Conference noted::sf

                The keyword  in  that  last  note  was DEFINATELY
                "SF".
                
                :')x1,000
                
                - Rob -
                

    There's a book out by Pamela Sargent called `The Shore of  Women".

    The women live in high-tech cities, and are the keepers of
    civilization, utilizing the men for breeding purposes. The men
    are out in the forests and live like ANIMALS, HA HA HAAAH!

    Actually, it was a pretty good book.

    Mike J

    From the looks of the covers, Sharon Greene writes books where the
    females are the heros. I haven't read any of them, so I don't know
    whether they're any good or not.

    C. J. Cherryh has one out called `Palladin' (?), and the lady is a
    hero swordswoman with a mission, she also wrote some books about a
    heroine named Morgan. I believe most of those titles feature the
    word GATE in them.

    Mike J

    
    I actually wrote a book about women who control 22nd century men
     and wish to improve the galaxy ,but everybody took it as a joke,
    so it was never published. Reality could be so cruel...
    
                 
    E.Weiss

    
    Well, I know of some, but they are mostly fantasy:
    
    	Almost everything by C. J. Cherryh has female protagonists:  the 
    Chanur series, _Cyteen_ and some others.
    
        Octavia Butler has some good female characters.  Marion Zimmer
    Bradley has written some pretty good stuff in the _Mists of Avalon_
    and the Darkover series of novels.  
    
     	Joan D. Vinge, _The Snow Queen_ has a female heroine.
    
    	Jo Clayton has some good female heroes:  e.g. the Skeen series:
    _Skeen's Leap_, _Skeen's Return_ & _Skeen's Search_.  Most of her novels
    seem to have female heroines, and they are usually warrior types.
    
        Stephen R. Donalson's _The Mirror of Her Dreams_ and _A Man Rides
    Through_ have a female protagonist.  She's not exactly a warrior 
    though.
    
    jc.

      Lois Macmasters Bujold has great female protagonists. She has
      great male protagonists too.

      There was also "Venus of Dreams" by that famous author
      I_don't_remember. 

      Alas, most worlds where women dominate are fantasy and likely to
      remain so. liesl

re .6:

_Venus_of_Dreams_ was by Pamela Sargeant also.

                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /

    Hellspark, by Janet Kagan, has a female protagonist.  She gets in a
    fight or two, but she's not really a warrior. 
    
    By the way, I got this book at a used book sale, and I've never seen
    anything else by this author.  Has anyone else heard of her?
    
    -Sandy

    Many of Anne McCaffrey's works feature female protagonists.

    Almost anything by Joanna Russ is from a female-superior position. 

    Try "Juniper Time" and "Welcome, Chaos" by kate Wilhelm

    Thanks to you all from .1 to .11.  More titles please;  and don't
    you say a word Rob *8:>) ,(ref .1)!
                                      
    Love it
    /\/\arilyn
    (down
     under)
    
    

    >>  Almost anything by Joanna Russ is from a female-superior position.
    
    Did you really mean that?

    RE.13
    
    Of course I did. (tongue firmly in cheek)

    Could we please keep our PERSONAL life preferences out of this?!!!
    
    ;^)
    
    Sherry

    Plus the five "Sword & Sorceress" collections that MZB has so far
    edited (pray God there are many more).
    
    (Having read two of Sharon Green's lot I think I detected a pattern:
    they're written for people attracted by B&D:  lotta fairly repetitive
    dominance-or-submission sex)
    
    						=maggie
    
    

    	I read a couple of Sharon Green's work's also.  
    
    	Ditto.  The first one was (sort) interesting in that it was a turnaround
    of the Hulking barbarian type of story.  The second was sheer repetition.
                                                    
    tlh
    

    Try a book named "JEM", author forgotten.
    I haven't seen it in bookshops for a while but you could try the
    Galaxy bookshop in Sydney.              
    The herion is a military commander who sets up a base on a newly
    discovered planet.  A pretty good read.
    
    Jeff
    {:^{)
    

    re:.18
    
    JEM is by Fred Pohl.
    
    --- jerry

    
    I don't know if you want to make a distinction between women in roles
    or superiority vs. women in dominant roles relative to the story.  But
    in the case of the latter, some of my favorite stories are by Anne
    McCaffery (Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern, Dragonrider series, Dragondrum
    series) and MZ Bradley (any novels about the Renunciates).  Their
    heroines seem more true-to-life than most in stories by male authors.
    
    ... Bob
    

    Although she is not a superior being or warrior, but does space travel
    of sorts, an excellent book with a leading lady is CONTACT by Carl
    Sagan. I like Sagan's style and would like to read COSMOS since
    I really enjoyed the TV series of the same.
    
    Jeff.
    {:^{0
    

It's definitely easier to come up with strong heroines in fantasy rather
than science fiction.  _God Stalk_ and _Dark of the Moon_ by P. C. Hodgell
are two of the best recent fantasies that i've read (featuring the same
heroine).
							paul

    John Varley's "Titan"/"Wizard"/"Demon" trilogy is replete with
    strong heroines - not always admirable, but definitely strong!
    
    -b

    
    RE .1:
    
    There was a time when women really dominated men (yes, on our Earth!).
    
    I think it was in prehistorical times, but it survived longest in the
    Celtic civilization. That is why, I think, Celtic culture wasn't
    permeated by machism.
    
    Yes, I know, I'm totally off the point there.
    
    All I know about female-centered books is the Jean M. Auel books.
    I really hated them coz they were just too female-centered: the
    heroin was real cute, real witty, survived on her own at a young
    age, tamed for the first time in human history, a lion and a horse
    (wow!). Furthermore, most of the men were just brainless brutes, and
    played almost no part in the story.
    
    							Tim.
    

    	See SF Topic 784 for a discussion on how women SF authors portray
    men in their stories.
    
    	Larry
    

    I just finished Haldeman's new novel "Buying Time".  The title refers
    to a foundation which controls an immortality process.  In order for a
    person to extend his or her life, he/she must turn over all of their
    assets to the foundation in payment for treatment.  Minimum payment is
    on the order of 2 million pounds.  The catch is that this must be done
    every 10 years.  
    
    I mention it in this topic since the story is told from the point of
    view of a woman who is very near her time for treatment but has opted
    not to, and a man who is somewhat of a thrill seeker who pushes his
    life to the limits and then renews.  The writing style is interesting
    as the story is told by alternating the point of view from the woman to
    the man.  A third person omniscient narrator is also thrown in
    occasionally as well as excerpts from the media. The style is similar
    to "Stand on Zanzibar". 
    
    It is an action/intrigue story as the two protagonists get swept up in
    a plot by a small group of immortals who want to rule the world. It's
    not as hokey as it sounds.  It also raises some interesting points on
    immortality and it's effects on society and religion.  It was a
    fast read since I had trouble putting it down to find out what was
    going to happen next. 

I've read most of the titles listed above and agree.  Here are a few more
authors that I have enjoyed:

Melissa Scott:		Five-Twelfths of Heaven
			Silence In Solitude
			The Empress of Earth

	This trilogy is a fine mix of SciFi/Fantasy/Future-world with the
	protagonist being a developing female/mage.  She also has two husbands.


Mercedes Lackey:	Arrows of the Queen
			Arrow's Flight
			Arrow's Fall

			Vows & Honor:  Oathbound
				       Oathbreakers

	Both of these series are very good reading.  I had trouble putting
	the books down.  The trilogy deals again with a developing female/mage
	but in more of a medieval setting.  The Vows & Honor series has two
	female protagonist, one is a warrior, the other a mage.  This is
	loosely related to the Arrow trilogy.


F.M. Busby:		Young Rissa
			Rissa and Tregare
			The Long View
			Star Rebel
			Rebel's Quest
			The Alien Debt
			Rebel's Seed
			Zelde M'Tana

	All of these books are very exciting, future-world SciFi adventures.
	The basic premise is one woman's flight/fight/growing-up with a 
	heavy-handed, earth based empire.  Lots of action, sex, and oddly
	food.  Seems the characters are always eating/drinking while not off
	adventuring.


Jack Chalker:		The Soul Rider Series:
				Spirts of Flux and Anchor
				Empires of Flux and Anchor
				Masters of Flux and Anchor
				The Birth of Flux and Anchor
				Children of Flux and Anchor

	These five books are interesting, with strong female characters.  Jack
	puts lots of twists and indirections in these stories.  Well worth
	reading, but you'll have to figure out the story line yourself.


Jo Clayton:		Diadem From the Stars
			Lamarchos
			Irsud
			Maeve
			Star Hunters
			The Nowhere Hunt
			Ghost Hunt
			The Snares of Ibex
			Questers End Game

	A couple of the previous replies mentioned Jo Clayton.  Here are is
	another series with a powerfull female protagonist.  This series is
	based in SciFi with lots of telepathic powers being developed in the
	main character, and her adventures with her past/future.

	Two other good series by Jo that deals more with magic/fantasy are:

			Moongather         Good .vs. Evil series
			Moonscatter
			Changers Moon

			Drinder of Souls	Common man's interactions with
			Blue Magic		the gods.
			A Gathering of Stones

This should keep you busy for a while, though I have plenty more suggestions
that I'll try to respond to later.

Good reading!

    I just started reading McIntyre's "Starfarers".  I'm only as far as the
    first few chapters, but the story is told from the point of view of a
    couple of women scientists.  One is a marinebiologist, the other is the
    head of an alien contact team and one of the key people aboard the
    Starfarer.  The Starfarer is a self sustained, deep space ship that is
    being sent out for exploration purposes.  The alien contact team has
    been set up more as a contingency plan, as the Earth has had no contact
    with aliens up to this point.  I'll put some more thoughts on the book
    when I finish it.

      I'm nearly done with "Golden Witchbreed" by Mary Gentel (not quite
      sure on the name) and it's been great so far. Earth envoy to a
      post-holocoust society Lynn De Lisle Christie is not a warrior but
      sure has to learn how to fight to protect herself. The story is
      somewhat reminiscent of "Left Hand of Darkness". liesl

      Possible spoiler...

      The sex of a person here is not known until puberty so there are
      almost no job related sex roles. Except for birth both sexes do
      everything. A communal lifestyle makes for the children belonging
      to the family group (which is many people) instead of the mother
      and father so women are free to work as they please.

    
    	"Ancient Light" is the sequel to Golden Witchbreed and is well
    	worth reading. It is based several years on from the original
    	novel but includes all the main characters.
    
    							Andy

    I read a book back in the early 70's called "Seven to Twelve".  The
    title referred to the ration of men to women in the world of the 
    future.  For some reason women gradually outnumbered men enough to
    "take over".  There was an almost complete reveral of social roles.
    Women displayed agressive behavior toward lone men etc.  I think it
    was written by Leonard Wibberly who wrote "The Mouse That Roared"
    and others.  This other book was no comedy.  It was very serious.
    I checked it out of a college library as a hardbound.  I don't know
    if it ever made it out as a paperback.

    Another serious book about male-female relations was "The Disappearance"
    by Philip Wylie.  A couple are having a conversation and in an instant
    both sexes disappear from the world of the other and they have to live
    without each other.  The men keep things together on a day to day basis
    but get the itch to start a war.  The women live peacefully but have
    trouble putting out fires.  At the time it was written there were 
    virtually no female firemen.  This did come out in paperback.

    I can't remember who wrote it but "The Pink and Blue War" takes place
    on a world where women dominate.  Ships from competing female and
    male societies come to visit and try to get the world to commit to
    one or the other.  The government tries to maintain it's independence
    amidst pressures from the men and women in its society.

    Mike

>    I read a book back in the early 70's called "Seven to Twelve".  The
>    title referred to the ration of men to women in the world of the 
>    future.  For some reason women gradually outnumbered men enough to
>    "take over".  There was an almost complete reveral of social roles.
>    Women displayed agressive behavior toward lone men etc. 

     I'm sure I've read this book - I thought it was called 
     'Five to Twelve' and was written by the english author
     Edmund Cooper. He also wrote another story on similar
     lines - 'Who needs Men?' which takes the story
     further - Women are hunting and killing Men.

     Regards.
    
     Reggie.
     -------

    Well, I finished "Starfarers" (see also 805.28).  This book must have
    been written to set up a series.  The first 80% of the book was set up
    work with the last 20% carrying the action.  It reminded me of the
    criticisms of the first Star Trek movie.  The ending, while not
    exactly a cliffhanger, does make for a perfect lead-in to a sequel. 
    
    The women characters dominate this book (thus the reason I enter this
    in this particular topic).  The male characters are weak both from a
    character standpoint and a characterization standpoint.  It's not that
    I can't identify with them, it's just that there isn't much there to
    identify with.
    
    From the tone of the story, I get the impression that the author is
    very anti-military/pro-science.  I don't know if it's intentional or
    not, but she also seemed anti-U.S.  She almost beats the reader over
    the head with her "fight for the downtrodden" message.  The story is
    set in the not-too-distant future, so perhaps it's not so hard to
    believe that humanity still hasn't learned from it's mistakes.  I like
    the writings of pessimists like Ellison, but this seemed to be a bit
    overbearing.  Perhaps it just wasn't the type of attitude I was
    expecting in a "humanity starts to explore the universe" type novel.
    
    She raises some interesting issues in extrapolating what could happen
    when humans can successfully adapt themselves for particular
    environments and vocations through genetic engineering.  She could
    probably write another novel solely based on the development of a
    genetically engineered race who lives in the oceans, coexisting with
    orcas (killer whales) - perhaps she will.  
    
    I kind of wonder about her means for obtaining FTL travel, however. 
    There is some handwaving about a "cosmic string" which was left over
    from the making of the universe which is an apparently limitless energy
    source.  Once a ship taps into the "string", it can acheive FTL speed.

re:  805.32 

>     I'm sure I've read this book - I thought it was called 
>     'Five to Twelve' and was written by the english author
>     Edmund Cooper. 

    I think you're right about the title and probably the author too.
    My memory is very fuzzy.  I never bought the book.  I checked it
    out of a library.  The males were outnumbered by more than two to one.

    I also made a mistake about "The Pink and Blue War".  The actual title
    is "A World Between".  It was written by Norman Spinrad.  The phrase
    'pink and blue war' described the rival between the two political groups.

    Mike

    I know this is late, but may come as a xmas present.  In catching
    up on this file I read through a few notes including this one. 
    No mention was made of a wonderful feminist novel called "Daughters
    of a Coral Dawn"---can't think of the authors name though.
    The book details a group of women in the not too distant future
    who leave earth tho form a new world.
    
    I read it many years ago so the details elude me.
    
    But A VERY GOOD read.
    
    Debbi

    And, if nobody has mentioned her yet (I did a quick check, but the link
    is slow):  Elizabeth Moon, ex-1LT USMC.  Her trilogy about Paksennarion
    Dorthansdotter (Sheepfarmer's Daughter, Divided Allegiance, and Oath of
    Gold) was, in my opinion, very fine reading.  She does a
    couple deus-ex-machina saves, but they're not sick-ups.  I hope for
    more from her, perhaps about Paks again.

    						=maggie

	For those interested, Pamela  Sargent has a new book out called
Venus of Shadows (I think). It's over 600 pages long. I bought it on the basis
of her `Shore of Women', which I thought was pretty good. I started it last
night, but only got into it a few pages before I conked out (This was because I
was dead tired, not bored... I'll probably have to start it again, because I
don't even remember what I read).

Mike JN

re .37:

Yes, its a sequel to "Venus of Dreams". Its been a while since I read VOD, but
I remember it as being very good. Haven't gotten VOS yet.

Sm

    
    This is VERY late, but what the heck!
    
    Silverglass series by J.F. Rivkin
    Warlock Trilogy by Glenn Cook
    Daughter of the Bright Moon by Lynn Abbey
    First Flight by Chris Claremont
    Hel Trilogy by Asa Drake
    
    
    If I actually look at my collection I'll write in more, but these
    come to mind.
    
                                  L.J.
    
    p.s.  Black Company Books also by Glen Cook
    

    Sargent is supposed to be coming out with another book to complete a
    trilogy started with Venus of Dreams and Venus of Shadows.  Sargent was
    also the editor of a couple of anthologies of SF written by women
    during a so-called SF feminist movement.

    
    Anne McCaffrey and Elizabeth Moon are collaborating on a new series
    called something like the "Planet Pirates"...
    
    The first volume is called "Sassinak", the second "The Death of Sleep"
    and I can't remember the third.  All are pro-female, and seem to be
    feminist parodies of the old E.E. Doc Smith style pulps of the '30s.
    
    David

    
    "...feminist parodies of the old E.E. Doc Smith..."
    
    The more I think about this, the funnier it gets...
    
    _Thelma and Louise of Valleron_
    
    _First Lensperson_
    
    ...