Conference noted::sf

    Try THE FEMALE MAN. Published around a decade or so ago (in paperback).
    May have been re-issued. I can't remember whether "Tales of Alyx"
    incorporates the original Alyx novel, PICNIC ON PARADISE. If it
    doesn't, you'll probably enjoy that too.
    
    Fred

    Oh, btw, it's Joanna, not Joanne

    "Tales of Alyx" does include "Picnic on Paradise".
    
    Russ's novels were out of print for many years.  The Women's Press has
    been reissuing them but you may have to go to a woman's, literary, or
    large SF bookstore.  IMO, Russ is one of the best living novelists but
    her short stories (other than the Alyx ones) are unmemorable.
    
    The novels, in chronological order after "Picnic on Paradise", are:
    
    "And Chaos Died" - Excellent book about the impact of a decadent future
    civilization on a telepathic non-technological civilization and the
    impact the other way.  Russ takes a _very_ different view of how these
    culture clashes might work than, say, LeGuin does - more optimistic in
    some ways, more frightening in others.  Be warned that this is a tough
    book to figure out on a first reading.  Robert Silverberg has admitted
    to writing a blurb for the novel even though he hadn't the slightest
    idea what was going on in it!
    
    "The Female Man" - A proto-feminist tract.  Funny, educational; some
    people find it inspirational, some find it incredibly irritating.  It
    is much less in the mainstream of science fiction than her other
    novels, playing with science fiction conventions but being more of an
    speculative essay than a story.  (It's one of my favorites, BTW, but
    I'm not into hard SF.)
    
    "We Who Are About to..." - A short novel which reprises the "Picnic on
    Paradise" situation in a much darker, more introspective way.  A return
    to "science fiction" but most SF fans hate it.  It's grown on me
    through the years.
    
    "The Two of Them" - Another SF novel about culture clash.  Well done,
    but kind of depressing if you're not a lesbian seperatist since one of
    the points seems to be the hopelessness of any male-female
    relationship.
    
    "On Strike Against God" - A non-SF upbeat "get outa them closets"
    lesbian novel.  I thought it was kind of icky, but I guess it wasn't
    really meant for me...
    
    
    Russ has also written two short non-fiction books which I thoroughly
    enjoyed, "How to Suppress Women's Writing" and a collection of feminist
    essays (whose long name escapes me) which includes her great responses
    to the anti-porn crusade.
    
    Ray

    and chaos died was a very dificult novel and as i recall there was
    a gay protaganost which added alot of homophobic tension to the
    story the structure and the content created alot interesting
    uncomfortable tension. its a small novel but plan on spending alot
    of time with it.
    pete

Well, I finally read "The Female man" (thanks Chuck). Very interesting but a
hard read at first. Seen from the perspective of the 90's it was almost an
historical feminist novel. 

The sad part was how much of women's lives still deal with the same issues. I
however, hold a little more hope than I think Russ does. She seems to have a
very derogatory view of the kind of culture men would have without women. I 
prefer the male only world that LMB created in "Ethan of Athos". On the other 
hand, given what happens in prisons maybe she's right. liesl

> She seems to have a
> very derogatory view of the kind of culture men would have without women.
    
    It wasn't just a culture without women, though.  It was first and
    foremost a culture which was waging a reactionary war against women.
    Civil wars tend to bring out the worst in people...
    
    Similarly, Jael's culture-without-men-but-at-war-with-men was certainly
    much less pleasant than Janet's culture-without-men. 
    
    Ray

    Prisons start with a population of people who don't want to be
    there and are willing to break rules.  Like single-sex schools,
    they are temporarily single-sex parts of a mixed sex society.
    
    A better example of a society without men/woman would be monasteries
    and convents, in particular the isolated ones like Mt. Athos in Greece
    or St. Sophia in the Sinai.  In the old days boys would be dedicated
    (oblates?) when very young, so child-rearing was an issue.
    
    		-John Bishop

"the isolated ones like Mt. Athos in Greece". I'd had no idea that Ethan's world
was called Athos for a reason!! 

Re both, agreed. Wars do not make for pleasant societies and prisons are hardly
average population groups.

FWIW, Janet's world seemed one of the best but it was cetainly not my idea of
a place I'd like to live. It had nothing to do with the lack of males. I didn't
like the child rearing or the control of individuals that was part of it. 

It was also quite interesting that Janet was the only one to turn down Jael's
request for a base. I thought that was nice touch. liesl

>It was also quite interesting that Janet was the only one to turn down Jael's
>request for a base. I thought that was nice touch. liesl

    We don't know Joanna's decision... yet.  (: >,)
    
    Ray