Conference noted::sf

    yes! i read the first vol. a few months back and pick up the second
    this weekend...great adventure from "those rattail tabbies from
    hell" ;')
    pete

    Warning - 'The Childrens' Hour' steals heavily from a
    famous movie. But it is quite good. And nasty.

    >          <<< Note 815.2 by SA1794::CHARBONND "I'm the NRA" >>>
    
    >Warning - 'The Childrens' Hour' steals heavily from a
    >famous movie. But it is quite good. And nasty.
    
    Which one?  Set it behind hiddens, but I really cannot identify it.
    
    Tony


    Let's just say that the owner of the bar in 'The Children's Hour' is
    NOT named Rick.

    Dennis Murphy

    GRONK!  Ok, I get it.  Very different direction than what I was
    thinking.  But, now that you mention it, a very interesting rip-off. 
    Some technological related differences, but close enough for horse-
    shoes.
    
    Tony

    "The Children's Hour" is also the title of a play and a movie dealing
    with something completely different.
    
    Any relation?
    
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

    Just saw the third volume in the Man-Kzin Wars shareduniverseseries,
    I think it was at Lauriats in the Burlington Mall.  Now I'm awaiting
    my copy anxiously... (It's a Baen book and my SO gets all the new
    Baen SF via permanent mail-order every month).
    
    Willie

    i assume the Man-Kzin wars series is a spin-off of Larry Niven's
    Ringworld series and some short stories?
    
    could someone fill me in on the apparent 3 volumes of this series,
    since i really enjoyed the afore-mentioned stuff?
    
    also, re: .7, is Baen a SF publisher? are they new? good?
    
    ken

    Yup, though one might more clearly say it's more books in the series of
    his Known Space, except now he's thrown it open to others, in the
    shared-universe style.
    
    I really enjoyed the first two volumes, and expect the third to
    be good as well.  It's not till one of these things gets into 5
    to 10 books that they print anything that comes along....
    
    Baen is a publisher.  I dunno how new they are, though they have
    been around for (guess) at least 5 years that I know about.  We
    get all their new SF/Fantasy every month, and while I'm not wild
    about _everything_ we get in, most of it's quite good.
    
    Willie 

    Jim Baen started out as an editor for the magazine GALAXY, bringing
    it out of the slump it'd been through for about five years. In the
    mid-70's, he got the position as sf editor at Ace Books, and helped
    make that one of the premiere sf houses of the time. Eventually,
    he moved over to Pinnacle Books, where he co-created the Tor Books
    line. After a few years, he decided to strike out on his own, and
    created a "packaging" firm, Baen Books, which was contracted by
    Pocket Books to be their sf line.
    
    --- jerry

   
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    spoiler following
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
     i just finished vol2 and loved it, did any one notice that in the
    children's hour when the spys finally broke into the computer they
    got the $ prompt. 
    that was great!!
    pete

   I was afraid that was just me (and my "corporate ego" :-) that noticed that
when I read it this past weekend...

					-mjg (who's glad it didn't say
					      "C>"...)

    it was probably a Cyber 74 running Kronos  :-)
    
    						=maggie-who-thinks-
    						60-bit-words-are-still-okay

Nah, if it was a dollar sign *without* a trailing space, it was a Tops-20
account with wheel turned on.
				/AHM

    I polished off Volume IV of the Kzin Wars series last weekend. It was
    excellent, IMO. It has two stories, one novel length, the other quite
    short. Being really bad at remembering things, I'm blanking on the
    author of the longer piece, but I think Stirling and Bear collaborated
    on the shorter. I'm probably wrong. Anyway, it's a real good read, both
    stories replete with the sfysics and logic problems one expects from
    Niven. Both stories evoked the alien nature of Kzin well. The longer
    story introduced a novel new life-form: independent newly-born "digits"
    combine in groups of five to form land-roving adults, each of the five
    retaining their own brains and independently-operated eyes, making for
    lots of internal conversation and differential talents among the
    "fingers." Nice.
    
    I thought Niven's introduction was interesting. He discussed his
    response to an amateur who wanted to use Kzin in a Star Trek setting, and
    was asking Larry's permission. Larry refused, allegedly on esthetic
    grounds, mentioning that Larry has commissioned Kzin work and later
    rejected it because it failed to meet his standards. He also made a
    point of pointedly mentioning the term "lawsuit" and explicitly
    discouraged writers using computer networks (USENET?) to publish Kzin 
    writings.
    
    This could be interpreted, I think, as Niven's way of protecting his
    right to the Kzin series. He's undoubtedly collecting some serious
    bucks for making all the effort of writing a two-page intro (I'm sure
    there's actually more work entailed, but how much could there be?). And
    Larry _did_ say something along the lines "If you want any more Known Space
    stories, you'll have to write them yourself" -- this was published in
    the back of one of his Known Space books. I think that paragraph might
    have put Known Space in the public domain, sort of, and that Niven's
    comments in Kzin IV are an attempt to forestall challenges by bringing
    up the L-work (lawsuit).
    
    Speculative fiction, and not written as well as Larry's :) - Hoyt
                                             

    re:.15
    
    This was discussed ad nauseum on Usenet in rec.arts.sf-lovers.
    
    The specific situation that Larry was referring to and was trying
    to avoid mentioning in detail was apparently a series of soft-core
    (or possibly hard-core) pornographic stories that someone on the
    net was writing and posting to alt.sex or rec.arts.erotica or
    whatever. Larry's trying to keep from making the same mistake that
    Paramount made. In the early years of STAR TREK fandom, Paramount
    never tried to squelch all of the fan fiction that was being written
    and published, even the pornographic stuff. Maybe it was because
    the show was off the air and they considered Trek to be an all-but-
    dead property, I dunno. Anyway, by the time they *did* get concerned
    about it, they didn't have a legal leg to stand on. There wasn't
    any way they could stop the fan fiction because in the law's view,
    they implicitly gave permission by allowing it to go on for years.
    Larry *has* to go after even the little guys if he wants to protect
    his right to control his property later.
    
    Larry's previously stated comment, "If you want more Known Space
    stories, you'll have to write them yourself" does *not*, either
    explicitly or implicitly put anything in the Public Domain. There
    are no laws against writing stories using other people's characters
    and settings; the law is only concerned with the sale or distribution
    of those stories. I can write all the Known Space stories I want,
    but as soon as I try to sell it, or even post it to the net, I'm
    violating Larry's rights to his characters.
    
    --- jerry

    	Niven's Kzinti have already appeared in the STAR TREK universe,
    in the animated television episode "Slaver Weapon", based on his short 
    story, "Soft Weapon".  Niven wrote the screen version himself. 
                                                                  
	FYI - NBC had an animated version of STAR TREK on Saturday mornings
    in 1973-1974.  While a number of the episodes left something to be
    desired, "Slaver Weapon" was certainly one of the better ones.
    
    	Larry
    

    Star Trek role-playing game shows a map of the Federation (a big
    circular bite out of the galactic plane) flanked by the empires of
    Klingons, Romulans, and Kzinti, as well as lesser neighbors like
    Tholians.  I don't know if the rule set provides for playing Kzinti
    characters.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    This is interesting. If I ever write the story I've been percolating
    for years now (!), it will be extremely derivative of Niven's Known
    Space stuff. Transfer booths and stasis fields are key, for example.
    Can I use these expressions without violating Niven's rights? Or do I
    have to resort to "transmission boxes" and "no-time fields" (yuck)?
    
    How about the berserker series? Did Saberhagen invent this? Does he
    retain the right to "license" the idea of berserkers? I think Niven
    wrote a berserker story. Did they do "cross-licensing"? :)
    
    I wonder what Larry would do if I sent him a wonderful Beowulf Shaefer
    (sp?) story. In his intro the Kzin IV he specifically deplored the
    quality of the items he rejected.
    
    Thanks for the info, all - Hoyt                                    

    In addition to the four volumes in the series, you might want to
    read Poul Anderson's full-length novel, "Incoonstant Star" which
    takes place in the Man-Kzin Wars era.

    "Inconstant Star"???!!! And Niven wrote "Inconstant Moon"! 

    I just  read  M-KW  [II] and Niven's RingWorld-two novels, I think?
    
    Where has this guy been? Great SF.
    
    The kzinti started  in  RingWorld.  Suprised I can't find anything here 
    on the series.
    
    What's the story on  Niven?    He  seems  to write lots of SF in teams.  
    Does that make for better SF?  Or more $?
    
    

    Niven is a great writer.  But he tends to be very technical and in the
    fictional world, technical=boring to some readers.  By teaming him with
    other writers, they can use his worlds and scientific ideas and add
    some spice/zip to the story.
    
    As far as money is concerned, Niven doesn't care.  He isn't in this for
    the bucks.  He was a millionaire before he started writing (Ah, family
    money) and only writes for his own enjoyment.  Fortunately, he writes
    well!

    Niven doesn't seem to have written much recently.  I think his
    most recent was "Achille's Choice" by him and Steve Barnes, where
    people are chosen for public office by individual athletic
    contests.  An odd idea, and seemingly contrary to everything one
    knows about what makes a good leader, but that's what SF is for.

    Niven's glory period was the early seventies, when he wrote the first
    Ringworld novel, "Protector" (highly recommended if you like the
    hard stuff), and his classic shorts such as "Inconstant Moon". 
    He didn't hit those peaks again, but at least he hit them once.
    
    /jlr

    Yup, he seems to  be  pretty  good.    There's a couple of books that I 
    think he may have written  in  conjunction with other authors, but  I'm 
    not sure.  One was something like "Lathe  of  God";  the other "Joshua, 
    SOn of None".  It was so long ago,  I  can't  remember  anything  about 
    "Lathe of God", except that it was put on TV,  possibly  PBS  [??] MANY 
    years ago...  "Joshua, Son of None" was a good read,  about the cloning 
    of  JFK.  Forget exactly how it turned out, but I don't  think  it  was 
    happy.
    
    Then  again, maybe my memory is doing its usual, & Niven wasn't involved 
    with either...  Ah, the side effects of middle age :-)
    
    Anyhow, I  enjoyed  "RingWorld" once I got into it.  "Man-Kzin Wars" is 
    excellent,  particulalry  about  the  telepathic  human  that  projects 
    himself as a Kzin.    Neat  ending  to  that  one!  [But not written by 
    Niven.] Amazing how the SF authors are doing that now, writing in other 
    author's scenarios..
    
    I've been reading SF since about 1954.  I'm now the "older" generation, 
    'cause I remember how my parents &  others  used  to  view it as trash:  
    Asimov, Heinlein, Bradbury, VOnnegut..  Back then, I  had read every SF 
    novel in Needham Public Library.  I think their  collection then fit on 
    one or two very small shelves...  Amazing how the  genre  evolved.  I'm 
    no great SF trivia freak;  it's just my preferred way  to  escape!   My 
    wife reads trashy romantic novels; I read SF!  Good stuff cheap.
    

    "Lathe of Heaven" was by that hard sf icon, Ursula K. LeGuin.
    
    Ray

    Well, the  book  I  read  was Man_Kzin Wars IV.  Can't remember the two 
    authors, but I'd  recommend  it  highly.  Last story was neat, if a bit 
    short.  Loved the ending.
    

    I understand that Niven and Jerry Pournelle are working on the sequel
    to "The Mote in God's Eye" - should be interesting when they get it
    finished.

Re .28

>    I understand that Niven and Jerry Pournelle are working on the sequel
>    to "The Mote in God's Eye" - should be interesting when they get it
>    finished.

They have finished it.  I don't recall whether it's due out late this year
or sometime in 1993.

I also read about a year ago that when asked why he hadn't published
anything lately, Niven answered that he was blocked, and could not write.
The partnerships have allowed him to do some work.  The Man/Kzin set of
books are written by other people in Niven's universe.
BTW, the Kzin go WAY back before Ringworld.

    The sequel to Mote in Gods Eye has two titles.  In the US it will
    be issued as The Gripping Hand, while the British title will be
    The Mote Around Murchinson's Eye.
    
    US publication is scheduled for Feb 93, I believe.

MAN KZIN V  is now out....