseen sands it grounded on, and so wanders there yet...
 
Fantasy was still reeling from Tolkien in the late sixties, and the
explosion of authors who were imitating Tolkien or reacting against him
had begun.  Part of the attraction of "A Wizard of Earthsea" was how
little it owed to "Lord of the Rings".  Today, it's still a relief to go
back to a world of villages and islets, rather than cities and forts, and
of dragons who are cunning and eloquent (albeit voracious), and not just
Fafnir clones.  If you enjoy this book, you'll definitely want to read the
rest of the trilogy -- "The Tombs of Atuan" (***) and "The Farthest Shore"
(***+).  (Interestingly, the viewpoint shifts with each novel, so we see the
adult Sparrowhawk, and later the old Sparrowhawk, through different eyes.)
 
A fourth book, "Tehanu" (**), is more recent.  Opinion is sharply divided
as to whether it's a fitting addition to the trilogy or a mockery of it.
My own opinion falls somewhere between:  It's not a bad book, albeit not
special, either, but it fits poorly with the other three.  "Tehanu" could
have been written to better advantage without recasting familiar characters
and places in an unfavorable light.
 
"The Left Hand of Darkness" (***+) won the Hugo *and* the Nebula awards
for 1969, which leaves a reviewer who is less than enthusiastic about it
with a burden of explanation.  It's a good book, I'll grant, and worth
reading.  In it, we see the world of Gethen through the eyes of Genly Ai,
an envoy sent by the interstellar Ekumen to invite the nations of Gethen
to join it.  The most notable characteristic of Gethen, from the human's
standpoint, is that its humanoid inhabitants are hermaphroditic, rather
than male or female.  Almost until the end, Ai continues to perceive
almost everyone on Gethen as male, and is constantly being brought up
short when his preconceptions misfire.  (In constructing a plausible
society that lacks sexual dimorphism, LeGuin implicitly holds up a
thought-provoking mirror to our own society.  Even aside from the implicit
critique, the world-building is one of the best aspects of the novel.) 
 
The book deals with other apparent dichotomies as well.  One of the two
nations of Gethen is a monarchy and another is totalitarian, but their
reactions to the prospects represented by the envoy are remarkably
similar.  Perhaps the greatest illusory gulf is that between Humans and
Gethenians.  The book begins with Genly Ai looking upon Gethen from the
outside, as a traveller or anthropologist.  One gets the feeling that his
idea of diplomacy consists of talking to the natives in words of one
syllable.  By the book's end he is still thinking of Estraven, the
Gethenian with whom he establishes the strongest ties, as male -- but he 
has obviously stopped thinking of him as anything other than 'people'.
 
	"No, I don't mean love, when I say patriotism.  I mean
	fear.  The fear of the other.  And its expressions are
	political, not poetical: hate, rivalry, aggression.  It
	grows in us, that fear..."
 
"The Dispossessed" (***+) is LeGuin's other magnum opus.  If I had to
compare, I'd say that it's not as good as "The Left Hand of Darkness", but
that I enjoyed it more.  It's also placed in the universe of the Ekumen,
on the twin worlds of Anarres and Urras.  (The Ekumen plays a minor but
important role, mostly in the background of the novel.  Anarres and Urras
have nothing like the Ekumen's technology, but their mathematics is
superior, and promises to lead to a faster-than-light breakthrough.)
Annares is a habitable moon of Urras, much poorer, settled two centuries
earlier by anarchistic utopians.  Actually, the term 'anarchistic' is
imprecise, not least because these utopians bundled cooperation and lack
of property into the same concept.
 
Although the novel is split between the experiences of Shevek -- an
Anarrean mathematician -- on Anarres and on his journey to Urras, Urras
serves mainly as a foil to Anarres.  The most interesting aspect of the
book is Annarean society, and what it has become over two centuries.
Annares is by no means a failed utopia, but there is a tension between its
ideals of freedom and cooperation -- the latter being what ameliorates the
worst weaknesses of anarchism -- and there seems to be a human process which  
causes political power to accumulate at their points of intersection.
Annares is evolving what are effectively political institutions in spite
of itself, and is uncomfortable with the process.  Worse, cooperation
seems to shade easily into pressure to conform and thence into coercion --
and freedom shades into a lack of protection for the non-conformist and
for the unpopular.   Still, by the end of the book, and with Urras for 
comparison, we see that Anarres is trying to hold onto something valuable 
-- and possibly viable. 
 
	He wiped his eyes with the backs of his hands and held
	the knuckles out to show Sadik.  "See," he said, "they're
	wet.  And the nose dribbles.  Do you keep a handkerchief?"
 
	"Yes.  Don't you?"
 
	"I did, but it got lost in a washhouse."
 
	"You can share the handkerchief I use," Sadik said after a pause.
 
The Earthsea trilogy, "The Left Hand of Darkness", and "The Dispossessed"
represent the high points in Ursula K. LeGuin's writing.  Almost nothing
she's written is actively bad, so if you enjoy those and want to read her
other books -- novels or anthologies -- you can't go too wrong whichever
you try.  My own first encounters with her writing were her early Ekumen
novels, "Rocannon's World" (**+) and "Planet of Exile" (**+), both of
which I thoroughly enjoyed.  Looking back on them now, I'd say they lack
the depth and the skill of her later writing, but are eminently readable.
"City of Illusions" (**) was interesting more as a postscript to "Planet
of Exile" than for its own merits.  I never cared much for "The Word for
World is Forest" (*+) -- in which a bunch of American Villain Stereotypes
commit ecological, economic, cultural, and sexual rape on another world --
or for "The Lathe of Heaven" (**) -- in which a Man Who Can Work Miracles
comes under the control of someone who isn't wise enough to play God --
though I know many think highly of the latter.
 
There are also a few books it's probably worth mentioning without trying
to rate.  "Always Coming Home" is not a novel, but a world-building
exercise -- an anthropologist's look at a future (effectively low-tech) 
Pacific-coast society.  I found it admirable, but not interesting or
enjoyable.  "The Language of the Night" is a collection of essays on
fantasy, the best known of which is "From Elfland to Poughkeepsie", on
modes of speech in fantasy.  (I wish I'd thought to refer to it for
examples when I was raving about Eddison's "The Worm Ouroboros".)  I don't
share LeGuin's belief that fantasy speaks to something deeper within us
than other forms of fiction, but I *would* recommend this collection to
introspective readers of fantasy.  (It's a pain to find copies, but
they're around.)  "Very Far Away From Anywhere Else" is a novel of young
romance written to appeal to the bookish, the intelligent, and the
self-dramatizing.  I thoroughly enjoyed it -- and then threw it as hard as
I could against the wall, because (IM OH SO HO) it was so manipulative of 
the reader.
 
There are other books.  In particular, as I observed in passing, I've 
slighted her shorter fiction.  If you haven't read LeGuin's writing, I'm 
not promising that you'll enjoy it -- but I will promise that you'd be 
making a mistake not to try it.
 
%A  LeGuin, Ursula K.
%T  A Wizard of Earthsea
%O  There are three sequels in this trilogy
%T  The Left Hand of Darkness
%T  The Dispossessed
 
=============================================================================
 
The postscripts to Belated Reviews cover authors of earlier decades who
didn't fit into the original format -- whether because the author seemed
an inappropriate subject, or because I was unfamiliar with too much of the
author's work, or whatever -- or sometimes just isolated works of such
authors.  The emphasis will continue to be on guiding newer readers
towards books or authors worth trying out, rather than on discussing them
comprehensively or in depth.  I'll retain the rating scheme of ****
(recommended), *** (an old favorite that hasn't aged well), ** (a solid
lesser work), and * (nothing special). 
 
-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com
 
   Should 'anal retentive' have a hyphen? - unidentified passing t-shirt