| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 641.1 | RE 641.0 | MTWAIN::KLAES | Know Future | Tue Jun 28 1988 17:03 | 11 |
| There is more than just one SF Topic on Clarke's 2001 Trilogy:
Topic 23 deals with 2010, and Topic 544 deals with 2061, plus the
various discussions of the films and books in other Topics, such
as ones relating to the best SF books and films, if this is any
help to you.
You can find 2001 within various Topics by using the command
SEARCH 2001, as mentioned in Notes 1.50-.53.
Larry
|
| 641.2 | 2001 makes the National Film Registry | MTWAIN::KLAES | All the Universe, or nothing! | Sun Sep 29 1991 17:23 | 62 |
| Article 1651
From: clarinews@clarinet.com
Newsgroups: clari.news.movies
Subject: 'Kong,' 'Gigi,' 23 other films join Registry
Date: 26 Sep 91 15:21:58 GMT
WASHINGTON (UPI) -- Movies about a cop, a hairy ape, and
monster with bolts on its neck are among 25 added this year to the
National Film Registry, a listing of the 75 most culturally
significant movies made in the United States.
The Library of Congress Wednesday released the third and final
annual list of films designated as ``culturally, historically or
aesthetically significant'' under a law passed by Congress in 1988.
The latest list includes one film from the 1970s,
``Chinatown,'' starring Jack Nicholson, and four films from the 1960s,
including Academy-award winning ``Lawrence of Arabia,'' Frederick
Wiseman's 1968 documentary ``High School,'' ``2001: A Space Odyssey''
and a 1968 independent film ``David Holzman's Diary.''
The only other Academy-Award winner on the list is Vincent
Minelli's ``Gigi,'' released in 1958.
Also on the list are the horror and science fiction films
``Frankenstein'' (1931), ``King Kong'' (1933); thrillers ``Out of the
Past'' (1947) and Alfred Hitchcock's ``Shadow of a Doubt'' (1943); and
``My Darling Clementine,'' a 1946 western directed by John Ford.
Silent films are represented by ``Gertie the Dinosaur''
(1914), ``Greed'' (1924), ``Poor Little Rich Girl'' (1917), Buster
Keaton's ``Sherlock Jr.'' (1924), and Charles Chaplin's ``City
Lights'' (1931).
Also on the list: ``I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang''
(1932), Orson Welles's incomplete ``The Magnificent Ambersons''
(1942), ``A Place in the Sun'' (1951), ``The Prisoner of Zenda''
(1937), ``Trouble in Paradise'' (1932), ``The Battle of San Pietro
(1945), ''The Blood of Jesus (1941), ``The Italian (1915), ''Tevya``
(1939).
``Each of the films we have selected also represents other
films of its kind that deserve recognition and, most importantly,
preservation,'' said James Billington, the librarian of Congress.
More than 1,059 films were nominated and considered by the
National Film Preservation Board, a 14-member panel with
representatives of various film industry and academic groups.
Billington stressed the list should not be viewed as the best
films of all time. Instead, he said the film registry serves as a method
to recognize and preserve the contributions made by the film industry.
For each film on the list, the Library of Congress will try to
obtain archive quality versions to be stored by the Motion Picture,
Broadcasting and Recorded Sound Division, the largest archive of its
type in the world.
The law that created the registry expires Friday but
Billington said he anticipated Congress will renew the legislation in
some form to secure public support and funding for film preservation.
|
| 641.3 | Happy Birthday, HAL 9000 | MTWAIN::KLAES | All the Universe, or nothing! | Sat Jan 11 1992 16:08 | 67 |
| Article: 1857
From: clarinews@clarinet.com
Newsgroups: clari.news.movies,clari.tw.computers
Subject: Birth date for HAL -- computer from movie ``2001''
Date: 10 Jan 92 18:48:23 GMT
URBANA, Ill. (UPI) -- Sunday marks the birthday of HAL, the
infamous computer in the movie ``2001: A Space Odyssey,'' in Urbana
and a professor says technology is lagging behind Arthur C. Clarke's
vision of a thinking machine.
In Clarke's book, HAL 9000 was a highly intelligent mass
killer aboard the Jupiter-bound spaceship Discovery and Stanley
Kubrick made a landmark movie about it in 1968.
``I became operational at the H.A.L. Plant in Urbana, Ill., on
the 12th of January, 1992,'' Hal said in the movie as astronaut David
Bowman rendered him inoperable. ``My instructor was Mr. Langley and he
taught me to sing.''
HAL was inspired by a University of Illinois project known as
Illiac IV -- a massive parallel computer employing 64 processors. The
computer, which was retired in the early 1970s, was used by NASA at
its Ames research center outside San Francisco.
HAL was supposed to be a problem-solving machine that could
make decisions. Professor Dan Reed of the University of Illinois'
computer science department said it will take a ``qualitative
breakthrough'' before a HAL-like machine is developed.
``There are some ways in which the technology in the movie was
not a prediction of reality and there are some ways reality has
outstripped the movie,'' Reed said.
``Where reality outstripped the movie is in the kind of human-
computer interfaces portrayed in the movie. Look at consumer
electronics and PCs. Things are very different. Service companies have
touch-sensitive tablets they can write on. We have handwriting
recognition systems, at least a subset of handwriting. There's about
to be an explosion in pen-based computing.''
Reed said the movie accurately predicted the development of chess-
playing programs ``equal to anyone short of world-class grand masters.''
``(But) the notion of a computer system that's truly
intelligent is the Holy Grail of artificial intelligence,'' he said.
Reed said thinking computers are a long way off. There is some
debate among experts over whether human intelligence must be fully
understood before scientists can find a way to mimic thought.
``Planes don't have to flap their wings to fly,'' he said.
Reed said he feels about HAL the same way he feels ``every
time I see a 'Star Trek' movie. I wish I lived in that future. Reality
always proceeds at a slower pace. That kind of exploration is very
difficult to make possible.''
Clarke, who is ailing and lives in Sri Lanka, has said
HAL-like computers are inevitable because man is just ``an
intermediate stage in the development of real intelligence.''
HAL originally was supposed to be called ATHENA and have a
female voice but Kubrick reportedly changed his mind and opted for HAL.
[There was a female-voice computer named SAL in the 1984 sequel film,
2010: THE YEAR WE MAKE CONTACT. - LK]
|
| 641.4 | Shall I sing Daisy for you? | LACV01::BUCHANAN | Greetings from the Suncrime State | Mon Jan 13 1992 14:21 | 3 |
| I have the same birthday as HAL 9000?
|
| 641.5 | good verbal skills... | LENO::GRIER | mjg's holistic computing agency | Mon Jan 13 1992 20:00 | 5 |
| Re: .4:
You write quite well for a 1 day old! ;-)
-mjg
|
| 641.6 | 8*> | LACV01::BUCHANAN | Is VAX9000 Hal's cousin? | Tue Jan 14 1992 11:47 | 1 |
| We're a gifted bunch here at the plant......
|
| 641.7 | What Heywood Floyd was reading on the Aries | VERGA::KLAES | Quo vadimus? | Tue Sep 21 1993 19:08 | 94 |
| Article: 15185
From: elf@nasa.ee.ryerson.ca (Luis Fernandes)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Toilet Question
Date: 20 Sep 1993 20:01:34 GMT
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnic University
And now, for something completely different...(actually, from _2001: A
Space Odyssey_)
ZERO GRAVITY TOILET
PASSENGERS ARE ADVISED TO READ INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE USE
1 The toilet is of the standard zero-gravity type. Depending on
requirements, System A and/or System B can be used, details of
which are clearly marked in the toilet compartment. When
operating System A, depress lever and a plastic dalkron
eliminator will be dispensed through the slot immediately
underneath. When you have fastened the adhesive lip, attach
connection marked by the large "X" outlet hose. Twist the silver
coloured ring one inch below the connection point until you feel
it lock.
2 The toilet is now ready for use. The Sonovac cleanser is
activated by the small switch on the lip. When securing, twist
the ring back to its initial-condition, so that the two orange
line meet. Disconnect. Place the dalkron eliminator in the vacuum
receptacle to the rear. Activate by pressing the blue button.
3 The controls for System B are located on te opposite wall. The
red release switch places the uroliminator into position; it can
be adjusted manually up or down by pressing the blue manual
release button. The opening is self adjusting. To secure after
use, press the green button which simultaneously activates the
evaporator and returns the uroliminator to its storage position.
4 You may leave the lavatory if the green exit light is on over the
door. If the red light is illuminated, one of the lavatory
facilities is not properly secured. Press the "Stewardess" call
button on the right of the door. She will secure all facilities
from her controll panel outside. When gren exit light goes on you
may open the door and leave. Please close the door behind you.
5 To use the Sonoshower, first undress and place all your clothes
in the clothes rack. Put on the velcro slippers located in the
cabinet immediately below. Enter the shower. On the control panel
to your upper right upon entering you will see a "Shower seal"
button. Press to activate. A green light will then be illuminated
immediately below. On the intensity knob select the desired setting.
Now depress the Sonovac activation lever. Bathe normally.
6 The Sonovac will automatically go off after three minutes unless
you activate the "Manual off" over-ride switch by flipping it up.
When you are ready to leave, press the blue "Shower seal" release
button. The door will open and you may leave. Please remove the
velcro slippers and place them in their container.
7 If the red light above this panel is on, the toilet is in use.
When the green light is illuminated you may enter. However, you
must carefully follow all instructions when using the facilities
duting coasting (Zero G) flight. Inside there are three
facilities: (1) the Sonowasher, (2) the Sonoshower, (3) the
toilet. All three are designed to be used under weightless
conditions. Please observe the sequence of operations for each
individual facility.
8 Two modes for Sonowashing your face and hands are available, the
"moist-towel" mode and the "Sonovac" ultrasonic cleaner mode. You
may select either mode by moving the appropriate lever to the
"Activate" position.
If you choose the "moist-towel" mode, depress the indicated
yellow button and withdraw item. When you have finished, discard
the towel in the vacuum dispenser, holding the indicated lever in
the "active" position until the green light goes on...showing
that the rollers have passed the towel completely into the
dispenser. If you desire an additional towel, press the yellow
button and repeat the cycle.
9 If you prefer the "Sonovac" ultrasonic cleaning mode, press the
indicated blue button. When the twin panels open, pull forward by
rings A & B. For cleaning the hands, use in this position. Set
the timer to positions 10, 20, 30 or 40...indicative of the
number of seconds required. The knob to the left, just below the
blue light, has three settings, low, medium or high. For normal
use, the medium setting is suggested.
10 After these settings have been made, you can activate the device
by switching to the "ON" position the clearly marked red switch.
If during the washing operation, you wish to change the settings,
place the "manual off" over-ride switch in the "OFF" position.
you may now make the change and repeat the cycle.
|
| 641.8 | Maybe we will have a space station in 2001 | VERGA::KLAES | Quo vadimus? | Fri Nov 12 1993 01:17 | 100 |
| From: US1RMC::"JONATHAN.FINK@ASU.Edu" "Jon Fink" 11-NOV-1993 17:39:07.71
To: distribution:;@us1rmc.bb.dec.com (see end of body)
CC:
Subj: fyi#149_distr
"Ralpha" Space Station Plan Takes Flight
FYI No. 149, November 11, 1993
The anxiously-awaited plans for a joint U.S.-Russian space station
were revealed by the Clinton Administration last week. Informally
called "Ralpha," the joint station would link the U.S.-led space
station "Alpha" with an upgraded Russian station. The Clinton
proposal lays out a three-phase strategy for U.S.-Russian cooperation
in space, culminating in a "world" space station effort involving the
U.S., Russia, Japan, Canada, and Europe. The plan is described in an
addendum to the "Program Implementation Plan" for Alpha.
The international space station would enable a permanent human
presence in space by October 2001, two years earlier than the U.S.'s
plan for Alpha alone. According to NASA, the joint facility would
provide additional advantages over Alpha: 40 kilowatts more power, 25
percent more enclosed volume, a total of six crew rather than four, a
better microgravity environment, and better Earth Observation from the
51.6 degree orbit. NASA Administrator Daniel Goldin estimated that it
would save the United States $3 to $4 billion, mainly due to the
shortened construction schedule.
The three-phase plan would begin with enhanced cooperation between the
U.S. and Russia on shuttle flights and Russia's MIR space station.
This level of cooperation was agreed to last year, with the U.S.
promising to pay Russia $100 million a year for four years for
hardware and services. Phase I will include astronaut and cosmonaut
exchanges, shuttle missions to MIR, and enhanced U.S. and Russian
research on MIR.
Phase II will be an advanced orbital research facility with an early
human-tended capability (by 1997.) Intended to become operational by
the end of MIR-1's useful lifetime, this phase will couple a
second-generation MIR station with a U.S. lab. According to the
proposal, this will eventually become "the core around which the
international space station will be constructed."
Phase III is the complete international space station, which will
support permanent human presence by 2001, and have full operational
and research capability. Designed to have an operational lifetime of
about ten years, the station will be serviceable by both U.S. and
Russian vehicles. Plans for assembly require 19 shuttle launches and
12 Russian booster launches. (This assumes an upgraded shuttle with
an aluminum lithium tank and various performance enhancements, but
without the Advanced Solid Rocket Motor.)
All command and control operations for the international station would
be under the direction of NASA's Mission Control Center at Houston,
which would also maintain responsibility for overall program
coordination, systems engineering integration, and safety. Back-up
operations capability would be provided by the Russian Space Agency at
Kaliningrad.
The proposal states that "the roles and responsibilities" of the
U.S.'s current International Partners as determined by the
Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) and Memoranda of Understanding "will
remain unchanged." For Phases II and III, Russia will become a full
International Partner and adhere to the existing IGA.
"Pending internal governmental procedures and final governmental
decisions, and concurrence of the space station partners," the
proposal says, "it is anticipated that Russia and the U.S. will
develop and conclude an interim arrangement by December 15, 1993."
Signing of the arrangement is expected to take place during a December
trip to Moscow by Vice President Gore.
The reaction to the proposal by Members of Congress is difficult to
anticipate. Senate VA/HUD Appropriations Subcommittee chair Barbara
Mikulski has concerns about the level of Russian participation. As
reported in FYI #134, the fiscal year 1994 budget language for NASA
included a clause capping the amount of space station money NASA can
spend until Congress has reviewed the joint station proposal.
While the ideas of a "world" space station and a "new world order" of
cooperation with Russia seem to have buoyed support for the station,
yet another congressional challenge is expected next week when further
cuts to the FY94 budget are considered.
###############
Public Information Division
American Institute of Physics
Contact: Audrey T. Leath
(202) 332-9662
##END##########
% ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ======
% Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 17:15:58 -0500 (EST)
% Resent-From: Jon Fink <JONATHAN.FINK@ASU.Edu>
% From: fyi@aip.org
% Subject: fyi#149_distr
% Resent-To: distribution:;@us1rmc.bb.dec.com (see end of body)
% Resent-Message-Id: <01H5707QNBV68Y50Z9@asu.edu>
% Apparently-To: volcano@asuvm.inre.asu.edu
|
| 641.9 | Original 2001 score released | JVERNE::KLAES | Be Here Now | Mon Mar 07 1994 20:37 | 227 |
| Article: 83726
From: higgins@fnalv.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: sci.space,rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Lost *2001* Score (was Re: The Simpsons (Was ALiens))
Date: 2 Mar 94 17:18:25 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
In article <2l2ebo$kk7@fitz.TC.Cornell.EDU>, strider@eos.acm.rpi.edu
(Greg Moore) writes:
> In article <940301131659@dfwalend> dfwalend@tasc.com writes:
>>Haven't seen the tape yet. Sounds great.
>>"2001" is realy Copland's "Anthem to the Common Man".
>>I always thought it was an odd choice for the movie.
> As others have pointed out, Copland's FANFARE for
> the Common Man, isn't in the movie.
>
> As you mention though, it can be thought of as
> an odd choice, but Also sprach Zarathustra (Thus Spoke
> Zarathustra) makes a great deal of sense.
[...]
> Another rumor I've heard, was that much of the
> music in the movie was put in just to fill blank spaces
> and was later going to have a score written, but money, time
> and I think a little good sense prevailed, and we got stcuk
> with Strauss.
Yes. What's more, the score intended for the film, which Stanley
Kubrick didn't use and which has been gathering dust for decades, has
just been recorded. Sorry, I don't remember the composer's name, the
conductor's name, or the title of the CD, but if I cross-post this to
rec.arts.sf.movies someone will come up with it lickety-split.
(I am fairly sure it's not "2001 Polkas.")
Small apologies for carrying this discussion so far in sci.space...
but probably most readers of this newsgroup are fond of *2001*, no?
--
O~~* /_) ' / / /_/ ' , , ' ,_ _ \|/
- ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / / / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
/ \ (_) (_) / | \
| | Bill Higgins Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
\ / Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET
- - Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
~ SPAN/Hepnet: 43009::HIGGINS
Article: 83728
From: clawson@mailer.fsu.edu (Charles E Lawson)
Newsgroups: sci.space,rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Lost *2001* Score (was Re: The Simpsons (Was ALiens))
Date: 2 Mar 1994 19:44:25 -0500
Organization: Florida State University
higgins@fnalv.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:
> Yes. What's more, the score intended for the film, which Stanley
> Kubrick didn't use and which has been gathering dust for decades, has
> just been recorded. Sorry, I don't remember the composer's name, the
> conductor's name, or the title of the CD, but if I cross-post this to
> rec.arts.sf.movies someone will come up with it lickety-split.
The "original" score for "2001" was composed by Alex North and is
currently available on a limited edition CD (label info. will be
forthcoming for anyone interested).
Apparently, Kubrick has a habit of falling in love with the "temp
tracks" of his movies (the temporary music directors often stick in
behind editing prints of their films to give the composer the idea of
the mood the director wants to establish) and he stuck with the temp
track of "2001" instead of using North's score.
Personally, I think that the excerpt from Khachaturian's _Gayne_ ballet
that Kubrick used as background for the long voyage to Jupiter was ideal.
ob. Space--Great music may be the best thing to preserve sanity for
those folks making interplanetary journeys
Chas.
((( * )))
|
/_\
|/| Charles Lawson (clawson@mailer.fsu.edu)
|\| Public Radio Center
|/| Tallahassee, FL
|\| --> My opinions are not those of my employer...blah, blah, blah... <--
|/| "Of all noises, I think music is the least disagreeable."
|\| --Samuel Johnson
|/| "Impiety: Your irreverence toward my deity." --Ambrose Bierce
Article: 83740
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: phoenix.Princeton.EDU!carlosn (Carlos G. Niederstrasser)
Subject: Re: The Simpsons (Was ALiens)
Sender: news@Princeton.EDU (USENET News System)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 20:43:36 GMT
In article <2l1m5d$88v@klaava.Helsinki.FI> tavaila@cc.Helsinki.FI
(Harri P J Tavaila) writes:
> > Haven't seen the tape yet. Sounds great.
> > "2001" is realy Copland's "Anthem to the Common Man".
> > I always thought it was an odd choice for the movie.
>
> > Dave
> > dfwalend@tasc.com
>
> The 2001 theme (ta-ta-taah-taa-ta-ta-taa, boum-boum-boum-boum etc.)
> is actually from Also Sprach Zarathustra by Richard Strauss. It
> is traditionally regarded as a symbol of sunsrise, though few
> people nowdays remember the original context.
The actual theme played in 2001 is the very beginning of Also Sprach
Zarathustra, a much longer piece. Ironacally it can easily be found
in tapes/CDs containing Holz's "The Planets," possibly as a result of
its new context.
> The Space Station theme is Blau Danau by Johann Strauss. (I hope
> I got that right - I frequently have difficulties to distinguish
> between the members of that family.)
Just to be nit-picky it is "On the beautiful Blue Danube" more
commonly refered to as "The Blue DAnube Waltz." Written by Johann
Strauss Jr. (as opposed to his father who also wrote plenty of music,
but is not as well known. They are not related in any way to Richard
Strauss (see above).
> As to the music in Simpsons - well, the series is no longer shown
> here (good riddance), so I couldn't tell.
The music featuring Homer floating around aiming for Potato Chips was
The Blue Danube. I don't recall if they had Zarathustra, but it would
have been at the end when Bart throws somthing which becomes a space station.
---
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Carlos G. Niederstrasser | The three C's of politics: |
| Princeton Planetary Society | Cash |
| National SEDS Vice Chair | Connections |
| | Charisma |
| carlosn@phoenix.princeton.edu |---------------------------------|
| space@phoenix.princeton.edu | Ad Astra per Ardua Nostra |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 83778
From: crdmi@vulcan.giss.nasa.gov (Daniel M. Israel)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: The Simpsons (Was ALiens)
Date: 3 Mar 1994 09:56:20 -0500
Organization: NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, NYC
In article <1994Mar2.204336.28098@Princeton.EDU>,
phoenix.Princeton.EDU!carlosn (Carlos G. Niederstrasser) writes:
> In article <2l1m5d$88v@klaava.Helsinki.FI> tavaila@cc.Helsinki.FI (Harri P J
> Tavaila) writes:
> > The Space Station theme is Blau Danau by Johann Strauss. (I hope
> > I got that right - I frequently have difficulties to distinguish
> > between the members of that family.)
>
> Just to be nit-picky it is "On the beautiful Blue Danube" more commonly
> refered to as "The Blue DAnube Waltz." Written by Johann Strauss Jr. (as
> opposed to his father who also wrote plenty of music, but is not as well
> known. They are not related in any way to Richard Strauss (see above)
If you are going to be nit-picky, then it is "An der schonen, blauen Donau."
--
Daniel M. Israel
<crdmi@vulcan.giss.nasa.gov>
Goddard Institute of Space Studies
2880 Broadway, New York, NY
Article: 83928
From: sauron@eeserver.ee.nus.sg (Soh Kam Yung)
Newsgroups: sci.space,rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Lost *2001* Score (was Re: The Simpsons (Was ALiens))
Date: 7 Mar 1994 05:56:35 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey (higgins@fnalv.fnal.gov) wrote:
: What's more, the score intended for the film, which Stanley
: Kubrick didn't use and which has been gathering dust for decades, has
: just been recorded. Sorry, I don't remember the composer's name, the
: conductor's name, or the title of the CD, but if I cross-post this to
: rec.arts.sf.movies someone will come up with it lickety-split.
It HAS been released. It's available on CD and it is called Alex North's 2001.
I do not have the CD with me now, but if you'll give me a day or two, I'll be
able to quote it's index number and manufacturer.
--
+----------------------------------------------------------+
+ Soh Kam Yung | sauron@ee.nus.sg | engp3010@leonis.nus.sg +
+----------------------------------------------------------+
+ "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." +
+ Mayor Salvor Hardin, "Foundation" by Isaac Asimov +
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Article: 83960
From: rcbajh@rwc.urc.tue.nl (Jeroen Haesenbos)
Newsgroups: sci.space,rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Lost *2001* Score (was Re: The Simpsons (Was ALiens))
Date: 7 Mar 1994 21:11:41 +0100
Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands
sauron@eeserver.ee.nus.sg (Soh Kam Yung) writes:
>Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey (higgins@fnalv.fnal.gov) wrote:
>: What's more, the score intended for the film, which Stanley
>: Kubrick didn't use and which has been gathering dust for decades, has
>: just been recorded. Sorry, I don't remember the composer's name, the
>: conductor's name, or the title of the CD, but if I cross-post this to
>: rec.arts.sf.movies someone will come up with it lickety-split.
>It HAS been released. It's available on CD and it is called Alex North's 2001.
>I do not have the CD with me now, but if you'll give me a day or two, I'll be
>able to quote it's index number and manufacturer.
It's available from Varese Sarabande (VSD-5400) and it's not a limited
edition.
--Jeroen
|
| 641.10 | RE 641.9 | JVERNE::KLAES | Be Here Now | Thu Mar 10 1994 15:41 | 44 |
| Article: 83977
Newsgroups: sci.space,rec.arts.sf.movies
From: schillng@austin.onu.edu (Walt Schilling Jr.)
Subject: Re: Lost *2001* Score (was Re: The Simpsons (Was ALiens))
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 01:11:12 GMT
Organization: Ohio Northern University
Soh Kam Yung (sauron@eeserver.ee.nus.sg) wrote:
: Soh Kam Yung (sauron@cesun1.ee.nus.sg) wrote:
: : Here is the information:
: : Name: Alex North's 2001
: : Conductor: Jerry Goldsmith (with National Philharmonic Orchestra)
: : Manufacturer: Varese Sarabande Records, Inc.
: : 13006 Saticoy St.,
: : North Hollywood,
: : California 91605.
: : Distributor: UNI Distribution Corp.,
: : 60 Universal City Plaza,
: : Universal City,
: : CA 91608.
: Silly of me...
: Catalog Number: VSD-5400 [sorry people...forgot to include this]
One of the fanfare's from this score is also available on the Telarc
release by the Cinbcinati Pops. It is the second set of movie scors
released. I've got the CD with me, but not right here at the PC. I
believe its called something like movie tracks, etc.
: --
: +----------------------------------------------------------+
: + Soh Kam Yung | sauron@ee.nus.sg | engp3010@leonis.nus.sg +
: +----------------------------------------------------------+
: + "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." +
: + Mayor Salvor Hardin, "Foundation" by Isaac Asimov +
: +----------------------------------------------------------+
--
----------Walter W. Schilling, Jr.---------------------------------------
| schillng@austin.onu.edu (School Address) |
| dg642@cleveland.freenet.edu (Home Address) |
| "To drive an XT to run software that was never meant to run on an XT."|
|
| 641.11 | Discovery trajectories et al | MTWAIN::KLAES | Keep Looking Up | Thu Jun 16 1994 16:21 | 692 |
| Article: 2127
From: MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 18:32:14 GMT
Organization: ABO AKADEMI UNIVERSITY, FINLAND
Yesterday, I took a another look at Arthur C Clarke's "2001: A Space Odyssey"
and wondered if the "USS Discovery" Jupiter/Saturn mission, as described in the
novel, holds water. ACC informs us that:
-the whole mission lasted about nine months, from launch to Saturn orbit
insertion
-the ship made an extremely close flyby (<1000km above the cloudtops) of
Jupiter to reach Saturn about 167 days later.
-USS Discovery was travelling at about 36km/s while inside the asteroid belt,
or slightly more than 3 million km a day. The distance from Earth was 150
million km one month after launch, suggesting the ship needed about four
months to reach Jupiter.
-The Saturn orbit insertion rocket burn took place over the night side of the
planet. USS Discovery then entered an elliptical parking orbit that took it
from the edge of the ring system (say 100,000km above the cloudtops [Voyager
2 space probe flyby in 1981]) out to small moon Iapetus (mean distance of about
3.4 million km) in about two weeks. There, it fired its engines for the last
time to brake into orbit around Iapetus.
-Iapetus' orbital period is 79 days, so assuming Discovery reached Saturn
sometime in 2001, there is only about four "launch windows" when Iapetus
is in the correct position for a rendezvous.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would appreciate it if somebody could run a computer simulation to see if
it works... I have already checked the positions of Jupiter and Saturn in
1998-2002: the planets appear to be much too close (a difference of a few
degrees only) for a Voyager type gravity assist to work. And an extremely close
flyby of Jupiter probably would "bend" the trajectory so much that the
spacecraft misses Saturn altogether - even if the USS Discovery appears to
be using a trajectory about 3 times faster than that used for the unmanned
Pioneer, Voyager and Ulysses probes...
MARCU$
////
(o o)
------------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo-----------------------------------
Computer Science Department
University of Abo Akademi, Finland
Email: MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI
MLINDROO@ATON.ABO.FI
MAIL: Marcus Lindroos, PL 402 A, 07880 Liljendal, FINLAND
Article: 2128
From: rdl1@ukc.ac.uk
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 94 09:39:12 GMT
Organization: University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.
In article <1994Jun5.183214.1310@abo.fi> MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI
(Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
>Yesterday, I took a another look at Arthur C Clarke's "2001: A Space Odyssey"
>and wondered if the "USS Discovery" Jupiter/Saturn mission, as described in the
>novel, holds water. ACC informs us that:
>
>-the whole mission lasted about nine months, from launch to Saturn orbit
>insertion
This is pretty damn fast: Cassini takes 7 years. Even the Voyagers took only
about 3 years.
>-the ship made an extremely close flyby (<1000km above the cloudtops) of
> Jupiter to reach Saturn about 167 days later.
>
>-The Saturn orbit insertion rocket burn took place over the night side of the
> planet. USS Discovery then entered an elliptical parking orbit that took it
> from the edge of the ring system (say 100,000km above the cloudtops [Voyager
> 2 space probe flyby in 1981])out to small moon Iapetus (mean distance of about
> 3.4 million km) in about two weeks. There, it fired its engines for the last
> time to brake into orbit around Iapetus.
Making an SOI burn at the edge of the rings is quite inefficient - Cassini
nips through a gap in the rings and makes SOI at 1.3Rs (its arrival orbit
is slightly inclined). Making SOI at the edge of the rings imposes a 50%
penalty on the SOI delta-V (circa 550 m/s)
Still, I guess if you have a propulsion system good enough to get you to
Saturn in 9 months, this isn't a problem.
Flight from Saturn to Iapetus in about 2 weeks is consistent with a closed
orbit around Saturn
>
>-Iapetus' orbital period is 79 days, so assuming Discovery reached Saturn
> sometime in 2001, there is only about four "launch windows" when Iapetus
> is in the correct position for a rendezvous.
True. Cassini has an even tougher time with Phoebe (so far out, a flyby is
only possible on the arrival asymptote before SOI. With its period of 523
days, the arrival date of Cassini is heavily driven by this flyby (as well
as a solar conjunction constraint at SOI)
>I would appreciate it if somebody could run a computer simulation to see if
>it works... I have already checked the positions of Jupiter and Saturn in
>1998-2002: the planets appear to be much too close (a difference of a few
>degrees only) for a Voyager type gravity assist to work. And an extremely
>close flyby of Jupiter probably would "bend" the trajectory so much that the
>spacecraft misses Saturn altogether - even if the USS Discovery appears to
>be using a trajectory about 3 times faster than that used for the unmanned
>Pioneer, Voyager and Ulysses probes...
You are right about the Jupiter flyby - Cassini makes its flyby at
something like 50Rj in December 2000, and the trajectory is hardly
bent at all. It takes about 3.5 years to reach Saturn from Jupiter at
Cassini's speed. In other words, the Jupiter flyby doesn't add a great
deal of energy to the trajectory
However, I think earlier (1998,1999) Jupiter is sufficiently far
behind Saturn that a near-rectilinear trajectory from the inner solar
system would be usefully deviated by a close Jupiter flyby, even for a
fast mission like discovery.
Thus all in all,
1. the Discovery trajectory is sufficiently fast that comparisons with
current-technology missions are only partly useful
2. the details that Clarke worked out (and I dare say he did work them out,
or at least look them up - when 2001 was written, the Grand Tour idea was
just being developed) seem quite plausible.
Hope this helps
Ralph Lorenz
Unit for Space Sciences
University of Kent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There can be no thought of finishing, for 'aiming for the stars,' both
literally and figuratively, is a problem to occupy generations, so that
no matter how much progress one makes, there is always the thrill of
just beginning." - Dr. Robert Goddard (in a letter to H. G. Wells)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 2141
From: madler@cco.caltech.edu (Mark Adler)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: 7 Jun 1994 17:29:28 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
>> Still, I guess if you have a propulsion system good enough to get you to
>> Saturn in 9 months, this isn't a problem.
Maybe. If it's a very low thrust system it would be lousy for Saturn
orbit insertion. You'd have to slow down long before you got there,
so almost none of your insertion delta-V would be taking advantage of
Saturn's gravity.
>> You are right about the Jupiter flyby - Cassini makes its flyby at something
>> like 50Rj in December 2000, and the trajectory is hardly bent at all.
Actually it's about 140 Rj. A quite gentle swingby (though it provides
a delta-V of about 2.2 km/s--about what the entire Cassini propulsion
system delivers over the mission).
Mark
Article: 2145
From: E.L.DAHLSTROM@LaRC.NASA.GOV (Eric Dahlstrom)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science,sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 17:14:26 -0500
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA
In article <9336@eagle.ukc.ac.uk>, rdl1@ukc.ac.uk writes:
> In article <1994Jun5.183214.1310@abo.fi> MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI
> (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
> >Yesterday, I took a another look at Arthur C Clarke's "2001: A Space
> >Odyssey" and wondered if the "USS Discovery" Jupiter/Saturn mission,
> >as described in the novel, holds water.
...
> ... the details that Clarke worked out (and I dare say he did work them
> out, or at least look them up - when 2001 was written, the Grand Tour idea
> was just being developed) seem quite plausible.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Ralph Lorenz
> Unit for Space Sciences
> University of Kent
(Hi Ralph!)
One thing I liked about the movie 2001 was the attention to details
like sun angles, etc. I'm not sure how much was really planned out,
but the sun angle on Discovery going to Jupiter always seemed
reasonable for an outbound trajectory. Also, the angles of the
sunlight on the Moon were not too far off for the whole 'uncover
monolith-get sunlight to hit it-set off interstellar fire alarm'
scenario. Using 'Clavius Base' to study the "Tycho Magnetic Anomaly"
(TMA-1) was a nice touch. I assumed this was due to Clarke's close
work with the movie production. (Clarke did mention that they decided
not to put the thermal radiators on the nuclear propulsion for the
Discovery vehicle - they looked too much like wings.)
I thought it was sad that 2010 allowed some pointless errors to creep
in. One example was the reference to the monolith discovery at
'Tranquility Base'. I understand Clarke only consulted by email for
the 2010 movie. There was a book of the email messages published.
(I think it contains a minor mention of Todd Hawley and SEDS and
pre-ISU plans with Clarke.)
I guess the 2010 production considered having the actor Roy Schneider
more important than precise space mission accuracy. Too bad they
couldn't get Schneider to put a little more effort into his 'zero-g'
acting. It's pretty funny when he walks around normally and then lets
go of a pen that floats in the air.
- Eric
* E.L.Dahlstrom@LaRC.NASA.GOV * +1 804-766-9635 * ISU'91 USA *
* Lockheed Eng & Sci Co, 144 Research Drive, Hampton, VA 23666 *
* home: 6314 Auburn Lane, Hampton, VA 23666 * +1 804-838-4797 *
* ISU Barcelona: +31-3-581-2900,-2901 fax, June 20-Sept 2,1994 *
Article: 2585
From: dlevine@nemesis.gatech.edu (David A. Levine)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: 9 Jun 1994 04:06:41 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
In article <9336@eagle.ukc.ac.uk>, rdl1@ukc.ac.uk writes:
> In article <1994Jun5.183214.1310@abo.fi> MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI
> (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
> >Yesterday, I took a another look at Arthur C Clarke's "2001: A Space
> >Odyssey" and wondered if the "USS Discovery" Jupiter/Saturn mission,
> >as described in the novel, holds water.
..
> ... the details that Clarke worked out (and I dare say he did work them
> out, or at least look them up - when 2001 was written, the Grand Tour idea
> was just being developed) seem quite plausible.
>
> Hope this helps
In article , <9406071714.AA26554@MACIIcx>, E.L.DAHLSTROM@LaRC.NASA.GOV (Eric
Dahlstrom) writes:
>One thing I liked about the movie 2001 was the attention to
>details like sun angles, etc. I'm not sure how much was really
>planned out, but the sun angle on Discovery going to Jupiter
>always seemed reasonable for an outbound trajectory
>Also, the angles of the sunlight on the Moon were not too far
>off for the whole 'uncover monolith-get sunlight to hit it-set off
>interstellar fire alarm' scenario. Using 'Clavius Base' to study
>the "Tycho Magnetic Anomaly" (TMA-1) was a nice touch.
>I assumed this was due to Clarke's close work with the movie
>production. (Clarke did mention that they decided not to
>put the thermal radiators on the nuclear propulsion for
>the Discovery vehicle - they looked too much like wings.) ...
On a related topic... One thing about 2001 that has botherer me for
some time is the scene when David Bowman tries to ingress to Discovery
without a helmet... If I had been Bowman, and before attempting such a
risky operation, I think I would had gone after the communication
antennas or tried to sabotage a critical system. If the antennas had
been put out of commision, HAL most likely would had required the help
of Bowman to fix them, and therefore would had allowed him in. Ok, you
can say that if Discovery had been left without any useful antennas,
HAL anyway would had gone ahead with the mission and then return back
to earth some years later to deliver its findings...
On the other hand, HAL being such an intelligent machine :-), should
had *thought* in a microsecond that Bowman had a chance, albeit a very
small one, to get aboard the ship alive. If I had been HAL I would had
started the engines to leave Bowman behind (and I bet compensating for
this wouldn't have been much of a problem later on). But if this had
happened, the movie would had probably ended right there, and this
wouldn't had been fun :-( ... Comments??
David A. Levine | Be network-friendly:
Georgia Institute of Technology | Use a short, unsophisticated signature
Internet: dlevine@nemesis.gatech.edu | to end your posting.
Article: 2155
From: neal_sofge@rand.org (Neal Sofge)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science,sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 19:29:01 GMT
Organization: RAND
In Article <9406071714.AA26554@MACIIcx>, E.L.DAHLSTROM@LaRC.NASA.GOV (Eric
Dahlstrom) wrote:
>I thought it was sad that 2010 allowed some pointless errors to creep in.
>Too bad they couldn't get Schneider to put a little more
>effort into his 'zero-g' acting. It's pretty funny when he walks
>around normally and then lets go of a pen that floats in the air.
That's the worst example, but what bothered me was the pacing. All the
space operations were way too fast, like the entire probe scene. One
of the cool things about 2001 was the glacial pace of all the spacewalks,
docking ops, etc. Not as slow as real life, but as slow as Kubrick could
make them. That doesn't work for the MTV generation.
Also, given the layout of Discovery, the angular momentum transfer
that tumbles the ship seems impossible - the centrifuge has to be on
another axis.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neal Sofge (Neal_Sofge@rand.org) | Life is an RPG, run by an idiot,
These are my opinions, not RAND's. | Full of badly designed mechanics,
Home/FMG: neals@aol.com (slow) | Signifying nothing.
Article: 2157
From: higgins@fnalv.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science,sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: 8 Jun 94 13:15:58 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
In article <9406071714.AA26554@MACIIcx>, E.L.DAHLSTROM@LaRC.NASA.GOV
(Eric Dahlstrom) writes:
[remarks by Eric, Marcus Lindroos, and Ralph Lorenz about *2001's*
admirable attention to technical detail deleted]
> I assumed this was due to Clarke's close work with the movie production.
Not Clarke alone. There was plenty of work for other technical
advisors, notably Harry Lange and Fred Ordway. It's time to recycle an
old posting of mine, written, to my surprise, in response to ANOTHER
posting by Marcus Lindroos in early 1993. I guess Marcus really likes
this movie. So do I!
In addition to the book I mention below, another good place to get
information on the movie is *The Making of 2001*, slapped together, if
not exactly written, by Jerome Agel.
======
From: higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: 2001/2010 Rocket Engines - What are they?
Message-ID: <1993Jan21.110438.1@fnalf.fnal.gov>
Date: 21 Jan 93 11:04:38 -0600
References: <1993Jan21.102943.5124@abo.fi> <1993Jan21.120247.11867@abo.fi>
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
Lines: 40
In article <1993Jan21.120247.11867@abo.fi>, MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI
(Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
> Any idea what kind of engines the "Discovery" and "Alexei Leonov" of "2010 -
> Odyssey Two" were using?
Yup. For the *Discovery* they are gaseous-core fission engines-- in
other words, a fission reactor running at a *really* high temperature,
20,000 degrees F (11,000 C). (If I were a journalist, I probably
would have written 11093.33 degrees C...) Liquid hydrogen flows past
this to serve as exhaust fluid and to help keep the graphite walls
cooled. Consult a book on advanced space propulsion for details.
Source: Frederick I. Ordway, III, "*2001: A Space Odyssey* in
Retrospect," p. 47-105 in the book *Science Fiction and Space Futures*
by Eugene M. Emme (AAS History Series, Volume 5), Univelt. Fred was a
technical advisor on the film and this article is a great source of
behind-the-scenes information and pictures (fifty pages' worth!).
I don't know of anyplace where the propulsion of the *Leonov* is
discussed, but it's reasonable to suppose they use gas-core engines too.
I always thought this technology was a trifle advanced to be ready in
only 2001, but remember that Kubrick's people were busy little beavers
in the 34 years following 1967-- they had dug out underground hangars
on the Moon for their spacecraft, with elevators, had started regular
Pan Am service to orbit, had built half a space station (but Clarke
pointed out in the Fifties in *Islands in the Sky* that you would
finish building the wheel FIRST, and THEN spin it up!), and by 12
January 1992 had achieved artificial intelligence.
It is sad to think that *they* were supposed to be *us*. :-(
--
O~~* /_) ' / / /_/ ' , , ' ,_ _ \|/
- ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / / / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
/ \ (_) (_) / | \
| | Bill Higgins Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
\ / Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET
- - Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
~ SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS
Article: 2161
From: lver@ksu.ksu.edu (Lloyd Paul Verhage)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science,sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: 8 Jun 1994 15:47:48 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
I was watching 2001 just this week and I caught another mistake. At
the opening they show the moon with the Earth rising behind it, but it
was the "front" side of the moon, in otherwords, they got the moon
backwards with respect to the Earth.
Oh well, its still a good movie.
Article: 2597
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
From: anderson@kosepc01.delcoelect.com (Alan Anderson)
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Sender: news@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Usenet News Account)
Organization: Delco Electronics Corporation
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 15:28:20 GMT
In <2t64gh$rcp@nntp.crl.com>,
dlevine@nemesis.gatech.edu (David A. Levine) writes:
> [...]
>If I had been Bowman, and before attempting such a risky operation, I think I
>would had gone after the communication antennas or tried to sabotage a
>critical system. If the antennas had been put out of commision, HAL most
>likely would had required the help of Bowman to fix them, and therefore would
>had allowed him in. Ok, you can say that if Discovery had been left without
>any useful antennas, HAL anyway would had gone ahead with the mission and
>then return back to earth some years later to deliver its findings...
> [...]
Actually, HAL had already sabotaged the communication antennas.
That's what Poole was out trying to fix.
=============================================================================
Alan Anderson || If they put a bunch of cattle in orbit,
(Ham Radio WB9RUF) || would it be the herd shot 'round the world?
My views may not necessarily be those of Delco Electronics or its management.
Article: 2164
From: justinf@cco.caltech.edu (Justin Fang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science,sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 1994 22:50:23 -0800
Organization: chaotic
In article <1994Jun8.131558.1@fnalv.fnal.gov>, higgins@fnalv.fnal.gov (Bill
Higgins-- Beam Jockey) wrote:
> In article <1993Jan21.120247.11867@abo.fi>, MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI
> (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
> > Any idea what kind of engines the "Discovery" and "Alexei Leonov" of "2010 -
> > Odyssey Two" were using?
[Discovery uses gaseous-core nuclear fission]
> I don't know of anyplace where the propulsion of the *Leonov* is
> discussed, but it's reasonable to suppose they use gas-core engines too.
In the book version of 2010 the Leonov's engines use muon-catalyzed
"cold" fusion to heat up reaction mass ("cold" here being "less than
several million degrees").
Justin Fang (justinf@cco.caltech.edu, justinf@ugcs.caltech.edu)
This space intentionally left blank.
Article: 2171
From: MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 15:19:18 GMT
Organization: ABO AKADEMI UNIVERSITY, FINLAND
In <2t5aj5$2eg@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> lver@ksu.ksu.edu writes:
> madler@cco.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) writes:
>
> >>> like 50Rj in December 2000, and the trajectory is hardly bent at
> all. It takes
>
> >Actually it's about 140 Rj. A quite gentle swingby (though it provides
> >a delta-V of about 2.2 km/s--about what the entire Cassini propulsion
> >system delivers over the mission).
>
> Is there a simple way to calculate the delta v of a gravity
> assist? Something I could do with a calculator?
Unfortunately, I think the answer is "no." Henry Spencer (in a private
post) once tried to explain it to me...went clean through my head:-)
You apparently need to deal with velocity vectors in all three
dimensions, and naturally must calculate the position of the planet(s)
as well. I know how to do the latter but it is a fairly labor
intensive process (using a program is preferable).
---
Hohmann transfer orbits are MUCH easier: there are neat, simple
equations that allow you to calculate the time of arrival, departure
and required delta-V with little effort. I could post a summary if
someone is interested.
> Thanks
MARCU$
Article: 2172
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 15:41:16 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
In article <neal_sofge.1121491381C@nntp.rand.org> neal_sofge@rand.org
(Neal Sofge) writes:
>Also, given the layout of Discovery, the angular momentum transfer that
>tumbles the ship seems impossible - the centrifuge has to be on another axis.
Any book on spacecraft dynamics will tell you the answer to this one:
the axis of rotation remains fixed in space, but the orientation of
the *ship* with respect to that axis can change. The ship is not a
rigid object, not completely, and that changes many things -- intuition
based on simple rigid-body mechanics gives the wrong answers.
As a case in point, Explorer 1 -- shaped like a small rocket --
started out spinning around its long axis, but quite quickly ended up
tumbling end over end. The spin axis hadn't changed, but the
satellite's axis was now at right angles to the spin axis instead of
aligned with it. You can't spin a satellite on an arbitrarily-chosen
axis and expect the spin to be stable.
Clarke got this one right. Discovery *would* end up tumbling end over
end fairly soon if it was no longer being actively stabilized by a
control system.
--
"...the Russians are coming, and the | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
launch cartel is worried." - P.Fuhrman | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
Article: 2174
From: madler@cco.caltech.edu (Mark Adler)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: 9 Jun 1994 17:44:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
>> Is there a simple way to calculate the delta v of a gravity
>> assist? Something I could do with a calculator?
Yes. Relative to the gravity assist body the delta-V is only a change
in angle, not magnitude. You can compute that angle from the body's
mass (or better GM, which is known more accurately), the v-infinity
(velocity magnitude before the body starts significantly pulling it
in), and the closest approach radius from the center of the body.
Then sin(alpha/2) = 1/(1 + r v_inf^2/(GM)), where alpha is the bending
angle.
Then you need to go to another frame, e.g. heliocentric, and add and
subtract some vectors to get the delta-V (a vector) in that frame.
This will depend on the relative directions in that frame of the
spacecraft or small body and the gravity assist body. As a typical
example, take a spacecraft coming from the inside of the large body's
orbit, just behind the body, and maybe at 30 degrees to the body's
orbit. Incoming velocities of around 10 to 20 km/s at Jupiter or
Saturn might be typical.
Then compute the magnitude of that delta-V, and you have an idea of what
a propulsion system would have had to have done to get the same effect.
It doesn't have to be a planet assist to a solar trajectory. It could
be a lunar assist on an Earth orbit (like Clementine) or a Titan
assist on a Saturn orbit (like Cassini) for example. It can also be
used more for a plane change than a speedup (like Ulysses).
Mark
Article: 2168
From: petev@gdstech.grumman.com (Peter Venetoklis)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001: A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 14:26:47 GMT
Organization: Grumman Data Systems-Woodbury
In article <2t5aj5$2eg@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> lver@ksu.ksu.edu (Lloyd Paul
Verhage) writes:
>madler@cco.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) writes:
>
>>>> like 50Rj in December 2000, and the trajectory is hardly bent at
> all. It takes
>
>>Actually it's about 140 Rj. A quite gentle swingby (though it provides
>>a delta-V of about 2.2 km/s--about what the entire Cassini propulsion
>>system delivers over the mission).
>
>Is there a simple way to calculate the delta v of a gravity
>assist? Something I could do with a calculator?
Depends on what you mean by simple. A gravity assist maneuver does
not change the magnitude of the vehicle's velocity vector with respect
to the planet being swung around. It changes the direction of that
vector. The effective delta v is the delta v that you'd have to
produce to simulate the effect of the gravity assist.
Step 1, figure out V infinity wrt the assisting body. Start by
computing the heliocentric velocity where the spacecraft approaches
the body. Then subtract the body's velocity vector wrt the sun. You
now have V infinity wrt the body, which remains constant in magnitude.
Step 2, figure out how much rotation the body generates. The following
formulas are useful, although I wish I could show you a picture.
e = 1 + Vinf^2*rp/mu
rp is the closest approach to the body
mu is the body's gravitational parameter
psi = 2*asin(1/e)
psi is the angle of rotation of the V infinity vector.
Step 3, add the new V infinity vector to the body's heliocentric velocity.
You now have the spacecraft's new velocity vector around the Sun.
Step 4, subtract the incoming V from the new V and you have the
effective delta-V.
Some useful stuff:
Mu Sun = 132712441933 Km^3/Sec^2
Mu Jupiter = 126685808
V at a point in an orbit = sqrt(mu(2/r - 1/a))
r = distance from attracting body
a = orbit semi-major axis.
Hope this helps!! E-mail me if you have trouble.
--
____________________________________________________________________
Peter Venetoklis petev@gdstech.grumman.com
Senior Engineer - Mission Analysis Northrop Grumman Corporation
Opinions are mine, not Grumman's, not Northrop's, not anyone else's.
Article: 2611
From: n4hy@tang.ccr-p.ida.org (Bob McGwier)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: 10 Jun 94 10:44:37
Organization: IDA Center for Communications Research
Bowman DID fix the antenna. It was how he managed to conduct the rest
of the mission unaided by Hal's intelligence. Primary thinking
machine was the back at mission control.
Bob
--
Robert W. McGwier | n4hy@ccr-p.ida.org: ham radio, scouts,
Center for Communications Research | astronomy, golf (o yea, & math!) ASM
Princeton, N.J. 08520 | Troop 5700, ACM Pack 53, Sanhican #2 WWW
(609)-279-6240(v) (609)-924-3061(f)| I used to be a Buffalo . . . NE III-120
Article: 2181
From: thomsona@netcom.com (Allen Thomson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science,sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 13:28:21 GMT
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey (higgins@fnalv.fnal.gov) wrote:
: In article <1993Jan21.120247.11867@abo.fi>, MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI
: > (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
: > Any idea what kind of engines the "Discovery" and "Alexei Leonov" of "2010
: > Odyssey Two" were using?
: Yup. For the *Discovery* they are gaseous-core fission engines-- in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: other words, a fission reactor running at a *really* high temperature,
: 20,000 degrees F (11,000 C). (If I were a journalist, I probably
: would have written 11093.33 degrees C...) Liquid hydrogen flows past
: this to serve as exhaust fluid and to help keep the graphite walls
: cooled. Consult a book on advanced space propulsion for details.
: Source: Frederick I. Ordway, III, "*2001: A Space Odyssey* in
: Retrospect," p. 47-105 in the book *Science Fiction and Space Futures*
: by Eugene M. Emme (AAS History Series, Volume 5), Univelt. Fred was a
One of the interesting projects in the FUSSR was a fairly serious
effort to design a gas-core reactor using magnetic confinement of the
uranium plasma. Aside from use as a rocket, it was going to serve as
the front end for an MHD generator. Work seems to have centered at
NIITP (Scientific Research Institute of Thermal Processes) in Moscow
with V.M. Ievlev being the person in charge.
|
| 641.12 | RE 641.11 | MTWAIN::KLAES | Keep Looking Up | Tue Jun 28 1994 17:41 | 408 |
| Article: 2216
From: justwink@aol.com (JustWINK)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: 13 Jun 1994 00:36:03 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
As a Kubrick fanatic, I've followed with great interest your
discussion pertaining to the trajectory of the spaceship Discovery in
2001. Found the article referred to and it is indeed wonderful. Some
time ago, I came across the formula for calculating centrifugal force
(which I cannot find right now). Just for fun, I watched a few
relevant parts of 2001 and timed the rotation of the centrifuges. I
estimated the diameters and found that while the "big wheel" in Earth
orbit was approximately right, the internal centrifuge in the Discovery
was much too slow for 1G. I'm sorry I don't have the figures at hand,
but I seem to recall that it was something like 1/4 G. Also, I believe
that the rotation varied somewhat in different scenes.
Has anyone speculated on the dynamics of a centrifuge as small as this
one (45ft diam or so)? Would the coriolis effect wreak havoc with
ones sense of balance when standing up or sitting down? Better yet,
what about jogging around the perimeter, as we see Dave doing? Would
your apparent weight be reduced going one direction and increased the
other? If you could match the rotation speed and cancel it ought
would you be "weightless" and be free to float? And ball games would
certainly be interesting...
2001 is without doubt one the greatest film experiences ever produced
and has provided me with countless hours of fascination. Interesting,
though, that we all choose to overlook, for the most part, what might
someday be considered a glaring set of errors. The only area in
Discovery with "gravity" is the centrifuge, yet the astronauts
routinely walk (fairly normally, unlike the PanAm stewardess with
velcro shoes) around, and even climb ladders. Not until the air-lock
re-entry and the Hal 9000 lobotomy sequence is micro-G invoked. In
all fairness this aspect presented an essentially insurmountable
challenge, and virtually every SF film ever made is guilty of this
"great gravity cop-out" to some extent. For an excellent recent film
treatment of the whole gravity issue, see "Star Trek 6: The Undiscovered
Country." In a stunning sequence, a spacecraft loses and then regains
artificial gravity. Convincing right down to the quivering blood
globules flying from the mortally wounded aliens, which hurtle to the
floor upon re-activation of the G force.
If you've been wondering what Stanley might do with modern computer
graphics, you're going to get to find out. Warner Bros recently
announced that he will be filming "AI" (after artificial intelligence),
a story about humanoid servants in a future utopian society. Evidently
he has wanted to do this for some time, but did not think it possible
until he saw Jurrasic Park. Given his strong sense of visual design,
this should be, to say the least, interesting. Don't hold your breath,
though. Filming may not start for a year or more...
Charles "wink" Peck --- "Everything is relative:
absolutely everything" ---
Article: 2226
From: higgins@fnalv.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science,sci.space.tech
Subject: Rednukes (was Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel))
Date: 13 Jun 94 19:00:35 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
In article <thomsonaCr6o39.Ez9@netcom.com>, thomsona@netcom.com (Allen
Thomson) writes:
> One of the interesting projects in the FUSSR was a fairly serious
> effort to design a gas-core reactor using magnetic confinement of
> the uranium plasma. Aside from use as a rocket, it was going to
> serve as the front end for an MHD generator. Work seems to have
> centered at NIITP (Scientific Research Institute of Thermal
> Processes) in Moscow with V.M. Ievlev being the person in charge.
It has occurred to me that digging up information on various nuclear
engine projects in the USSR would be a real challenge to the
rocket-history gang. It would be interesting to know the technical
details and history of these programs.
The sharp, "Krac!"-type explosions don't | Bill Higgins
do it for me, and the big rumbly booms | Fermilab
only partly do it, but a good solid "KBAM!" | Internet: higgins@fnal.fnal.gov
just makes me fall over laughing. | Bitnet: higgins@fnal
--Jon Singer (jon@guest.Apple.COM) | SPAN/Hepnet: 43009::higgins
Article: 2242
From: justwink@aol.com (JustWINK)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: 15 Jun 1994 06:55:01 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
In article <2tgnnj$krj@search01.news.aol.com>, I wrote "Not until the
air-lock re-entry and the Hal 9000 lobotomy sequence is micro-G invoked."
I spoke without thinking...
How could I forget the wonderful EVA sequences in which micro-G
was handled very well indeed? Especially striking was the sequence
in which the lifeless body of Frank Poole is retrieved and later
released with the waldos. Outstanding!
Oh well, what could poor Stanley do? I suppose he may have
considered building a film studio on KC-135 and doing it all in 30
second takes. Wouldn't the actors have loved that...
Charles "wink" Peck --- "Everything is relative: absolutely everything!"
Article: 2250
From: neal_sofge@rand.org (Neal Sofge)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 21:06:32 GMT
Organization: RAND
justwink@aol.com (JustWINK) wrote:
>the internal centrifuge in the
>Discovery was much too slow for 1G. I'm sorry I don't have the
>figures at hand, but I seem to recall that it was something like 1/4 G.
There's no reason not to run the centrifuge at lower velocities, so
that the Coriolis effects are diminished and the engineering requirements
made less stringent. Reduced gravity is better than none at all.
>what about jogging around the perimeter, as we see Dave doing?
>Would your apparent weight be reduced going one direction and
>increased the other?
Yes.
>the astronauts routinely walk (fairly normally, unlike the PanAm
>stewardess with velcro shoes) around, and even climb ladders.
The only spot where this bothers me is in the pod bay, and there it's
easily explained away with magnetic shoes. The command deck's weird
angles demonstrate it's zero-g.
[Star Trek VI]
>Convincing right down to the quivering blood globules flying from the mortally
>wounded aliens, which hurtle to the floor upon re-activation of the G force.
Sure, but is the fact that trained naval personnel are totally helpless when
the gravity cuts out that convincing? Or that everything suddenly moves to
the center of the compartment when the gravity goes?
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neal Sofge (Neal_Sofge@rand.org) | Life is an RPG, run by an idiot,
These are my opinions, not RAND's. | Full of badly designed mechanics,
Home/FMG: neals@aol.com (slow) | Signifying nothing.
Article: 2244
From: john@uncc.edu (John Childers)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Od
Date: 15 Jun 1994 20:17:56 GMT
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte
In article krj@search01.news.aol.com, justwink@aol.com (JustWINK) writes:
>As a Kubrick fanatic, I've followed with great interest your
>discussion pertaining to the trajectory of the spaceship Discovery
>in 2001. Found the article referred to and it is indeed wonderful.
>Some time ago, I came across the formula for calculating centrifugal
>force (which I cannot find right now). Just for fun, I watched a few
>relevant parts of 2001 and timed the rotation of the centrifuges. I
>estimated the diameters and found that while the "big wheel" in earth
>orbit was approximately right, the internal centrifuge in the
>Discovery was much too slow for 1G. I'm sorry I don't have the
>figures at hand, but I seem to recall that it was something like 1/4
>G. Also, I believe that the rotation varied somewhat in different scenes.
In the novel Clarke said it was 1/6 G. The reasoning was that if 1/6
G was good enough on on the Moon it was good enough on the "Discovery".
>Has anyone speculated on the dynamics of a centrifuge as small as
>this one (45ft diam or so)? Would the coriolis effect wreak havoc
>with ones sense of balance when standing up or sitting down? Better
I've seen video of cosmonauts living and working in a small centrifuge,
must have been a Nova episode. No problems were mentioned but that was
not the shows subject.
>yet, what about jogging around the perimeter, as we see Dave doing?
>Would your apparent weight be reduced going one direction and
>increased the other? If you could match the rotation speed and
>cancel it ought would you be "weightless" and be free to float? And
Yes, weight would change when velocity is increased or decreased. Free
to float, not really, the centrifuge will drag air around with it. This
should start anything floating moving toward the floor.
>ball games would certainly be interesting...
I cann't handle ball games in normal gravity. Might gust even the odds?
>2001 is without doubt one the greatest film experiences ever produced
>and has provided me with countless hours of fascination.
>Interesting, though, that we all choose to overlook, for the most
>part, what might someday be considered a glaring set of errors. The
>only area in Discovery with "gravity" is the centrifuge, yet the
>astronauts routinely walk (fairly normally, unlike the PanAm
>stewardess with velcro shoes) around, and even climb ladders. Not
>until the air-lock re-entry and the Hal 9000 lobotomy sequence is
>micro-G invoked. In all fairness this aspect presented an
>essentially insurmountable challenge, and virtually every SF film
>ever made is guilty of this "great gravity cop-out" to some extent.
>For an excellent recent film treatment of the whole gravity issue,
>see "Star Trek- The Undiscovered Country." In a stunning sequence, a
>spacecraft loses and then regains artificial gravity. Convincing
>right down to the quivering blood globules flying from the mortally
>wounded aliens, which hurtle to the floor upon re-activation of the G force.
The fake slow motion walk as free fall is bad, but Star Trek's aleins
drifting around helplessly when the "gravity" is turned off is worse.
It suggest to people that we have to have gravity to work.
Opps, seem to be moving out of the tech groupe here.
---
John Childers |
UNCCharlotte | We're sorry, your .sig is down
Internet? Try | for schedualed main power maintenance.
john@opticslab1.uncc.edu|
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer? Does anyone on the net ever officially speak for their computer?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 2256
From: michaelc@everest.tandem.com (chan_michael)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 20:07:38 GMT
Organization: Tandem Computers Inc., Cupertino CA
In article <2tmmm5$6an@search01.news.aol.com>, justwink@aol.com
(JustWINK) writes:
> How could I forget the wonderful EVA sequences in which micro-G
>was handled very well indeed? Especially striking was the sequence
>in which the lifeless body of Frank Poole is retrieved and later
>released with the waldos. Outstanding!
Read somewhere that it only looks like slow motion on film; the actual
sequence had the stunt man in the space suit hit the pod arms at pretty
good speed. The collision was enough to chip a tiny piece from either
the suit or the pod arms. In the film, you can see this piece fall
straight down. Check it out.
_________
Mike Chan
My observations are my own, not my employer's.
Article: 2749
From: petev@gdstech.grumman.com (Peter Venetoklis)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: 2001 (Was: "Discovery Trajectory")
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 15:25:45 GMT
Organization: GRUMMAN DATA SYSTEMS
In article <2tr56k$f05@oak.zilker.net> malirath@zilker.net (Robert
Fisher) writes:
> I recently got to watch the laserdisc version of _2001_.
>It still amazes me. I think they did a wonderful job of handling
>micro-gravity as well as all other aspects of realism. Sure, it's
>not perfect, but they did a better job in that 1968 (if I remember
>the date right) movie than they've done in any I've seen since.
>(The micro-gravity acting in _2010_ really annoys me.)
> Why is it that movie makers seem to hate the idea of making
>realistic sci-fi? So far, my favorite sci-fi movies are _2001_
>and the Harrison Ford movie based on _Do_Androids_Dream_of_Electronic_
>Sheep_ (which, for some reason, I can't remember the title of).
>Both combined a good story with fairly realistic science. (Isn't
>that what sci-fi is supposed to be?)
The Harrison Ford movie is _Blade Runner_
Realistic science is boring in movies. That's why you can hear
explosions in space, people explode in vacuum, and the Enterprise can
violate its own rules about traveling at speed (Ever wonder how they
ever got anywhere at speeds less than Warp 9? at Warp 5, it takes 3
days to go a light year, and the Federation was at least 1000 light
years across. At warp 9, the Enterprise travels 9^3 times c, which is
a light year every 12 hours. Even the closest stars would require
days of travel, yet they seem to take only a few hours in
emergencies). Then again, FTL is not realistic science anyway.
Be careful about defining what sf is and is not. You'll start an
endless flame war.
Most people don't care that the science shown in movies is realistic.
Since movie producers want to make $$, they cater to what most people want.
____________________________________________________________________
Peter Venetoklis petev@gdstech.grumman.com
Senior Engineer - Mission Analysis Northrop Grumman Corporation
Opinions are mine, not Grumman's, not Northrop's, not anyone else's.
Article: 2303
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 02:27:22 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
In article <2tgnnj$krj@search01.news.aol.com> justwink@aol.com
(JustWINK) writes:
>Has anyone speculated on the dynamics of a centrifuge as small as
>this one (45ft diam or so)? Would the coriolis effect wreak havoc
>with ones sense of balance when standing up or sitting down? ...
Current wisdom is that rotation speed really must be restricted to
circa 3RPM to avoid inner-ear problems. You might be able to push
that a bit with careful crew selection. This severely limits what
you can do with small centrifuges. This problem wasn't understood
back when Clarke was writing 2001.
--
"All I really want is a rich uncle." | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
- Wernher von Braun | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
Article: 2304
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 02:32:44 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
In article <neal_sofge.1122102032C@nntp.rand.org> neal_sofge@rand.org
(Neal Sofge) writes:
>There's no reason not to run the centrifuge at lower velocities, so that the
>Coriolis effects are diminished and the engineering requirements made less
>stringent. Reduced gravity is better than none at all.
Actually, that's not a self-evident fact. Indeed, it's an open research
problem. Is 0.95G essentially equivalent to 1G? Probably. Is 0.05G any
better than 0G? Probably not. In between is anybody's guess; we simply
have no useful data. Our *only* data on reduced gravity is a few man-days
in 0.16G, with limited biomedical monitoring and substantial periods of
free fall before and after to complicate matters.
--
"All I really want is a rich uncle." | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
- Wernher von Braun | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
Article: 2325
From: andyg@sequent.com (Andrew Guilbert)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science,sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Od
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 07:23:38 GMT
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
ss8jmc0@eureka.ballarat.edu.au (Julian Cosson) writes:
>What is gaseous-core nuclear fission ?
In the book, "The Lost Worlds of 2001" Arthur C. Clarke discusses the
metamorphoses of the plot and hardware used in 2001. If I remember
rightly, there is a fairly good chapter on the various types of drive
he considered and the dramatic licenses taken.
Worth a look if you can borrow a copy.
Andy
Article: 2328
From: thomsona@netcom.com (Allen Thomson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science,sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Od
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 10:41:21 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
In article <2u5bqc$cup@eureka> ss8jmc0@eureka.ballarat.edu.au writes:
>>[Discovery uses gaseous-core nuclear fission]
>
>What is gaseous-core nuclear fission ?
>
>Julian Cosson
A "gas core reactor" is one in which the fuel is in the gaseous (like
UF6) or plasma state. In the context of nuclear rockets, one usually
means the latter. Needless to say, confining many kilograms of
fissioning uranium at a temperature of several kilokelvins would be a
nontrivial engineering task, and I don't know that such a device has
ever been built. (There were a lot of design studies and some
nonnuclear lab work done in the 1950s through 1970s, though.)
Article: 2335
From: neal_sofge@rand.org (Neal Sofge)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech
Subject: Re: "Discovery" trajectory (2001:A Space Odyssey novel)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 20:43:23 GMT
Organization: RAND
>>Reduced gravity is better than none at all.
>
>Actually, that's not a self-evident fact. Indeed, it's an open research
>problem...we simply have no useful data.
I was thinking more of the engineering aspects than the biomedical
ones, since the biomed data is going to be unknown for some time. With
a little gravity things like toilets and coffee mugs are simpler to
design, and you can sleep without strapping in.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neal Sofge (Neal_Sofge@rand.org) | Life is an RPG, run by an idiot,
These are my opinions, not RAND's. | Full of badly designed mechanics,
Home/FMG: neals@aol.com (slow) | Signifying nothing.
|
| 641.13 | Gas core reactor/rockets references | MTWAIN::KLAES | Houston, Tranquility Base here... | Tue Jul 26 1994 21:20 | 155 |
| Article: 2507
From: thomsona@netcom.com (Allen Thomson)
Newsgroups: sci.space.tech
Subject: Gas Core Reactor/Rockets
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 1994 02:25:32 GMT
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
This was posted to sci.space.tech a couple of weeks ago, but seem
to have gone to bit.limbo. It followed some discussion of the propulsion
used in the movie 2001 and gas-core nuclear propulsion systems.
***********************************************************************
I checked one of our bibliographic CD ROMs and found some recent
papers on gas core reactors -- these are three which seemed to be
interesting:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tendencies of high temperature gas core reactors for NTP and space power
plants development
GLINIK, RAFAIL A. (NPO Energomash, Moscow, Russia)
AIAA, SAE, ASME, and ASEE, Joint Propulsion Conference and Exhibit, 29th,
Monterey, CA, June 28-30, 1993. 6 p.
Publication Date: Jun. 1993 4 Refs.
Report No.: AIAA PAPER 93-2366
This paper examines the development tendencies of the high-temperature
gas phase fuel elements (GPFEs) and gas core nuclear reactors (GCRs).
Particular attention is given to the developent program for the gaseous
fuel elements in an experimental pulse graphite reactor (IGR) with a
thermal neutron flux density up to 10 exp 15 t.n./sq cm s. Diagrams of the
reactor, the liquid metal feed system, and the combined gas core reactor are
presented.
Magnetic fuel containment in the Gas Core Nuclear Rocket
KAMMASH, T.; GALBRAITH, D. L. (Michigan Univ., Ann Arbor)
AIAA, SAE, ASME, and ASEE, Joint Propulsion Conference and Exhibit, 29th,
Monterey, CA, June 28-30, 1993. 5 p. Research supported by DOE.
Publication Date: Jun. 1993 9 Refs.
Report No.: AIAA PAPER 93-2368
The open cycle Gas Core Nuclear Rocket (GCR) is often mentioned as a
second generation Nuclear Thermal Propulsion (NTP) system that could make a
round trip manned mission to Mars in a few months instead of a few years.
Such a capability is based on preliminary assessments of its propulsion
performance as reflected in the high specific impulse and thrust it can
potentially generate. The energy in this device is produced by a fissioning
uranium plasma which heats, through radiation, a propellant that flows
around the core and exits through a nozzle, thereby converting thermal
energy into thrust. The relative motion between the propellant and the fuel
is a source of hydrodynamic instability which, if not adequately addressed,
could lead to a serious loss of the fuel in a very short time. This
instability can, however, be suppressed by placing the system in a magnetic
field with a configuration such that it will not interfere with the primary
function of the device. In this paper, we introduce a model with which we
study such magnetic containment and its impact on the performance of the
system.
[Magnetic confinement and mixing inhibition was the concept "Ievlev's"
g.c.r. was based on.]
In-reactor testing of the closed cycle gas core reactor: The Nuclear
Light Bulb concept
GAUNTT, R. O.; SLUTZ, S. A.; HARMS, G. A.; LATHAM, T. S. (United
Technologies Research Center, East Hartford, CT.); ROMAN, W. C. (UTRC);
RODGERS, R. J. (UTRC)
Sandia National Labs., Albuquerque, NM.
Publication Date: Oct. 1992 11P.
Presentation Note: Presented at the 10th Symposium on Space Nuclear Power
and Propulsion, Albuquerque, NM, 10-14 Jan. 1993
Report No.: DE93-004053; SAND-92-1462C; CONF-930103-24
The Nuclear Light Bulb (NLB) concept is an advanced closed cycle space
propulsion rocket engine design that offers unprecidented performance
characteristics in terms of specific impulse (greater than 1800 s) and
thrust (greater than 445 kN). The NLB is a gas-core nuclear reactor making
use of thermal radiation from a high temperature U-plasma core to heat the
hydrogen propellant to very high temperatures (greater than 4000 K).
Analyses performed in support of the design of in-reactor tests that are
planned to be performed in the Annular Core Research Reactor (ACRR) at
Sandia National Laboratories in order to demonstrate the technical
feasibility of this advanced concept are described. The tests will examine
the stability of a hydrodynamically confined fissioning U-plasma under
steady and transient conditions. Testing will also involve study of
propellant heating by thermal radiation from the plasma and materials
performance in the nuclear environment of the NLB. The analyses presented
include neutronic performance studies and U-plasma radiation heat-transport
studies of small vortex-confined fissioning U-plasma experiments that are
irradiated in the ACRE. These analyses indicate that high U-plasma
temperatures (4000 to 9000 K) can be sustained in the ACRE for periods of
time on the order of 5 to 20 s. These testing conditions are well suited to
examine the stability and performance requirements necessary to demonstrate
the feasibility of this concept.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The paper by Glinik piqued my interest, so I did a bit of BIBLIOINT
and came up with the following titles. Making the perhaps unjustified
assumption that there is a common theme underlying these papers and
patents, it looks as Glinik and his associates have worked on the
superconducting solenoid for the confinement system of the g.c.r., and
perhaps also on the "first wall" for the reactor. The items dealing with
superconducting magnet construction, strength, and irradiation effects
might be consistent with either a g.c.r. or a fusion reactor. However,
the 1000 atm. pressure mentioned in the last abstract is a fairly typical
number for the reaction chamber of a g.c.r. but not (I think) for a
magnetically confined fusion system.
Further supporting this interpretation is the presence of V.N.
Khazov as a coauthor: Khazov is one of two authors of the articles on
nuclear rocket engines ["Yadernyy Raketnyy Dvigatel'"] and gas-core
nuclear rocket engines ["Gazofaznyy Ya. R. D."] in the 1985
Entsiklopediya Kosmonavtika which was edited by V.P. Glushko. NPO
Energomash, with which both Glinik and Khazov seem to be associated
currently, is the major rocket engine design and manufacturing facility
which produces, for example, the RD-170/171/180 family and the RD-701
tripropellant engine.
Basic Patent (No,Kind,Date): SU 1056779 A1 901030
METHOD OF RESTORING WORKING CHARACTERISTICS OF SUPERCONDUCTOR-BASE
WINDINGS OPERATING UNDER IRRADIATION CONDITIONS (English)
Author (Inventor): NASKIDASHVILI I A ; MARTKOPLISHVILI G S ;
CHACHANIDZE R V ; STEPANOV G B ; GLINIK R A ; KHAZOV V N
Effect of magnetic field on the plastic deformation on aluminum at 4.2 K
Gostishchev, V. I.; Glinik, R. A.; Petrovskii, M. L.; Khazov, V. N.
Institute of Solid State Physics and Semiconductors, Belorussian Academy
of Sciences
JETP Lett. 30(2),92-96 (20 JUL. 1979)
HIGH FORCE SUPERCONDUCTING CURRENT RAIL - HAS INTERLAYER WITH HARDENING
MATERIAL BETWEEN CONDUCTOR AND YOKE
Author (Inventor): GLINIK R A; GOSTISCHE V I; KHAZOV V N
Electromagnet heavy current coil mfr. - by winding coil with extra pure
aluminium strip with glass fabric insulation between turns, and
impregnated with epoxy.
Author (Inventor): GLINIK R A; KHAZOV V N; ASTASHENKO N N
SU 729664 A 800425 8050 (Basic)
Superconducting rails electric conductivity measuring sample - has
insulated inserts to separate loops of bus formed into zigzag and uses
sum of signals from loops to fix parameters of bus
Author (Inventor): GLINIK R A; GOSTISHCHE V I; KHAZOV V N
SU 628762 A 901030 9123 (Basic)
(INSTALLATION POUR ESSAIS MECANIQUES DE MATERIAUX DANS UN MILIEU DE
HAUTES PRESSIONS FRAGILES)
EN RUSSE
GLINIK R A; DUBROVSKIJ K E; MATVEEV E M; MURAV'EV E V
Journal: ZAVODSK. LAB., 1973, 39 (9) 1136-1137
RESULTATS DE DETERMINATION DE CONTRAINTES LORS DE LA FLEXION
D'ECHANTILLONS DE GRAPHITE SOUS PRESSION JUSQU'A 1000 ATM
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